Stacking?

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  • VengaboyVengaboy The Swamp Join Date: 2013-08-24 Member: 187053Members, Reinforced - Shadow Posts: 60 Advanced user
    Vengaboy wrote: »
    Vengaboy wrote: »
    MuckyMcFly wrote: »
    I have to say the badges thing is quite funny, since all that shows is people have far too much money :)

    Donating to the development team that created the most unique gaming experience ever IMO means I have far too much money? Mmmm no. It means I enjoy this game so much that i'm willing to support it using the money I worked hard to earn. However, donating thousands of dollars to Spike Lee's movie kickstarter for a film that hasn't been made yet... that's a sucker with far too much money looking for recognition. Direct your snarky opinions that way, not toward members of a community that you yourself are a part of.

    So, by your logic, peope who supported NS2 with their preorders when it was just a concept are also idiots?
    If you're going to argue at least try to make it resonable.

    You missed the entire point of my post but that's ok, reading is hard. The "hasn't been made yet" part of my comment wasn't the reason I used it as an example of money being wasted. It was the fact that Spike Lee was actually using kickstarter to fund his next project. Maybe you're too young or uncultured to know who that is or why it's ridiculous for him to use kickstarter but the people who do will understand why I took the opportunity to attack him. It was a very VERY specific comment directed only at the subjects I mentioned. It has nothing to do with funding projects that are still in early development. I applaud the people who pre-ordered NS2 and others who continue to support UWE through cash donations.

    Also, -*reasonable*- but that's ok, spelling is hard.

    Seeing as I'm not a native speaker of English and wrote that from a phone, yeah spelling can get pretty tricky.
    I won't even bother addressing the rest of your comment because you clearly missed the point of mine. Bottom line though, you tend to justify your opinion by attacking someone be it me or Spike Lee or whoever else might come to mind. In my book that mostly disqualifies anything you have to say. Seeing how Spike seems to be a hot topic with you, maybe you'd like to take your grievances over to his twitter or something he might actually see as I doubt he browses these forums.

    Lets not derail this thread any further.

    It was a joke dude... a joke about Spike Lee... not some psychological puzzle. There's no "opinion" that's being "justified" by it at all. If you want to spew generic terms that make no real reference to what somebody actually said go to the comments section of youtube. I was merely defending UWE supporters like myself with a reason, not an opinion, and used the opportunity to throw in a joke at the expense of a celebrity. I realize you feel obligated to retort after I explain your own confusion to you on a public forum but please... let it go.
  • amoralamoral Join Date: 2013-01-03 Member: 177250Members Posts: 1,331 Advanced user
    I think Shine administration already does this, but even so, Random never solved anything.

    I've been encouraging a more civil approach, but it requires the cooperation of all players. Do team captains, with the two best players as captains. Or, choose 2 rookies who don't know who is who.

    choosing by two rookies would essentially be a slower vote random.
    halfofaheavenAurOn2
  • amoralamoral Join Date: 2013-01-03 Member: 177250Members Posts: 1,331 Advanced user
    Vengaboy wrote: »
    Vengaboy wrote: »
    Vengaboy wrote: »
    MuckyMcFly wrote: »
    I have to say the badges thing is quite funny, since all that shows is people have far too much money :)

    Donating to the development team that created the most unique gaming experience ever IMO means I have far too much money? Mmmm no. It means I enjoy this game so much that i'm willing to support it using the money I worked hard to earn. However, donating thousands of dollars to Spike Lee's movie kickstarter for a film that hasn't been made yet... that's a sucker with far too much money looking for recognition. Direct your snarky opinions that way, not toward members of a community that you yourself are a part of.

    So, by your logic, peope who supported NS2 with their preorders when it was just a concept are also idiots?
    If you're going to argue at least try to make it resonable.

    You missed the entire point of my post but that's ok, reading is hard. The "hasn't been made yet" part of my comment wasn't the reason I used it as an example of money being wasted. It was the fact that Spike Lee was actually using kickstarter to fund his next project. Maybe you're too young or uncultured to know who that is or why it's ridiculous for him to use kickstarter but the people who do will understand why I took the opportunity to attack him. It was a very VERY specific comment directed only at the subjects I mentioned. It has nothing to do with funding projects that are still in early development. I applaud the people who pre-ordered NS2 and others who continue to support UWE through cash donations.

    Also, -*reasonable*- but that's ok, spelling is hard.

    Seeing as I'm not a native speaker of English and wrote that from a phone, yeah spelling can get pretty tricky.
    I won't even bother addressing the rest of your comment because you clearly missed the point of mine. Bottom line though, you tend to justify your opinion by attacking someone be it me or Spike Lee or whoever else might come to mind. In my book that mostly disqualifies anything you have to say. Seeing how Spike seems to be a hot topic with you, maybe you'd like to take your grievances over to his twitter or something he might actually see as I doubt he browses these forums.

    Lets not derail this thread any further.

    It was a joke dude... a joke about Spike Lee... not some psychological puzzle. There's no "opinion" that's being "justified" by it at all. If you want to spew generic terms that make no real reference to what somebody actually said go to the comments section of youtube. I was merely defending UWE supporters like myself with a reason, not an opinion, and used the opportunity to throw in a joke at the expense of a celebrity. I realize you feel obligated to retort after I explain your own confusion to you on a public forum but please... let it go.

    you mean academy award nominated, and Peabody award winning director spike lee?
    RapGod
  • BensonBenson Join Date: 2012-03-07 Member: 148303Members, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow Posts: 1,296 Advanced user
    I really hope that once the skill system is refined, the official random vote will balance for this skill
    If we are to be damned, let us be damned for what we really are. - Capt. Jean Luc Picard
  • halfofaheavenhalfofaheaven Join Date: 2012-11-09 Member: 168660Members, Reinforced - Supporter, Reinforced - Gold Posts: 425 Fully active user
    Benson wrote: »
    I really hope that once the skill system is refined, the official random vote will balance for this skill
    Thing is, you can't put a number on game sense or communication skills and many other important factors.

    There are also a lot of people who counter-stack nearly every game and as a result have an average or worse hive score, when in reality they could be one of the best players you could have on your team.

    The only skill/ranking system that could work would be if players were able to rate other players anonymously and that got factored into the rating somehow. Although I guess that could end up a disaster as well so there would have to be a ton of thought behind it...
  • xen32xen32 Join Date: 2012-10-18 Member: 162676Members, Reinforced - Supporter Posts: 1,011 Advanced user
    UWE needs to implement /unstack command
    RapGod
  • RoobubbaRoobubba Who you gonna call? Join Date: 2003-01-06 Member: 11930Members, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow Posts: 3,191 Fully active user
    On a server yesterday, I commanded one round as marines to a stomping victory (mostly rookies, no recognisably *decent* players on either team, just terrible coordination from aliens led to their loss). Then on the next round I went alien, a new player joined who also has a few badges and he was randomed to alien (I don't know the guy). We both did well (20 or 30 kills to 1 or 2 deaths or so) and worked together with the team to another win. During this round, one of the players who was on my marine winning team the previous round raged half way through complaining that 'the same two players are stacking every round.'

    The only response to that was 'lol wut?,' frankly.
    I left the server after that round was done as it was clearly not a non-rookie server as advertised :/
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  • Ghosthree3Ghosthree3 Join Date: 2010-02-13 Member: 70557Members, Reinforced - Supporter Posts: 3,432 Advanced user
    People have goldfish memories.
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  • MuckyMcFlyMuckyMcFly Join Date: 2012-03-19 Member: 148982Members, Reinforced - Supporter, Reinforced - Shadow Posts: 616 Fully active user
    First off I meant zero offense to the people who continue to contribute to NS2, I merely wanted to point out that badges do not always necessarily equal high skill (myself included) - I for one put my hand in my pocket before a line of code was written so I obviously have nothing but love for UWE and the community so I apologize.


    Do you think a "vote random all" option would help? So even when people have joined teams they get taken into the mix?


    [Cult]MartyMcFly - Yo!Clan Regular - Player of Real-Lifeâ„¢
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  • Ghosthree3Ghosthree3 Join Date: 2010-02-13 Member: 70557Members, Reinforced - Supporter Posts: 3,432 Advanced user
    That would very much frustrate me if I've already chosen a team. Maybe I don't WANT to play the other side (I'm not saying I want to play with X people or not with Y people, I mean I might want to play marines but not aliens or vice versa).
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    RapGodB3rT
  • amoralamoral Join Date: 2013-01-03 Member: 177250Members Posts: 1,331 Advanced user
    MuckyMcFly wrote: »
    First off I meant zero offense to the people who continue to contribute to NS2, I merely wanted to point out that badges do not always necessarily equal high skill (myself included) - I for one put my hand in my pocket before a line of code was written so I obviously have nothing but love for UWE and the community so I apologize.


    Do you think a "vote random all" option would help? So even when people have joined teams they get taken into the mix?

    it doesn't mean more skill, but it does denote a certain. level of enthusiasm. im not convinced that there isn't some statistical correlation between badges and ski through enthusiasm.
  • Ghosthree3Ghosthree3 Join Date: 2010-02-13 Member: 70557Members, Reinforced - Supporter Posts: 3,432 Advanced user
    I think it's important to say that I'm now days seeing calls off stacking in ALL games I play. Battlefield, LoL etc. Quake too but that's legit stacks. People seem to have just become whiny.
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    meatmachine
  • AmbAmb Join Date: 2012-11-09 Member: 168647Members, Reinforced - Supporter Posts: 317 Fully active user
    edited January 2014
    Ghosthree3 wrote: »
    I think it's important to say that I'm now days seeing calls off stacking in ALL games I play. Battlefield, LoL etc. Quake too but that's legit stacks. People seem to have just become whiny.

    "omfg, where's my med pack?" <- That type of whiny?<br>
    xD
  • Know painKnow pain Join Date: 2012-09-04 Member: 157674Members Posts: 510 Fully active user
    Stacking is governed by the rules of the servers you play on and enforced by the admins there.
    Hakuna Ma-ta-ta
  • MuckyMcFlyMuckyMcFly Join Date: 2012-03-19 Member: 148982Members, Reinforced - Supporter, Reinforced - Shadow Posts: 616 Fully active user
    People say stacking, I just see a challenge that if conquered will result in a warm fuzzy feeling :)


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  • IdlerayIdleray Join Date: 2012-10-04 Member: 161464Members, Reinforced - Shadow Posts: 154 Advanced user
    the decreased quality of gameplay experience caused by "stacking" is real, and is especially prominent whenever there is an influx of rookies following a sale, because rookies don't yet have a concept of who is good and which team to join.

    Stacking can only be counter-acted if the devs do something. Relying on the co-operation of players in a server is never going to be a real solution, and I do agree sometimes with peoples sentiment that it kills the game. Nothing empties out a server faster than a map-change after a really stacked game in which the losing team has an awful time getting repeatedly killed/camped while people won't concede.
    RapGod
  • meatmachinemeatmachine South England Join Date: 2013-01-06 Member: 177858Members, NS2 Playtester, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Supporter Posts: 1,551 Advanced user
    Currently issue (related)

    RESET - The vast majority of people will vote for a reset when teams are imba, thinking that a reset with the same teams will fix anything. There should totes be a Vote to Shuffle & reset
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    Ghosthree3current1yPaajtor
  • Ghosthree3Ghosthree3 Join Date: 2010-02-13 Member: 70557Members, Reinforced - Supporter Posts: 3,432 Advanced user
    Yeah reset is a useless vote. In private games an admin can reset a false start or w/e. In public games it just causes the same stacked round to play again, better letting it just end.
    76561197996992409.png
  • amoralamoral Join Date: 2013-01-03 Member: 177250Members Posts: 1,331 Advanced user
    Ghosthree3 wrote: »
    Yeah reset is a useless vote. In private games an admin can reset a false start or w/e. In public games it just causes the same stacked round to play again, better letting it just end.

    I've seen resets lead to pretty good games, usually when one team starts without a comm in the chair, or a new player hops in and out to start the game without knowing how disastrous that is, or when the server fills up from 8 people to 18 over the course of the early game. or base rush cheese, and the team that's crippled knows they can't get away with not covering their lanes.
    B3rTIronHorse
  • MestaritonttuMestaritonttu Join Date: 2004-07-29 Member: 30229Members, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Gold Posts: 1,194
    Ghosthree3 wrote: »
    Yeah reset is a useless vote. In private games an admin can reset a false start or w/e. In public games it just causes the same stacked round to play again, better letting it just end.

    Nope it's useful occasionally when something goes awry in start even tho teams were good.

    This thread seems a huge mishmash of things.

    The only instance of using "stacking" "wrong" that I've seen is when people say "stacking marines" when everyone wants to join marines. They don't mean the people joining are making the game imbalanced, just that everyone is "stacking to join marines" because they want to. It gets a bit confusing that way.

    Other than that, if someone calls out stacking when there's really no stacking you just refer to the scores and agree or disagree. I haven't seen anyone call stacking when there's no proof in scores for it.
    image
  • amoralamoral Join Date: 2013-01-03 Member: 177250Members Posts: 1,331 Advanced user
    Ghosthree3 wrote: »
    Yeah reset is a useless vote. In private games an admin can reset a false start or w/e. In public games it just causes the same stacked round to play again, better letting it just end.

    Nope it's useful occasionally when something goes awry in start even tho teams were good.

    This thread seems a huge mishmash of things.

    The only instance of using "stacking" "wrong" that I've seen is when people say "stacking marines" when everyone wants to join marines. They don't mean the people joining are making the game imbalanced, just that everyone is "stacking to join marines" because they want to. It gets a bit confusing that way.

    Other than that, if someone calls out stacking when there's really no stacking you just refer to the scores and agree or disagree. I haven't seen anyone call stacking when there's no proof in scores for it.

    even then, skill discrepancies tend to exaggerate score discrepancies. Snowball effect and 2-2 marines vs vanilla skulks. So it might appear to be skill stacking even if the teams are relatively even because they are in actuality not even. The same way that one great player can boost the k/d of an entire mediocre team, because they can accelerate upgrade inequality.
  • KhyronKhyron Join Date: 2012-02-02 Member: 143308Members Posts: 498 Advanced user
    1. A god-like, hero player... racks up a crazy k/d ratio...If they are alien they go lerk or fade, and as marine they go shotgun/jetpack.
    It's an age old problem with NS2. A highly skilled fade or lerk will dominate the mid game unless there are multiple equally skilled marines. In the late game, a highly skilled jp/sg will render the skulk lifeform redundant and seriously neuter the effectiveness of lerks and fades.

    Let's say a given server has 4 people at the highest skill levels and they evenly split between marines and aliens. Each team is commanded by one of the skilled players leaving one skilled marine and one skilled alien. Aliens win that round because the lerk/fade picks off all the other newbies on the marine team without needing to engage the skilled marine. I've witnessed hundreds of games play out like that.
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  • joshhhjoshhh Milwaukee, WI Join Date: 2011-06-21 Member: 105717Members, NS2 Playtester, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Supporter, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow, Subnautica Playtester Posts: 1,437 Advanced user
    Ghosthree3 wrote: »
    Yeah reset is a useless vote. In private games an admin can reset a false start or w/e. In public games it just causes the same stacked round to play again, better letting it just end.

    Reset isn't completely a useless vote. It comes in handy when a server admin isn't present... ie pugs and such. Anyway, the 'shuffle and reset' would be much more beneficial for public games. Also as Mestaritonttu said, it is occasionally used in pubs as well.

    Things I can see that would help fix stacking:
    1. Removal of the public facing side of hive stats. Users should NOT be able to see their rank or score.
    This removes the stat whoring and stacking to ensure the win. Don't really understand why it was ever made public.
    2. Matchmaking
    Will help remove some of the higher skilled players from the pub scene

    Aside from those, nothing will really help.
    Roobubba
  • Ghosthree3Ghosthree3 Join Date: 2010-02-13 Member: 70557Members, Reinforced - Supporter Posts: 3,432 Advanced user
    I still think the best method is well managed community servers that players find to suit their skill needs.
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  • VengaboyVengaboy The Swamp Join Date: 2013-08-24 Member: 187053Members, Reinforced - Shadow Posts: 60 Advanced user
    MuckyMcFly wrote: »
    People say stacking, I just see a challenge that if conquered will result in a warm fuzzy feeling :)

    This is how I feel. People need to be more optomisitc whent they face a challenge. There is definitely a point in almost every game when you know it's a lost cause but people typically give up long before this. I wish that wasn't the case but it is. I've seen numerous comebacks after a game is thought to be over. Sometimes that's due to certain players quitting mid game and others joining which changes the balance but this is one example of why a game isn't always over when you think it is. Keep playing. Keep fighting. Even if people start voting to concede, please keep fighting. Anything can happen - cliche but so so true with NS2.
    MuckyMcFly
  • ZEROibisZEROibis Join Date: 2009-10-30 Member: 69176Members, Constellation Posts: 1,017 Advanced user
    I don't always lose, but when I do it is because the other team is stacked...
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  • RapGodRapGod Not entirely sure... Join Date: 2013-11-12 Member: 189322Members Posts: 799 Fully active user
    ZEROibis wrote: »
    I don't always lose, but when I do it is because the other team is stacked...

    stack carefully, my friends.
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  • amoralamoral Join Date: 2013-01-03 Member: 177250Members Posts: 1,331 Advanced user
    Vengaboy wrote: »
    MuckyMcFly wrote: »
    People say stacking, I just see a challenge that if conquered will result in a warm fuzzy feeling :)

    This is how I feel. People need to be more optomisitc whent they face a challenge. There is definitely a point in almost every game when you know it's a lost cause but people typically give up long before this. I wish that wasn't the case but it is. I've seen numerous comebacks after a game is thought to be over. Sometimes that's due to certain players quitting mid game and others joining which changes the balance but this is one example of why a game isn't always over when you think it is. Keep playing. Keep fighting. Even if people start voting to concede, please keep fighting. Anything can happen - cliche but so so true with NS2.


    I usually vote concede when it's pretty dire. like assuming the other team doesn't have some massive stroke, or massively f up. I think my judgment is pretty sound. sure I've seen people try to vote concede whenon equal res, but given enough experience, people tend to know when a game is inevitable outside a miracle. sometimes if the other team had something exploitable in their defense, we wouldn't be losing in the first place.
  • MuckyMcFlyMuckyMcFly Join Date: 2012-03-19 Member: 148982Members, Reinforced - Supporter, Reinforced - Shadow Posts: 616 Fully active user
    In NS2 the smallest thing can swing a game, keep fighting till the bitter depressing end heehee. God I love this game! <3


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  • amoralamoral Join Date: 2013-01-03 Member: 177250Members Posts: 1,331 Advanced user
    MuckyMcFly wrote: »
    In NS2 the smallest thing can swing a game, keep fighting till the bitter depressing end heehee. God I love this game! <3</div>

    ... sometimes i just think to myself, if my team could shoot skulks... we wouldn't be in the situation of my team not being able to shoot faster skulks with more life.
    BicsumAurOn2
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