Bring back the NS2 Large on the default server list

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Comments

  • dePARAdePARA Members, Squad Five Blue Join Date: 2011-04-29 Member: 96321Posts: 1,351 Advanced user
    edited April 2016

    That was my initial opinion when i was a salty vet like most of you, also the game is playable with less than 50 and at that time preformance on large servers was far worse. My opinions of large servers changed when i stopped moaning about having to change my play style and when the patches finally made large servers run at an acceptable rate.

    Digging up a post from 3 years ago that has 0 relevance to today is a low blow.

    Most of your post wasnt about performance. You discribed the reason wich leads to the current change.
    "New alien players who have problems to deal with 2 marines, have to fight against 6. In every room"
    What a great 1st experience.
    i played on the 50 man server, horrible server tick rate, lag spikes and with so many people on each team so easy to drop a hive in seconds the hitpoints of structures simply arent designed to have so many people potentially shooting at them

    also many evolved lifeform deaths, you go round a corner as a fade and see 10 marines in a tight corridor they will drop you in seconds before you even have time to react

    And to say this has 0 relevance is a bit ignorant, cause thats exact the point.
    Comparing Custom-maps with this on the other hand is indeed kinda bullshit.
    Did you say you "was" salty? Hmm
    Wake wrote: »
    Where are the "lot" of people you "heard" about right now ? I don't see any "lot" of people on my browser. I would be glad to see a "lot" of people.

    Im sure countless players quit the game in the past after opening the serverbrowser and saw only 24 slot and greater (timedependent).
    There many threads about exact that.
    image
  • deathshrouddeathshroud Members Join Date: 2010-04-10 Member: 71291Posts: 1,193 Advanced user
    edited April 2016
    dePARA wrote: »

    That was my initial opinion when i was a salty vet like most of you, also the game is playable with less than 50 and at that time preformance on large servers was far worse. My opinions of large servers changed when i stopped moaning about having to change my play style and when the patches finally made large servers run at an acceptable rate.

    Digging up a post from 3 years ago that has 0 relevance to today is a low blow.

    Most of your post wasnt about performance. You discribed the reason wich leads to the current change.
    "New alien players who have problems to deal with 2 marines, have to fight against 6. In every room"
    What a great 1st experience.
    i played on the 50 man server, horrible server tick rate, lag spikes and with so many people on each team so easy to drop a hive in seconds the hitpoints of structures simply arent designed to have so many people potentially shooting at them

    also many evolved lifeform deaths, you go round a corner as a fade and see 10 marines in a tight corridor they will drop you in seconds before you even have time to react

    And to say this has 0 relevance is a bit ignorant, cause thats exact the point.
    Comparing Custom-maps with this on the other hand is indeed kinda bullshit.
    Did you say you "was" salty? Hmm
    Wake wrote: »
    Where are the "lot" of people you "heard" about right now ? I don't see any "lot" of people on my browser. I would be glad to see a "lot" of people.

    Im sure countless players quit the game in the past after opening the serverbrowser and saw only 24 slot and greater (timedependent).
    There many threads about exact that.

    And after 3 years im not allowed to change my opinion?

    I told you i changed it based on my experiences. Yet you fail to comprehend that fact. Whilst its true that you may end up in a situation were there are 8 people shooting at you. You will also end up in a situation were there is you and 7 other people chasing after just a few people In those situations it doesnt really matter that you are new or that you cant aim because your friends got your back.

    However go to a small 8 vs 8 server and often you will find yourself face to face with a player that has 800+ hours invested in ns2 who will take you down over and over again without breaking a sweat. A situation like that and new players have 0 chance to be effective in anyway at all. Their short comings become immediately apparent and it places an extremely heavy weight on their shoulders because in an 8 vs 8 or a 10 vs 10, 1 player who doesnt have a clue what hes doing can make or break a game. In a 42 man server provided it isnt the com, you could have 5 or 6 players who arent sure what they are doing on one team and it wont affect the overall outcome anywhere near as severely.

    on the day of this patch, late at night i joined 2 seperate small pop servers and 2 newish players 1 over chat and the other using vocie coms both said they were done with ns2. 1 of them called me a cheater and attacked me directly. Im not even 1 of the best players and yet can cause new players to quit the game on small size servers. That has never happened on a large server.

    large servers favor new players. Its just a shame that ns2's engine isnt as great as it should be with larger servers. Maybe they should try improving this instead of removing large servers or trying to kill them off.

    ALso clalng me salty? i mean i was perfectly happy before the patch. would play on large servers and i would play on small servers. But now uwe is directly and intentionally attacking an aspect of ns2 that i enjoy based entirely on speculation.
    AQ-Brainfood
    ImmortalKing
  • dePARAdePARA Members, Squad Five Blue Join Date: 2011-04-29 Member: 96321Posts: 1,351 Advanced user
    So by your logic there are no players with over 800hrs on wooza.
    What have you done the last 3 years?
    image
    Kasharic
  • PelargirPelargir Members, Forum Moderators, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Squad Five Silver, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Supporter, Reinforced - Silver, WC 2013 - Silver, Forum staff Join Date: 2013-07-02 Member: 185857Posts: 1,199 mod
    dePARA wrote: »
    Im sure countless players quit the game in the past after opening the serverbrowser and saw only 24 slot and greater (timedependent).
    There many threads about exact that.

    Because usually new players go to the forums to complain about such things? I know I wouldn't.

    "All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to us"

    "However beautiful the strategy, you should occasionally look at the results."


    ImmortalKing
  • MoFo1MoFo1 United StatesMembers Join Date: 2014-07-25 Member: 197612Posts: 729 Advanced user
    I find it amusing when someone says they never have performance issues on NS2large servers... Obviously they don't know what good performance looks like.

    You'll often have more entities in one room on woozas than you would on an entire normal server. FPS is often half what it should be, and around the corner deaths are way more common.

    I also don't understand the "it's easier on rookies" mentality. They're basically saying it's easier for rookies to round a corner and run into 8-10 enemies instead of 1-2

    The few times I've played on NS2large servers I was dumbfounded as to how anyone could think it's enjoyable. (or even playable) It's like when CoD went P2P and you had people saying it was just as smooth and lag free as the old dedi system when it very clearly wasn't.
  • WakeWake Members, Constellation Join Date: 2003-03-05 Member: 14351Posts: 723 Advanced user
    There is no productive discussion here.
    @dePARA I talk about actual population, you talk about ghosts from the past.

    As you said, you have a problem with large servers and all your rethoric strategy is oriented to bury and drawn the dicussion into details dispute and ad hominem arguments.

    Freak out
    AliteDrNo
  • SupaDupaNoodleSupaDupaNoodle Members Join Date: 2003-01-12 Member: 12232Posts: 495 Advanced user
    edited April 2016
    dePARA wrote: »
    Im sure countless players quit the game in the past after opening the serverbrowser and saw only 24 slot and greater (timedependent).

    Absolute nonsense.
    SupaDupaNoodle
    I'm a signature virus :D Copy me into your signature!
    (Ribo @ Jan 2 2013, 10:43 AM) wrote »
     ##EMPHASIS ADDED##
    Ok, here is the problem. Every game, the aliens,in a pack, harass the marines to slowdown resource captures. The aliens save up for invisible, double armor rhinos. Everyone evolves into an invisible double armor rhino. The marines lose.


    Also, a good rule of thumb is that a rookie is equivalent to an empty player slot on a team.

    AliteDrNo
  • BicsumBicsum Members, Reinforced - Gold Join Date: 2012-02-27 Member: 147596Posts: 1,014 Advanced user
    edited April 2016
    Rookies may learn the game on any slot count. On 16 slot servers rookies learn how to play 8vs8; on a 40 slot server rookies learn how to play 20vs20.

    In an 8vs8 you will learn to ambush, because you will notice that running straight into a marine doesn't work
    In an 8vs8 you will learn to check your corners, because you're constantly getting ambushed
    In an 8vs8 you will learn to cover your team mates, because you will notice it is easier to kill aliens that are attacking your team mate
    In an 8vs8 you will learn to check your map and lane block, because you can see that the way from their hive to your base is open and/or you have aliens in your base
    In an 8vs8 you will learn the importance of parasites after getting trapped and ambushed by marines

    In a 20vs20 you will learn where to build a fast phase gate
    In a 20vs20 you will learn where the usual armory spots are on the map
    In a 20vs20 you will learn that flame throwers and grenade launchers are viable pvp weapons
    In a 20vs20 you will learn to stick around sentries in order to defend a room

    A Rookie who played 100 matches 8vs8 will always be superior to the rookie who played 100 matches 20vs20, no matter the slot count they're facing each other (given they have equal pc speccs).

    The best way for a rookie to learn is a 12 - 18 slot server filled with veterans (1 rookie for each team).

    If we're talking about basics: there is a tutotial, sandbox mode and drill servers.

    Wake wrote: »
    What is your problem with facts ?

    What about the fact that 8vs8 is the most liked, yet the least played slot count?
    What about the fact that performance gets worse the more players you have?
    What about the fact that players are taught to be bad, and will never make the step to lower slot counts OR competitive, because they think they just suck at this game?

    Your fact is that >24 slot regulars are having fun, which is absolutely not fucking relevant.
    Post edited by Bicsum on
    coolitic
  • develdevel Members Join Date: 2014-09-13 Member: 198444Posts: 352 Advanced user
    edited April 2016
    Schnirke wrote: »
    On the other hand there are only-rookie servers. But I can imagine that these servers are pretty boring, as nobody will use the voice chat and everyone is playing for himself (like people know from pub servers of other fps games like cs, cod, where everybody plays for himself).

    Rookie servers are not boring. They use voice chat very often.

    The metagame on rookie servers involves a lot of bases, turrets/whips, macs end exos.

    Meta on ns2large is a frontal push.
    Post edited by devel on
  • woozawooza SwitzerlandMembers, Squad Five Blue Join Date: 2013-11-21 Member: 189496Posts: 171 Fully active user
    IronHorse wrote: »
    wooza wrote: »
    The server performance just reflects the work of UWE.
    "I broke the toy you gave me by throwing it into a grinder - that's your fault though, you should have made it better."

    @IronHorse You making yourself very silly. That means you are okay that a 18p server needs a CPU with 4.5GHz to deliver a "good performance" ? And this in the Year 2016?

    Build 279 had changed a lot with the netcode. Many popular community servers (I wont call now any name) can't hold the load. Some admins are aware, some not.

    I even bought a faster CPU to counter the increasded load produced by b279. If it helps we will see as I am still overclocking the beast.
    ImmortalKing
  • woozawooza SwitzerlandMembers, Squad Five Blue Join Date: 2013-11-21 Member: 189496Posts: 171 Fully active user
    Not even the devs knows the hardware specification about an official NS2 should have. Yet they just adding stuff into the game that no one requests. Best one is the broken netcode which has absolutly not been tested properly.
    2cough
  • woozawooza SwitzerlandMembers, Squad Five Blue Join Date: 2013-11-21 Member: 189496Posts: 171 Fully active user
    @dePARA @Bicsum @devel @MoFo1 @IronHorse

    You are the best example of a toxic community. Keep on going, your hate is boosting my servers.
    AliteImmortalKing
  • develdevel Members Join Date: 2014-09-13 Member: 198444Posts: 352 Advanced user
    edited April 2016
    wooza wrote: »
    @dePARA @Bicsum @devel @MoFo1 @IronHorse

    You are the best example of a toxic community. Keep on going, your hate is boosting my servers.

    @wooza, personally, I'm comparing the ns2large with a Dota2 10v10 servers.

    My arguments are derived from the differences between Dota2 and NS2. And I don't have solutions for all the points.
    Dilligafcoolitic
  • woozawooza SwitzerlandMembers, Squad Five Blue Join Date: 2013-11-21 Member: 189496Posts: 171 Fully active user
    There is a difference between blind hate and people that do not like the server.

    I don't have the energy and time to correct all of your statements.

    It just seems those people are stuck in year 2013 and bring the same arguments over and over.

    At least the number of those people have been drastically reduced.
  • WakeWake Members, Constellation Join Date: 2003-03-05 Member: 14351Posts: 723 Advanced user
    Bicsum wrote: »
    Your fact is that >24 slot regulars are having fun, which is absolutely not **** relevant.

    ?? You mean that an average population of 70 over 250 having fun playing NS2 is not relevant ?
    Relevant to what ? Why do you quote me completely out of context ?

    I say : There are regular seasoned players on WoOza who are a real delight to play with. They play smart, they try to gather teams, they enjoy the game, yes, they have fun even when they lose.

    That's it. Now keep on fighting if you want it that way.
    I enjoy playing from say 8v8 to 20v20 (6v6 is too demanding for me) and I'm just testifying what I've witnessed on WOoZa's
    Freak out
    jrgnAliteImmortalKing
  • BicsumBicsum Members, Reinforced - Gold Join Date: 2012-02-27 Member: 147596Posts: 1,014 Advanced user
    edited April 2016
    Rautapalli wrote: »
    Bicsum wrote: »
    What about the fact that 8vs8 is the most liked, yet the least played slot count?
    Not a fact unless you have statistics to prove otherwise.

    Open your server browser and count the seeded 16 slot servers.

    Why do >24 slot servers, being liked with 38.9 %, equal in ~70 filled slots every evening, but 16 slot servers, being liked with 44.7 % not equal in 80 slots filled ervery evening?

    There should be 5!!! 16 slot servers every evening, but I barely find even ONE.
    Rautapalli wrote: »
    Bicsum wrote: »
    What about the fact that performance gets worse the more players you have?
    True, what does this have to do with anything though? If performance was so important to most players they wouldn't be playing NS2 in the first place, they'd be playing CS:GO or something. I'm still getting 100+ FPS most of the time on wooza.

    With that logic most people would be playing Tetris.

    Yes, YOU are getting 100+ FPS "most of the time", but you are not most people. The less players the more people could enjoy this game.
    Rautapalli wrote: »
    Bicsum wrote: »
    Your fact is that >24 slot regulars are having fun, which is absolutely not **** relevant.
    How is having fun not relevant when we're talking about a video game? You people are ridiculous.

    Don't you think it's kind of biased to ask a >24 slot regular whether or not they're having fun?
    Post edited by Bicsum on
  • RautapalliRautapalli Members, Reinforced - Shadow Join Date: 2010-07-23 Member: 72710Posts: 151 Advanced user
    edited April 2016
    Bicsum wrote: »
    Open your server browser and count the seeded 16 slot servers.

    Why do >24 slot servers, being liked with 38.9 %, equal in ~70 filled slots every evening, but 16 slot servers, being liked with 44.7 % not equal in 80 slots filled ervery evening?

    There should be 5!!! 16 slot servers every evening, but I barely find even ONE.
    Dunno where you got your percentages from, if it's something someone polled on this forum then it's kinda meaningless in this context, only a small subset of the people that play NS2 actually visit these forums, which reflects to what you're seeing, there's not many pub players playing on 16 slot servers, just like many pub players have probably never even visited this forum.
    Bicsum wrote: »
    With that logic most people would be playing Tetris.

    Yes, YOU are getting 100+ FPS "most of the time", but you are not most people. The less players the more people could enjoy this game.
    Yeah, the same logic people are using here as a reason for why wooza's server should not show up by default. Performance usually is not the main reason why someone chooses a game/server over another, and for some people it might be, it's completely subjective. If I'm getting 100+ fps on > 3 year old PC then the performance on NS2Large servers should be more than adequate for the type of game that's played on those servers anyway. Besides, the game already warned new players when joining NS2Large servers, which imo. was the correct way of doing it.
    Bicsum wrote: »
    Don't you think it's kind of biased to ask a >24 slot regular whether or not their having fun?
    Not any more biased than competitive players and players that prefer small servers wanting NS2Large servers hidden.
    Alite
  • MoFo1MoFo1 United StatesMembers Join Date: 2014-07-25 Member: 197612Posts: 729 Advanced user
    Wake wrote: »
    And @MoFo1 is using the same strategy as DePARA (nice teamwork into dragging this down guys).

    What is your problem with facts ?

    What's yours? (referring to the entire NS2large community)

    Why is it that other mods were hit with the same change in the same way yet it's only the NS2large servers that have had a problem... (nobody will answer this)

    I'll give you the only answer I've been able to come up with. It's because you're all upset about not having a constant stream of new unsuspecting players joining. Your favored server doesn't sit at the top of the browser by default anymore and you're all throwing tantrums as if NS2large has been shut down entirely.

    We've been arguing about the performance, balance, and enjoyability of those servers, but in reality that's all pointless. You guys want to keep your dumbed down horribly performing game mode and that's fine. It just needs to be "unranked" for lack of a better term.. (ie not visible by default along with the other mods and not whitelisted)

    My whole gripe stems from the utter ridiculousness of the complaints being made by NS2large players. Their precious server is one click away yet they're acting like it's hidden under like five sub menus that you have to search through the options menu to unlock.

    Then they wonder why people are treating them like they're stupid...

  • RautapalliRautapalli Members, Reinforced - Shadow Join Date: 2010-07-23 Member: 72710Posts: 151 Advanced user
    edited April 2016
    MoFo1 wrote: »
    Wake wrote: »
    And @MoFo1 is using the same strategy as DePARA (nice teamwork into dragging this down guys).

    What is your problem with facts ?

    What's yours? (referring to the entire NS2large community)

    Why is it that other mods were hit with the same change in the same way yet it's only the NS2large servers that have had a problem... (nobody will answer this)

    I'll give you the only answer I've been able to come up with. It's because you're all upset about not having a constant stream of new unsuspecting players joining. Your favored server doesn't sit at the top of the browser by default anymore and you're all throwing tantrums as if NS2large has been shut down entirely.

    We've been arguing about the performance, balance, and enjoyability of those servers, but in reality that's all pointless. You guys want to keep your dumbed down horribly performing game mode and that's fine. It just needs to be "unranked" for lack of a better term.. (ie not visible by default along with the other mods and not whitelisted)

    My whole gripe stems from the utter ridiculousness of the complaints being made by NS2large players. Their precious server is one click away yet they're acting like it's hidden under like five sub menus that you have to search through the options menu to unlock.

    Then they wonder why people are treating them like they're stupid...

    Because NS2Large is pretty much the only "mod" that has a significant amount of players and got separated like that. Go ask the people that run siege/faded/whatever servers, I doubt they are very happy either. And yeah, NS2+ servers were hidden too in some cases but that got fixed quickly.

    I agree that the NS2Large servers shouldn't be whitelisted for hive though, you can complain about that to UWE/CDT/whoever handles it now, the whitelisting is not automatic, someone is knowingly whitelisting the NS2Large servers.
    Post edited by Rautapalli on
    Alitedevel
  • woozawooza SwitzerlandMembers, Squad Five Blue Join Date: 2013-11-21 Member: 189496Posts: 171 Fully active user
    @MoFo1
    Can I have your NS2 ID so I can post here how many hours you have played on my servers? It seems you know more about my servers than I do. For example that I would make money and sell reserved slots.
  • OtsOts Members, Constellation Join Date: 2003-07-30 Member: 18577Posts: 780 Fully active user
    Game is sketchy and performs badly on lower server sizes, why on earth do you think it's a suitable environment for new players to join 42ppl servers is just amazing.

    You have your loyal community, you've informed everyone by now that servers are still running. You've voiced your concern that hey, this wasn't a suitable solution to change the browser. NOW MOVE ON. Let the people in charge do approriate changes depending on your feedback, or not. It's not your call, it's theirs.

    These arguments your throwing from both sides are just a waste of everytimes energy at this point.
    IronHorse
  • DilligafDilligaf Members Join Date: 2014-05-25 Member: 196238Posts: 55 Advanced user
    People must have forgotten when the game had only 60 players a day but hey thats none of my business..
  • VetinariVetinari Members, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Silver Join Date: 2013-07-23 Member: 186325Posts: 3,469 Advanced user
    dePARA wrote: »
    Im sure countless players quit the game in the past after opening the serverbrowser and saw only 24 slot and greater (timedependent).

    Absolute nonsense.

    Assuming he's talking about "quitting the game and doing something else" - I do that every week. Assuming he's talking about "quitting the game for good" - I don't know about that, but if I ever quit the game for good, this will probably be a reason for it. (Assuming I don't end up in comp somehow after all.)
    Bicsum wrote: »
    In an 8vs8 you will learn to check your map and lane block

    I wish.
    formerly known as F0rdPrefect

    I am good Onos
  • BicsumBicsum Members, Reinforced - Gold Join Date: 2012-02-27 Member: 147596Posts: 1,014 Advanced user
    edited April 2016
    Rautapalli wrote: »
    Bicsum wrote: »
    Open your server browser and count the seeded 16 slot servers.

    Why do >24 slot servers, being liked with 38.9 %, equal in ~70 filled slots every evening, but 16 slot servers, being liked with 44.7 % not equal in 80 slots filled ervery evening?

    There should be 5!!! 16 slot servers every evening, but I barely find even ONE.
    Dunno where you got your percentages from, if it's something someone polled on this forum then it's kinda meaningless in this context, only a small subset of the people that play NS2 actually visit these forums, which reflects to what you're seeing, there's not many pub players playing on 16 slot servers, just like many pub players have probably never even visited this forum.
    Bicsum wrote: »
    With that logic most people would be playing Tetris.

    Yes, YOU are getting 100+ FPS "most of the time", but you are not most people. The less players the more people could enjoy this game.
    Yeah, the same logic people are using here as a reason for why wooza's server should not show up by default. Performance usually is not the main reason why someone chooses a game/server over another, and for some people it might be, it's completely subjective. If I'm getting 100+ fps on > 3 year old PC then the performance on NS2Large servers should be more than adequate for the type of game that's played on those servers anyway. Besides, the game already warned new players when joining NS2Large servers, which imo. was the correct way of doing it.
    Bicsum wrote: »
    Don't you think it's kind of biased to ask a >24 slot regular whether or not their having fun?
    Not any more biased than competitive players and players that prefer small servers wanting NS2Large servers hidden.

    You joined late into this discussion and hence are not following my line of thought. I will not write everything all over again.
    Wake wrote: »
    Bicsum wrote: »
    Your fact is that >24 slot regulars are having fun, which is absolutely not **** relevant.

    ?? You mean that an average population of 70 over 250 having fun playing NS2 is not relevant ?
    Relevant to what ? Why do you quote me completely out of context ?

    I say : There are regular seasoned players on WoOza who are a real delight to play with. They play smart, they try to gather teams, they enjoy the game, yes, they have fun even when they lose.

    That's it. Now keep on fighting if you want it that way.
    I enjoy playing from say 8v8 to 20v20 (6v6 is too demanding for me) and I'm just testifying what I've witnessed on WOoZa's

    It is not relevant to the following issues:
    1) New players who are having trouble with performance while joining a >24 slot server, thinking it is NS2, while it isn't.
    2) the struggle for everyone, who dislikes >20 slot servers, to find an appropriate server. A server that provides a pleasant, but challanging expirience.

    This struggle is the result of larger servers being easier to seed and are more likely to maintain its player level.
    It is being easier to seed, because there are more regulars who are willing to seed, because the larger slot count are more likely to attract more regulars.

    You are then forced to either seed or not play at all! I HAVE WASTED SO MUCH FUCKING TIME SEEDING (and waiting for players in comp matches for that matter), but I'm sick of seeding.

    I've been saying this for years, and EVERYTIME it ends up with me being intollerant or toxic, but you people just don't understand the fucking issue.

  • RautapalliRautapalli Members, Reinforced - Shadow Join Date: 2010-07-23 Member: 72710Posts: 151 Advanced user
    edited April 2016
    Bicsum wrote: »
    You joined late into this discussion and hence are not following my line of thought. I will not write everything all over again.

    Actually I read the entire thread before posting, sadly that does not make me capable of reading your mind. The issue is either me or your ability to create coherent arguments if you think you've already addressed all that, who knows.
    VetinariAlite
  • BicsumBicsum Members, Reinforced - Gold Join Date: 2012-02-27 Member: 147596Posts: 1,014 Advanced user
    Rautapalli wrote: »
    Bicsum wrote: »
    You joined late into this discussion and hence are not following my line of thought. I will not write everything all over again.

    Actually I read the entire thread before posting, sadly that does not make me capable of reading your mind. The issue is either me or your ability to create coherent arguments if you think you've already addressed all that, who knows.

    Yeah, thats great man. I don't give a fuck anymore.
  • WakeWake Members, Constellation Join Date: 2003-03-05 Member: 14351Posts: 723 Advanced user
    It is not relevant to that because I was not talking about that.

    What do you want ? Publish a list of issues we must make all our discussions relevant to ?
    Start a proper thread with the issue you want to discuss.
    Freak out
This discussion has been closed.