Pro players - Competitive play Vs Pub Play

waflzwaflz Join Date: 2012-09-07 Member: 158459Members Posts: 114 Advanced user
Hello everyone,

I play as an admin on the TBG servers, and I need help with some of the players , gameplay ect.

ITs very very hard to tell if someone is using any kind of third person program. Aimbot/Walls/Scripts

I know alot of high end League players, can empty our servers just by playing and having fun, mainly because of the aiming ability or biting ability is so far ahead of most.

Ns2 gameplay can be changed so drasticly by one really really good player, playing in a Pub setting.

Does anyone have any tips to recognizing high end league players and hackers?

Thanks
«13456

Comments

  • tdunc-tdunc- Join Date: 2013-01-12 Member: 179214Members, Reinforced - Shadow Posts: 49 Advanced user
    If you suspect that someone is hacking.. you could actually look up their steamid on NS2stats. And then you can also lookup their name on ENSL

    Should help

    I think there is also a database being built which names hackers or something like that. Someone who knows more should be able to chime in.
    GhoulofGSG9
  • nezznezz Join Date: 2012-12-11 Member: 174712Members Posts: 291
    edited April 2013
    with the way FPV is set up atm, it can be very hard to identify wallhackers unless they're completely stupid and tracking skulks through the wall.

    I know (not that i agree/disagree with this method) that certain admins in the australian community have installed these said hacks to spectate & or load after demoing someone and then rewatch it. Interesting option to say the least.

    If you're unsure, i suggest a quick steam search to view past/current history throughout many games. This isn't a definite answer if they are hacking but gives u a rough outline of there gaming history, reputation. From there you make a call wether you want to demo someone.

    JUST remember, banning someone for hacking has serious consequences for all future prospects of the competitive nature. you need to be 100% sure they are hacking before proceeding with any consequences.

    AS for scripting, i would advise against banning anyone for them. IF you guys choose to punish people for them. you need to make it extremely clear that they are prohibited and not just "frowned upon" once again however, some people have quick fingers and unless you have alot of experience some people can be punished for no reason at all throwing your personal and server reputation into disrepute.
  • MelancorMelancor Join Date: 2003-12-15 Member: 24415Members Posts: 201 Fully active user
    edited April 2013
    The topic is referring to imba players, hax or not may be secondary. Such players are easily identified after a few minutes of play, but it's hard to make rules on how to deal with them.

    I would kick everyone who does not fit into a certain range of skill on the server - with a friendly advice to join a more pro server.
    Obviously, labelling servers "rookie or not" is COMPLETE BULL (I've been wanting to say that for a while). Four levels might be enough : "Begginner, Intermediate, Advanced, Pro"
  • waflzwaflz Join Date: 2012-09-07 Member: 158459Members Posts: 114 Advanced user
    Appreciate the Advice from everyone.

    @nezz - I could care less if i accidently ban someone for hacking that isnt hacking, pro players or hackers, whatever they are, they both do the same thing to servers; Empty them, no one has any fun.

    The ultimate question here is, how do you tell the difference, and i guess there isnt a good way because the First person Spec is absolutly useless.
    HamletOscarTheCouch
  • turtsmcgurtturtsmcgurt Join Date: 2012-11-01 Member: 165456Members, Reinforced - Supporter Posts: 581 Advanced user
    Melancor wrote: »
    The topic is referring to imba players, hax or not may be secondary. Such players are easily identified after a few minutes of play, but it's hard to make rules on how to deal with them.

    I would kick everyone who does not fit into a certain range of skill on the server - with a friendly advice to join a more pro server.
    Obviously, labelling servers "rookie or not" is COMPLETE BULL (I've been wanting to say that for a while). Four levels might be enough : "Begginner, Intermediate, Advanced, Pro"

    player base isn't even a third as big as it needs to be for this to work properly.
    oplus
  • IeptBarakatIeptBarakat The most difficult name to speak ingame. Join Date: 2009-07-10 Member: 68107Members, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Diamond, Reinforced - Shadow Posts: 2,679 Advanced user
    edited April 2013
    Some of the smurfing needs to lighten up a bit, but outright banning pro players is a tad extreme. I would recommend issuing them a warning and then taking action if they decide to be uncooperative about it. Also a few pro players tend to join new servers to try to help some of the new players get used to the game, so outright banning skillful players could lead to an undesirable effect on the community.

    Just something to think about.
    DecoyOscarTheCouch
  • waflzwaflz Join Date: 2012-09-07 Member: 158459Members Posts: 114 Advanced user
    We dont outright ban pro players, thats not how we do it. The point is, its very hard to tell the difference between the Pro's and third party users.
  • ShinoShino Join Date: 2012-11-26 Member: 173316Members Posts: 86 Fully active user
    The easiest way to find out if someone is a hacker or not is -how- they get their kills.

    A pro player knows that positioning is very very important. They will always check their corners. On a good day, they will have 35% accuracy in a pub, but that's still 1 LMG clip = 2 skulks, maybe with a pistol finish on the third skulk. He will stand back and let the skulks come to them.

    A shitty hacker will run into ambushes constantly, but get carried by 100% accuracy. They will track through walls instead of checking corners. They won't wait for the skulks to come to them, they will go to the skulks. They will twitch aim with the LMG instead of track. They will have 100% accuracy, minus shooting boxes and props allocated across the room.

    If you suspect someone is hacking, just first person spectate them. If they're missing ANYTHING (not due to shooting props of course), they're likely not hacking. Worst comes to worst, ask them to leave. We're used to it.
    GadxBestProfileNameGhosthree3
  • SyknikSyknik InversionNS2.com Join Date: 2002-11-01 Member: 2064Members, Constellation, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Supporter, Reinforced - Shadow Posts: 531 Advanced user
    It is true though that a lot of servers are having a difficult time trying to figure out what they can do for the players who are too skilled for their servers. I think I was told by some National Gaming (NG) admins, that they were going to try to implement a "Competitive" server for the better players to connect too.

    But though that may be a good idea, the fact of the matter is people need to actually connect and play on that server. If i see that a "Competitive" server has 1 player, and a regular "casual" server has 22/24, i'll connect to the 22/24, mainly because i don't want to wait around for a server to get full or to get the server populated, I just want to play.
    Current Team: Lucky Chams - Syknik!
  • XaoXao Join Date: 2012-12-12 Member: 174840Members Posts: 452 Fully active user
    That's a pretty horrible example by Shino that largely only covers most obvious aimbotting, as other people have said between all the aliasing the only real safe method is to track how people make this kills in rounds.

    I can turn on edakulous stream and see he constantly checks map, constantly checks corners and generally pushes objective to objective or he specifically waits out on ambushing higher life forms for sometimes minutes at a time, these things work most of the time and sometimes they fail miserably, point is he's a very knowledgeable player with quite good positioning and ridiculous aim. On the other hand I can think of 3-5 players in public Australian play that are almost the total opposite, their situational awareness is horrible, they never seem to know when or where to push an objective or how to effectively cut off higher alien life forms by thinking ahead of where they are or what they will attack and how to cut them off, they're never the first to enter a room and almost certainly never get caught out by ambushes ever, they seem to make 0 positioning mistakes in even 24player pub servers where just about anything can happen even tho they move around maps and have the xhair discipline of a monkey.

    Yet they roughly have the same scores at the end of the game. These dudes to me tip me off as wallhackers 100%, these are the people going 20-2 as lerk every other game and can't even pancake properly to avoid fire, these are dudes on marines who constantly shoot into objects/walls and begin spiking on lerk a second or 2 early before coming around a corner with absolutely no way of knowing where marines in the room could be. You can catch out great players like edak, or any competitive type player whose legit because they're on a one track mind, they respond to every cue possible while pushing objectives hard, if you really try hard and sit in some weird areas these dudes will run straight past you hauling arse to an RT or something in the next room and you can hit them with the ambush that works nearly every other time, at this point you'll notice they check that area and maybe 1-2 spots near it in case you set your tent up but they'll keep pushing on. Dudes that tip me off on wallhacking run into the entrance of a room or near a doorway and kind of just start camping it, they can't figure out a good reason as to why they'd check where they know a skulk is so they just kind of start standing around staring off into stupid areas, RTs will be getting hit, bases pushed, comms giving out orders and these clowns just decide to crouch camp the most stupid of areas for seemingly no reason normally waiting for a team mate to run through the doorway first so they can follow them after and look up straight at you and blow you away. I'm not talking about the act of standing in choke points on maps because you knew 3-4 aliens died and respawn but specifically on rooms here.

    These are the dudes going 10-2 and realise someone is sitting in spectate and start checking the most useless and random corners religiously despite checking no corners for the last 4-5 mins, they start hiding in base sulking or flat out leave the server, 9/10 legit good players will give 0 fucks for spectators because they have no reason to, they're not trolling anyone spectating them because they think they're suss by AFKing marine spawn.

    As nezz said too checking profiles to get a handle on some players (make sure you're not dealing with an alias) after seeing some suss shit, seeing dudes with 5 friends 35 games installed most being orange box and a MW2 or BloPs 2 with 80 hours played in NS 2 isn't a crime but it sure as hell isn't painting you out to be much of a skilled FPS type player with a checkable background, an abnormally high amount of guys in Australia play on VAC banned accounts which does no wonders for re assuring that they're not doing the same thing in NS 2, your real best bet for getting a handle on people hacking is to simply use the hacks and understand their limitation or tells. Also as nezz said it's rare to see people so stupid they put their cursor on people through the wall anymore but a fucking lot of people will suddenly go from slack mouse position checking nothing running around like a moron to MLG pr0 sn1per once aliens get within 10-15 m of them no matter how little noise the alien made.
  • FrankerZFrankerZ Join Date: 2012-05-06 Member: 151627Members Posts: 163 Advanced user
    competitive pub has been tried over and over and it never worked so far because of what syknik said
  • ezekelezekel Join Date: 2012-11-29 Member: 173589Members, NS2 Map Tester Posts: 1,384 Advanced user
    edited April 2013
    Until sabot (assuming it works) I'd love an NA server 16 slots or less running NSL maps for competitive players. I absolutely hate the 20~ whatever slots but they are the only things out there, can't pug, and can't scrim because I don't really have a team or even know where to ring (I don't think I have the time to be dedicated on a team, regardless if I'm capable of playing high level) so I'm forced to join them and you can clearly see you're ruining the match for all those players by shotgunning 10 skulks in a row or decimating an entire room as fade. I love getting my butt kicked or facing competition

    So I'm for it :) I'd host one myself but the cost is simply too much monthly, not that I can't pay for it it's just too much of a toll
  • waflzwaflz Join Date: 2012-09-07 Member: 158459Members Posts: 114 Advanced user
    Alot of Great input here, Thanks alot Guys
  • dePARAdePARA Join Date: 2011-04-29 Member: 96321Members, Squad Five Blue Posts: 1,351 Advanced user
    I think the possible hackers are not the real problem.

    Players like these are the problem:
    "You are using an aimbot, i was an CS1.6 admin for years and i know what im talking about"
    These people have no clue whats going on in the game but they know 1 thing for sure: the one with the 25-5 stats is a cheater.

    Normally i kick/ban people that dont stop complaining and let the 25-5 guy play.

    Btw
    NS2Stats is a good thing to check a players real ingame nick and stats. It really help to filter possible cheaters.
    image
  • LocklearLocklear [nexzil]kerrigan Join Date: 2012-05-01 Member: 151403Members, NS2 Playtester, NS2 Map Tester, WC 2013 - Shadow Posts: 1,335 Advanced user
    Shino wrote: »
    The easiest way to find out if someone is a hacker or not is -how- they get their kills.

    A pro player knows that positioning is very very important. They will always check their corners. On a good day, they will have 35% accuracy in a pub, but that's still 1 LMG clip = 2 skulks, maybe with a pistol finish on the third skulk. He will stand back and let the skulks come to them.

    A shitty hacker will run into ambushes constantly, but get carried by 100% accuracy. They will track through walls instead of checking corners. They won't wait for the skulks to come to them, they will go to the skulks. They will twitch aim with the LMG instead of track. They will have 100% accuracy, minus shooting boxes and props allocated across the room.

    If you suspect someone is hacking, just first person spectate them. If they're missing ANYTHING (not due to shooting props of course), they're likely not hacking. Worst comes to worst, ask them to leave. We're used to it.

    Only covers aimbotting tbh. There are other issues besides botting. Though this guy says he doesn't care if he bans legit or cheaters so why should we bother with this guy?
    "If great visuals brings players in, great gameplay gets them to stay." - Valve
    Decoy
  • TheriusTherius Join Date: 2009-03-06 Member: 66642Members, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Supporter Posts: 750 Advanced user
    waflz wrote: »
    @nezz - I could care less if i accidently ban someone for hacking that isnt hacking, pro players or hackers, whatever they are, they both do the same thing to servers; Empty them, no one has any fun.

    Could you tell me at which point we should start banning bad players for ruining games for those who know how to play? I know I've had many games where I haven't had fun because of a commander who doesn't know what a medpack is or that guy taking the only fade egg and accidentally dropping off the cliff in crevice.
    zenefblindSide1Bu2Rnz9halfofaheaven
  • joshhhjoshhh Milwaukee, WI Join Date: 2011-06-21 Member: 105717Members, NS2 Playtester, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Supporter, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow, Subnautica Playtester Posts: 1,437 Advanced user
    I have honestly only seen a couple true 'botters in pubs. If you can't pick out a blatant aimbotter, then you must be new to fps games. If you have trouble identifying them, read Shino's post.

    On the other hand, wall/mat hackers are much harder to identify. Wall hacks simply put a pretty colored box around enemies so you can locate them through walls, rather than artificially improving your aim. This makes them extremely hard to identify. In actuality, its next to impossible to pick those out unless you run a similar program on your own PC while first-person speccing them. Even then, experienced players with a good headset might hear a noise and instantly know exactly where you are hiding.

    Also, your "I could care less... ban everyone" quote makes me sad. It seems to be a trend on a lot of the community owned servers in this game.
  • statikgstatikg Join Date: 2012-09-19 Member: 159978Members Posts: 427 Fully active user
    edited April 2013
    I think a good rule of thumb for the stronger players which I follow is if you are the sole determining factor in which team wins 2 games in a row, you should move to another server or start commanding.
    |DFA| HavocStoneburgMontyp
  • ScardyBobScardyBob ScardyBob Join Date: 2009-11-25 Member: 69528Forum Admins, Forum Moderators, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow Posts: 4,983 mod
    joshhh wrote: »
    I have honestly only seen a couple true 'botters in pubs. If you can't pick out a blatant aimbotter, then you must be new to fps games. If you have trouble identifying them, read Shino's post.

    On the other hand, wall/mat hackers are much harder to identify. Wall hacks simply put a pretty colored box around enemies so you can locate them through walls, rather than artificially improving your aim. This makes them extremely hard to identify. In actuality, its next to impossible to pick those out unless you run a similar program on your own PC while first-person speccing them. Even then, experienced players with a good headset might hear a noise and instantly know exactly where you are hiding.

    Also, your "I could care less... ban everyone" quote makes me sad. It seems to be a trend on a lot of the community owned servers in this game.
    I've seen people record demos of potential wall-hackers and then play them back with the wall hack on (fpspecing someone using wallhacks in-game is risky and not desirable imo, but apparently it'd be possible for someone to mod a 'everyone is parasited' mode into the fpspec system).

    However, I've seen people with wallhacks get setup by other players (i.e. they hide in unconventional locations without making a sound and see if the potential wall-hacker 'sees' them when they enter the area).
  • CuelCuel Join Date: 2013-01-22 Member: 181295Members, Reinforced - Shadow Posts: 123 Fully active user
    Shino wrote: »
    The easiest way to find out if someone is a hacker or not is -how- they get their kills.

    A pro player knows that positioning is very very important. They will always check their corners. On a good day, they will have 35% accuracy in a pub, but that's still 1 LMG clip = 2 skulks, maybe with a pistol finish on the third skulk. He will stand back and let the skulks come to them.

    A shitty hacker will run into ambushes constantly, but get carried by 100% accuracy. They will track through walls instead of checking corners. They won't wait for the skulks to come to them, they will go to the skulks. They will twitch aim with the LMG instead of track. They will have 100% accuracy, minus shooting boxes and props allocated across the room.

    If you suspect someone is hacking, just first person spectate them. If they're missing ANYTHING (not due to shooting props of course), they're likely not hacking. Worst comes to worst, ask them to leave. We're used to it.

    Even cs 1.3 had multihacks with options. Most of them can be set up so that aimbot runs only when you press a button, making it look less obvious. And some cheaters only have WH which gives a great advantage against hiding skulks and more.
  • QmotionQmotion Join Date: 2013-04-10 Member: 184734Members Posts: 2
    i got kicked from this server cuz apperently i was using ''wallhack''. Following a lerk into the vent is seen as WALLHACK by these guys. dont waste your time on their server 
    halfofaheaven
  • StrikerX3StrikerX3 Join Date: 2012-11-08 Member: 168423Members, Reinforced - Shadow Posts: 259 Fully active user
    edited May 2013
    I got accused of hacking a few times simply because I use my headphone to know where my enemies are. Go figure.

    I'm gonna call my headphone "wallhack" from now on. Might as well call my mouse "aimbot" to go along.
    .StrikerX3 :: Steam :: YouTube :: Twitch.tv :: Blog
    FuleG_Lock
  • ezekelezekel Join Date: 2012-11-29 Member: 173589Members, NS2 Map Tester Posts: 1,384 Advanced user
    StrikerX3 said:
    I got accused of hacking a few times simply because I use my headphone to know where my enemies are. Go figure.

    I'm gonna call my headphone "wallhack" from now on. Might as well call my mouse "aimbot" to go along.
    I do that to actually troll, I'm banned from pretty much every single counter-strike public server you can name, but when people tell me to stop aimbotting I go, "sure hold on while I unplug my mouse and stare at my monitor"
  • current1ycurrent1y Join Date: 2003-12-08 Member: 24150Members, NS2 Playtester, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Shadow, Subnautica Playtester Posts: 677 Advanced user
    edited May 2013
    Qmotion said:
    i got kicked from this server cuz apperently i was using ''wallhack''. Following a lerk into the vent is seen as WALLHACK by these guys. dont waste your time on their server 
    I know several Div 1 and Div 2 teams who play on tpg servers regularly. I would say you must have had bad luck as I've never seen any admin give any comp player trouble on there. 
    Post edited by current1y on
  • xDragonxDragon Join Date: 2012-04-04 Member: 149948Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Gold, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Shadow Posts: 1,954 Fully active user
    I wouldn't use those criteria even when looking for an aimbotter tbh, just because someone plays carelessly and runs into every ambush but then kills all the skulks doesn't mean they are cheating.  The better judge is how they react once the skulks are in view - are they moving to evade and position themselves best for other skulks that are coming or are they just facerolling around while shooting all the skulks.

    Also catching wallhackers is really a pretty big crapshoot, even setting up specific situations and attempting to 'surprise' someone is never going to be definitive, simply because there are players that have ability that extends beyond just what is visible on the screen/map.  Unless you see them pretty blatantly tracking through walls, or shooting at aliens before they are in view, its best to assume they are not walling.

    As for this specific case, I think their admins could be a little less trigger happy, although I am probably a bad case considering the amount of servers I can no longer play on.
    Underwhelmed
  • Ghosthree3Ghosthree3 Join Date: 2010-02-13 Member: 70557Members, Reinforced - Supporter Posts: 3,432 Advanced user
    StrikerX3 wrote: »
    I got accused of hacking a few times simply because I use my headphone to know where my enemies are. Go figure.

    I'm gonna call my headphone "wallhack" from now on. Might as well call my mouse "aimbot" to go along.

    Dolby wallhack version 7.1
    76561197996992409.png
  • joshhhjoshhh Milwaukee, WI Join Date: 2011-06-21 Member: 105717Members, NS2 Playtester, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Supporter, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow, Subnautica Playtester Posts: 1,437 Advanced user
    You mean marine-who-checks-his-corners.wallhack
  • nezznezz Join Date: 2012-12-11 Member: 174712Members Posts: 291
    checking corners is cheating gawsh
    absu206
  • StrikerX3StrikerX3 Join Date: 2012-11-08 Member: 168423Members, Reinforced - Shadow Posts: 259 Fully active user
    joshhh wrote: »
    You mean marine-who-checks-his-corners.wallhack

    I was playing aliens. But that works too.
    .StrikerX3 :: Steam :: YouTube :: Twitch.tv :: Blog
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