Bring back the NS2 Large on the default server list

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  • PelargirPelargir Members, Forum Moderators, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Squad Five Silver, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Supporter, Reinforced - Silver, WC 2013 - Silver, Forum staff Join Date: 2013-07-02 Member: 185857Posts: 1,199 mod
    zolja wrote: »
    dePARA wrote: »
    Tinki wrote: »

    Wooza was at least 1/4 of your player base.

    The server is still there, so why is this 1/4 not playing on it?

    I can tell you:
    Cause the real wooza community size is way lower than 1/4 of the playerbase.
    Im sure 80% of the players there are not regular wooza player.
    Or this community is to dumb to find his server, i dont know.

    Maybe they don't want to hang around douchebags? Nice squad 5 badge btw. Way to promote NS2 to other players!

    He got it when he was 'really' contributing. :p
    "All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to us"

    "However beautiful the strategy, you should occasionally look at the results."


  • deathshrouddeathshroud Members Join Date: 2010-04-10 Member: 71291Posts: 1,193 Advanced user
    MoFo1 wrote: »
    Luminar wrote: »
    Wooza's servers arent being displayed by default which has resulted in a complete killing of traffic. This is absolute bull crap. Fix it UWE! You guys have killed a bustling server community that was always full.

    If people wanted to play ns2large nothing is stopping them. If this change really killed all traffic to woozas then that tells me that the majority of people playing there are NOT there for the ns2large gameplay.. They are there because your ns2large server had open slots and the other lower pop servers didn't.

    Which reinforces my belief that most ns2large regulars are simply those people who don't care about balance, ping, performance, or anything else besides joining a game instantly for some brainless casual fragging.. And this community has a lot of people like that. Just look at how often half the players in a server will have 200+ ping.. People join the first server with an open slot, and obviously ns2large servers will have open slots far more often due to the 40 player count.

    play on woozas regularly and i have yet to see a single rookie start moaning about the gameplay or performance or balance of the server when they join. Its only salty vets that moan about the server.

    I have however caused quite a few new players to quit the game on low pop servers due to my "cheating". Im not claiming to be the best player in ns2 because i am not but if im good enough to cause newer players to quit the game on low pop servers due to my 69% fade aim then im sure the better players are doing more harm on these low pop servers than i could ever do. The larger servers at least water down a single players skill.
    AQ-Brainfood
    rebirth
  • dePARAdePARA Members, Squad Five Blue Join Date: 2011-04-29 Member: 96321Posts: 1,351 Advanced user
    @Kouji_San
    Most other game stick with there design descisions.

    Evolve: 4v1
    CS:Go 5v5 official (more only via serverbrowser unranked)
    Titanfall: 6v6
    BF4: Mapsize scales with playerammount. 64 max.
    Starcraft: 8 players per map (not 100% sure about this)
    Dota: 5v5
    TeamFortress: 32 slots max

    So please dont use the term "most other games" while it is not possible to go over official slotammounts there.
    This would be right:
    "Most other games" didnt have a serverbrowser, they are using matchmaking.
    image
  • Kouji_SanKouji_San Sr. Hινε Uρкεερεг - EUPT Deputy The NetherlandsMembers, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue Join Date: 2003-05-13 Member: 16271Posts: 15,782 Advanced user
    Um what... I was talking about mods, as in deviations from the main game... And with the current server browser they are already close to invisible... This seemingly tiny change only added to that issue by hiding all gameplay mods from the first startup...

    The current server browser is lackluster in any case, it is just a list of servers with bad visibility on the filters. You can't honestly disagree with what I'm suggesting in making the server browser being more clear as to where the filters are and which mods the servers are running. I mean all that does it make it more usable and more professional/polished looking...

    Guardian of the "magic cookiejar" 

    Retired forum Admin, I mostly used a flamethrower tank for disputes... Mostly

    Retired EUPT Deputy | Moral Support | Squad 5 Blue | 102 1HP Skulk escapes and counting

    ImmortalKing
  • deathshrouddeathshroud Members Join Date: 2010-04-10 Member: 71291Posts: 1,193 Advanced user
    edited April 2016
    Tinki wrote: »
    Big maps where already played on the server. And summit wasn't very popular.
    ns2_uplift, ns2_orbital, ns2_nothing, ns2_outerrimark, ns2_yana and of course ns2_Veil_FIVE. (i forgot the biggest of all, ns2_spaceship)

    As for the balance I might be wrong but i think it was a deliberate choice to not change anything (like other large server tried too and failed at it). People knew it wasn't balance, but you can argue that stacks had also a lesser impact.

    the server had something like 51% marine wins which is quite close to balanced and maps like derelict which are normally considered poorly balanced maps in smaller servers had a 50 50 balance on woozas with 100 games so the game was balanced it was just balanced differently/ The worst balanced maps were veil and eclipse, eclipse suffering something like a 65% alien win ratio over 350 games or osmethnig
    AQ-Brainfood
  • develdevel Members Join Date: 2014-09-13 Member: 198444Posts: 352 Advanced user
    SupaFred wrote: »
    However, the way it was implemented effectively killed wooza's servers.

    They are fine.

    And that change also has hidden NS2+ (at least for me). But the big fuss is only about ns2large.
    _INTER_
  • MoFo1MoFo1 United StatesMembers Join Date: 2014-07-25 Member: 197612Posts: 729 Advanced user
    play on woozas regularly and i have yet to see a single rookie start moaning about the gameplay or performance or balance of the server when they join. Its only salty vets that moan about the server.

    No I'd imagine most rookies wouldn't bother to say anything, why would they? Furthermore how would they even know that it's the server performing badly and not the entire game? And why would they bother complaining in-game to people who obviously enjoy it? When I tried the BO3 free weekend I didn't spend all my time in-game complaining about how bad the maps were, how long it took to get into a game, etc..

    It also makes perfect sense to me that the "salty vets" are the only ones who have experience playing on various servers to know the difference between good and terrible performance.

    SupaFred wrote: »
    However, the way it was implemented effectively killed wooza's servers.

    Actually it seems to me like Wooza killed his own server. None of the NS2+ servers were "killed" yet this change hit them in basically the exact same way. I had to click a tab to see them (exactly like NS2large players have to do) and they are all still populated.

    I mean seriously.. you guys can't base your entire complaint around your regulars being too stupid to click NS2large.
    Vetinaricoolitic
  • G_LockG_Lock Playtester_ FLMembers, NS2 Playtester, Reinforced - Supporter, Reinforced - Silver, Reinforced - Shadow Join Date: 2013-04-03 Member: 184624Posts: 123 Advanced user
    ns2servers.devicenull.org/servers/1736539/85.7.123.134:27016/?date=04/13/16

    Those charts had a drop for one day because some not so bright individuals didn't know they can push a button to filter servers. Your #'s have already begun to return to normal. Stop being a little bitch just because your server isn't by default vacuuming up players anymore from being on top of the player #'s sorting.

    Fucking soap opera..

    _INTER_IronHorsecoolitic
  • SamG2020SamG2020 Bristol UK | Vancouver CanadaMembers Join Date: 2015-11-24 Member: 209449Posts: 15 Advanced user
    Players do seem to be re-discovering ns2large. I suspect there was just initial post-patch confusion. Similarly, when the update came out, NS2+ was included in the default view but not if you clicked back to the NS2 tab again. It now seems to always include NS2+ even when you click back, so presumably they made a small tweak to the server browser since launching the update.
  • deathshrouddeathshroud Members Join Date: 2010-04-10 Member: 71291Posts: 1,193 Advanced user
    edited April 2016
    Next all servers running custom maps will be pulled from the list because they arent running ns2 the way it was intended to be played and lets be honest custom maps have more of an effect on game balance than the server population.

    Might as well keep looking for ways to finally kill off your own game. Because when they realize this "fix" they made wont result in better player retention they will find something else to blame.
    AQ-Brainfood
  • RevanCoranaRevanCorana Members Join Date: 2015-08-14 Member: 207125Posts: 571 Advanced user
    edited April 2016
    G_Lock wrote: »
    ns2servers.devicenull.org/servers/1736539/85.7.123.134:27016/?date=04/13/16

    Those charts had a drop for one day because some not so bright individuals didn't know they can push a button to filter servers. Your #'s have already begun to return to normal. Stop being a little **** just because your server isn't by default vacuuming up players anymore from being on top of the player #'s sorting.

    **** soap opera..

    This slope is not legit, the server was down for a few hours.
    Right now, both servers are near full.
    bd7rhx31mv6y.jpgi3w11ixbtrzg.jpg
    ImmortalKingbonapartist
  • BicsumBicsum Members, Reinforced - Gold Join Date: 2012-02-27 Member: 147596Posts: 1,014 Advanced user
    Next all servers running custom maps will be pulled from the list because they arent running ns2 the way it was intended to be played and lets be honest custom maps have more of an effect on game balance than the server population.

    Might as well keep looking for ways to finally kill off your own game. Because when they realize this "fix" they made wont result in better player retention they will find something else to blame.

    Dude, stop bullshitting, I'm not happy with mods being affected by this either, but >24 slot servers are something completely different and you know it!
    develcoolitic
  • MendaspMendasp I touch maps in inappropriate places Valencia, SpainMembers, NS1 Playtester, Contributor, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Gold, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow, Retired Community Developer Join Date: 2002-07-05 Member: 884Posts: 4,177 Advanced user
    SamG2020 wrote: »
    Players do seem to be re-discovering ns2large. I suspect there was just initial post-patch confusion. Similarly, when the update came out, NS2+ was included in the default view but not if you clicked back to the NS2 tab again. It now seems to always include NS2+ even when you click back, so presumably they made a small tweak to the server browser since launching the update.

    There was no change in vanilla, I had to update NS2+ so it worked that way.
    SamG2020
  • SamG2020SamG2020 Bristol UK | Vancouver CanadaMembers Join Date: 2015-11-24 Member: 209449Posts: 15 Advanced user
    Mendasp wrote: »
    SamG2020 wrote: »
    Players do seem to be re-discovering ns2large. I suspect there was just initial post-patch confusion. Similarly, when the update came out, NS2+ was included in the default view but not if you clicked back to the NS2 tab again. It now seems to always include NS2+ even when you click back, so presumably they made a small tweak to the server browser since launching the update.

    There was no change in vanilla, I had to update NS2+ so it worked that way.

    Ah! Thanks for that. It's a lot cleaner now.
    bonapartist
  • dePARAdePARA Members, Squad Five Blue Join Date: 2011-04-29 Member: 96321Posts: 1,351 Advanced user
    Bicsum wrote: »
    Next all servers running custom maps will be pulled from the list because they arent running ns2 the way it was intended to be played and lets be honest custom maps have more of an effect on game balance than the server population.

    Might as well keep looking for ways to finally kill off your own game. Because when they realize this "fix" they made wont result in better player retention they will find something else to blame.

    Dude, stop bullshitting, I'm not happy with mods being affected by this either, but >24 slot servers are something completely different and you know it!

    Hey, he played on a 50 slot server that time.
    A 42 slot server is totally different.
    image
    Kouji_SanBicsumcoolitic
  • Kouji_SanKouji_San Sr. Hινε Uρкεερεг - EUPT Deputy The NetherlandsMembers, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue Join Date: 2003-05-13 Member: 16271Posts: 15,782 Advanced user
    dePARA wrote: »
    Bicsum wrote: »
    Next all servers running custom maps will be pulled from the list because they arent running ns2 the way it was intended to be played and lets be honest custom maps have more of an effect on game balance than the server population.

    Might as well keep looking for ways to finally kill off your own game. Because when they realize this "fix" they made wont result in better player retention they will find something else to blame.

    Dude, stop bullshitting, I'm not happy with mods being affected by this either, but >24 slot servers are something completely different and you know it!

    Hey, he played on a 50 slot server that time.
    A 42 slot server is totally different.

    Hahaha dammit you git :D

    Guardian of the "magic cookiejar" 

    Retired forum Admin, I mostly used a flamethrower tank for disputes... Mostly

    Retired EUPT Deputy | Moral Support | Squad 5 Blue | 102 1HP Skulk escapes and counting

    bonapartist
  • Vman007Vman007 New YorkMembers Join Date: 2014-01-22 Member: 193411Posts: 25 Advanced user
    edited April 2016
    I don't like this. You could have made a disclaimer to keep the rookies out. But to hide it from them completly is wrong. I personally have not had any performance issues on the server but i can see how some people could have performance issues. But those can all be highlighted in a disclaimer. Wooza servers have such a rich community which some rookies might want to share. 6v6 12v12 21v21 all have different playstyles and all of which are fun. I personally have had some of the best expierence on the large servers. Not to say the smaller ones are lesser but a good game with a large group of people is fun. Wooza servers really don't get many rookies anyways. And if they did i would bet they would have enjoyed their expierence. Also this is kind of scary because it kind of sets up a precedent in the future where they might just get rid of ns2large in its entirety. That would lose you a lot of players judging from how many people play on wooza servers alone.
    AliteImmortalKingbonapartist
  • IeptBarakatIeptBarakat The most difficult name to speak ingame. Members, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Diamond, Reinforced - Shadow Join Date: 2009-07-10 Member: 68107Posts: 2,679 Advanced user
    IronHorse wrote: »
    wooza wrote: »
    The server performance just reflects the work of UWE.
    "I broke the toy you gave me by throwing it into a grinder - that's your fault though, you should have made it better."

    More like "We upgraded your scooter from the old model, it can only go 24 mph now and if you go over it everything will start to fall apart. What do you mean your old one did 32 just fine, it's a design decision."
    Aliteiamaria
  • DilligafDilligaf Members Join Date: 2014-05-25 Member: 196238Posts: 55 Advanced user
    Put a disclaimer but dont make it hard to find for new players. As a rookie knowing NS2 had large servers blew my mind and made me cry tears of joy.
    I understand they need to know for which player size the game is developed so they wont complain to devs for balance.
    But the large servers is a great place for rookies to learn the game from veterans by seeing them play and its easier to explain multiple rookies how to play.
    And for performance i have no problems i only had problems when i had a potato as pc or it was a tomato not sure anymore..
    ImmortalKingbonapartist
  • dePARAdePARA Members, Squad Five Blue Join Date: 2011-04-29 Member: 96321Posts: 1,351 Advanced user
    edited April 2016
    @IeptBarakat
    What a stupid analogy.

    Servers with that size cant exist without a exe hack. So who cares if they not running well aslong supported slotsizes do.
    So breaking the limits and then complaining is kinda stupid.
    image
    Vman007IronHorseiamariaKasharic
  • IeptBarakatIeptBarakat The most difficult name to speak ingame. Members, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Diamond, Reinforced - Shadow Join Date: 2009-07-10 Member: 68107Posts: 2,679 Advanced user
    edited April 2016
    dePARA wrote: »
    But the old 32 one wasnt made for 42 also.
    Find the error.

    Your reading comprehension? Ah, I caught you before your edit. I was talking purely from an NS1 to NS2 situation and I didn't even mention anything about Wooza's in it so I don't see why you're so upset.

    The fact of the matter is a lot of people who purchased NS2 bought it under the idea there were games of at least 32 players in it as they were able to do so in the past, not to mention 24 is relatively small for public servers as many pc shooters have supported 32 and above for quite some time. The problem of course is the game engine which has been the cause of many issues in the past also has issue with maintaining a high number of entities, of course instead of trying to do anything about it UWE seems fit to just limit the playercount and leave it as it is. So of course when people still wish to have their preferred playercount regardless of it being above the maximum limit, they aren't getting any support from the devs and are treated as the black sheep of the server community. This gives rise to some people who continue to use these server groups as a scapegoat for any of the game's problems and fuel their biased opinions.

    So @dePARA if the devs do remove the hard limit on playercount like their trello mentioned which removes the need to hack a .exe, it's suddenly A-OK to complain about the engine again right?

    What about the hypothetical situation where 25+ slot servers become more common than low pop after removing the need to hack an .exe to obtain that amount? Will you start blaming those servers as well for being the downfall of NS2? I won't put words in your mouth, but after seeing you complain for 2+ years about Wooza's and acting on the 'moral highground' because an update finally went your way to go against high playercount servers, I don't think you would be happy even if Wooza's or any other high playercount server was officially supported or not.
    Post edited by IeptBarakat on
    AliteImmortalKingPuphBall
  • dePARAdePARA Members, Squad Five Blue Join Date: 2011-04-29 Member: 96321Posts: 1,351 Advanced user
    edited April 2016
    Removing the hardlimit would be indeed really dumb, cause we would see some of the admins without any clue would fire up 64 slot servers on there toasters.
    This would catapult NS2 back to beta performance on these servers.
    What a great idea in times where the Devs try to work on player retention.

    Oh, there shooters out there with up to 32 players? wow.
    I can name you countless shooters with a less playercount.

    And about "the fact" that a lot of people who purchased NS2 bought it under the idea there were games of at least 32 players.
    On the shoppage you can find this:
    "NS2 is a genius mash of Counter Strike and Starcraft"
    – Kotaku
    Hmm, CS:Go=5v5, Starcraft: 4v4? (dont know, i dont play starcraft)

    And a small tip:
    The server is still up and full, so whats your problem here.
    Looks like some people found the little button finally after 1 day.

    I have no problems with large servers in general, if the game is designed for it (Battlefield, Planetside).
    But i have problems with large server cause they destroy everything NS2 stands for:
    A high skill based game with deep strategic elements.
    I heard that a lot of people who purchased NS2 bought it under the idea to play exact that.
    "a genius mash of Counter Strike and Starcraft""
    image
    bonapartist
  • WakeWake Members, Constellation Join Date: 2003-03-05 Member: 14351Posts: 723 Advanced user
    dePARA wrote: »
    But i have problems with large server cause they destroy everything NS2 stands for:
    A high skill based game with deep strategic elements.
    I heard that a lot of people who purchased NS2 bought it under the idea to play exact that.

    Where are the "lot" of people you "heard" about right now ? I don't see any "lot" of people on my browser. I would be glad to see a "lot" of people.
    Freak out
    IeptBarakatAliteImmortalKingDrNo
  • migalskimigalski BostonMembers, Reinforced - Shadow Join Date: 2014-07-02 Member: 197181Posts: 111 Advanced user
    Instead of changing how the tags work for servers, why don't we instead update the ancient server browser? Make it so instead when you click Server Browser a new screen pops up and gives you an option of Regular Ns2, Ns2 Large (with a disclaimer when first pressed), Competitive etc. From there it bring up a list of the servers and making it so Wooza's not being under the Ns2 filter isn't actually affecting the player count of individuals who actually don't know how to use a server browser.

    Or rather if not update it then just add the screen with the tags and depending on what you choose it automatically brings you to the browser with the tags enabled.
    SamG2020ImmortalKingiamariabonapartist
  • ImmortalKingImmortalKing GermanyMembers Join Date: 2014-01-14 Member: 193131Posts: 10 Fully active user
    edited April 2016
    Bicsum wrote: »
    wooza wrote: »
    BeigeAlert wrote: »
    It seems to be a protection for new players that sort servers by player count and pick the first one in the list.
    That way they don't have a 64 ticks, huge fps drop, poor hitreg and retarded balance as their first experience.
    Those who really like to play on Wooza server will know how to find their way back.

    This. A million times this.

    Guys, we will never ever make any changes to this game solely to ruin a community. We don't "have it in" for anybody, we're not picking on the little guys here.
    Every single change we have made to the game since November has been with the express purpose of improving the new player experience. That's it.
    We're not shutting down Woozas, or any other server. We're not going out of our way to make it especially difficult to increase the player count. All we've done is change the default filter to the regular sized ns2 servers. This is done so that new players actually get to experience NS2 as it was intended.
    Maybe you like the large servers. Good for you. But that is not how NS2 was intended to be played. It's not what the game was balanced for, it's not in any way indicative of how the game was meant to perform, and because of all this it CERTAINLY cannot be the first thing a new player experiences.

    You ruined a community with a little change, now stay to what you have done.

    You are hidding us from the server browser and trying to make people believe that new players got lost in modded servers, how silly is that. Can you provide any proof about rookies leaving the game so quick because they land on a Faded, Last Stand or Siege server?

    Second: You hide Favorite Servers from the default view in the server browser (When they run another game mode). People believe that my servers are offline since the day you introduce. It is a drastic design error you have done and again, by purpose to shut down or community, slowly but precisely.

    "We're not shutting down Woozas". Of course not. This would be too obvious. You do it slowly so we can't do anything against.
    MoFo1 wrote: »
    If people wanted to play ns2large nothing is stopping them. If this change really killed all traffic to woozas then that tells me that the majority of people playing there are NOT there for the ns2large gameplay.. They are there because your ns2large server had open slots and the other lower pop servers didn't.

    Maybe people found out now that the server also had a lot of people you randomly joined a server. They did not cared about size, community or mod, they were looking for a slot. Now you keep hiding the server for those people.

    The result of day one: http://ns2servers.devicenull.org/servers/1736539/85.7.123.134:27016/?date=04/13/16 . Now I would like to hear an argument that support the view of the other side. You reached what you intend to do: Not killing my community directly but slowly, over time.

    If it contine like this we will shut down the server and bring everyone to write a negative Steam Review and tell the world what had been going on. The only way UWE can't edit or delete our posts.

    THE ONLY design error was the hackable server binaries. This shouldn't even have been possible in the first place and when the possibilty was discovered, UWE should have intervened and fixed this immediately!

    >24 slots should never have established. You knew that UWE never supported >24 slots, and that for good reasons (performance / balance), but now that they actually somewhat (not really, they're still being merciful) compliance with their own policy, which you knew of, you want to blackmail them?

    I mean, I already expected this would happen, but not from you, but someone from your community..


    if it wasnt for woozas servers i wouldnt have played ns2 anymore!
    i wouldnt recommend this great game anymore! i have supported UWE
    --->>which im not doing until its reworked and there are great ideas out there...
    Pelargir wrote: »
    [...] You could even have done something à la NS2+, highlighting in different colors modded and large servers in addition to this pop up[/b] to make sure people don't get confused. I mean, really, you see this server in orange, you try to join it and you find this little pop up on your screen, I think that's clear enough, isn't it?
    i wouldnt have met such a big nice community anymore and i can just say THANK GOD that there are servers with more slots than the vanilla!
    i BARELY ever get those so called fps drops/performance problems or any bugs also the balance is absolutely great!
    those who speak against it might have an outdated computer but wtf...? games nowadays demand a stronger computer and compared to that... woozas server is a smooth fluid paradise to play on! also there are statistics about the balancing on woozas large servers and it shows very well that it is very well balanced even for maps which werent made for such large servers but of course there will be maps such as refinery where you can arc from transit at the hive :wink:
    it requires a different thinking/tactics on large servers compared to smaller ones where you can make use out of avaible options inside the game which arent commonly used in smaller servers

    i got to say i agree that new players should try the vanilla game at first though
    but hiding woozas servers in such way...??? thats like putting the server into a quarantine but who looks for a quarantine? only those who were involved with the server? well thats how it seems...
    anyway... new players will find their way to play the vanilla with the ideas which were mentioned and will play it IF thats what they really want after some matches of ns2 vanilla

    once that is changed everybody can play more or less happily their ns2 life in peace or somewhat in peace
    AND THEN i could see your eternal gratitude again especially towards people like wooza who helps keeping the ns2 community (stay alive+longer) in the most incredible ways...
    who wouldnt feel offended after putting so much effort in and then being hidden behind the moon???
    please dont natural select the community... even if you say your intention isnt to natural select it its still a fact that its being affected... there are better ways to solve this and if do you will achieve what you wanted without all this drama... :blush:
    deathshroudbonapartist
  • deathshrouddeathshroud Members Join Date: 2010-04-10 Member: 71291Posts: 1,193 Advanced user
    dePARA wrote: »
    Bicsum wrote: »
    Next all servers running custom maps will be pulled from the list because they arent running ns2 the way it was intended to be played and lets be honest custom maps have more of an effect on game balance than the server population.

    Might as well keep looking for ways to finally kill off your own game. Because when they realize this "fix" they made wont result in better player retention they will find something else to blame.

    Dude, stop bullshitting, I'm not happy with mods being affected by this either, but >24 slot servers are something completely different and you know it!

    Hey, he played on a 50 slot server that time.
    A 42 slot server is totally different.

    That was my initial opinion when i was a salty vet like most of you, also the game is playable with less than 50 and at that time preformance on large servers was far worse. My opinions of large servers changed when i stopped moaning about having to change my play style and when the patches finally made large servers run at an acceptable rate.

    Digging up a post from 3 years ago that has 0 relevance to today is a low blow.
    AQ-Brainfood
    ImmortalKingAlitebonapartist
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