All The World To Play For - Natural Selection 2

2

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  • NeXuSNeXuS USMembers, NS2 Playtester, Reinforced - Silver, Reinforced - Shadow, Subnautica Playtester Join Date: 2013-10-13 Member: 188681Posts: 401 Fully active user
    edited January 2014
    Blind is gonna be casting the WC along with RedDog and Wasabi. So, sorry if you don't like his commentating. Get over it. He'll be here a while.

    Oh, and first person view is broken in spectate right now. FYI
  • rantologyrantology Members, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Gold, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Gold Join Date: 2012-02-05 Member: 143750Posts: 1,493 Advanced user
    edited January 2014
    NeXuS wrote: »
    Oh, and first person view is broken in spectate right now. FYI

    pretty sure it's like that on purpose in the NSL mod to avoid abuse of a certain bug.

    image
  • NeXuSNeXuS USMembers, NS2 Playtester, Reinforced - Silver, Reinforced - Shadow, Subnautica Playtester Join Date: 2013-10-13 Member: 188681Posts: 401 Fully active user
    edited January 2014
    Exactly, rantology.
    Post edited by NeXuS on
  • halfofaheavenhalfofaheaven Members, Reinforced - Supporter, Reinforced - Gold Join Date: 2012-11-09 Member: 168660Posts: 425 Fully active user
    blind is an excellent caster and rarely ever analyses anything incorrectly or says anything I disagree with.

    I like RedDog and he's an entertaining caster/person, but Wasabi and him constantly make fools of themselves for clearly not understanding the game on remotely the level required to properly analyse and criticise gameplay.

    The best casts by far have been RedDog and blind co-casting. Please make sure that's the casting lineup for the finals.
    Blarney_StoneCannon_FodderAUSAndroid88
  • RaZDaZRaZDaZ Members, Reinforced - Shadow Join Date: 2012-11-05 Member: 167331Posts: 465 Fully active user
    edited January 2014
    I'm not trying to put down Wasabi and Reddog, I love their casting and their personalities and I'm sure they know a lot on the competitive scene but I honestly believe they need to tone down or rephrase their critical commentary because it just comes off as bashing the players most of the time especially in situations when the players don't have the information to make calls and decisions decisively. Not saying it's all negative but it is a heavy amount.

    There needs to be some critical commentary yes and not play-by-play 24/7 but you can't simply criticize players in that way, it needs to be done properly. As I've mentioned in my previous post, SC2 only has a few commentators that pull it off really well because they aren't negative in the way they say it. Casters like Artosis, Apollo and Day9 come to mind.

    NS2 ID: RaZDaZ
    Old School AvP2 Vet
  • Blarney_StoneBlarney_Stone Members, Reinforced - Shadow Join Date: 2013-03-08 Member: 183808Posts: 1,037
    The best casting lineup is RedDog doing play-by-play calls and Blind doing color commentary and critical analysis. This is the lineup that should be used in the finals to guarantee the event is a success.
    if it keeps on raining the levee's going to break
    RaZDaZshriikehalfofaheaven
  • RaZDaZRaZDaZ Members, Reinforced - Shadow Join Date: 2012-11-05 Member: 167331Posts: 465 Fully active user
    The best casting lineup is RedDog doing play-by-play calls and Blind doing color commentary and critical analysis. This is the lineup that should be used in the finals to guarantee the event is a success.

    Totally agree on this. Reddog is awesome at doing play-by-play. The best combinations are the Analysts and the Play-by-Play casting together. The best casting duo in SC2, Artosis and Tasteless work like this.
    NS2 ID: RaZDaZ
    Old School AvP2 Vet
  • CCTEECCTEE Members, Reinforced - Shadow Join Date: 2013-06-20 Member: 185634Posts: 772 Advanced user
    Shall we do a poll?
    grrrr im beast
  • HivelordHivelord Members, Reinforced - Shadow Join Date: 2003-06-21 Member: 17567Posts: 140 Fully active user
    Am I the only one around here who is completed stumped that there is no 1st person sec? This is an FPS game, I could not care less about the top-level view. Even having the camera down on the map would be better.
    E t e r n o . n z
    meatmachine
  • TheriusTherius Members, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Supporter Join Date: 2009-03-06 Member: 66642Posts: 750 Advanced user
    Hivelord wrote: »
    Am I the only one around here who is completed stumped that there is no 1st person sec? This is an FPS game, I could not care less about the top-level view. Even having the camera down on the map would be better.

    Perhaps not the only one, but probably in a tiny majority when it comes to people who actively play NS2. The overview is where it's at, everything else leads to a confusing mess. From the overview you can see positioning, the hp of the participants, possible reinforcements and cut-offs, all of which are as or more important than aim in an engagement.

    halfofaheavenAioros
  • joshhhjoshhh Milwaukee, WIMembers, NS2 Playtester, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Supporter, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow, Subnautica Playtester Join Date: 2011-06-21 Member: 105717Posts: 1,437 Advanced user
    Hivelord wrote: »
    Am I the only one around here who is completed stumped that there is no 1st person sec? This is an FPS game, I could not care less about the top-level view. Even having the camera down on the map would be better.

    During the finals, there probably will be some first person... just dont quote me on that.

    There is a reason casters do not do it currently which has to do with a bug in the game that affects actual player game play if someone specs them and meets certain criteria. Until that bug is fixed, you will not see much first person during casts. Either way, there is so much going on in a NS2 match that utilizing a lot of first person would hurt the overall spectating experience and understanding on what is happening all over the map.
    IronHorse
  • shriikeshriike Members Join Date: 2013-03-27 Member: 184461Posts: 191 Fully active user
    The best casting lineup is RedDog doing play-by-play calls and Blind doing color commentary and critical analysis. This is the lineup that should be used in the finals to guarantee the event is a success.
    And then bitey for comedy.
    "Let's get him shrike." - Hugh (Strayan).
    /watch?list=UU0olBsiE9mI2Wf1xdyS1x3A&feature=player_detailpage&v=shD3_ArPL04#t=210s

    "This skulk is very good. He was moving around a lot." "Damn he's just moving around so well." "I'm not actually gonna stay here or else he'll kill me." - Hugh (Strayan).
    /watch?feature=player_detailpage&list=UU0olBsiE9mI2Wf1xdyS1x3A&v=WtBF-O1qrQY#t=53s
  • WasabiOneWasabiOne Co-Lead NS2 CDT Members, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Gold, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Supporter, Reinforced - Silver, Reinforced - Gold, Reinforced - Diamond, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow, Subnautica Playtester, Pistachionauts Join Date: 2011-06-15 Member: 104623Posts: 758 Advanced user
    1st person spec will be enabled for use in the live finals, it was disabled due to a high ping bug that created more problems for individual players. Blind, Reddog and Myself will be handling all of the casting duties throughout the broadcast. Suggestions like the some below about things you would like to see or hear are gratefully appreciated. please feel free to send suggestions through the www.ns2wc.com website so that Reddog can work to incorporate them.

    Thank you again to all the viewers, players, refs, casters, etc... for your time and support of the NS2WC. We look forward to bringing you a truly exciting and entertaining event in Feb.
    SupaFred
  • male_fatalitiesmale_fatalities ausns2.org Members, Constellation Join Date: 2004-03-06 Member: 27185Posts: 673 Fully active user
    edited January 2014
    I gotta admit, when I watch wasabi / reddog / whoever's stream I normally mute the cast as most of the comments made are with very little understanding. It's very apparent to a seasoned competitive player that these 'comments' are from someone who might watch alot of competitive games, but do not play in them.

    My favourite comment is single marines dieing in a position like hub while a split push occurs. They straight away point out that marines should never be solo, but don't seem to realize that they are route blocking due to no obs / no mines in spawn ect. That marines job was to die, delay, scout, deny paths to marine natural RT's and a multitude of things.

    Or single marine pushing an alien RT, not realising its a baiting technique designed to draw the alien pack into defense while the real push is occuring on the other side of the map.

    However, these guys do a great job to their main target audience (the casual gamer). So kudos for their work, but when they make comments on premier level decision making / positioning, the mute key is applied.

    NS1: Boost|. mf
    NS2: asc . mf-
    Ghosthree3vartija
  • MrFangsMrFangs Members, Reinforced - Shadow Join Date: 2013-03-27 Member: 184474Posts: 313 Fully active user
    edited January 2014
    I like the commentator being judgmental. I don't care for "x is doing y" etc that I can see on the screen for myself - I want to see a debate provoked.

    In principle, I agree with you. On the other hand, NS2 is such a fast-paced game already that I don't know if the casters going too deep into "what if" scenarios, and discussing contrasting positions wouldn't be overwhelming for most viewers.

    That being said, there were a few times in the Saunamen vs. iMagine matches where Wasabi said something controversial ("Aliens should go straight for Control" etc.), and Reddog just answered with a neutral "uh-huh". I think he was trying to be respectful there, but I would have liked it better if he had gone forward with "nah, I don't think so, *because*...". But that's just a minor detail, and I also understand that American vs. European culture is different in that point.

    All in all, I really enjoyed watching Sunday's games, and I think both Blind and Wasabi/Reddog did an amazing job of casting them. For a non-competitive player with an interest in commanding, there's always something new to pick up about strategy and the metagame from their commentary.
    Post edited by MrFangs on
  • MrFangsMrFangs Members, Reinforced - Shadow Join Date: 2013-03-27 Member: 184474Posts: 313 Fully active user
    Something I'd like to add: I really liked Blind giving his overview of basic strategies on Veil, and how they have evolved over time. I knew the individual spots, moves, and openings, but hearing how they developed from each other was quite interesting.
  • trinity.nstrinity.ns Members, Reinforced - Shadow Join Date: 2008-12-07 Member: 65688Posts: 137 Advanced user
    Why did you put them all into one weekend? Imo that was poorly planned...
    Think outside the box? Burn the goddamned box!
  • Ren26Ren26 Members Join Date: 2013-06-30 Member: 185811Posts: 60
    Some cool discussion in here.

    I agree with the point about a combination like Reddog/Blind.

    Reddog knows the game really well now, and he can maintain the excitement of a game throughout a multiple hour cast. Once combat is done he can pass it off to Blind where we can hear about the overall macro-management and how each team is doing in a top down sense.

    Also they trust each others abilities, so they aren't competing to say things, and there aren't awkward interuptions.

    The Saunaman Imagine game this Sunday was great, but Reddog and Wasabi tend to cover similar topics. This can cause flow issues (there was some interrupting and double casting at times!) so that's something that can impact a cast as well.

    This is why I generally prefer to run my casts alone, or with someone I know can fill the gaps I will leave. When I co-cast, I tend to fill gaps, as apposed to what I would do on my channel.
    twitch.tv/ren26 for ns2 casts
    Blarney_Stone
  • halfofaheavenhalfofaheaven Members, Reinforced - Supporter, Reinforced - Gold Join Date: 2012-11-09 Member: 168660Posts: 425 Fully active user
    Ren26 wrote: »
    Reddog [...] can maintain the excitement of a game throughout a multiple hour cast. Once combat is done he can pass it off to Blind where we can hear about the overall macro-management and how each team is doing in a top down sense.

    Also they trust each others abilities, so they aren't competing to say things, and there aren't awkward interuptions.
    I agree for the most part. RedDog and blind bounce off each other really well, and blind does intentionally not correct RD whenever he says anything he disagrees with.

    Every time Wasabi and blind casted together, multiple times blind would be doing analysis or critique and Wasabi would completely ignore what he said and go straight back into play-by-play, often even interrupting blind. It seems like he has the personality and charisma to be a caster, but not the attention span or, let's say, professionalism.

    Anyway, the three of them have one and a half months to prepare and work on their casting, so I'm sure it'll be a great event.



    Blarney_StoneAsraniel
  • joshhhjoshhh Milwaukee, WIMembers, NS2 Playtester, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Supporter, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow, Subnautica Playtester Join Date: 2011-06-21 Member: 105717Posts: 1,437 Advanced user
    Both Reddog and Wasabi are extremely high energy people... so when they both get really excited they tend to talk over each other occasionally. Having multiple casters is often the better option, regardless of their game knowledge. Even the best casters can't focus on the entire map at once.

    Analyzing matches during a cast becomes incrementally more difficult in the higher divisions. Most of the time, commanders make on the fly decisions that make no sense to anyone who doesn't see the opening/opportunity that forced this call. Then again, there are other elements of the game that MF listed such as route blocking that casters should be able to identify.

    Either way, I feel that the current list of casters will do fine in the live event. At least be happy we don't have Hugh casting. No offense to Hugh but I am pretty sure he would be a bit rusty understanding the comp scene after being away for so long.
    halfofaheaven
  • halfofaheavenhalfofaheaven Members, Reinforced - Supporter, Reinforced - Gold Join Date: 2012-11-09 Member: 168660Posts: 425 Fully active user
  • GORGEousGORGEous Members, NS2 Map Tester Join Date: 2012-02-19 Member: 146762Posts: 1,461 Advanced user
    trinity.ns wrote: »
    Why did you put them all into one weekend? Imo that was poorly planned...

    That is the way it worked out with the holidays. Most teams couldn't field 6 until that weekend. And the quarterfinals needed to be played ASAP to remain within budget on airplane tickets.
    image
  • MestaritonttuMestaritonttu Members, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Gold Join Date: 2004-07-29 Member: 30229Posts: 1,194
    Imagine if the casters could take the game into a split screen skulk/marine view when a 1vs1 starts. That'd be an entertaining angle. Lame pun is lame.
    image
    BensonMrFangs
  • VetinariVetinari Members, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Silver Join Date: 2013-07-23 Member: 186325Posts: 3,469 Advanced user
    Jeez, I should start to watch at least the quarter finals. I'm going to attend the live event and have no idea what happened...
    formerly known as F0rdPrefect

    I am good Onos
  • EißfeldtEißfeldt Members Join Date: 2012-08-15 Member: 155658Posts: 58 Fully active user
    Jeez, I should start to watch at least the quarter finals. I'm going to attend the live event and have no idea what happened...

    You should start with Saunamen vs Imagine since it was by far the most entertaining match to watch.

    And in my opinion http://www.twitch.tv/ren26 did the best job casting the quarter finals.
    CCTEEMendaspVetinari
  • Ren26Ren26 Members Join Date: 2013-06-30 Member: 185811Posts: 60
    Eißfeldt wrote: »
    Jeez, I should start to watch at least the quarter finals. I'm going to attend the live event and have no idea what happened...

    You should start with Saunamen vs Imagine since it was by far the most entertaining match to watch.

    And in my opinion http://www.twitch.tv/ren26 did the best job casting the quarter finals.

    "If I have seen further than others, I have stood on the shoulders of giants"!

    Thanks though, but I wouldn't have the knowledge or viewers without people like reddog's hard work.
    twitch.tv/ren26 for ns2 casts
  • blindblind Members, Squad Five Gold Join Date: 2010-04-17 Member: 71437Posts: 341 Advanced user
    Thanks for the feedback, always appreciated. Kinda true that I was too much into analytical mood that day, usually I try to balance that better. Guess it's obvious that I enjoy the color commentary alongside with a good play-by-play caster. Comes alongside with my personal taste when I spectate e-sports myself, for example I prefer Artosis' comments any day over Tasteless' while both are excellent as a duo.
    (E)NSL Head admin

    NS2 YouTube Channel - http://www.youtube.com/blindNS
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    Twitter - @blindns2 Steam Community Group - blind's Livestream Events
    halfofaheavenBlarney_StoneAurOn2
  • AiorosAioros Members, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow Join Date: 2003-03-24 Member: 14850Posts: 256
    If you talk to much about strats and movement, most of the viewers do not undestand a single word you say. If you explain it more simple, people who understand all that stuff feel kinda trolled.
    Its rather diffcult to find the spot between explaining tactics, overall play and being an entertainer.
    trinity.ns wrote: »
    Why did you put them all into one weekend? Imo that was poorly planned...
    like GORGEous said, Holidays and the budget made it rather diffcult to play on another weekend.

    But feel free to organize something similar and let people play all that on diffrent weekends.
  • RaZDaZRaZDaZ Members, Reinforced - Shadow Join Date: 2012-11-05 Member: 167331Posts: 465 Fully active user
    edited January 2014
    blind wrote: »
    Thanks for the feedback, always appreciated. Kinda true that I was too much into analytical mood that day, usually I try to balance that better. Guess it's obvious that I enjoy the color commentary alongside with a good play-by-play caster. Comes alongside with my personal taste when I spectate e-sports myself, for example I prefer Artosis' comments any day over Tasteless' while both are excellent as a duo.

    Exactly this. Artosis provides the analysis and most insightful commentary and is arguably the best SC2 commentator for that while Tasteless is a superb play-by-play and announcer. A combination that when done right is fantastic for viewers regardless of the knowledge they have of the competitive scene because the analysis is good for the experienced and dedicated viewers while the play-by-play suits a more casual audience. I'd love to see NS2 commentators go this route.

    Also Blind, I love your insight into the strategies on each map as you did with Snails vs retiring match, please keep doing that :)
    NS2 ID: RaZDaZ
    Old School AvP2 Vet
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