Bring back the NS2 Large on the default server list

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Comments

  • SyntexieSyntexie TrinidadMembers Join Date: 2015-04-26 Member: 203847Posts: 3
    Kouji_San wrote: »
    dePARA wrote: »
    @Deck_

    Server is still there but "hidden" behind one click is a fair compromiss i think.

    Nope, because it hides all "gameplay mods", the entire idea is silly and a way too simple implementation to add functionality which should be worked out in a much better way. The way it should've been handled is AFTER the new serverbrowser was finished with proper server information displayed next to the list of servers...

    The point is to NEVER hide servers, just provide the information about them much more clearly...

    I was typing up a reply but you pretty much hit the nail on the head to what I was going to say.

    This is pretty much the gripe of the whole thing, people are upset because this is something that should've been made ages ago, the game is almost 4 years old, if this was done within the first or second year of being released, I'm sure it would've been upsetting, but not nearly as upsetting as it is right now.

    Going back to my previous reply, if I hadn't been told about the filters thing, I wouldn't have played again, would've launched the game once in a while to check if wooza's was there ( In the default view of the server browser because that's what I'm used to ), just get off again, and started to decrease more and more as time went on.
    Foxy wrote: »
    Syntexie wrote: »
    If people are so against NS2Large servers, then they can simply disconnect it from the official Hive if they so want, since Hive is such a big thing on this game, same as the KF developers did for modded servers, only white listed servers are able to level you up, it's just that simple.

    I assume you are Mrs. Dopy, Welcome to the forums and thanks for making your first post a constructive well thought-out one. Removing the whitelist from NS2Large was discussed many times before and it predictably met with the same protest and hostility as any change that directly or indirectly affects NS2Large.

    As far as the links you've sent my way, they seem quite recent ( Maybe not because I'm not used to this forum layout but it says Jan and Mar for me ), and it still stands with what I said above, people are upset because this is ( believe it or not ) big changes in their eyes, and things that should've been handled forever ago.

    Hive is such a big thing to the NS2 community, because people refuse to start games sometimes because they feel like teams are stacked, if the hive scores are more than even 100 they refuse to start, it's built into them, is why it was met with hostility.

    I feel like, they should do what most other game devs are doing these days, and let the community beat the dead horse while making a sequel to the game to how they want it to be ( Yes I know that NS2 is most likely that for NS1 but it's been quite some time already ).
    Kouji_San
  • Deck_Deck_ Members Join Date: 2014-07-20 Member: 197526Posts: 298 Advanced user
    edited April 2016
    dePARA wrote: »
    So this HUUGE community need rookies to have a working server.
    Thats a interisting point.

    I'm just guessing. Wooza could correct me if that's not the case. I just think it helps because you need a lot of players for the Wooza experience. So yes, it helps if a decent portion of rookies are playing there. It's a lot harder to fill a large server than a small one, as you know. Doesn't mean there isn't players that play there that aren't rookies. My point is, the devs can do whatever they want to the rookies. Throw them in a rookie only server, put restrictions on them...whatever they want. I just think the change hurts veterans that prefer Wooza's and I don't think that's the best decision to make.
  • FoxyFoxy United KingdomMembers, NS2 Playtester, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Shadow Join Date: 2014-08-19 Member: 198032Posts: 470 Advanced user
    Deck_ wrote: »
    That's because Wooza's depends on very high player numbers and needs rookies to make it work. Tactical gamer has a process for not being booted from their server and has a very established player base with a much lower player count needed to get it to work. The requirements are completely different to get back to the experience people had before the update.

    TGNS is behind the EXACT same filter that Wooza's is. This thread is specifically about the 'default server list'.
  • Deck_Deck_ Members Join Date: 2014-07-20 Member: 197526Posts: 298 Advanced user
    Foxy wrote: »
    Deck_ wrote: »
    That's because Wooza's depends on very high player numbers and needs rookies to make it work. Tactical gamer has a process for not being booted from their server and has a very established player base with a much lower player count needed to get it to work. The requirements are completely different to get back to the experience people had before the update.

    TGNS is behind the EXACT same filter that Wooza's is. This thread is specifically about the 'default server list'.

    What are you trying to say? I was saying why it's harder to fill Wooza's server than it is to fill TGNS after the change. I know what the thread is about...
    Alite
  • woozawooza SwitzerlandMembers, Squad Five Blue Join Date: 2013-11-21 Member: 189496Posts: 171 Fully active user
    edited April 2016
    IronHorse wrote: »
    Development time and money has been put into fixing 24+ specific issues and optimizations in the past despite not being officially supported.

    Tell me one optimizations that has just been done especially for a 24+ specific issues. Normal sized servers had the same problems or issues but maybe the symptome were not that drastic or it did occured that as much as on 24+ servers.

    The optimizations had to be done anyway, no matter if "NS2Large" existed or not.

    Assuck
  • dopydopy belgiumMembers Join Date: 2015-08-28 Member: 207551Posts: 22 Fully active user
    IronHorse wrote: »
    dopy wrote: »
    if people want their first experience to be on Wooza's UWE has no right to stop them.
    Wrong, they have every right, and every means to ensure their customers get to experience the work that so many people put so much time and money into over many years.
    If anyone had the right to decide what occurs in this product, it is them, as it's their product and not yours, whether you like it or not.

    I don't get this entitlement mentality, or this hyper victimization.

    People seem to keep forgetting that
    • 24+ servers have been allowed to exist for years now when they could have easily been shut off at any time (for those claiming "you wouldn't because of the player loss", I think of this)
    • Development time and money has been put into fixing 24+ specific issues and optimizations in the past despite not being officially supported.
    • They are whitelisted
    • We have put up with so much crap, hatred and conspiracy theories for years now from some members of that community, it's become white noise.
    • 24+ servers are still being populated to max capacity despite this change. So maybe it's not the end of the world after all??
    • UWE and UWE alone gets to dictate what occurs in their product. They are very open to feedback, but in the end it is their product and their decision on what to support.

    Okay, you're right, but in the end, if they're limiting what new players can see and join, they don't need to be surprised if people quit their game. UWE is the only company I know of that does this shit. Then again, lots of companies have forgotten their roots, seeing as how ns used to be a mod and all. hiding mods from the server browser does nothing but harm the playerbase, but people refuse to see that.

    As for your meme reply to the playercount issue, it baffles me that people call 350'ish people playing at peak is a lively game, UWE and it's team are doing NOTHING to try and keep players playing, and hiding away mods will make this even worse. A lot of people are only playing because of ns2large servers, many amongst those are newbies, but UWE doesn't care about retaining players, your meme reply is a good reply, even if this game had 1 server left with 8 active players you guys wouldn't care and you'd be happy that you have such a "lively" playerbase.

    Okay? If by whitelisted you mean that they're allowed to be on the server list, big whoop, the only reason a server shouldn't be on the server list is if they allow cracked clients to play. If you mean hive access, nobody cares about that, Wooza's would be better off disconnected from the hive.

    I'm glad you put up with so much crap, hatred and conspiracy theories, however you have done very little to prove us wrong, rather you just kept repeating the same thing and hope that we'd give up on trying to make you see our point.

    That's funny because I don't see any ns2large servers

    You're right, UWE alone gets to dictate what occurs in their product, but they're running it into the fucking ground, and we're trying to make them see this. Sorry for bothering.

    deathshroud
  • dopydopy belgiumMembers Join Date: 2015-08-28 Member: 207551Posts: 22 Fully active user
    Foxy wrote: »
    Deck_ wrote: »
    That's because Wooza's depends on very high player numbers and needs rookies to make it work. Tactical gamer has a process for not being booted from their server and has a very established player base with a much lower player count needed to get it to work. The requirements are completely different to get back to the experience people had before the update.

    TGNS is behind the EXACT same filter that Wooza's is. This thread is specifically about the 'default server list'.

    TGNS caved to UWE's stupidity and lowered their spec slots so they wouldn't be classified as large. Do you even check the server list?
  • Deck_Deck_ Members Join Date: 2014-07-20 Member: 197526Posts: 298 Advanced user
    dopy wrote: »
    Foxy wrote: »
    Deck_ wrote: »
    That's because Wooza's depends on very high player numbers and needs rookies to make it work. Tactical gamer has a process for not being booted from their server and has a very established player base with a much lower player count needed to get it to work. The requirements are completely different to get back to the experience people had before the update.

    TGNS is behind the EXACT same filter that Wooza's is. This thread is specifically about the 'default server list'.

    TGNS caved to UWE's stupidity and lowered their spec slots so they wouldn't be classified as large. Do you even check the server list?

    If that's the case, that kinda sums up all my arguments. What else is there to say?
  • FoxyFoxy United KingdomMembers, NS2 Playtester, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Shadow Join Date: 2014-08-19 Member: 198032Posts: 470 Advanced user
    edited April 2016
    dopy wrote: »
    Foxy wrote: »
    Deck_ wrote: »
    That's because Wooza's depends on very high player numbers and needs rookies to make it work. Tactical gamer has a process for not being booted from their server and has a very established player base with a much lower player count needed to get it to work. The requirements are completely different to get back to the experience people had before the update.

    TGNS is behind the EXACT same filter that Wooza's is. This thread is specifically about the 'default server list'.

    TGNS caved to UWE's stupidity and lowered their spec slots so they wouldn't be classified as large. Do you even check the server list?
    4082543cbb5c19e339604747453940f2.png

    I took this screenshot 2 minutes ago, just for you. Do YOU even check the server browser?
  • IronHorseIronHorse Developer, QA Manager, Technical Support & contributorMembers, Super Administrators, Forum Admins, Forum Moderators, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Subnautica Playtester, Subnautica PT Lead, Pistachionauts Join Date: 2010-05-08 Member: 71669Posts: 8,194 admin
    edited April 2016
    @wooza
    You underestimate what bug fixing and optimizations entails : 90% of the time it's triage. You address only the largest of issues and the low hanging fruit.
    While Optimizing specifically for your server (quite a few things were done, so please don't be insulting and pretend they weren't) could potentially assist normal servers under severe load... they were not enough of a priority for typical servers for development time to ever be spent on them simply due to the frequency of occurrence / likelihood / level of impact.

    Your server has always stretched things out to the far end of the spectrum as far as possibility of issues goes (because again.. it was never intended or tested for!) .. and most of the time what severely affects you, may either never affect a typical server, or at most infrequently and rarely affect them.

    You know this and I know this, so it would be great if you just showed appreciation for it instead of trying to disingenuously say "but it was for all!"
    Especially when optimizations or bug fixes had no impact on typical servers, and in some cases ADDED additional overhead.
    // matso 2014-10-17: for large servers (42 players), the time taken to generate
    // delta snapshots can be > 1ms/player, causing the main thread to lock up for 
    // upto 25ms. Avoid that by spreading the load across multiple threads.
    //
    // we split the network snapshot generation across three threads to avoid 
    // blocking the main thread for large player servers - for low player count
    // servers, the overhead of multiple threads will not matter anyhow.
    //
    

    @dopy
    • Weren't you just linked to Blizzard's legal actions? Also, most companies would have never allowed a hacked server exe in the first place.
    • I agree that hiding the mods is an issue and needs to be addressed just as much as the issue of rookies joining different game modes unintentionally.
    • Whitelist means ranked, as in leveling up. Else rookies would be stuck in perpetual rookie mode... which is what was happening. If wooza wanted to be disconnected from the hive why did he ask to be whitelisted??
    • Most everything UWE has done lately has been to retain players - even if you cannot see it or don't understand it.
    • You don't see any ns2large servers? Not even the one that stayed around max capacity for 5+ hours today?

    QUOTE (Techercizer @ Feb 3 2012, 10:47 AM) »
    Every time you ask for troubleshooting without providing system info, ATI adds a rendering bug for an upcoming game.

    When you feel you need to be rude or angry about a game, just read these links and remember what role you are playing:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Online_disinhibition_effect
    http://www.eldergame.com/2008/06/taming-the-forum-tiger/
  • dopydopy belgiumMembers Join Date: 2015-08-28 Member: 207551Posts: 22 Fully active user
    Foxy wrote: »
    dopy wrote: »
    Foxy wrote: »
    Deck_ wrote: »
    That's because Wooza's depends on very high player numbers and needs rookies to make it work. Tactical gamer has a process for not being booted from their server and has a very established player base with a much lower player count needed to get it to work. The requirements are completely different to get back to the experience people had before the update.

    TGNS is behind the EXACT same filter that Wooza's is. This thread is specifically about the 'default server list'.

    TGNS caved to UWE's stupidity and lowered their spec slots so they wouldn't be classified as large. Do you even check the server list?
    4082543cbb5c19e339604747453940f2.png

    I took this screenshot 2 minutes ago, just for you. Do YOU even check the server browser?

    I did actually, Syntex and I wanted to play ns2 an hour ago, there was not a single ns2large server.
  • dePARAdePARA Members, Squad Five Blue Join Date: 2011-04-29 Member: 96321Posts: 1,351 Advanced user
    @neoo
    So whats the point of your post?
    That the game has lost many players in February?

    I dont get it.
    image
  • FoxyFoxy United KingdomMembers, NS2 Playtester, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Shadow Join Date: 2014-08-19 Member: 198032Posts: 470 Advanced user
    dopy wrote: »
    Foxy wrote: »
    dopy wrote: »
    Foxy wrote: »
    Deck_ wrote: »
    That's because Wooza's depends on very high player numbers and needs rookies to make it work. Tactical gamer has a process for not being booted from their server and has a very established player base with a much lower player count needed to get it to work. The requirements are completely different to get back to the experience people had before the update.

    TGNS is behind the EXACT same filter that Wooza's is. This thread is specifically about the 'default server list'.

    TGNS caved to UWE's stupidity and lowered their spec slots so they wouldn't be classified as large. Do you even check the server list?
    4082543cbb5c19e339604747453940f2.png

    I took this screenshot 2 minutes ago, just for you. Do YOU even check the server browser?

    I did actually, Syntex and I wanted to play ns2 an hour ago, there was not a single ns2large server.

    Because it was running LS at that time, and so was filtered out. But it's ok, carry on with the blatant lies such as "TGNS caved to UWE's stupidity and lowered their spec slots" it really helps the validity of any future arguments you make.
    IronHorse
  • cooliticcoolitic Right behind youMembers Join Date: 2013-04-02 Member: 184609Posts: 1,684 Advanced user
    Martigen wrote: »
    coolitic wrote: »
    Really? Sonic The Hedgehog begs to differ. Community input is important for some things, but the developer should decide the direction to take their games.
    You better inform Blizzard then, because Overwatch is being modeled from community input and is destined to be a huge success going by the Beta. Or maybe they should just release their vision without considering what the players want and see what happens? ...

    You completely missed my point.
    When life gives you lemons, throw it back and demand chocolate.


  • woozawooza SwitzerlandMembers, Squad Five Blue Join Date: 2013-11-21 Member: 189496Posts: 171 Fully active user
    edited April 2016
    IronHorse wrote: »
    @wooza
    You underestimate what bug fixing and optimizations entails : 90% of the time it's triage. You address only the largest of issues and the low hanging fruit.
    While Optimizing specifically for your server (quite a few things were done, so please don't be insulting and pretend they weren't) could potentially assist normal servers under severe load... they were not enough of a priority for typical servers for development time to ever be spent on them simply due to the frequency of occurrence / likelihood / level of
    // matso 2014-10-17: for large servers (42 players), the time taken to generate
    // delta snapshots can be > 1ms/player, causing the main thread to lock up for 
    // upto 25ms. Avoid that by spreading the load across multiple threads.
    //
    // we split the network snapshot generation across three threads to avoid 
    // blocking the main thread for large player servers - for low player count
    // servers, the overhead of multiple threads will not matter anyhow.
    //
    

    That's one example and the work of one guy. The only dev that shows no hate against "NS2Large".

    Let's make an example with the famous Halfcrash. It happened most times on my servers as well as on Siege and Faded. Yet other normal sized had this problem too, not as often as large or modded servers but they existed. Saying now the "halfcrash fix" was a fix only for ns2large is silly, it also helped Faded, Siege and other servers that had this problem.

    Same with the optimizations matso did. While he improved the server especially with running on mulitple cores you seem you think that was all done for "ns2large". Without this optimisation and other great stuff matso did, we would need a ~4.0GHz for 16slots for good performance. Is that what you are looking for?

    You are blaming "NS2large" but shows possible weak spots in the engine that can be adressed easily and fixes can be made for everyone, so we don't all need beefy overclocked hardware to run official slot server with to get a good performance rating
    PuphBallDrNodeathshroud
  • VetinariVetinari Members, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Silver Join Date: 2013-07-23 Member: 186325Posts: 3,469 Advanced user
    Okay, question to everyone... what are you even trying to achieve with this discussion at this point?
    formerly known as F0rdPrefect

    I am good Onos
    2cough
  • cooliticcoolitic Right behind youMembers Join Date: 2013-04-02 Member: 184609Posts: 1,684 Advanced user
    edited April 2016
    PuphBall wrote: »
    Keep the filters, but don't use them by default... just place the vanilla servers up top. Everybody wins ( I hope ).
    This is a perfect solution, hope devs consider it.
    When life gives you lemons, throw it back and demand chocolate.


  • PuphBallPuphBall Members, Reinforced - Supporter, Reinforced - Shadow Join Date: 2013-06-06 Member: 185488Posts: 61 Fully active user
    edited April 2016
    @F0rdPrefect We are discussing potential solution to this disagreement, some of which might even improve the server browser UI for everybody. We've had devs and insiders agree to this in previous posts.

    Some people might be slinging poop around, but I'm here to have a decent conversation in defense of modders.
    DrNo
  • dePARAdePARA Members, Squad Five Blue Join Date: 2011-04-29 Member: 96321Posts: 1,351 Advanced user
    @wooza
    Ironhorse made some good points and this is your answer?
    That all Devs hate ns2large servers?

    The conspiracy is real, im not alone. Hurray.

    If i hate something i would try to delelete/disable/or whatever it as fast as possible and not living with it for over 2 years.
    From my point as a real hater, the Devs love you.
    image
  • develdevel Members Join Date: 2014-09-13 Member: 198444Posts: 352 Advanced user
    Actually, one programmer is a lot. Software development in such project doesn't scale with the number of developers.
    coolitic
  • DilligafDilligaf Members Join Date: 2014-05-25 Member: 196238Posts: 55 Advanced user
    Okay, question to everyone... what are you even trying to achieve with this discussion at this point?

    Seems people are trying to prove who is the most intelligent, this thread is changing into the Worldstarhiphop comments..
  • dopydopy belgiumMembers Join Date: 2015-08-28 Member: 207551Posts: 22 Fully active user
    IronHorse wrote: »
    @dopy
    • Weren't you just linked to Blizzard's legal actions? Also, most companies would have never allowed a hacked server exe in the first place.
    • I agree that hiding the mods is an issue and needs to be addressed just as much as the issue of rookies joining different game modes unintentionally.
    • Whitelist means ranked, as in leveling up. Else rookies would be stuck in perpetual rookie mode... which is what was happening. If wooza wanted to be disconnected from the hive why did he ask to be whitelisted??
    • Most everything UWE has done lately has been to retain players - even if you cannot see it or don't understand it.
    • You don't see any ns2large servers? Not even the one that stayed around max capacity for 5+ hours today?

    *Stop trying to compare this to what's going with ns2large, it's not similar in the least, Blizzard took action because of piracy, there is no piracy going on here. And even then, Blizzard brought this upon themselves, fans of WoW have been asking for a vanilla server for years now, and the generic reply they get is "you think you want that, but you don't", that phrase is literally famous by now. The inability for blizzard to see what their fans want is what caused all this mess.

    But hey, if you want this to be similar to what's happening with blizzard, i'm sure moving ns2large to a cracked client of ns2 wouldn't be difficult, would that make you happier? Then it'd be the same as what you're trying to prove right?

    *I'm not speaking for Wooza, i'm saying that I personally think that if wooza's servers can be on the main server list if they get disconnected from the hive, go for it, at least then ns2large won't be dead.

    *Right... kicking off the CDT to push out some DLC to get some more dollars from the little players they have left is wonderful player retention.

    * That was not "today", but I guess this is because of timezones, this was last night/early morning of today. The only reason the server got active is because of something I already stated earlier. People spammed everyone on steam friends to make them aware that the server was still up, cause nobody goddamn knew.


    Foxy wrote: »

    Because it was running LS at that time, and so was filtered out. But it's ok, carry on with the blatant lies such as "TGNS caved to UWE's stupidity and lowered their spec slots" it really helps the validity of any future arguments you make.

    My bad, it was MCG, who tried seeding as ns2large for hours on end and nobody joined cause nobody could find the server, however after lowering their slots to be classified as ns2normal they capped the server pretty much instantly, because then people could find it again.

  • FoxyFoxy United KingdomMembers, NS2 Playtester, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Shadow Join Date: 2014-08-19 Member: 198032Posts: 470 Advanced user
    dopy wrote: »
    And I know how many donations he's received because i'm a big part of wooza's. Wooza's isn't just Wooza and ATF anymore like it used to be.

    Does this mean you are speaking officially on behalf of Wooza's here? That would be good to know, for reasons.

  • dopydopy belgiumMembers Join Date: 2015-08-28 Member: 207551Posts: 22 Fully active user
    Foxy wrote: »
    dopy wrote: »
    And I know how many donations he's received because i'm a big part of wooza's. Wooza's isn't just Wooza and ATF anymore like it used to be.

    Does this mean you are speaking officially on behalf of Wooza's here? That would be good to know, for reasons.

    No, wether or not i'm "part of wooza's" doesn't matter in this case, i'm speaking on my own free will and making my own judgement as a single player of this game. But that does not mean i'm alone in my views.
    ImmortalKing
  • IronHorseIronHorse Developer, QA Manager, Technical Support & contributorMembers, Super Administrators, Forum Admins, Forum Moderators, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Subnautica Playtester, Subnautica PT Lead, Pistachionauts Join Date: 2010-05-08 Member: 71669Posts: 8,194 admin
    wooza wrote: »
    Tell me one optimizations that has just been done especially for a 24+ specific issues.
    wooza wrote: »
    That's one example and the work of one guy.

    If you can't follow your own goal posts you shouldn't be participating in the discussion.

    QUOTE (Techercizer @ Feb 3 2012, 10:47 AM) »
    Every time you ask for troubleshooting without providing system info, ATI adds a rendering bug for an upcoming game.

    When you feel you need to be rude or angry about a game, just read these links and remember what role you are playing:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Online_disinhibition_effect
    http://www.eldergame.com/2008/06/taming-the-forum-tiger/
    cooliticVetinari
This discussion has been closed.