I literally built a server today from 0 people to 24, and watched it fall back to 0 within 2 hours due to players skill stacking every game for 6 rounds. It's sickening and frustrating. And this has become a daily thing, maybe not to this extreme, but it is a consistent and constant issue daily!
At least all I see is confirmation, but no other solution than admins babysitting. I trully believe that using K:D as a balance is a good place to start.
There aren't too many games I play where people maliciously stack teams just to be dicks. I prefer games where people of even skills are each side and the games can last a while and maybe go back and forth. But at the same time if you're a decent player and you keep ending up on a team that is pretty clueless against 1 or more players that do have some idea how to play it can get very frustrating because you just want to at least have a chance to win one game. So like scardy said, generally good admins make things better as does picking team captains and that kind of junk. Wouldn't mind if someone made a mod that allowed someone to be designated as comm ahead of time and then they could pick teams back and forth with the other comm. Random works sometimes too.
Ive seen people cry about stacks when 1 comp. player joins marines over and over.... and if 2 join its a mega stack..... I am sorry but its not really always stacked. It's the fact that in pub's no one really understands the game. So when you get 2 guys that work as a team (oh shit i said team....) they rape the other team.
Sometimes... and atleast nobody can be put to blame for the stacks, that is if you get enough votes for a force random... which is actually quite hard to obtain.
Ive seen people cry about stacks when 1 comp. player joins marines over and over.... and if 2 join its a mega stack..... I am sorry but its not really always stacked. It's the fact that in pub's no one really understands the game. So when you get 2 guys that work as a team (oh shit i said team....) they rape the other team.
Jucci you are talking about something completely different. I am talking about 2+ players jumping into a server together, typically wearing the same tag, and being marines 4+ games when repeatedly asked to split up to help balance the game play.
I've seen these same skilled players heckle and spawn kill newer players until they quit to get their satisfaction out of it.
Either get better, or play with friends and antistack. You're not solving anything by this topic, or with random 'solutions'. Public is public for the obvious reason that anyone can choose to play whatever they want, only way to counter that is by administrative control on a specific server, or to only play in competitive matches.
Either get better, or play with friends and antistack. You're not solving anything by this topic, or with random 'solutions'. Public is public for the obvious reason that anyone can choose to play whatever they want, only way to counter that is by administrative control on a specific server, or to only play in competitive matches.
Your post isn't helping anything, why bother posting. There is nothing random about it. Their was atleast an attempt to fix this issue in NS1, and it worked quite well. I have proposed a similair solution for NS2.
The positive response in this topic has confirmed that this is an issue.
As a "Comp Player" who plays in quite a lot of pubs, and rarely 'stacks' (i generally actually antistack or play against the best players I can, as it helps increase skill), i'll try to address some of your concerns, although you should be aware this is a tiresome re-post of an issue brought up usually in a very hostile manner, and you're not entirely avoiding directly insulting the entire competitive community.
Getting pretty tired of the best players in a server jumping on one team with their buddies.
That's because birds of a feather flock together, and good players who play on the same team want to play together. As you want to play with your seven friends, so too do competitive players want to play with their friends. In a public server, this comes down to the rules of the community (or singular owner) hosting the server, and such policies are at the discretion of the leadership of said community/server. This is how it's always been in player-hosted games since back in WON (TFC, CS, etc).
Perhaps you should understand the two-way street here; just as you imply the 2-4 competitive players should "Not be allowed" to play together, perhaps the way competitive players see it is that you and your 7 friends should not be allowed to noskill-stack a team; maybe the competitive players want to play with others they feel are strategically and technically proficient at the game, because it enhances their experience. Do they want to play with you dragging them down any more than you want to play with them carrying you, or stomping on you? Probably not. This is the largest reason for stacking, in my experience. Unfortunately, every skill level and every demographic is forced to play together due to the small size of the community, and therefore you have no more of a voice than does the competitive player, unless the server owner/admin says so, in which case, good on you.
Typically marines choke the aliens from leaving their base right from the start and take over the whole map slowly increasing their ratios.
This is true in any game, every match, and every round of any high-skill-ceiling game ever made. Your problem isn't with the players, it's with the design of the actual game itself; an RTS/FPS hybrid that encourages laneblocking, RT-denial, so on. Any half-competent Marine player knows to take a strong position of denial and stand there, killing as many aliens as possible. Similarly, this happens in reverse; marines getting locked into 1-2 rooms and being "Farmed" by 1-2 decent fades or lerks for 10-15+ minutes, because as much as 1-3 "Stackers" can reap a large tally of kills, they can't end the game by themselves; 12v12 especially, there is no way for 1-3 "Superstackers" to do anything vs 12 people in their base respawning etc, so it becomes a matter of waiting for the lowest common denominators on the "Stacked team" to catch up and assist in the ending of the match. This is in no way the "Fault" of the 'stackers.'
I have only started playing a lot over the last month and this is the most discouraging thing in this game. It's so bad sometimes I can look at the names on a team before the game starts and call who is going to win correctly 9 times out of 10, and that 1 time I'm wrong is when the aliens get lucky and successfully rush. And it is very evident that badge players flock to the same team, and that's really a bad thing. You may say that badges don't reflect skill, but they actually do. They certainly display more skill than lack of.
This is actually just completely silly. Badges represent lots of different things, like going to PAX In-person, or donating money to NS2's continued development. It's foolish and flippant to arbitrarily imply that participating in any one of a dozen initiatives (maptesting, playtesting, etc) reflects ability at the game itself. Don't paint yourself a fool. Next point.
Seems like the pro players only care about two things, and that's their ratio and winning. As soon as they start losing 50% of the time they leave.
This is where you go overtly hostile. I'd encourage you to understand that the reason someone plays competitive is because they are just that; competitive. Yes, competitive players want to win; they also generally would like to be regarded as competent, and to play with other competent people. But isn't the same true for any and everyone who plays the game? More or less, I think so. The fact of the matter (as has been established before) is that because someone is 'competitive' or particularly good, they are frowned upon and assumed to have a dozen poor traits with no actual proof or legitimacy. You see a competitive player go 30:2 in a 12v12 and win a game, and you assert that they are a kill-farming, game-ruining troll who's there to ruin the match... when in reality, they're just there to play, and have a good time like anyone else. Everyone wants to win, some are just better at it. Don't hate them for being superior; if you want to hate them, find a legitimate reason other than "They want to win, and they want a good K:D".
I care about balanced teams that's going to last more than 2-5 minutes. I've attempted to ask certain players to split up, but very rarely do they listen to anything. The pro players seem to be the rudest and most stubborn players in the community.
Making more broad, sweeping generalizations about an entire section of players. Isn't that pretty rude?
Insisting that players you barely know, in an environment which you do not pay for, need to obey your whims. isn't that pretty stubborn?
There are certainly rude and stubborn competitive players. Just as there are rude and stubborn casuals, like yourself, who want to pin the blame on everyone with a decent K:D and a sense of direction. Do you listen when I tell you to stop making absurd, insulting posts... or to stop dying needlessly, positioning poorly, or failing to aim/exhibit basic in-game competence? I'm pretty sure you don't. Why would I listen to you when you ask me to change teams in a game we both buy and play, on a server neither of us operate, in a community neither of us lead?
The hypocrisy in your thinking and beliefs is a prime example of why competitive players would even 'consider' "Stacking" a game. To avoid people like you, with your stilted and jaded accusations and anti-competent mentality. You stand on a soapbox bashing an entire community of players for your perceived slights, not realizing you're slighting an entire audience with your cantankerous frippery.(tm)
I'm noticing friends that I turned onto this game leaving and playing other games and beginning to quit because of these stacked games. I'm actually considering going back to EA again as well and getting into BF4... now that's when you know there's a problem!
No. That's where I see a "Flavor of the month" player who blames everyone but themselves for their experiences in a game. It isn't competitive players' faults your experiences are what they are. If you have a problem with it, host your own community, become an administrator at a server cluster and provide the leadership and anti-stack structure you feel is needed. Usher in a new age of growth; not post *yet another* "Waaaaah, competitive players exist solely to ruin my experience" (As if any of us actually care about your experience any more than you care about ours, by the tone of your post).
Either way I doubt to see anything like this coming in the near future, and I notice I am exiting out of this game more and more often and my patience is running thin. Others are already following suit.
If your "patience is running thing" due to other players you're playing with, you should probably take the advice of many a troll. "Get good". Really. Improve your own ability, or financially contribute to a server community, and then you'll gain some ability to actually impact something rather than flamboyantly crying and dissing other people under a guise of "I'm leaving and my friends are too".
The pro players seem to be the rudest and most stubborn players in the community.
I think that's the problem. Most 'pro players' are VERY rude and unwelcoming. When I command and tell people to split there's always this one guy doing his own thing and killing everything by himself, then bitches about not getting medpack'd.
So I defend myself by saying, "Well why don't you get in the chair then?" They get pissed off and leave, because they only care about shooting/killing shit. I can handle the bitching, but I can't imagine how infinitely frustrating it is for a newcomer who is trying to get into commanding. I've had several players outright insult me during the game even when they can't step up their own game.
I know when a loss is my fault and I outright say it is when it is. But when a pro player does their own thing like hiding in vents and bitching about medpacks, I'll just tell you to shut the fuck up and get in line. If you're better than the entire server, play as a fucking commander.
I don't pay attention to lone wolves. Period.
I think these players are the worst, though. Pros who think their entitled to everything just because they are so high up and don't play as a comm because "I'm better on the ground". Well don't join a green server if you want a good comm
Whatever happened to being a FRIENDLY AND WELCOMING COMMUNITY?
The pro players seem to be the rudest and most stubborn players in the community.
I think that's the problem. Most 'pro players' are VERY rude and unwelcoming. When I command and tell people to split there's always this one guy doing his own thing and killing everything by himself, then bitches about not getting medpack'd.
So I defend myself by saying, "Well why don't you get in the chair then?" They get pissed off and leave, because they only care about shooting/killing shit. I can handle the bitching, but I can't imagine how infinitely frustrating it is for a newcomer who is trying to get into commanding. I've had several recruits outright insult me during the game even when they can't step up their own game.
I know when a game is my fault and I outright say it is when it is. But when a pro player does their own thing like hiding in vents and bitching about medpacks, I'll just tell you to shut the fuck up and get in line. If you're better than the entire server, play as a fucking commander.
I don't pay attention to lone wolves. Period.
I think these players are the worst, though. Pros who think their entitled to everything just because they are so high up and don't play as a comm because "I'm better on the ground". Well don't join a green server if you want a good comm
Whatever happened to being a FRIENDLY AND WELCOMING COMMUNITY?
/pat
Welcome to the internet, . Same effect as with stacking, you cant promote something without having control over it. Be it game balance or attitude.
I think a big part of the problem is that "pro" players know that is way easier to win as marine on public servers. Many of them don't stack with voice friends, they just stack marines because they know alien play sucks without teamplay and often leads to frustration.
Isn't it the other way around? You need more teamplay as marine then aliens do. It's only easy as marine if aliens are astrociously bad, like floor skulks.
I count myself a very average player, who occasionally loses control of their emotions and lashes out in-game at what is either an extraordinary player or a hacker. I'll admit it, and I'm not proud of it, but fiercely competitive games like NS2 can cause an intense onslaught of feels, especially if you like to win and feel like you can't learn from losing.
I think this topic is exaggerated by the insane disparity of skill between low-average players and the higher level players. Everyone in a server can identify this latter group immediately. They literally are just that good, and though not unique to online games at all, I play a lot of different games, and NS2 feels Quake 2-like in the absolutely ridiculous skill levels that people can (fairly) achieve. When you are that good, you WILL have a certain responsibility since your actions can swing the game wildly one way or another. Most generally fair players will play their best, but pay attention to the situation and take appropriate action if they notice they're totally wiping the other team.
I mean, I'm typically in the top quarter of the scoreboard, and sometimes even on top, but not only do I not want to mercilessly slaughter players of lesser skill, I don't have fun doing this. It's not entertaining, it's not satisfying, it's bullshit, and I know it, and we all know that these other players know it.
What's really an issue is the core behavior of said players: some are great and recognize their impact on the game, sometimes taking efforts to balance this, but others are simply immature and vindictive, and thrive on this domination of the lesser-skilled. It's obvious when this happens, and it's a definite problem. It would still be a problem with a bigger community, but there would be more ways around it. As it stands now, these freak super-players will show up on any server (rookie included) at any time, and start annihilating people. Rookie servers are a total joke, and I cringe when poor rookies actually wind up in these noob farms. Only the most dedicated would "L2P" from that non-stop frustration.
Usually admins are the solution, or a public votekick system (which can be easily abused to nightmare levels) but I feel that the OP's point still stands. "Stacked" teams and absolutely nuts skill differences are a problem that most devs recognize and try their hardest to avoid, because the end-result is the same: your playing experience sucks. In most cases, it isn't even their fault anyway. We all understand that online games will be difficult and some time spent will be required to excel at any game, but there's only so much 'paying your dues' that new players will tolerate, and how this is experienced can effect them in a massive way. It can mean the difference between continuing to play, knowing that with time and practice you too will be happily shotgunning skulks in the face, or throwing up your hands because you think there's no way you can ever even approach these levels.
NS2 just feels old-school. Mercenary-style no rules, if you suck, bummer bro, better leave. In today's gaming landscape, that doesn't fly anymore. There are 100 other games a lot more friendly than NS2 offering similar 'shoot the bad guy' experiences without the insane dedication required to improve. Players can, and will, and will continue, to leave for these countless other offerings. When you offer something as unique as NS, you need to ease players into the changes and the experience. You need to invite them along, not crush them repeatedly while offering few solutions or help to balance things in-game.
Developers like UWE just can't afford to ignore this. It will (and already has, no doubt) cost them players they don't have. It happens in every game with matchmaking, and most of the dev teams constantly work on it.
Sorry, even more here, but maybe a solution would be to have forum topics like these, though trying to avoid any harsh language, and just raise awareness of skill levels. A lot of high-level players will respond to communication, and don't want to be the ramboing jerk ruining the server. If players would communicate more, I'm sure a lot of grief could be avoided and teams may be better balanced. This should be the standard response if it's becoming a problem, and admins or server action taken only as a last resort.
I'm just pointing out that if there is any reason for a player count decline, the community is part of what's contributing to it. Also, I've played many stacked games and I'll tell you that many of these pro players rarely ever use a mike. It seems they tend to care about K:D ratio than team balance, because it makes them look good and have a large e-peen.
I might be making broad generalizations, but I speak from experience. It feels like the community doesn't care about the game anymore and are just there to have fun while the game lasts, uncaring about balanced teams.
The point of the post is that Stacking is killing the fun for everyone. We play games for fun and not so sadists can have their fix on the noobies, there is a difference between a good challenge and complete masochism.
Uh, oh, on my servers there is always the option to vote for ELO/Skill based teams if people don't want 'stacked' teams.
There are other servers with this option too, so I don't see a problem if you choose such as server. In the worst case, you can always setup your own if none is available in your region.
Besides, there are serveral reasons to why this is happening.
First, people prefer to play with people they know ("friends"), usually because you get along better and it is more fun.
Second, it's much more fun in a communicative game to play with people that communicate and usually that's the people that are at least avarage in terms of skill.
Thirly, it's also more fun to play with a team that KNOWS what it does, not an other team that plays solo mode and also has no understanding of the game in general - and usually even worse, refuse to listen as well.
There are so many countless examples that makes it annoying, and it makes it frustrating to play with such a team; consequently, you'd rather play with people that have some sense (and though you might call them skilled, they don't have to be extraordinaly good in terms of "K/D"). It really starts with the most simplest of things like nobody welding each other - I've played on teams with 8 marines where tops 2 had a welder and I actually ask the coms fora MAC in base reguarily, because it's often (sadly) the only place where I can replenish my armor.
Other examples include just ... rookie-style behaviour, like the complete inability to priorize - people biting RTs next to a PG for example.
It's not much fun to play with a team that has no clue what they do for skilled people and you'd rather stick to people who KNOW what they do; NS2 is a game that really shines when everyone works together, and you're not getting that if you're joining the "bad" team.
Also I think that Symbol = "Skill" ludicrous; it shows that you've donated, or otherwise contributed to the community. Yes, mostly people that have been around for a while and have some basic understanding of the game do that, but that doesn't make anyone extraordinarily skilled. Plently of avarage or bad "symbol" players around.
As for rookie servers, I think it is not good behaviour for good people to join there. Though it depends, if you read that truely to what it says, i.e. rookie friendly, it would just mean the server is friendly for new players. Not that no good players are allowed, unless the server actually explicitly states that is for below-avarage, new players.
But again, this boils down to the server. Play on one that suits you.
There's nothing wrong with a wall of text, aslong as there's a clear thought behind and it's written as yours is.
In majority of cases, the only thing you can really do is lead by example. Do what you want done to you, if you act like a jerk others will be a jerk to you. If someone is a jerk to you, don't get sucked into it and continue the cycle. Being informed is really the only way, and the only way to accomplish that is by someone else informing you. If your goal is to inform players to do something, you need to be doing it on the server that they are playing, ingame. There is a multitude of players who do not care, now, or ever to read forums like this. Let alone do as intructed on a 'random' post.
It's always nice to discuss things, but that doesn't mean they are being resolved.
@Colt Clearly I'm not attacking anyone personally or calling out names. If you are offended then I guess what I said applies to you and I've left it at that. I will say that while you come back with a lot of fine points, a lot of them you are trying to defend everyone out there that you label "competitive" when those points clearly don't apply to the specific people I'm talking about. I have to generalize this group of players somehow, and that's the best way I can. I'm not saying all of you are like this, but I am saying these specific people are what is causing the problem.
Your a standup competitive player apparently, but you can only speak on your behalf. I am speaking on what I have seen, and you can't change that by twisting it around based on how you are. So say what you will but consider the fact that, even as a recently reactive member, there are a good majority of players who would confirm this generalization. It's not just a stereotype.
The problem is still there. This game isn't a "Flavor of the month" for me as I've been around it for over a decade now. This is the biggest issue in this game that I see and I think things can get better. NS1 had a solution to this issue, so I feel NS2 can have something in place aswell. That's what this topic is about.
UWE had to add matchmaking in the first DLC... or at least the 2nd DLC.. but they were too busy making the female marine and "balancing" the game by adjusting numbers. Most players who have brains already quit NS2. Players with half a brain are still sitting on this forum and complaining while UWE are busy planning the super tournament of a dying game.
I can't find a better game than NS2, but unfortunately NS2 in the current state feels more broken than it was several months ago. I don't like the direction this game has taken. Hopefully UWE will pick up the broken pieces and make a come back.
I think a big part of the problem is that "pro" players know that is way easier to win as marine on public servers. Many of them don't stack with voice friends, they just stack marines because they know alien play sucks without teamplay and often leads to frustration.
Isn't it the other way around? You need more teamplay as marine then aliens do. It's only easy as marine if aliens are astrociously bad, like floor skulks.
No, it doesn't matter much if the skulk is good or bad, 1 shotgun blast kill you and you just have to fight in teams. And with the new weaker fade, it's no longer able to win the game "alone" like it used to be, because you just need the other life forms to achieve anything. Preferably with drifter support.
As marine you need a shotgun, some meds and maybe a jetpack later into the game and you are able to kill every life forms, harvesters, hives, uprades and rebuild your own buildings. It is all in your hands. You don't need to have good players to have basic team play. All you have to do is to kill life forms and res towers or at least hold your own rts until you outtech the aliens and siege their hive.
All in all you have way more control over the outcome of a match in a usual pub.
I will say that while you come back with a lot of fine points, a lot of them you are trying to defend everyone out there that you label "competitive" when those points clearly don't apply to the specific people I'm talking about. I have to generalize this group of players somehow, and that's the best way I can. I'm not saying all of you are like this, but I am saying these specific people are what is causing the problem.
So you saying it's a small subset of the competitive community (which is already very small amount of the entire pubbing player base) that is the overwhelming cause of bad games on the majority of pub servers the majority of the time. OK got it.
So you saying it's a small subset of the competitive community (which is already very small amount of the entire pubbing player base) that is the overwhelming cause of bad games on the majority of pub servers the majority of the time. OK got it.
I didn't say that either. I just didn't mean to say every single one. But a good majority of the competitive players I've seen are in many ways a problem for this game more than a helpful part of it. Constantly bitter, and anytime there is a new player instead of helping them they whine about them not being knowledgeable.
This is going off the topic though so please discontinue your derailing.
What I don't understand is the implementation of a skill bar next to the server, but not for each individual player. It would be helpful if we could actually visibly see who is what based off of stats while in the server. This is one thing that needs to be done to better identify visually which team is stacked.
You set the course, because you created the thread. You created a toxic, barb-ridden rant about how much you feel the "pro players" destroy your gaming environment. It isn't derailment for people to respond in like manner to your childish, petty complaints that the game developers owe you a forced-down-everyones-throat version of "Balance", which you followed with half-baked threats and ultimatums about how you and your 7 frriends (which clearly must represent the NS2 community as a general whole) are going to leave if your perceived issues aren't resolved.
You make a matress of razorblades, you should understand why you end up cut.
Far as i'm concerned, people like you are a far worse factor in a community than people who embrace the game at its' highest form and strive to play actively, participate in the game actively, and ultimately determine the purest path of balance. You would rather take your incredibly skewed prejudices against people who play better than you and use them as some baseline for implementing a set of policies designed to cut down and mitigate other people's enjoyment.
Wait. That's what you claim Competitive players are doing. Interesting how your ultimate goal is an out-of-game method of achieving the exact same, but reversed, ruination of another person's perceived fun.
Don't let the door hit you on the way out.
Say hi to BattleField 4 and EA for me.
I really don't care about my grammer, not sure why you waste your time with it. This isnt a term paper jackass. Thanks for the copy paste of a dictionary though... you must be really smart lol
How about you do something productive with yourself instead of defending players that I have described as blatantly trying to ruin the game for newer players. You telling people to leave isn't any more productive. I gave you your little attention, now your just making yourself look like a pompous prick... its time to move on pal i think you've had enough lol...
JektJoin Date: 2012-02-05Member: 143714Members, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow
How about you do something productive with yourself instead of defending players that I have described as blatantly trying to ruin the game for newer players. You telling people to leave isn't any more productive. I gave you your little attention, now your just making yourself look like a pompous prick... its time to move on pal i think you've had enough lol...
GhoulofGSG9Join Date: 2013-03-31Member: 184566Members, Super Administrators, Forum Admins, Forum Moderators, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Squad Five Silver, Reinforced - Supporter, WC 2013 - Supporter, Pistachionauts
edited October 2013
Imho we should wait for uwe matchmaking system before we continue to discuss about this topic, atm most server offer with elo/ score / kd based voterandom a good way to avoid stacking as much as posible.
I'd say so. My discussion was on ways of improving this issue.
Except that it wasn't. You spent the better part of your entire post bashing another party and issuing threats and ultimatums to the developers about your continued patronage.
The quote on derailment was because you entirely misused the word; no one derailed anything, people read what you posted and responded in kind.
I guess i'll stop posting in here because it's like having a discussion with a brick wall.
Enjoy your incredibly myopic view of the community and your short-lived "I'm leaving" empathy (if you even get any).
Comments
Then use team balance plugin.
There is no team balance plugin that I can find when searching for it on workshop.
Jucci you are talking about something completely different. I am talking about 2+ players jumping into a server together, typically wearing the same tag, and being marines 4+ games when repeatedly asked to split up to help balance the game play.
I've seen these same skilled players heckle and spawn kill newer players until they quit to get their satisfaction out of it.
The positive response in this topic has confirmed that this is an issue.
That's because birds of a feather flock together, and good players who play on the same team want to play together. As you want to play with your seven friends, so too do competitive players want to play with their friends. In a public server, this comes down to the rules of the community (or singular owner) hosting the server, and such policies are at the discretion of the leadership of said community/server. This is how it's always been in player-hosted games since back in WON (TFC, CS, etc).
Perhaps you should understand the two-way street here; just as you imply the 2-4 competitive players should "Not be allowed" to play together, perhaps the way competitive players see it is that you and your 7 friends should not be allowed to noskill-stack a team; maybe the competitive players want to play with others they feel are strategically and technically proficient at the game, because it enhances their experience. Do they want to play with you dragging them down any more than you want to play with them carrying you, or stomping on you? Probably not. This is the largest reason for stacking, in my experience. Unfortunately, every skill level and every demographic is forced to play together due to the small size of the community, and therefore you have no more of a voice than does the competitive player, unless the server owner/admin says so, in which case, good on you.
This is true in any game, every match, and every round of any high-skill-ceiling game ever made. Your problem isn't with the players, it's with the design of the actual game itself; an RTS/FPS hybrid that encourages laneblocking, RT-denial, so on. Any half-competent Marine player knows to take a strong position of denial and stand there, killing as many aliens as possible. Similarly, this happens in reverse; marines getting locked into 1-2 rooms and being "Farmed" by 1-2 decent fades or lerks for 10-15+ minutes, because as much as 1-3 "Stackers" can reap a large tally of kills, they can't end the game by themselves; 12v12 especially, there is no way for 1-3 "Superstackers" to do anything vs 12 people in their base respawning etc, so it becomes a matter of waiting for the lowest common denominators on the "Stacked team" to catch up and assist in the ending of the match. This is in no way the "Fault" of the 'stackers.'
This is actually just completely silly. Badges represent lots of different things, like going to PAX In-person, or donating money to NS2's continued development. It's foolish and flippant to arbitrarily imply that participating in any one of a dozen initiatives (maptesting, playtesting, etc) reflects ability at the game itself. Don't paint yourself a fool. Next point.
This is where you go overtly hostile. I'd encourage you to understand that the reason someone plays competitive is because they are just that; competitive. Yes, competitive players want to win; they also generally would like to be regarded as competent, and to play with other competent people. But isn't the same true for any and everyone who plays the game? More or less, I think so. The fact of the matter (as has been established before) is that because someone is 'competitive' or particularly good, they are frowned upon and assumed to have a dozen poor traits with no actual proof or legitimacy. You see a competitive player go 30:2 in a 12v12 and win a game, and you assert that they are a kill-farming, game-ruining troll who's there to ruin the match... when in reality, they're just there to play, and have a good time like anyone else. Everyone wants to win, some are just better at it. Don't hate them for being superior; if you want to hate them, find a legitimate reason other than "They want to win, and they want a good K:D".
Making more broad, sweeping generalizations about an entire section of players. Isn't that pretty rude?
Insisting that players you barely know, in an environment which you do not pay for, need to obey your whims. isn't that pretty stubborn?
There are certainly rude and stubborn competitive players. Just as there are rude and stubborn casuals, like yourself, who want to pin the blame on everyone with a decent K:D and a sense of direction. Do you listen when I tell you to stop making absurd, insulting posts... or to stop dying needlessly, positioning poorly, or failing to aim/exhibit basic in-game competence? I'm pretty sure you don't. Why would I listen to you when you ask me to change teams in a game we both buy and play, on a server neither of us operate, in a community neither of us lead?
The hypocrisy in your thinking and beliefs is a prime example of why competitive players would even 'consider' "Stacking" a game. To avoid people like you, with your stilted and jaded accusations and anti-competent mentality. You stand on a soapbox bashing an entire community of players for your perceived slights, not realizing you're slighting an entire audience with your cantankerous frippery.(tm)
No. That's where I see a "Flavor of the month" player who blames everyone but themselves for their experiences in a game. It isn't competitive players' faults your experiences are what they are. If you have a problem with it, host your own community, become an administrator at a server cluster and provide the leadership and anti-stack structure you feel is needed. Usher in a new age of growth; not post *yet another* "Waaaaah, competitive players exist solely to ruin my experience" (As if any of us actually care about your experience any more than you care about ours, by the tone of your post).
If your "patience is running thing" due to other players you're playing with, you should probably take the advice of many a troll. "Get good". Really. Improve your own ability, or financially contribute to a server community, and then you'll gain some ability to actually impact something rather than flamboyantly crying and dissing other people under a guise of "I'm leaving and my friends are too".
-Colt.
"Get at me, bro."
I think that's the problem. Most 'pro players' are VERY rude and unwelcoming. When I command and tell people to split there's always this one guy doing his own thing and killing everything by himself, then bitches about not getting medpack'd.
So I defend myself by saying, "Well why don't you get in the chair then?" They get pissed off and leave, because they only care about shooting/killing shit. I can handle the bitching, but I can't imagine how infinitely frustrating it is for a newcomer who is trying to get into commanding. I've had several players outright insult me during the game even when they can't step up their own game.
I know when a loss is my fault and I outright say it is when it is. But when a pro player does their own thing like hiding in vents and bitching about medpacks, I'll just tell you to shut the fuck up and get in line. If you're better than the entire server, play as a fucking commander.
I don't pay attention to lone wolves. Period.
I think these players are the worst, though. Pros who think their entitled to everything just because they are so high up and don't play as a comm because "I'm better on the ground". Well don't join a green server if you want a good comm
Whatever happened to being a FRIENDLY AND WELCOMING COMMUNITY?
Welcome to the internet,
Isn't it the other way around? You need more teamplay as marine then aliens do. It's only easy as marine if aliens are astrociously bad, like floor skulks.
I count myself a very average player, who occasionally loses control of their emotions and lashes out in-game at what is either an extraordinary player or a hacker. I'll admit it, and I'm not proud of it, but fiercely competitive games like NS2 can cause an intense onslaught of feels, especially if you like to win and feel like you can't learn from losing.
I think this topic is exaggerated by the insane disparity of skill between low-average players and the higher level players. Everyone in a server can identify this latter group immediately. They literally are just that good, and though not unique to online games at all, I play a lot of different games, and NS2 feels Quake 2-like in the absolutely ridiculous skill levels that people can (fairly) achieve. When you are that good, you WILL have a certain responsibility since your actions can swing the game wildly one way or another. Most generally fair players will play their best, but pay attention to the situation and take appropriate action if they notice they're totally wiping the other team.
I mean, I'm typically in the top quarter of the scoreboard, and sometimes even on top, but not only do I not want to mercilessly slaughter players of lesser skill, I don't have fun doing this. It's not entertaining, it's not satisfying, it's bullshit, and I know it, and we all know that these other players know it.
What's really an issue is the core behavior of said players: some are great and recognize their impact on the game, sometimes taking efforts to balance this, but others are simply immature and vindictive, and thrive on this domination of the lesser-skilled. It's obvious when this happens, and it's a definite problem. It would still be a problem with a bigger community, but there would be more ways around it. As it stands now, these freak super-players will show up on any server (rookie included) at any time, and start annihilating people. Rookie servers are a total joke, and I cringe when poor rookies actually wind up in these noob farms. Only the most dedicated would "L2P" from that non-stop frustration.
Usually admins are the solution, or a public votekick system (which can be easily abused to nightmare levels) but I feel that the OP's point still stands. "Stacked" teams and absolutely nuts skill differences are a problem that most devs recognize and try their hardest to avoid, because the end-result is the same: your playing experience sucks. In most cases, it isn't even their fault anyway. We all understand that online games will be difficult and some time spent will be required to excel at any game, but there's only so much 'paying your dues' that new players will tolerate, and how this is experienced can effect them in a massive way. It can mean the difference between continuing to play, knowing that with time and practice you too will be happily shotgunning skulks in the face, or throwing up your hands because you think there's no way you can ever even approach these levels.
NS2 just feels old-school. Mercenary-style no rules, if you suck, bummer bro, better leave. In today's gaming landscape, that doesn't fly anymore. There are 100 other games a lot more friendly than NS2 offering similar 'shoot the bad guy' experiences without the insane dedication required to improve. Players can, and will, and will continue, to leave for these countless other offerings. When you offer something as unique as NS, you need to ease players into the changes and the experience. You need to invite them along, not crush them repeatedly while offering few solutions or help to balance things in-game.
Developers like UWE just can't afford to ignore this. It will (and already has, no doubt) cost them players they don't have. It happens in every game with matchmaking, and most of the dev teams constantly work on it.
Sorry, even more here, but maybe a solution would be to have forum topics like these, though trying to avoid any harsh language, and just raise awareness of skill levels. A lot of high-level players will respond to communication, and don't want to be the ramboing jerk ruining the server. If players would communicate more, I'm sure a lot of grief could be avoided and teams may be better balanced. This should be the standard response if it's becoming a problem, and admins or server action taken only as a last resort.
TEXT WALL OF DOOM
I'm just pointing out that if there is any reason for a player count decline, the community is part of what's contributing to it. Also, I've played many stacked games and I'll tell you that many of these pro players rarely ever use a mike. It seems they tend to care about K:D ratio than team balance, because it makes them look good and have a large e-peen.
I might be making broad generalizations, but I speak from experience. It feels like the community doesn't care about the game anymore and are just there to have fun while the game lasts, uncaring about balanced teams.
The point of the post is that Stacking is killing the fun for everyone. We play games for fun and not so sadists can have their fix on the noobies, there is a difference between a good challenge and complete masochism.
There are other servers with this option too, so I don't see a problem if you choose such as server. In the worst case, you can always setup your own if none is available in your region.
Besides, there are serveral reasons to why this is happening.
First, people prefer to play with people they know ("friends"), usually because you get along better and it is more fun.
Second, it's much more fun in a communicative game to play with people that communicate and usually that's the people that are at least avarage in terms of skill.
Thirly, it's also more fun to play with a team that KNOWS what it does, not an other team that plays solo mode and also has no understanding of the game in general - and usually even worse, refuse to listen as well.
There are so many countless examples that makes it annoying, and it makes it frustrating to play with such a team; consequently, you'd rather play with people that have some sense (and though you might call them skilled, they don't have to be extraordinaly good in terms of "K/D"). It really starts with the most simplest of things like nobody welding each other - I've played on teams with 8 marines where tops 2 had a welder and I actually ask the coms fora MAC in base reguarily, because it's often (sadly) the only place where I can replenish my armor.
Other examples include just ... rookie-style behaviour, like the complete inability to priorize - people biting RTs next to a PG for example.
It's not much fun to play with a team that has no clue what they do for skilled people and you'd rather stick to people who KNOW what they do; NS2 is a game that really shines when everyone works together, and you're not getting that if you're joining the "bad" team.
Also I think that Symbol = "Skill" ludicrous; it shows that you've donated, or otherwise contributed to the community. Yes, mostly people that have been around for a while and have some basic understanding of the game do that, but that doesn't make anyone extraordinarily skilled. Plently of avarage or bad "symbol" players around.
As for rookie servers, I think it is not good behaviour for good people to join there. Though it depends, if you read that truely to what it says, i.e. rookie friendly, it would just mean the server is friendly for new players. Not that no good players are allowed, unless the server actually explicitly states that is for below-avarage, new players.
But again, this boils down to the server. Play on one that suits you.
In majority of cases, the only thing you can really do is lead by example. Do what you want done to you, if you act like a jerk others will be a jerk to you. If someone is a jerk to you, don't get sucked into it and continue the cycle. Being informed is really the only way, and the only way to accomplish that is by someone else informing you. If your goal is to inform players to do something, you need to be doing it on the server that they are playing, ingame. There is a multitude of players who do not care, now, or ever to read forums like this. Let alone do as intructed on a 'random' post.
It's always nice to discuss things, but that doesn't mean they are being resolved.
Your a standup competitive player apparently, but you can only speak on your behalf. I am speaking on what I have seen, and you can't change that by twisting it around based on how you are. So say what you will but consider the fact that, even as a recently reactive member, there are a good majority of players who would confirm this generalization. It's not just a stereotype.
The problem is still there. This game isn't a "Flavor of the month" for me as I've been around it for over a decade now. This is the biggest issue in this game that I see and I think things can get better. NS1 had a solution to this issue, so I feel NS2 can have something in place aswell. That's what this topic is about.
I can't find a better game than NS2, but unfortunately NS2 in the current state feels more broken than it was several months ago. I don't like the direction this game has taken. Hopefully UWE will pick up the broken pieces and make a come back.
No, it doesn't matter much if the skulk is good or bad, 1 shotgun blast kill you and you just have to fight in teams. And with the new weaker fade, it's no longer able to win the game "alone" like it used to be, because you just need the other life forms to achieve anything. Preferably with drifter support.
As marine you need a shotgun, some meds and maybe a jetpack later into the game and you are able to kill every life forms, harvesters, hives, uprades and rebuild your own buildings. It is all in your hands. You don't need to have good players to have basic team play. All you have to do is to kill life forms and res towers or at least hold your own rts until you outtech the aliens and siege their hive.
All in all you have way more control over the outcome of a match in a usual pub.
So you saying it's a small subset of the competitive community (which is already very small amount of the entire pubbing player base) that is the overwhelming cause of bad games on the majority of pub servers the majority of the time. OK got it.
This is going off the topic though so please discontinue your derailing.
What I don't understand is the implementation of a skill bar next to the server, but not for each individual player. It would be helpful if we could actually visibly see who is what based off of stats while in the server. This is one thing that needs to be done to better identify visually which team is stacked.
de·rail
dēˈrāl/
verb: derail; 3rd person present: derails; past tense: derailed; past participle: derailed; gerund or present participle: derailing
- obstruct (a process) by diverting it from its intended course.
"the plot is seen by some as an attempt to derail the negotiations"
You set the course, because you created the thread. You created a toxic, barb-ridden rant about how much you feel the "pro players" destroy your gaming environment. It isn't derailment for people to respond in like manner to your childish, petty complaints that the game developers owe you a forced-down-everyones-throat version of "Balance", which you followed with half-baked threats and ultimatums about how you and your 7 frriends (which clearly must represent the NS2 community as a general whole) are going to leave if your perceived issues aren't resolved.
You make a matress of razorblades, you should understand why you end up cut.
Far as i'm concerned, people like you are a far worse factor in a community than people who embrace the game at its' highest form and strive to play actively, participate in the game actively, and ultimately determine the purest path of balance. You would rather take your incredibly skewed prejudices against people who play better than you and use them as some baseline for implementing a set of policies designed to cut down and mitigate other people's enjoyment.
Wait. That's what you claim Competitive players are doing. Interesting how your ultimate goal is an out-of-game method of achieving the exact same, but reversed, ruination of another person's perceived fun.
Don't let the door hit you on the way out.
Say hi to BattleField 4 and EA for me.
How about you do something productive with yourself instead of defending players that I have described as blatantly trying to ruin the game for newer players. You telling people to leave isn't any more productive. I gave you your little attention, now your just making yourself look like a pompous prick... its time to move on pal i think you've had enough lol...
... likewise?
I'd like to see a bar for each player, if they can create a bar based on who is on the server.
Tough to gauge representative responses then.
Except that it wasn't. You spent the better part of your entire post bashing another party and issuing threats and ultimatums to the developers about your continued patronage.
The quote on derailment was because you entirely misused the word; no one derailed anything, people read what you posted and responded in kind.
I guess i'll stop posting in here because it's like having a discussion with a brick wall.
Enjoy your incredibly myopic view of the community and your short-lived "I'm leaving" empathy (if you even get any).
-Colt