Is this game too easy?

lxhlxh Austria Join Date: 2015-03-13 Member: 202074Members
... or in other words: How about a harder hardcore mode?

Frankly: After 2 hours i've done, crafted and built anything. I didn't drown, starve, didn't die of thirst, creatures or radiation ... but of boredom. So what's next? What's it gonna be? There is simply nothing to do, no aim, no point, no purpose but perfect conditions for an ingame suicide.

Defs: If you read this ... could you please make it harder and btw seriously reconsider the main game concept? There MUST be an aim beside closing the radiation leak (which seems to go the right direction). I'd really appreciate playing subnautica for at least 8 hours. So how about crafting a huge bunch of repair drones and collecting tons of exceptional resources to repair the Aurora? Such (optional) main goal would justify to kill reapers around and finally explore and loot the 'whole world'.
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Comments

  • SeldkamSeldkam Join Date: 2014-01-01 Member: 191213Members
  • rainer128rainer128 United states Join Date: 2015-11-08 Member: 209096Members
    lxh wrote: »
    ... or in other words: How about a harder hardcore mode?

    Frankly: After 2 hours i've done, crafted and built anything. I didn't drown, starve, didn't die of thirst, creatures or radiation ... but of boredom. So what's next? What's it gonna be? There is simply nothing to do, no aim, no point, no purpose but perfect conditions for an ingame suicide.

    Defs: If you read this ... could you please make it harder and btw seriously reconsider the main game concept? There MUST be an aim beside closing the radiation leak (which seems to go the right direction). I'd really appreciate playing subnautica for at least 8 hours. So how about crafting a huge bunch of repair drones and collecting tons of exceptional resources to repair the Aurora? Such (optional) main goal would justify to kill reapers around and finally explore and loot the 'whole world'.

    I second this hardcore portion of the game feels lacking in difficulty. I would like to see something, like a major increase in aggro range for some, such as sand sharks, I'm disappointed as I can swim so near to them before they actually attack. This being said it feels like they are more netrual, well until you get super close. The reaper idea, what if they dropped umm, maybe something like a nanite repair paste of sorts. Thinking of something possibly in there scale's, blood, or goo on their body. This is were "paste" comes into my mind it is alien world who know the possibility's this goes into the idea of repairing the aurora. All I find myself doing is building base's, with no fear of attacker's I do wish sleep was needed for hardcore and the idea for having to make repairs, due to maintenance needed over certain time scale, again for hardcore.
  • SeldkamSeldkam Join Date: 2014-01-01 Member: 191213Members
    THE GAME IS NOT FINISHED.

    It hasn't even reached BETA yet.
    They have not even begun to make adjustments.
    I realize this may be tough, but a little patience (on YOUR part) may be required.

    Nonono, that's not how forums work mate. You disagreeing with us doesn't mean we have to "be patient". And essentially just shut up lol.

    I disagree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it.

    :)

    This is a two way street , deal with jt
  • fireboy633fireboy633 america Join Date: 2015-11-15 Member: 209279Members
    this is a good point ive pushed my self to the tests go no geared into the arurora not even radioition with medpacks it was to easy besides those damn reaper screams
  • TIEbomber1967TIEbomber1967 California Join Date: 2015-09-23 Member: 208109Members
    edited November 2015
    Seldkam wrote: »

    Nonono, that's not how forums work mate. You disagreeing with us doesn't mean we have to "be patient". And essentially just shut up lol.

    I disagree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it.

    :)

    This is a two way street , deal with jt

    I did not disagree with you. Where in my post did I say the game's difficulty was fine?
    I also did not tell you to shut up. Where in my post did I say you couldn't/shouldn't post?
    I realize that there probably isn't anything anyone can say to make you be patient.
    You've imagined some insult or argument where there is none.

    What I was doing was pointing out that the the game is still in a VERY early stage of development, and will undoubtedly change. The developers have their own schedule, and will in their own time, make changes. Perhaps one of those changes will be game difficulty.
    It's truly amazing that people get upset at the thought of waiting.

  • SeldkamSeldkam Join Date: 2014-01-01 Member: 191213Members
    edited November 2015
    Seldkam wrote: »

    Nonono, that's not how forums work mate. You disagreeing with us doesn't mean we have to "be patient". And essentially just shut up lol.

    I disagree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it.

    :)

    This is a two way street , deal with jt

    I did not disagree with you. Where in my post did I say the game's difficulty was fine?
    I also did not tell you to shut up. Where in my post did I say you couldn't/shouldn't post?
    I realize that there probably isn't anything anyone can say to make you be patient.
    You've imagined some insult or argument where there is none.

    What I was doing was pointing out that the the game is still in a VERY early stage of development, and will undoubtedly change. The developers have their own schedule, and will in their own time, make changes. Perhaps one of those changes will be game difficulty.
    It's truly amazing that people get upset at the thought of waiting.


    Could you explain why exactly it makes any sense to NOT give feedback before the game is in a ready state?

    I mean you're saying that the forum should be silent because the devs have their own plans, which is a stretch to say the least since they have actually altered their plans because of our feedback lol.

    You may not disagree, and you may think you're not silencing those who are giving feedback, but your call for patience is just utterly nonsensical

    As a side note, your statement of saying they haven't actually began to alter their current assets is false
  • mariotusekmariotusek rotterdam Join Date: 2015-05-27 Member: 204939Members
    THE GAME IS NOT FINISHED.

    It hasn't even reached BETA yet.
    They have not even begun to make adjustments.
    I realize this may be tough, but a little patience (on YOUR part) may be required.

    this game.... is so pre alpha
  • lxhlxh Austria Join Date: 2015-03-13 Member: 202074Members
    edited November 2015
    Yep, it might be pre alpha - and btw the best time to take account of psychological aspects of long time motivation and replayability. Better now than later, if you ask me. But the very most inventions and extensions added in the last couple of month made the gameplay easier and easier ... and ... shorter if someone doesn't share the barbie house mentality. Building things without a need is nice but seems to catch the tamagotchi train and finally raises my suspicion that there is no script. And it wouldn't be any surprise to me if we end up feeding fish in the aquarium.

    Well, for my part there is no need for more furnishings & co but for real challenges within a good story.

    Constructive ideas are welcome.
  • crane476crane476 United States, Tx Join Date: 2015-08-07 Member: 206850Members
    The game is getting a story that the player will be able to follow or ignore depending on their play style. There will eventually be an ultimate goal to aspire to. From what I've seen I'm assuming it will be finding out what what caused the Aurora to crash and finding some way to call for help.
  • lxhlxh Austria Join Date: 2015-03-13 Member: 202074Members
    crane476 wrote: »
    The game is getting a story that the player will be able to follow or ignore depending on their play style. There will eventually be an ultimate goal to aspire to. From what I've seen I'm assuming it will be finding out what what caused the Aurora to crash and finding some way to call for help.

    Hey, this is a real good message! But what's the truism: 'Who do you listen to?'
    Where did you get this information?
  • IronHorseIronHorse Developer, QA Manager, Technical Support & contributor Join Date: 2010-05-08 Member: 71669Members, Super Administrators, Forum Admins, Forum Moderators, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Subnautica Playtester, Subnautica PT Lead, Pistachionauts
    @lxh It was announced in these forums, on their twitter, and you can follow the story progress on the publicly available Trello board.
  • ShuryCZShuryCZ Czech Republic Join Date: 2015-07-07 Member: 206047Members
    Actually, the gameplay will be longer. Just few hours ago, there was new update on the trello. The fragment/blueprint system will be changed (check it, it's with explanation). And that is only a small part of the whole system. I would not worry, it will get better (=longer). What we see now is only the basic foundation, but I agree with @lxh, this is the right time to say it here aload.
  • Monkey_MacMonkey_Mac Join Date: 2015-11-10 Member: 209147Members
    Seldkam wrote: »
    Seldkam wrote: »

    Nonono, that's not how forums work mate. You disagreeing with us doesn't mean we have to "be patient". And essentially just shut up lol.

    I disagree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it.

    :)

    This is a two way street , deal with jt

    I did not disagree with you. Where in my post did I say the game's difficulty was fine?
    I also did not tell you to shut up. Where in my post did I say you couldn't/shouldn't post?
    I realize that there probably isn't anything anyone can say to make you be patient.
    You've imagined some insult or argument where there is none.

    What I was doing was pointing out that the the game is still in a VERY early stage of development, and will undoubtedly change. The developers have their own schedule, and will in their own time, make changes. Perhaps one of those changes will be game difficulty.
    It's truly amazing that people get upset at the thought of waiting.


    Could you explain why exactly it makes any sense to NOT give feedback before the game is in a ready state?

    I mean you're saying that the forum should be silent because the devs have their own plans, which is a stretch to say the least since they have actually altered their plans because of our feedback lol.

    You may not disagree, and you may think you're not silencing those who are giving feedback, but your call for patience is just utterly nonsensical

    As a side note, your statement of saying they haven't actually began to alter their current assets is false

    I think your missing his point, again the game is probably gonna be quite easy at this point in time due to the large amount of implementing features.

    And to be fair adding an even more hard core mode won't make any more difficult.

    Short of giving you the lung capacity of a squirrel, the appetite of a Snorlax and the thirst of a fish with a biome wide aggro range for bigger predators. This game won't get harder.
  • lxhlxh Austria Join Date: 2015-03-13 Member: 202074Members
    edited November 2015
    Monkey_Mac wrote: »
    Short of giving you the lung capacity of a squirrel, the appetite of a Snorlax and the thirst of a fish with a biome wide aggro range for bigger predators. This game won't get harder.

    Ah, apropos missing the point. There should be a few more options to make a game harder. How about less recourses to find but more for crafting? Lower power efficiency? Rare and randomly spread fragments? Harder to catch fish? How about dangerous fauna? Man, i can dance with the sharks and they can't catch me. Oh what a fun ... :/

    Edit: And by the way, 'only indoor eating' would make sense too - means I cannot check my inventory (resp. take a snack) inside seamoth but take a dinner and some drinks at a thousand meters depths? Imbecility
  • Monkey_MacMonkey_Mac Join Date: 2015-11-10 Member: 209147Members
    lxh wrote: »
    Monkey_Mac wrote: »
    Short of giving you the lung capacity of a squirrel, the appetite of a Snorlax and the thirst of a fish with a biome wide aggro range for bigger predators. This game won't get harder.

    Ah, apropos missing the point. There should be a few more options to make a game harder. How about less recourses to find but more for crafting? Lower power efficiency? Rare and randomly spread fragments? Harder to catch fish? How about dangerous fauna? Man, i can dance with the sharks and they can't catch me. Oh what a fun ... :/

    Edit: And by the way, 'only indoor eating' would make sense too - means I cannot check my inventory (resp. take a snack) inside seamoth but take a dinner and some drinks at a thousand meters depths? Imbecility

    Well you see now we are getting to the real point, the game isn't easy because predators are too easy to dodge. Or because food sources are too easy to find.

    What makes this game "easy" is the lack of intelligent behavior from the fauna. The lack of context sensitive hunger. (The more intensive your actions the faster you consume energy) The lack of defensive behaviour from flora.

    The majority of your problems can be solved from the above 3 points, however I agree that the power systems are overly simplified (as to be expected from a pre alpha) and could do with an overhaul after H2O.
  • lxhlxh Austria Join Date: 2015-03-13 Member: 202074Members
    Well, it is very kind that you wanna talk about what you call 'my problem' :blush:
    And I even agree with your behavior theory! But you miss the point again if you argue it as the one and only solution to make this game more difficult.
    In fact there are some more possibilities to turn it into a real challenge - of course not for everyone, that's why we are talking about the hardcore mode. Me and I'm sure heaps of other oldscool players out there would appreciate something you have to 'master' (know what i mean?) - btw and nowadays a very rare phenomenon of the computer game industry where producers simply doesn't dare their clientele more than following waypoints and shooting at some predefined targets. But ok ... this is early access, pre alpha, the devs like feedback and that's why we're talking. And I'm pretty sure some of the devs are sort of 'oldscool' as well, remembering the golden days and try to push out a 'masterpiece' ... so listen:

    Imagine the best of us in the protagonists situation would have at best a 50:50 chance to survive. Take this as a constant! Now - i know it is just the basement - we have 99:1 in hardcore(!) mode ... and that's my call. (POINT)
  • SeldkamSeldkam Join Date: 2014-01-01 Member: 191213Members
    Monkey_Mac wrote: »
    Seldkam wrote: »
    Seldkam wrote: »

    Nonono, that's not how forums work mate. You disagreeing with us doesn't mean we have to "be patient". And essentially just shut up lol.

    I disagree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it.

    :)

    This is a two way street , deal with jt

    I did not disagree with you. Where in my post did I say the game's difficulty was fine?
    I also did not tell you to shut up. Where in my post did I say you couldn't/shouldn't post?
    I realize that there probably isn't anything anyone can say to make you be patient.
    You've imagined some insult or argument where there is none.

    What I was doing was pointing out that the the game is still in a VERY early stage of development, and will undoubtedly change. The developers have their own schedule, and will in their own time, make changes. Perhaps one of those changes will be game difficulty.
    It's truly amazing that people get upset at the thought of waiting.


    Could you explain why exactly it makes any sense to NOT give feedback before the game is in a ready state?

    I mean you're saying that the forum should be silent because the devs have their own plans, which is a stretch to say the least since they have actually altered their plans because of our feedback lol.

    You may not disagree, and you may think you're not silencing those who are giving feedback, but your call for patience is just utterly nonsensical

    As a side note, your statement of saying they haven't actually began to alter their current assets is false

    I think your missing his point, again the game is probably gonna be quite easy at this point in time due to the large amount of implementing features.

    And to be fair adding an even more hard core mode won't make any more difficult.

    Short of giving you the lung capacity of a squirrel, the appetite of a Snorlax and the thirst of a fish with a biome wide aggro range for bigger predators. This game won't get harder.

    So you didn't explain why feedback should wait until later, which is kind of silly. His point is explained in my post, and yours is really quite a twist of his words... Even so , either way, there is no logical reason not to voice opinions as early as possible.
  • Monkey_MacMonkey_Mac Join Date: 2015-11-10 Member: 209147Members
    Seldkam wrote: »
    Monkey_Mac wrote: »
    Seldkam wrote: »
    Seldkam wrote: »

    Nonono, that's not how forums work mate. You disagreeing with us doesn't mean we have to "be patient". And essentially just shut up lol.

    I disagree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it.

    :)

    This is a two way street , deal with jt

    I did not disagree with you. Where in my post did I say the game's difficulty was fine?
    I also did not tell you to shut up. Where in my post did I say you couldn't/shouldn't post?
    I realize that there probably isn't anything anyone can say to make you be patient.
    You've imagined some insult or argument where there is none.

    What I was doing was pointing out that the the game is still in a VERY early stage of development, and will undoubtedly change. The developers have their own schedule, and will in their own time, make changes. Perhaps one of those changes will be game difficulty.
    It's truly amazing that people get upset at the thought of waiting.


    Could you explain why exactly it makes any sense to NOT give feedback before the game is in a ready state?

    I mean you're saying that the forum should be silent because the devs have their own plans, which is a stretch to say the least since they have actually altered their plans because of our feedback lol.

    You may not disagree, and you may think you're not silencing those who are giving feedback, but your call for patience is just utterly nonsensical

    As a side note, your statement of saying they haven't actually began to alter their current assets is false

    I think your missing his point, again the game is probably gonna be quite easy at this point in time due to the large amount of implementing features.

    And to be fair adding an even more hard core mode won't make any more difficult.

    Short of giving you the lung capacity of a squirrel, the appetite of a Snorlax and the thirst of a fish with a biome wide aggro range for bigger predators. This game won't get harder.

    So you didn't explain why feedback should wait until later, which is kind of silly. His point is explained in my post, and yours is really quite a twist of his words... Even so , either way, there is no logical reason not to voice opinions as early as possible.

    OK, so saying game is too easy, when the game is in pre-alpha stages is like saying a door is useless because it doesn't swing, when it hasn't yet been installed.

    It'l probably be like that for quite a while and just saying make it harder, doesn't really help the situation.
  • Monkey_MacMonkey_Mac Join Date: 2015-11-10 Member: 209147Members
    lxh wrote: »
    Well, it is very kind that you wanna talk about what you call 'my problem' :blush:
    And I even agree with your behavior theory! But you miss the point again if you argue it as the one and only solution to make this game more difficult.
    In fact there are some more possibilities to turn it into a real challenge - of course not for everyone, that's why we are talking about the hardcore mode. Me and I'm sure heaps of other oldscool players out there would appreciate something you have to 'master' (know what i mean?) - btw and nowadays a very rare phenomenon of the computer game industry where producers simply doesn't dare their clientele more than following waypoints and shooting at some predefined targets. But ok ... this is early access, pre alpha, the devs like feedback and that's why we're talking. And I'm pretty sure some of the devs are sort of 'oldscool' as well, remembering the golden days and try to push out a 'masterpiece' ... so listen:

    Imagine the best of us in the protagonists situation would have at best a 50:50 chance to survive. Take this as a constant! Now - i know it is just the basement - we have 99:1 in hardcore(!) mode ... and that's my call. (POINT)

    No it's not the only but it's one of the better solutions. Doesn't the current hardcore mode only have 1 life, if the game is a masterpiece it will always challenge the player even without hardcore mode, the difference is hardcore mode, will make you regret your mistakes, normal will stick a plaster on it.
  • SeldkamSeldkam Join Date: 2014-01-01 Member: 191213Members
    Monkey_Mac wrote: »
    Seldkam wrote: »
    Monkey_Mac wrote: »
    Seldkam wrote: »
    Seldkam wrote: »

    Nonono, that's not how forums work mate. You disagreeing with us doesn't mean we have to "be patient". And essentially just shut up lol.

    I disagree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it.

    :)

    This is a two way street , deal with jt

    I did not disagree with you. Where in my post did I say the game's difficulty was fine?
    I also did not tell you to shut up. Where in my post did I say you couldn't/shouldn't post?
    I realize that there probably isn't anything anyone can say to make you be patient.
    You've imagined some insult or argument where there is none.

    What I was doing was pointing out that the the game is still in a VERY early stage of development, and will undoubtedly change. The developers have their own schedule, and will in their own time, make changes. Perhaps one of those changes will be game difficulty.
    It's truly amazing that people get upset at the thought of waiting.


    Could you explain why exactly it makes any sense to NOT give feedback before the game is in a ready state?

    I mean you're saying that the forum should be silent because the devs have their own plans, which is a stretch to say the least since they have actually altered their plans because of our feedback lol.

    You may not disagree, and you may think you're not silencing those who are giving feedback, but your call for patience is just utterly nonsensical

    As a side note, your statement of saying they haven't actually began to alter their current assets is false

    I think your missing his point, again the game is probably gonna be quite easy at this point in time due to the large amount of implementing features.

    And to be fair adding an even more hard core mode won't make any more difficult.

    Short of giving you the lung capacity of a squirrel, the appetite of a Snorlax and the thirst of a fish with a biome wide aggro range for bigger predators. This game won't get harder.

    So you didn't explain why feedback should wait until later, which is kind of silly. His point is explained in my post, and yours is really quite a twist of his words... Even so , either way, there is no logical reason not to voice opinions as early as possible.

    OK, so saying game is too easy, when the game is in pre-alpha stages is like saying a door is useless because it doesn't swing, when it hasn't yet been installed.

    It'l probably be like that for quite a while and just saying make it harder, doesn't really help the situation.

    But that's a terrible analogy... The door IS swinging, just some people want it to be a pus h door, and some a pull... And the workman is figuring out which way to do it. WHILE he is installing it

    If the door isn't even there so to speak we wouldn't be playing the game
  • lxhlxh Austria Join Date: 2015-03-13 Member: 202074Members
    Easy guys ... it's very simple:
    Yes, it is in development and yes, we give feedback.
    Yes, there is a hardcore mode and yes, it isn't hardcore.
    Right?
  • SeldkamSeldkam Join Date: 2014-01-01 Member: 191213Members
    lxh wrote: »
    Easy guys ... it's very simple:
    Yes, it is in development and yes, we give feedback.
    Yes, there is a hardcore mode and yes, it isn't hardcore.
    Right?

    Apparently not. Which is why I'm trying to explain why that should be how it works (and IS how it works) but failing miserably
  • crane476crane476 United States, Tx Join Date: 2015-08-07 Member: 206850Members
    Seldkam wrote: »
    lxh wrote: »
    Easy guys ... it's very simple:
    Yes, it is in development and yes, we give feedback.
    Yes, there is a hardcore mode and yes, it isn't hardcore.
    Right?

    Apparently not. Which is why I'm trying to explain why that should be how it works (and IS how it works) but failing miserably

    I would agree with you. I have played the game to completion multiple times, even on hardcore, and have not been close to death even once.
  • XadieXadie Germany Join Date: 2015-11-06 Member: 209020Members
    edited November 2015
    I have played the game to completion multiple times, even on hardcore, and have not been close to death even once.

    I/We feeling with you pal :neutral:
  • StakhanovStakhanov Join Date: 2003-03-12 Member: 14448Members
    For what it's worth , my first playthrough had me low on health from an early leech bite and stalker encounter , almost reached full thirst , then I drowned due to overestimating my swimming speed. Possibly the game needs separate difficulty levels for survival/hardcore , besides freedom and creative modes.
  • LuitjensLuitjens Join Date: 2010-07-26 Member: 73034Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow, Subnautica Playtester
  • HaliosHalios Oz Join Date: 2015-11-27 Member: 209514Members
    Yeah unless you're stupid or careless death is extremely unlikely. But maybe that's not a bad thing.

    This is a survival game and survival literally means not dieing. Games typically trivialise death by letting us cheat it. Having been so trivialised it then becomes a common occurrence which we repeatedly get over.

    I'm pretty comfortable with Subnautica's current level of danger. It's there. Predators will eat you given the opportunity. But it you play smart then you're fine. That feels realistic to me.
  • XadieXadie Germany Join Date: 2015-11-06 Member: 209020Members
    Halios wrote: »
    Yeah unless you're stupid or careless death is extremely unlikely. But maybe that's not a bad thing.

    Well it definitly kills my long-time motivation to play the game. As soon as I've seen all the new stuff after a patch I stop playing, because I'm bored of the easyness of survival.

  • lxhlxh Austria Join Date: 2015-03-13 Member: 202074Members
    edited November 2015
    Xadie wrote: »
    Well it definitly kills my long-time motivation ... because I'm bored of the easyness of survival.

    Motivation typically lasts as long as there is something to reach, find, get, defend, fight or hide from.
    To die more easily doesn't really increase motivation but makes the gameplay longer (the player has to be better prepared, equipped i.e. and cannot jump in any situation anytime).
    In my opinion a 'hardcore mode' isn't simply more dangerous but definitely more difficult which affects all(!) aspects of the game.
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