Pro players - Competitive play Vs Pub Play

1356

Comments

  • joederpjoederp Members Join Date: 2012-11-02 Member: 165992Posts: 333
    Roobubba wrote: »
    What a terrible analogy. We're all paying for access to the gym here. Why should Therius' hypothetical character suddenly be responsible for training and coaching? Is he getting paid for it, or maybe volunteered?

    No you are right, hes not paid to train people. So he goes to the gym and spars with all the new comers, goes full-tilt beating the living shit out of guys who put their gloves on backwards until they quit the gym, then shrugging his shoulders saying "Oh well, too bad for them, I'll be damned if I'll change my fighting style for anyone."

    It's just being a jerk, and the gym owner has every right to kick you out for clearing out his gym. I'm not saying it's fair to him but as a server owner, this is how I would handle it. If 1-3 players are ruining the game for everyone else, I would ask them to stop doing whatever it is they are doing, and if they refuse, they get kicked. It's really that simple. Server owners don't want to pay for a server only to see it empty half the time.
    I do see where both sides are coming from, you don't want to have to change your play style cause everyone else sucks. But unfortunately you play NS2, which has a small player base many of which are noobs. So if you choose to go around emptying out what few servers there are, then don't be shocked when server admins give ya the boot. Do your best to keep the teams even, is all I'm saying.
    KingKahuna
  • TheriusTherius Members, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Supporter Join Date: 2009-03-06 Member: 66642Posts: 750 Advanced user
    joederp wrote: »
    Therius wrote: »
    Noobs can change the server to one that caters better to their skill level or start playing another game entirely. You know, the exact same thing people are saying good players should do if they can't find servers with challenge.

    And just in case this forum once again excels in misunderstandings: I'm playing the devil's advocate here.

    You would not do well as a boxing instructor. Screaming "GET BETTER!" while you punched new recruits in the face would probably mean your gym is not open very long. Now see if you can figure out how my analogy relates to NS2.

    As it so happens, I'm not an instructor in NS2. I'm a player just like everyone else, with the same rights as everyone else. Nobody's paying me to be nice to them, they just happen to be in the same place doing the same thing I am, only that I'm doing it better.

    I do not pubstomp intentionally, but if there are no servers catering to my skill level, the arguments of "wait", "seed", "play another game" and "play a role you don't want to play" are void, as it's just as much my right to enjoy my casual public gaming as it is that of everyone else.
  • hub3rtu2hub3rtu2 Members, Reinforced - Diamond Join Date: 2012-11-01 Member: 165478Posts: 66 Advanced user
    Don't you have PCWs, scrims or whatever those are called over there? You know, where people that can actually run NS2 at steady 30+ frames per second and can also aim at that, group up to play a player-wise balanced match, and leave us poorfags/noobs alone? Pretty please? It's not so hard to find people, at least in EU, I hear.

    Ha, I used steady and NS2 in one sentence.
    ...and if you enjoy pubstomping, just commit sudoku.
    Steam

    EU, Mr. Plinkett
  • joederpjoederp Members Join Date: 2012-11-02 Member: 165992Posts: 333
    edited August 2013
    Therius wrote: »
    joederp wrote: »
    Therius wrote: »
    Noobs can change the server to one that caters better to their skill level or start playing another game entirely. You know, the exact same thing people are saying good players should do if they can't find servers with challenge.

    And just in case this forum once again excels in misunderstandings: I'm playing the devil's advocate here.

    You would not do well as a boxing instructor. Screaming "GET BETTER!" while you punched new recruits in the face would probably mean your gym is not open very long. Now see if you can figure out how my analogy relates to NS2.

    As it so happens, I'm not an instructor in NS2. I'm a player just like everyone else, with the same rights as everyone else. Nobody's paying me to be nice to them, they just happen to be in the same place doing the same thing I am, only that I'm doing it better.

    I do not pubstomp intentionally, but if there are no servers catering to my skill level, the arguments of "wait", "seed", "play another game" and "play a role you don't want to play" are void, as it's just as much my right to enjoy my casual public gaming as it is that of everyone else.

    I get what you are saying, I really do. But I really don't think you are looking at the big picture here. You are placing your own personal needs over the well being of the server and the community as a whole. I firmly believe its because of people like you that ns2 has such a small player base. I'm not trying to sound like a dick but generally people don't have a very good tolerance for getting obliterated time and time again in a game. If it happens too much they usually just quit and never play again. Ever heard of the term "downward spiral" ? You destroy the motivation of these guys to keep trying at this game, you give them no hope that it will get better, so they quit and uninstall. Not your problem huh? Too many people are like you, so the player base expands at an unbelievable slow rate. Just keep that in mind next time you can't find any good servers with players in them.
    I really do not see what the big deal is about commanding to teach the noobs, or playing a defensive role like protecting marine base or gorging. Some of you guys act like filling one of those roles is just the most inconvenient thing ever for you.. I do it all the time and its quite fun to rally a team of noobs to defeat the unorganized team of noobs. And lots of times I see new players talking about how much fun that was, and how the game is 100x better with a good commander and team organization etc.. I have probably single handedly caused dozens of noobs to keep interest in this game and practice so they can once again have a fun game like that, now that they had a taste. So please instead of being my opposition in this chore, help out. Help the community to expand by helping new players. Once we have an enormous player base, then feel free to stomp all the noobs you want.
    KingKahunaLance_Aubrey
  • |DFA| Havoc|DFA| Havoc Members, Reinforced - Shadow Join Date: 2009-08-07 Member: 68375Posts: 160
    I agree with Joederp completely. By looking out only for yourself and what gives you the most personal pleasure, you are placing the needs of the one above the needs of the many. You are also indirectly shooting yourself in the foot, because as Joederp points out, this behavior tends to discourage rookies and casuals and drive them away from the game.
    KingKahunaOscarTheCouch
  • kalakujakalakuja Members, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Supporter Join Date: 2012-09-11 Member: 159045Posts: 380
    It's ass to find pcws as irc is dead and motivation due to random balance changes is not really high.
  • RaZDaZRaZDaZ Members, Reinforced - Shadow Join Date: 2012-11-05 Member: 167331Posts: 465 Fully active user
    Could nerf yourself if you get "threatened" a lot about being kicked. If you're really good, going fade or jetpack shotgunner in combat is going to get a lot of comments if you're just dominating, just go gorge or GL :)
    .and if you enjoy pubstomping, just commit sudoku.

    It's seppuku if that's what you mean? I wouldn't like to play sudoku tbh, I don't find it fun ;)
    NS2 ID: RaZDaZ
    Old School AvP2 Vet
  • TovaTova Members, Reinforced - Shadow Join Date: 2012-12-26 Member: 176254Posts: 41
    edited September 2013
    Allowing heavyweight champs to dominate against babies who don't know how to put their gloves on is only further destroying our community retention. There's no better way to burn normal players, and empty out servers than for one or two elites to just roll an entire team.

    What if there were regularly held "elite" higher level events. I'm not talking competitions, but like a well advertised "come play and hang out with NS2 with elites every Saturday on X servers." Maybe have a steam group which regularly updates a calendar, holds a place to talk to eachother, and send out auto reminders about events. By holding a couple of regular events, you might just be able to get elites to network enough with each other to keep elite servers seeded at reasonable hours.

    It'll never be perfect, but a compromise HAS to be made, the skill gap is just beyond ridiculous on some of these pub servers.
    twiliteblue
  • Side1Bu2Rnz9Side1Bu2Rnz9 Members, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Shadow Join Date: 2012-10-16 Member: 162510Posts: 289 Advanced user
    @Tova http://steamcommunity.com/groups/rns2pugs

    These are the redit PUG's not exactly well advertised as I would like, but it's public and anyone can join (need to be on mumble server to join games). A lot of ns2 vets are found using these servers and their mumble every night and it's a lot of fun. I understand where you're coming from when you believe us "elites" ruin pubs, but we don't try to. I'll join these pug's when there's people that are able to play with me, but where am I suppose to go when there isn't a pug or scrim going on?

    Us "elites" are constantly talking with each other, we have each other on friends lists and what not. We play ns2 because we enjoy the game, not just to pub stomp like some would believe. We're just like everyone else. We like to play ns2 and often time we're not all on around the same times. We play on public servers because we like to play ns2 just like you like to play ns2. Why are people like you constantly discriminating and bringing up month old forum posts against us. What if the tides were turned and the majority of ns2 players were "elites" would you like it if we created forum posts and kicked/banned people from servers for being new to the game?

    What "compromise" would you have for us? Don't play ns2 public servers since all of them are rookie friendly? Doesn't seem very fair for us now does it?
  • TovaTova Members, Reinforced - Shadow Join Date: 2012-12-26 Member: 176254Posts: 41
    Play PUGs with other elites, dial it back and focus primarily on teaching when it comes to public servers. I'm sorry you might not agree, but it's still a problem one month on from the last post in this thread. I'll start screen capping servers that empty out because 1 or 2 outstanding players decide it's OK to lay full force into a bunch of casual/rookie players if you need proof that this is still an issue. If you want people to stick with NS2 long enough to grow the elite pool, to give you decent server population numbers, you're going to have to do something other than stomp pubs.

    I'm not asking anyone to be kicked or banned because they are too skilled, everyone should be able to enjoy the game, so please don't act so offended and attempt to strawman when I'm bringing up a reasonable point.
    KingKahunaMasterBatKwisatzHaderach
  • joshhhjoshhh Milwaukee, WIMembers, NS2 Playtester, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Supporter, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow, Subnautica Playtester Join Date: 2011-06-21 Member: 105717Posts: 1,437 Advanced user
    AFAIK, comp players enjoy casually pubbing too. When said comp player is not scrimming or pugging, playing on pub servers is the only way they can 'practice' per say. If comp players are team stacking, well that's a whole different issue. If a single player is dominating a server... well it happens.
  • rayzourayzou Members, WC 2013 - Shadow Join Date: 2013-03-18 Member: 184066Posts: 63
    The only way to make people improve is to play against or with a better player. Even if he's dominating, it shows everyone how skilled a player can be.

    This is the reason why i kept playing NS1, seeing incredibly good players. I was just jealous these guys were powning so much. In some way, it's really motivating public players imo.

    In every single game (Tribes, CS, DOD, etc...) without matchmaking system base on skill rating, you will always see one or two players better than anyone else... This "problem" will never get an end, even if it's not a problem to my mind.
    LocklearSide1Bu2Rnz9casan0vax
  • TovaTova Members, Reinforced - Shadow Join Date: 2012-12-26 Member: 176254Posts: 41
    rayzou wrote: »
    The only way to make people improve is to play against or with a better player. Even if he's dominating, it shows everyone how skilled a player can be.

    No that's really not how it works. Someone goes 40:2, and the server empties out, noone stays to learn.
    KingKahunaMasterBatKwisatzHaderachjoederp
  • SammyGSammyG EnglandMembers, NS2 Playtester, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow Join Date: 2013-05-07 Member: 185160Posts: 92 Fully active user
    Actually people do stay to learn. I have personally posed the question "do you want me to leave guys?" to the opposite team when I have been dominating public servers and quite a few players said it motivates them to try and kill me. Of course not everyone is the same but there are players out there who like playing against people better than them to learn.

    Unfortunately I think the number of players willing to put up with such a beating to learn something are very few and far between.
  • Side1Bu2Rnz9Side1Bu2Rnz9 Members, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Shadow Join Date: 2012-10-16 Member: 162510Posts: 289 Advanced user
    Tova wrote: »
    rayzou wrote: »
    The only way to make people improve is to play against or with a better player. Even if he's dominating, it shows everyone how skilled a player can be.

    No that's really not how it works. Someone goes 40:2, and the server empties out, noone stays to learn.

    Their loss... I sorry but I can't feel bad for people that just rage instead of staying to get better. When NS2 first came out I was in their shoes. I SUCKED... But I played PUG's got better and now play div2. I'm a full believer in that playing better players makes you better, I'm living proof.

    Now I constantly pub because I play ns2 too much and there's often not enough people on to PUG, but I've never seen the servers empty because I played too hard. They only time I've seen servers empty is when teams stack.
  • LocklearLocklear [nexzil]kerrigan Members, NS2 Playtester, NS2 Map Tester, WC 2013 - Shadow Join Date: 2012-05-01 Member: 151403Posts: 1,337 Advanced user
    Tova wrote: »
    rayzou wrote: »
    The only way to make people improve is to play against or with a better player. Even if he's dominating, it shows everyone how skilled a player can be.

    No that's really not how it works. Someone goes 40:2, and the server empties out, noone stays to learn.

    Backbone or go home.
    "If great visuals brings players in, great gameplay gets them to stay." - Valve
  • casan0vaxcasan0vax Cloverfield, USAMembers, WC 2013 - Shadow Join Date: 2012-11-04 Member: 166663Posts: 202
    Someone told me to get off of KKG a few days ago.

    First, I'm seriously not that good at NS2.
    Second, KKG isn't even rookie friendly.

    In the end, some people are just permanent residents of Madville, USA :(
    #FREEEISSFELDT
    soz! < caSa > - RETIRED COMMANDER/CASTER

    Decoy
  • KingKahunaKingKahuna Members, Reinforced - Shadow Join Date: 2008-03-23 Member: 63944Posts: 23
    Locklear wrote: »
    Tova wrote: »
    rayzou wrote: »
    The only way to make people improve is to play against or with a better player. Even if he's dominating, it shows everyone how skilled a player can be.

    No that's really not how it works. Someone goes 40:2, and the server empties out, noone stays to learn.

    Backbone or go home.

    This is exactly the reason the competitive players get a bad reputation. This exact attitude. But of course, until they see it nothing will change.

    MasterBatMac1OManOscarTheCouch
  • KingKahunaKingKahuna Members, Reinforced - Shadow Join Date: 2008-03-23 Member: 63944Posts: 23
    KingKahuna wrote: »
    Locklear wrote: »
    Tova wrote: »
    rayzou wrote: »
    The only way to make people improve is to play against or with a better player. Even if he's dominating, it shows everyone how skilled a player can be.

    No that's really not how it works. Someone goes 40:2, and the server empties out, noone stays to learn.

    Backbone or go home.

    This is exactly the reason the competitive players get a bad reputation. This exact attitude. But of course, until they see it nothing will change.

    And this is the exactly the reason they revile me. I don't allow them to get away with it. Not only do I not like bullying, but no one else likes it either. Some people can play with class, some have no class. I've done a pretty good job at getting rid of those with no class, and will continue on that path.

    KK
    Mac1OManOscarTheCouch
  • eh?eh? Members Join Date: 2012-03-03 Member: 147997Posts: 517 Fully active user
  • joshhhjoshhh Milwaukee, WIMembers, NS2 Playtester, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Supporter, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow, Subnautica Playtester Join Date: 2011-06-21 Member: 105717Posts: 1,437 Advanced user
    edited September 2013
    Did you just quote yourself? O_O

    Anyway, I really do not understand what you want good players to do? All stacking aside, most high level players will have high kdr's no matter what server they go on... rookie friendly or normal. You talk about class and how all comp players ruin the game but you don't present any viable solutions to the problem... There are pugs but those only happen when enough people can play. Telling comp players to 'go play with people at their level' basically tells them to never pub, ever. That is a pretty unfair argument.

    P.S. There must be some quality lols if ehh crawls out of his hole to comment. lol
    rayzouSalads
  • eh?eh? Members Join Date: 2012-03-03 Member: 147997Posts: 517 Fully active user
    Found it much more amusing that my reply wasn't instantly deleted by someone more than anything.
    joshhhGORGEousDecoy
  • KingKahunaKingKahuna Members, Reinforced - Shadow Join Date: 2008-03-23 Member: 63944Posts: 23
    joshhh wrote: »
    Did you just quote yourself? O_O

    Anyway, I really do not understand what you want good players to do? All stacking aside, most high level players will have high kdr's no matter what server they go on... rookie friendly or normal. You talk about class and how all comp players ruin the game but you don't present any viable solutions to the problem... There are pugs but those only happen when enough people can play. Telling comp players to 'go play with people at their level' basically tells them to never pub, ever. That is a pretty unfair argument.

    P.S. There must be some quality lols if ehh crawls out of his hole to comment. lol

    I have offered up solutions to many of you several times. Yet, you still rather get enjoyment of pub stomping, name calling, and bullying the new players in the game. Then you all wonder why they all quit the game after a couple of weeks.

    Have a nice day,

    KK
    Mac1OMan
  • rayzourayzou Members, WC 2013 - Shadow Join Date: 2013-03-18 Member: 184066Posts: 63
    edited September 2013
    Tova wrote: »
    No that's really not how it works. Someone goes 40:2, and the server empties out, noone stays to learn.

    Then, too bad for them. I don't really care about people that don't want to learn. Tryed to give my opinion in some way, and why I decided to learn how to play better. Now, if pubbers think they already know most of the game, good for them.

    "Lez go ghozt upgrade guyz, zey can't zee me lollllll !"

    But anyway, now there's the skill rating system through server browser... If a "pro player" as you call them is here, the rating thing should be too high for them so they won't join. Oh, wait, people don't even understand this skill rating bar in the server browser ?

    Personnaly, i've always been kind to anyway and tryed to lead people to the victory on public games. I don't play pubs often because of the attitude KingKahuna and some pubbers are showing ("i will always have the last word, always stand on my position and categorize every player i see"). Seeing someone way better than ourselves shouldn't make rage. I don't get it. Why not just adding him as friend and ask him questions so he can play better ? At least 20 pub players added me as friend since NS2 is out and asked me advices and stuff. Some of them are still playing and are now on the competittive scene.

    Moreover, if you think that we are joining a public server just to "pubstomp", you are kinda wrong dude. We just want to play, because we don't have a match or anything else to do.

    I've just played a public game and went commander. It's pretty bad that commanding isn't rewarded on the Hive dashboard. It's not taking in account you are playing in comm. For example, i have an average of 690 skill rating. I checked the website after commanding (had the spilling blood award as alien comm after an 37 mins game) and i had ~350 skill rating for this game.
    I don't really care about these stats, but i'm trying to find ways to give some motivation to players so they keep playing and make everyone happy. Seriously, this is just paradoxical to see its own skill rating go down because you do the comm duties.
    Decoy
  • TheriusTherius Members, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Supporter Join Date: 2009-03-06 Member: 66642Posts: 750 Advanced user
    KingKahuna wrote: »
    Yet, you still rather get enjoyment of pub stomping, name calling, and bullying the new players in the game.

    If you really think it's the ones who stomp and not the ones being stomped who indulge in bullying and name calling, then you've got another thing coming.
    MalGanis2Side1Bu2Rnz9
  • ChikunChikun Members, Reinforced - Shadow Join Date: 2013-01-10 Member: 178729Posts: 80
    edited September 2013
    The only thing that pisses me off in pubs are when the people who had insane KDR's the last round join the same team round after round. I'm all for getting stomped every once in a while, its good for the ego and a good learning experience, but seeing this level of cowardice from "competitive players" gives everyone a bad taste in their mouth. One look at the team setup and everyone knows what's going to happen the next round and when you destroy the hope of winning or any optimism, you destroy the server population.

    Preach all you want about "only getting better by playing people better than you". I'm a firm believer of it, but until other "competitive players" start calling out others on this behavior you will always have a small amount of disdain from others.
    Post edited by Chikun on
    KingKahunaMasterBat
  • KingKahunaKingKahuna Members, Reinforced - Shadow Join Date: 2008-03-23 Member: 63944Posts: 23
    Chikun wrote: »
    The only thing that pisses me off in pubs are when the people who had insane KDR's the last round join the same team round after round. I'm all for getting stomped every once in a while, its good for the ego and a good learning experience, but seeing this level of cowardice from "competitive players" gives everyone a bad taste in their mouth. One look at the team setup and everyone knows what's going to happen the next round and when you destroy the hope of winning or any optimism, you destroy the server population.

    Preach all you want about "only getting better by playing people better than you". I'm a firm believer of it, but until other "competitive players" start calling out others on this behavior you will always have a small amount of disdain from others.

    You sir, are absolutely correct. I've been stepping out saying this for a long long time. You can see the arrogance, and disrespect from those here who have posted. Not all are classless, that's the good news.
    ChikunMasterBatMac1OMan
  • SyknikSyknik InversionNS2.com Members, Constellation, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Supporter, Reinforced - Shadow Join Date: 2002-11-01 Member: 2064Posts: 531 Advanced user
    In all honesty, when i do play on public server, i tend to try to play on the KKG servers. I do get nagged on by some of the public players because of my KDR and whatnot, but i've never had an issue with KingKahuna or most of the admins on the KKG servers. I could play on the KKG server go 80-2 and the admins won't bother me or tell me to leave. Though i hear a lot of my friends being kicked and banned, no idea why my experiences have been so different from so many others.
    Current Team: Lucky Chams - Syknik!
    rantologyKingKahunaSide1Bu2Rnz9Frozen
Sign In or Register to comment.