Players jacking up stats

KobeKobe USA Join Date: 2014-06-03 Member: 196367Members
When I played basketball in high school, I remember my coach saying this to me:
Players need to be coached to play defense, because everyone wants to be the guy who puts the ball in the basket.

10 years later, this is still true. Again and again in online multiplayer games, I see players jacking up stats. It's always the same "I don't care if we win or not, as long as I get my 40/5" mentality. The problem is not so much the fact that they are jacking up stats, the problem is what some people would do in order to get that 40/5.

So what I've done in the past week is speccing a couple of players in my community and this is basically how they do it:

* always avoid big battles such as raiding a hive or defend base from alien rush, always look for lone skulks around the map
* when base is getting bile rushed and comm drops a beacon, never aim for gorges or high life forms, always go for skulks (this result in onos/fades getting away from a chase down / structures being bile bombed)
* never waste ammo on RTs, let teammate do the shoot down while waiting for skulks
* never phase when PG is under attack, wonders off to find lone skulks
* goes into an undefended hive, has ample time to shoot down a upgrade chamber or 2, but instead wait for skulks to spawn to get that easy kill
* finds a gorge tunnel but won't shoot it down, waits on the other side for skulks to come out

Anyway, spec the some players in your ns2 community and you'd be surprised how many people actually do this. Note: the person actually need to be a decent shooter to do this.

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Comments

  • SantaClawsSantaClaws Denmark Join Date: 2012-07-31 Member: 154491Members, Reinforced - Shadow
    You know. Most of those points are solid advice.

    Anyway - what is your purpose with this thread exactly?
  • d0ped0gd0ped0g Join Date: 2003-05-25 Member: 16679Members
    edited June 2014
    There are ways to be selfish in terms of prioritizing your k/d over doing things to help win the game, but if you are doing that, and this leads to you losing a phase or not getting that lifeform/gorge-tunnel kill or whatever, your k/d is going to suffer more in the long run.

    The players that are able to achieve these scores likely already know this, so I don't think it happens all that often.
  • SantaClawsSantaClaws Denmark Join Date: 2012-07-31 Member: 154491Members, Reinforced - Shadow
    I'll try to address each point to maybe explain the thought process that you may have missed.

    1) Most of the time, going in to big battles will actually heavily increase your K/D as a good shooter, cuz you can let your mates take all the bites. The reason smart players don't join the big fights all the time, is because they know they are needed elsewhere. If everyone responds to all the big fights, you get nowhere as marines. You need to spread out and put pressure at multiple points, even if you're getting pressured in base.

    2) The skulks are the real damage dealers, pick them off first. In reality, gorges are the easy frags, but it doesn't really help you win to kill them, neither in the short or long term. Focusing higher lifeforms vs skulks is all situational, but a lot of the time, it's the correct decision to kill the skulks first.

    3) That's just bullshit. Obviously you preserve ammo if you know you're getting ambushed, but shooting rt's is exactly how you "jack up stats".

    4) Obviously you don't phase in to meat grinders. Often times it's better to not use phasegates, because you get to 'sweep the map'. When you jump through the map, you get no information on wether there are aliens in between the gates.

    5) Egg locking can often be more productive than killing a chamber or two, especially if you're alone.

    6) If you're playing without comp-mod, it's very difficult to solo a tunnel anyways, especially if you waste bullets on anything other than the skulks.
  • Soul_RiderSoul_Rider Mod Bean Join Date: 2004-06-19 Member: 29388Members, Constellation, Squad Five Blue
    Now this is the kind of thread I like to see, where people recognise that thought processes are different and take the time to explain those differences. Can we please have more of these threads rather than the one's where the groups complain about each other all the time?
  • StBastardStBastard Italy Join Date: 2014-05-30 Member: 196299Members
    Spawn killing instead of destroying upgrades is a lot more effective for the rines team. It's always better to have less aliens on the map, even if half of them are skulks. Having upgrades up but only 75% of the alien team actively playing is better for the rines than having 100% of the alien team deployed on map in exchange of destroying maybe a single upgrade. And that calls for some other alien players to get back to the room to get rid of the spawn killer, thus giving breath to the rines team in all the rest of the map.

    The only thing that is really patethic and you didn't mention, it's when some players (and it happens, sadly), with rifle and a welder, don't weld the teammates with a SG/GL, waiting for the poor sod to die so they can grab the weapon for free. Now that's unexcusable.
  • KobeKobe USA Join Date: 2014-06-03 Member: 196367Members
    StBastard wrote: »
    some players (and it happens, sadly), with rifle and a welder, don't weld the teammates with a SG/GL, waiting for the poor sod to die so they can grab the weapon for free. Now that's unexcusable.

    They don't weld because they are too busy defending teammates with SG/GL from alien attacks, and they pick up dead teammates' weapons because they are recycling them.

    See what I did there?
  • It's Super Effective!It's Super Effective! Join Date: 2012-08-28 Member: 156625Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow
    I find the highest scoring players are the one on the front line in the biggest battles. However, I've seen these same players also take the time to recap and watch the back b line for any sneaky attacks. I think it books down to that they are in the most engagements and respectively most pubs just lemming with others with no real clear objective in mind.
  • DaveodethDaveodeth Join Date: 2012-11-21 Member: 172717Members
    Many many times i've welded someone and a rather than keep an eye out they watch me weld and we get rushed. welding a rine can be a death sentence sometimes.
  • CalegoCalego Join Date: 2013-01-24 Member: 181848Members, NS2 Map Tester
    Kobe wrote: »
    StBastard wrote: »
    some players (and it happens, sadly), with rifle and a welder, don't weld the teammates with a SG/GL, waiting for the poor sod to die so they can grab the weapon for free. Now that's unexcusable.

    They don't weld because they are too busy defending teammates with SG/GL from alien attacks, and they pick up dead teammates' weapons because they are recycling them.

    See what I did there?
    You made a perfectly logical counterpoint. Sweeping Generalization is the term you're looking for.

    As the people before me have demonstrated, there are perfectly good reasons for doing that which you are complaining about. It really all depends on the situation and the players.

    It's also interesting to me that you seem to have started this thread with the soul purpose of complaining about this behavior. Not laughing at it or even trying to suggest remedies/strategies. Nor did you ask if there was a decent reason for doing this stuff, you just felt like complaining?
  • _INTER__INTER_ Join Date: 2009-08-08 Member: 68392Members, NS2 Playtester, Reinforced - Shadow
    I never liked basketball.


    I actually like having 1 or 2 guys like that in my team. I can go about wielding RT's and they have my back. If the whole team would be k/d whoring however, they are likely to loose.
  • amoralamoral Join Date: 2013-01-03 Member: 177250Members
    phase gate, if i'm LMG, yolo, through it with anything less than 3 aliens around the gate, and go through jumping and "swinging". if i have a shotgun, generally wait for an LMG to hop through first, to check out and see if i'm just throwing away pres.

    covering lanes is something that always needs to be done, because res is one of the most important things in the game.

    when skulks hop around hive, prioritize the gorges if your comm built a gorge magnet, otherwise, gorges can't kill your marines, skulks can. Also, in most situations, you'll have very little opportunity to kill off a fade, lerks may be fair game, but fades have too much health, so might as well kill something that can be killed and then force the fades to retreat. Onos, i'll always focus the gorge then his onos, because onos's are big, fat and juicy. all that pres.



    :), i've actually had pretty good luck with jumping into a gorge tunnel to wait for skulks. cuz... gorge built long corridors are fun.
  • SantaClawsSantaClaws Denmark Join Date: 2012-07-31 Member: 154491Members, Reinforced - Shadow
    Kobe wrote: »
    StBastard wrote: »
    some players (and it happens, sadly), with rifle and a welder, don't weld the teammates with a SG/GL, waiting for the poor sod to die so they can grab the weapon for free. Now that's unexcusable.

    They don't weld because they are too busy defending teammates with SG/GL from alien attacks, and they pick up dead teammates' weapons because they are recycling them.

    See what I did there?

    Yea I see what you did there. You're one of those guys who refuse to learn. You can recognize that someone has a huge score, but you dismiss it as if he's somehow abusing the game to make your self feel less helpless.

    If you want to improve, take a minute to digest all of the advice you're getting from here. And rather than sticking to your presumptions, that people are just farming points, ask your self if there may be a legitimate reasoning behind their decisions.

    Please recognize that almost no one here agrees with you in this thread. And it's not because we're all "jacking up stats".
  • Cannon_FodderAUSCannon_FodderAUS Brisbane, AU Join Date: 2013-06-23 Member: 185664Members, Squad Five Blue, Squad Five Silver, Reinforced - Shadow
    I would love to "jack up my stats", but my aim is so bad. So I help the team by doing other things that require a less accurate trigger finger...

    -Get mines when they are available to mine up PG or positions you want to defend
    -back cap when skulks are running rampant in your back line
    -jump in the pg with lmg to give my team time to follow as aliens are swarming me

    The game is very rich in strategies and deep (compared to other FPS on the market). There are many things that doesn't seem to make sense until the thought process has been explained. I would like to praise you @Kobe for putting forward something that bothered you, and have others comment on it without it turning it to the usual flame war or complaints thread. The CDT must be doing wonders to our mood in the forums. And congrats to everyone that replied so far for keeping things civil.
  • RaZDaZRaZDaZ Join Date: 2012-11-05 Member: 167331Members, Reinforced - Shadow
    edited June 2014
    These are not inferences, just conjecture. There is no formal basis of reason as to why you assume these are concrete and valid reasons for why people do certain things.

    1) Your assumption is simply based on labelling players as kill-whores when in reality, they could be looking for gorge tunnels (I as marine comm a lot ask one player to scout around our base for tunnels when I need the Tres from scanning). They could be responding to RT harass, they might be attempting to pressure somewhere else, they might try to sneak by to get a PG up, etc.
    2) Don't really see this happening tbh, if people are shooting skulks its not because they want easy kills because they can just kill gorges for that since skulks are much harder to hit when they bounce between structures, the reason is more because they shoot the first thing they see when they get beaconed or a skulk is personally attacking them.
    3) Or they're covering their teammate, good skulks usually wait on the reload of a player attacking an RT.
    4) Again something that is not easy to identify, some players might have a jetpack shotgun while the PG under attack has become a feed gate, not worth the 40res when you could either fly/run there with your equipment and attack from a more favorable position or wait for teammate in order to push through the gate, players who run off probably aren't aware of the attack or already responding to RT harass before the PG attack.
    5) Spawn-locking is sometimes better that upgrade chambers especially solo on a pub server, they are quite tough to kill if they are planted around the hive as it makes you vulnerable to comm jumping out or respawners.
    6) I have never seen this happen other than waiting for a few more marines to arrive to focus fire the tunnel
  • FrankerZFrankerZ Join Date: 2012-05-06 Member: 151627Members
    really, the bigger problem is that there is little incentive to sacrifice your own fun in order to help the team. The same criticism can be applied to people going gorge just because they want to gorge, or people saving for an exo all game, or people ejecting the commander because he didnt get them their favorite thing.

    We might be singling out 1 type of selfish gamer here but there are many others and in the end its just a symptom of the bigger issue that is the lack of incentive to win.
  • deathshrouddeathshroud Join Date: 2010-04-10 Member: 71291Members
    edited June 2014
    the worst are those who quit games when they are up against it for fear of damaging their stats, but have no issues stacking a team and going 30-3 against new players but when they end up randomed on a bad team they quit

    i tend to go against the stack because you learn alot more fighting a tough team than stomping new players
  • Goliath VietnamGoliath Vietnam Join Date: 2013-01-07 Member: 178080Members
    Aliens mostly charge in marine and not defend Resource Tower , got killed and lose territory control area

    Mean while marine put many balls in the Hive basket ( or Bronze candy) :))
  • amoralamoral Join Date: 2013-01-03 Member: 177250Members
    I would love to "jack up my stats", but my aim is so bad. So I help the team by doing other things that require a less accurate trigger finger...

    -Get mines when they are available to mine up PG or positions you want to defend
    -back cap when skulks are running rampant in your back line
    -jump in the pg with lmg to give my team time to follow as aliens are swarming me

    The game is very rich in strategies and deep (compared to other FPS on the market). There are many things that doesn't seem to make sense until the thought process has been explained. I would like to praise you @Kobe for putting forward something that bothered you, and have others comment on it without it turning it to the usual flame war or complaints thread. The CDT must be doing wonders to our mood in the forums. And congrats to everyone that replied so far for keeping things civil.

    <3, your sacrifice will not be in vain brother. remember, though, try and die far away from the gate.

    The job of the first people through a gate, is try and draw the biters away from the meat grinder.
  • NeXuSNeXuS US Join Date: 2013-10-13 Member: 188681Members, NS2 Playtester, Reinforced - Silver, Reinforced - Shadow, Subnautica Playtester
    This is the way i see it. Blaming someone that goes 40-5 and still manages to help the team win is obviously doing something right. Saying they ONLY jack up their stats is completely ludicrous.

    Perhaps instead of blaming or hating what they do and how they do it, you should attempt to emulate to their style of play or at least try to understand why they do certain things in certain scenerios. Use it as a learning experience to increase your level of play.
  • It's Super Effective!It's Super Effective! Join Date: 2012-08-28 Member: 156625Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow
    40-5 can suggest that person is carrying your team. But this is not to say that, that is the only way to contribute to the team. Often the most important players are the ones that ensure the back lines are kept up and maintained so that your team can tech up and win. That attacking player only stems enemy movement and resources, but him alone will not win a game.
  • BobRossTheBossBobRossTheBoss Join Date: 2012-12-31 Member: 176824Members
    I try to avoid big battles because of the hitching. Also fighting in a tight space with a ton of other pub marines can be frustrating even without hitching.
  • Cannon_FodderAUSCannon_FodderAUS Brisbane, AU Join Date: 2013-06-23 Member: 185664Members, Squad Five Blue, Squad Five Silver, Reinforced - Shadow
    amoral wrote: »
    I would love to "jack up my stats", but my aim is so bad. So I help the team by doing other things that require a less accurate trigger finger...

    -Get mines when they are available to mine up PG or positions you want to defend
    -back cap when skulks are running rampant in your back line
    -jump in the pg with lmg to give my team time to follow as aliens are swarming me

    The game is very rich in strategies and deep (compared to other FPS on the market). There are many things that doesn't seem to make sense until the thought process has been explained. I would like to praise you @Kobe for putting forward something that bothered you, and have others comment on it without it turning it to the usual flame war or complaints thread. The CDT must be doing wonders to our mood in the forums. And congrats to everyone that replied so far for keeping things civil.

    <3, your sacrifice will not be in vain brother. remember, though, try and die far away from the gate.

    The job of the first people through a gate, is try and draw the biters away from the meat grinder.

    :)@Amoral if you see my ping on the US servers and see how I play, you will know why I have the handle Cannon_Fodder
  • BlobBlob Join Date: 2013-09-08 Member: 187999Members, Reinforced - Supporter
    the worst are those who quit games when they are up against it for fear of damaging their stats, but have no issues stacking a team and going 30-3 against new players but when they end up randomed on a bad team they quit

    i tend to go against the stack because you learn alot more fighting a tough team than stomping new players

    I've seen it happen the other way around too where a highly skilled player or two goes against the stack to try to help the rookie team causing the stackers in the other team to leave.

    Man this pubstomping issue is sure pretty complicated

    Since, we're on the meat grinder topic...I often get stuck on the PG during a meat grind. Am i jumping through the PG wrongly or am i suppose to spam spacebar or is it just my imagination?
  • NominousNominous Baltimore, MD Join Date: 2012-02-18 Member: 146518Members
    edited June 2014
    Blob wrote: »
    Since, we're on the meat grinder topic...I often get stuck on the PG during a meat grind. Am i jumping through the PG wrongly or am i suppose to spam spacebar or is it just my imagination?
    Afaik, the hitboxes of two or more aliens camping opposite ends of a PG prevent you from moving on a horizontal plane as you phase in. Spamming spacebar is probably the best thing to do if you decide to tackle a meat grinder. If it's just one alien, then you need to remember which side the exit is facing. If the alien is standing opposite of that direction (most likely), then you need to do a side strafe + jump after phasing.
  • 2cough2cough Rocky Mountain High Join Date: 2013-03-14 Member: 183952Members, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Supporter
    Blob wrote: »
    Since, we're on the meat grinder topic...I often get stuck on the PG during a meat grind. Am i jumping through the PG wrongly or am i suppose to spam spacebar or is it just my imagination?
    spam space and forward and hope there's some meds waiting for you. If you cant move, the aliens were just on point.

    BTW I know most people who might read this already know, but BITE THE BLUE SIDES OF PG (broad side), not the narrow sides, for a grinder this does not make.
  • RapGodRapGod Not entirely sure... Join Date: 2013-11-12 Member: 189322Members
  • NotPaLaGiNotPaLaGi Join Date: 2014-05-29 Member: 196291Members
    edited June 2014
    I think this thread is a good example of how difficult this game is to understand. The OP can spectate good players and easily draw the wrong conclusions about what is happening. Most won't even go this far. Perhaps if he watched some competitive matches or advanced tutorials, he might have a different take on what he sees, but it would still take alot of experience and effort.

    About a year ago, I really considered streaming lots of pub games and calling it "NS2 Pubbing: Commentary on Where I go and What I do" and literally just talk about my thought process as I play the game and the decisions I make. I think it would be eye opening for alot of pub players that it's not all just spawn killing and lucky shots but mainly being able to read the map and being prepared for the correct situation at the correct time.
  • SantaClawsSantaClaws Denmark Join Date: 2012-07-31 Member: 154491Members, Reinforced - Shadow
    @NotPaLaGi Bitey did do a little bit of that, and it was alright. Unfortunately he hated pubs so much that it never really became a thing.
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