Pitch black might be a bit much considering the limitations of flashlights(Side note if you take the scary orange AV and make it green you could give it to marines, and give aliens back their old AV).
DC_DarklingJoin Date: 2003-07-10Member: 18068Members, Constellation, Squad Five Blue, Squad Five Silver
infestation making it pitch black perhaps.
It looks pretty and sounds interesting, but aliens need some big nerfs, or marines some big buffs with this.
This will screw balance completely. As if aliens didn't have the advantage already.
I agree that it looks cool, but seriously this isn't balance-able. Giving aliens a defensive-advantage like that is overkill.
Maybe don't go fully apeshit with it and instead just increase the black-light phase?
If we would decouple power nodes from powering buildings, they could get a huge health nerf. And thous being light switches. Fast to destroy, fast to repair. (I'm talking of something about 3 - 5 seconds.)
You would see the complete darkness more often.
You had one thing less to spend ages on with biting / welding.
You could use them more often tactically.
It will screw with balance, but that's not necessarily a bad thing. It just means you need to give the marines some way of countering the advantage aliens will get. Ideas like flares or MAC-lights will give them effective counters that are interesting to use. Also, the idea of tying full-darkness to infestation presence makes the advantage less binary.
Overall, +1 to this lighting idea for turning an ok mechanic into something truly interesting and dynamic that really leverages the potential of the engine. Balance is always something that can be tweaked later.
yes yes yes very atmospheric and shows of the full dynamic lightning of the engine perfectly. im interrested to see how it impacts balance, aliens have a advantage in dark rooms, but a lone marine in a dark room is on high alert and likeley calls out/waits for backup. > less lone marines and its harder to surprise/ambush a marine on high alert.
strictly speaking pub here, on a comp level the marines wont realy benefit from that.
Allow alien comm to infest broken powernode, by placing a cyst in the broken socket, and have an anti powersurge ability that cuts out the lights for 3-5 seconds... Have it be a relatively high biomass ability, requiring a mature infested node... Or have it activated by rupturing the socketed cyst.
As the socketed cyst matures have the lighting shift from a red to a yellow/green, to show alien control of the powergrid. A structure in an alien controlled power gride can not be powersurged...
You have to remember that the more alien structures in a room the more the room will actually be lit up from the ambient glow from the structures thus revealing the room up even more so a hive location would be lit up quite well on it's own. Not to mention under my proposal, emergency lighting would come back online with only 10-25 percent repair status on the power node. At 10 percent it's only a few seconds for a single marine to bring up emergency lighting which is what we already deal with as the current mechanic.
Lastly, there are various items that increase light in a room, flashlights, flamethrower, scans (very much so), and other explosions which all add to the atmosphere and really give an opportunity to show the lighting dynamics the engine has the potential for as well as the much deserved tension a game of this genre deserves.
You have to remember that the more alien structures in a room the more the room will actually be lit up from the ambient glow from the structures thus revealing the room up even more so a hive location would be lit up quite well on it's own. Not to mention under my proposal, emergency lighting would come back online with only 10-25 percent repair status on the power node. At 10 percent it's only a few seconds for a single marine to bring up emergency lighting which is what we already deal with as the current mechanic.
Lastly, there are various items that increase light in a room, flashlights, flamethrower, scans (very much so), and other explosions which all add to the atmosphere and really give an opportunity to show the lighting dynamics the engine has the potential for as well as the much deserved tension a game of this genre deserves.
Exactly, it's only really going to hurt lone wolf Marines in an Alien room.
I like the suggestion of making pitch black rooms tied to infestation, because that means you only get it where alien bases are, or the khamm can use contamination at high biomass levels for temporary darkness on a destroyed node. However, it has been my personal opinion for a while that the set up of powernodes is a little wonky, and I would kind of like to see this bring some change to that. Like changing the unbuilt powernode to a destroyable structure or just starting with power already built everywhere. The starting with it built everywhere makes early marine expansion faster and would be quite a large buff to marines, but it may balance out with the perma darkness and perhaps a change to infestation could be made so it could completely destroy a powernode rather than just eroding the armor. Maybe increase the extractor build time as well so it compensates for not worrying about power most of the time. Although one last problem I see is that the marine comm can see which rooms are powered and unpowered, so tying power too heavily to alien marine control could reveal alien bases to the comm, but then again it may improve the effectiveness of sneaky bases with like a gorge tunnel/shade by the hive and avoiding the power so the room stays lit, or at least emergency lighting if going with the infestated power for full darkness idea.
I like the suggestion of making pitch black rooms tied to infestation, because that means you only get it where alien bases are, or the khamm can use contamination at high biomass levels for temporary darkness on a destroyed node. However, it has been my personal opinion for a while that the set up of powernodes is a little wonky, and I would kind of like to see this bring some change to that. Like changing the unbuilt powernode to a destroyable structure or just starting with power already built everywhere. The starting with it built everywhere makes early marine expansion faster and would be quite a large buff to marines, but it may balance out with the perma darkness and perhaps a change to infestation could be made so it could completely destroy a powernode rather than just eroding the armor. Maybe increase the extractor build time as well so it compensates for not worrying about power most of the time. Although one last problem I see is that the marine comm can see which rooms are powered and unpowered, so tying power too heavily to alien marine control could reveal alien bases to the comm, but then again it may improve the effectiveness of sneaky bases with like a gorge tunnel/shade by the hive and avoiding the power so the room stays lit, or at least emergency lighting if going with the infestated power for full darkness idea.
Power nodes starting built everywhere was tried in beta, and evolved into the socket model we have now. The change was made because aliens immediately started dropping power around the map and it was creating unfair advantages for marines right off the bat.
I do like the idea of infestation covering power node = full darkness and no infestation = emergency lighting. I still think the visual look would need to be worked on before it went into the vanilla game though.
Power nodes starting built everywhere was tried in beta, and evolved into the socket model we have now. The change was made because aliens immediately started dropping power around the map and it was creating unfair advantages for marines right off the bat.
I didn't know that was tried in beta. I have never really liked the current power system because there is an initial state that it can never return to later in the game.
unbuilt -> built <-> destroyed always looked weird to me, especially since only the marines could progress it to the main states.
A few different solutions for discouraging aliens from chomping every powernode they see would be to possibly make them start in an unsocketed state, which is destroyable, but but has a lot more armor, so the time spent on it without infestation to eat away at it would prevent those players from denying the marines the rest of the map. This way it is basically the same as the previous state, but either team is capable of progressing it to the main states. It could also help to increase the delay before a powernode can be repaired, but reduce the time it takes to repair it, so that way the time a base remains unpowered remains the same, but marines are less effected by aliens running around the map taking out power in any uncontested area. Another solution might be to make give the khamm an anti powernode that could be a sort of like a harvester in shape, but hanging from a powernode creating the perma dark, could be auto created when infestation covers a powernode. Without one of these node feeders dropped, it would eventually go to auxiliary power, in which it slowly starts auto rebuilding itself, and welders could hasten this. The biggest problem with that last one is the requirement of a new model.
Edit:
Drew some concept art of what this anti powernode might look like. I dubbed it the leech.
Drew some concept art of what this anti powernode might look like. I dubbed it the leech.
That looks awesome, BUT I think an actively infested powernode should not generally prevent usage of the powernode. This would make ninja PGs impossible, because you are unlikely not to notice the attack on the leech. I have too much love for that sort marine play, even as an alien. Anyways, I do like the idea that you have to actively infest a powernode, bound to a ressource cost, because pitchblack RT rooms would be so much more defensible, especially early game, and that advantage should not come by just putting a cyst down. Lets say it should cost 3-5 res. That way hives don't start out with pitch black rooms and still allow marine rushes with egglock.
I also propose that the build up of a powernode kills the infestation >upon completion<, maybe introduce red emergency lighting when powernode > 50%. This should come with prolonged buildtime (*1.5 modifier ?) which also should apply to unbuild powernodes.
aeroripperJoin Date: 2005-02-25Member: 42471NS1 Playtester, Forum Moderators, Constellation
Leech idea is kind of neat. Alien comm can place a leech on power node when there is infestation on it, once its grown the power goes full black. Marines come and shoot the leech, emergency power comes on until a new leech is placed or power node is repaired.
Drew some concept art of what this anti powernode might look like. I dubbed it the leech.
That looks awesome, BUT I think an actively infested powernode should not generally prevent usage of the powernode. This would make ninja PGs impossible, because you are unlikely not to notice the attack on the leech. I have too much love for that sort marine play, even as an alien. Anyways, I do like the idea that you have to actively infest a powernode, bound to a ressource cost, because pitchblack RT rooms would be so much more defensible, especially early game, and that advantage should not come by just putting a cyst down. Lets say it should cost 3-5 res. That way hives don't start out with pitch black rooms and still allow marine rushes with egglock.
I also propose that the build up of a powernode kills the infestation >upon completion<, maybe introduce red emergency lighting when powernode > 50%. This should come with prolonged buildtime (*1.5 modifier ?) which also should apply to unbuild powernodes.
Thanks for reading the second part ^^
Losing ninja phases would be a pretty big downside, although they haven't been nearly as satisfying since marines were allowed to build on infestation. You would still have limited use with the temp power ability, which would be kind of fun, powering the gate up for a few seconds to sneak a squad in. Actually come to think of it that would be a pretty nice tactic in the current build, as aliens wouldn't go looking for a well placed phase if the power was down.
Perhaps the leech could be built and moved kind of like a whip, but only plants down on a powernode. It could be dropped on a node in any state (unbuilt/built/destroyed) and reduces the light by one level (off<-auxiliary<-full, perhaps goes to full dark on unbuilt nodes) and additionally would slowly damage the node it was placed on. It would move slow enough and be weak enough that using it to kill power in contested or marine controlled areas wouldn't be too viable, but it could give extra defense to alien areas. Perhaps there could be some extra effect where flamethrowers or axes would cause it to detach from the node, allowing power to be built. The last ability might make it too weak though, perhaps this could be balanced by having it be electrified while attached, and doing damage to anyone who hits it in melee, or gorges could clog the hell out of the node after the leech gets on.
In this form I don't think it would entirely hinder ninja phases as there is a cost associated with them, so it is unlikely the khamm can afford to put them everywhere, and worst case you just build in an adjacent room. Additionally it is easy for the destruction of a single structure to be lost in the chaos of the mid and late game, though that may be partially due to a buggy commander interface not reporting things like it should. Back when you needed to build off of infestation, against a good khamm you couldn't find an uncysted portion of the room, and had to try and kill a cyst without alien notice. So long as enough other stuff was going on and the cyst wasn't the sole connection for other cysts it was doable.
I like the idea of dropping the power by one light level. However there are 3 light levels:
powered - unbuild - auxiliary - off.
I start liking the idea of the leech more and more. I also propose that leeches drop the power by 1 level unmatured and by 2 levels matured. That way, when you echo in a mature leech onto a marine base node, they still have emergency lighting and echoing in an unmatured leech will do next to nothing.
Also early game stays a little more accessible for rine aggression -> new leeches on unbuild powernodes only drop lighting to auxiliary until mature. If you reallyREALLY want to pitchblack a room as alien com, you can always mist the thing for one more res.
If the nodes are not infested, the leech has gotta lose health or even be unattachable (like whips can't root in uninfested terrain). attached leeches should stay attached and just lose health when the infestation receedes. Health loss should be more rapid than health loss on alien structures. Y'know, cause electricity is bad for you when you are not connected to your hive (also helps rines clear the thing out when in control). However I oppose the idea of leeches being able to move. Not on reasons of balance, but because it looks very static, like an RT.
I agree on the power surged PGs. That play would be even more satisfying.
I do like the idea of a passive defense. When attacked release a small aoe electricity nova every few seconds. This would force the rines to be more cautious and force sacrifice of ammo or health. Also the image of a leech dying from not being on an infested node and squirming and releasing these novas while you just watch it die is pretty awesome in my head ^^
However I oppose the idea of leeches being able to move. Not on reasons of balance, but because it looks very static, like an RT.
I got an idea in my head of replacing those tendrils around the "mouth" that attaches to the node with some spider legs or something, so it crawls around with the sack dangling behind it. Just making the tendrils a little bigger so it moves similar to a whip would work too, but it just doesn't seem as creepy that way. Also I imagine it hopping onto a node, so tendrils don't exactly cut it for that. One other minor detail I was thinking of would be that the sack on its tail would light up same as a harvester, but only while attached to a node. Going to draw some more concept art of this.
okay. next thing is: what exactly would be the purpose of having mobile leeches? the only place they are useful in is on powernodes. yes, you can walk them into a room to jump the power, but honestly, the whole ordeal becomes easier with a simple echo.
I was thinking they would could potentially have other uses, though I am not sure what those would be. Although I initially liked the idea of more mobile leech, I liked it a lot less after drawing it. The legs didn't seem befitting of an alien structure, and additionally made it look similar to many parasitic aliens from different stuff like facehuggers, the flood, and the swarms from dead space. I am thinking either the original design or perhaps using a base similar to the whip. When I get around to it I will scan the images of the legged version and put them up.
I was thinking they would could potentially have other uses.
Well. What about just giving whips a "leech" ability, that makes them permanently punch into a disabled powernode and hook inside there in order to tone the lights down? might be a bit expensive though.
I mentioned this before in a thread I made along time ago, but what if the room's emergency lighting was dependent on other adjacent rooms. The game would start just like it does now with marines having to set up power nodes for there important rooms. But if the aliens, lets say take out the power in Sub Sector the E lights would only come on in Sub Sector if a power node was installed in Overlook or System Way point because these are right next to Sub Sector. Now you don't need to install power nodes in Way point or Overlook to get the power node in Sub sector you only need to get one of these two if you want to see.
If the game is coming to a close and the marines only have Control left and all other power nodes are destroyed, only skylights and topography would have e lights. Now this still allows marines to ninja a phase gate still they don't need to make a chain of rooms, if one was to get past the aliens and get the power up on the other side of the map it would be possible just very dark. Also when he does get the power up lets say Cargo, the adjacent rooms would get there E lights back up.
This way does not mean marines would have to take one room at a time, they can either rush into the dark room or get the power and be able to see. It just depends on the players preference.
*Note this would not effect structure power at all.
I want to see this implemented very much. It would be a whole different feeling when you heard skulks skittering in the darkness than in the bright lights.
This is such an amazing idea, actually lets the game use its dynamic lighting system that the devs worked a long time on. Also adds some more game depth as power nodes start to really mean something, a downed power node can make a room alien controlled by default, even with nothing in it. PROTECT YOUR NODES!
Comments
Pitch black might be a bit much considering the limitations of flashlights(Side note if you take the scary orange AV and make it green you could give it to marines, and give aliens back their old AV).
Well, like anything, testing will show if it's balanced or not. Perhaps it could come free with Advanced Armory.
It looks pretty and sounds interesting, but aliens need some big nerfs, or marines some big buffs with this.
I agree that it looks cool, but seriously this isn't balance-able. Giving aliens a defensive-advantage like that is overkill.
Maybe don't go fully apeshit with it and instead just increase the black-light phase?
If we would decouple power nodes from powering buildings, they could get a huge health nerf. And thous being light switches. Fast to destroy, fast to repair. (I'm talking of something about 3 - 5 seconds.)
You would see the complete darkness more often.
You had one thing less to spend ages on with biting / welding.
You could use them more often tactically.
Overall, +1 to this lighting idea for turning an ok mechanic into something truly interesting and dynamic that really leverages the potential of the engine. Balance is always something that can be tweaked later.
strictly speaking pub here, on a comp level the marines wont realy benefit from that.
As the socketed cyst matures have the lighting shift from a red to a yellow/green, to show alien control of the powergrid. A structure in an alien controlled power gride can not be powersurged...
Lastly, there are various items that increase light in a room, flashlights, flamethrower, scans (very much so), and other explosions which all add to the atmosphere and really give an opportunity to show the lighting dynamics the engine has the potential for as well as the much deserved tension a game of this genre deserves.
Exactly, it's only really going to hurt lone wolf Marines in an Alien room.
i would like to see the return of the pulsing/dimming red emergency lights from beta though.
Power nodes starting built everywhere was tried in beta, and evolved into the socket model we have now. The change was made because aliens immediately started dropping power around the map and it was creating unfair advantages for marines right off the bat.
I do like the idea of infestation covering power node = full darkness and no infestation = emergency lighting. I still think the visual look would need to be worked on before it went into the vanilla game though.
I didn't know that was tried in beta. I have never really liked the current power system because there is an initial state that it can never return to later in the game.
unbuilt -> built <-> destroyed always looked weird to me, especially since only the marines could progress it to the main states.
A few different solutions for discouraging aliens from chomping every powernode they see would be to possibly make them start in an unsocketed state, which is destroyable, but but has a lot more armor, so the time spent on it without infestation to eat away at it would prevent those players from denying the marines the rest of the map. This way it is basically the same as the previous state, but either team is capable of progressing it to the main states. It could also help to increase the delay before a powernode can be repaired, but reduce the time it takes to repair it, so that way the time a base remains unpowered remains the same, but marines are less effected by aliens running around the map taking out power in any uncontested area. Another solution might be to make give the khamm an anti powernode that could be a sort of like a harvester in shape, but hanging from a powernode creating the perma dark, could be auto created when infestation covers a powernode. Without one of these node feeders dropped, it would eventually go to auxiliary power, in which it slowly starts auto rebuilding itself, and welders could hasten this. The biggest problem with that last one is the requirement of a new model.
Edit:
Drew some concept art of what this anti powernode might look like. I dubbed it the leech.
Anyways, I do like the idea that you have to actively infest a powernode, bound to a ressource cost, because pitchblack RT rooms would be so much more defensible, especially early game, and that advantage should not come by just putting a cyst down. Lets say it should cost 3-5 res. That way hives don't start out with pitch black rooms and still allow marine rushes with egglock.
I also propose that the build up of a powernode kills the infestation >upon completion<, maybe introduce red emergency lighting when powernode > 50%. This should come with prolonged buildtime (*1.5 modifier ?) which also should apply to unbuild powernodes.
Thanks for reading the second part ^^
Losing ninja phases would be a pretty big downside, although they haven't been nearly as satisfying since marines were allowed to build on infestation. You would still have limited use with the temp power ability, which would be kind of fun, powering the gate up for a few seconds to sneak a squad in. Actually come to think of it that would be a pretty nice tactic in the current build, as aliens wouldn't go looking for a well placed phase if the power was down.
Perhaps the leech could be built and moved kind of like a whip, but only plants down on a powernode. It could be dropped on a node in any state (unbuilt/built/destroyed) and reduces the light by one level (off<-auxiliary<-full, perhaps goes to full dark on unbuilt nodes) and additionally would slowly damage the node it was placed on. It would move slow enough and be weak enough that using it to kill power in contested or marine controlled areas wouldn't be too viable, but it could give extra defense to alien areas. Perhaps there could be some extra effect where flamethrowers or axes would cause it to detach from the node, allowing power to be built. The last ability might make it too weak though, perhaps this could be balanced by having it be electrified while attached, and doing damage to anyone who hits it in melee, or gorges could clog the hell out of the node after the leech gets on.
In this form I don't think it would entirely hinder ninja phases as there is a cost associated with them, so it is unlikely the khamm can afford to put them everywhere, and worst case you just build in an adjacent room. Additionally it is easy for the destruction of a single structure to be lost in the chaos of the mid and late game, though that may be partially due to a buggy commander interface not reporting things like it should. Back when you needed to build off of infestation, against a good khamm you couldn't find an uncysted portion of the room, and had to try and kill a cyst without alien notice. So long as enough other stuff was going on and the cyst wasn't the sole connection for other cysts it was doable.
powered - unbuild - auxiliary - off.
I start liking the idea of the leech more and more. I also propose that leeches drop the power by 1 level unmatured and by 2 levels matured. That way, when you echo in a mature leech onto a marine base node, they still have emergency lighting and echoing in an unmatured leech will do next to nothing.
Also early game stays a little more accessible for rine aggression -> new leeches on unbuild powernodes only drop lighting to auxiliary until mature. If you reallyREALLY want to pitchblack a room as alien com, you can always mist the thing for one more res.
If the nodes are not infested, the leech has gotta lose health or even be unattachable (like whips can't root in uninfested terrain). attached leeches should stay attached and just lose health when the infestation receedes. Health loss should be more rapid than health loss on alien structures. Y'know, cause electricity is bad for you when you are not connected to your hive (also helps rines clear the thing out when in control). However I oppose the idea of leeches being able to move. Not on reasons of balance, but because it looks very static, like an RT.
I agree on the power surged PGs. That play would be even more satisfying.
I do like the idea of a passive defense. When attacked release a small aoe electricity nova every few seconds. This would force the rines to be more cautious and force sacrifice of ammo or health. Also the image of a leech dying from not being on an infested node and squirming and releasing these novas while you just watch it die is pretty awesome in my head ^^
I got an idea in my head of replacing those tendrils around the "mouth" that attaches to the node with some spider legs or something, so it crawls around with the sack dangling behind it. Just making the tendrils a little bigger so it moves similar to a whip would work too, but it just doesn't seem as creepy that way. Also I imagine it hopping onto a node, so tendrils don't exactly cut it for that. One other minor detail I was thinking of would be that the sack on its tail would light up same as a harvester, but only while attached to a node. Going to draw some more concept art of this.
If the game is coming to a close and the marines only have Control left and all other power nodes are destroyed, only skylights and topography would have e lights. Now this still allows marines to ninja a phase gate still they don't need to make a chain of rooms, if one was to get past the aliens and get the power up on the other side of the map it would be possible just very dark. Also when he does get the power up lets say Cargo, the adjacent rooms would get there E lights back up.
This way does not mean marines would have to take one room at a time, they can either rush into the dark room or get the power and be able to see. It just depends on the players preference.
*Note this would not effect structure power at all.
This is such an amazing idea, actually lets the game use its dynamic lighting system that the devs worked a long time on. Also adds some more game depth as power nodes start to really mean something, a downed power node can make a room alien controlled by default, even with nothing in it. PROTECT YOUR NODES!
I am more than all for this.