So uhh... Fade Vortex & Stab. They don't seem terribly useful.
Idleray
Join Date: 2012-10-04 Member: 161464Members, Reinforced - Shadow
Join Date: 2012-10-04 Member: 161464Members, Reinforced - Shadow
So apparently after you make the vortex, the first attack with Slash teleports you back.
This makes no sense... isn't the whole point of vortex to let you fight a bit and then switch to your GTFO button? Why would I want to TP home after the first attack? Am I using this ability right?
As for stab.... I don't understand why Blink is LOCKED OUT when you begin the motion.
It also does way too little damage and is just clunky in general.
160 is alot! You might say; but Stab is unlocked at Biomass level EIGHT, which is mid-late game, when it will no longer one-shot any marine, and the attack is clunky because in the late game you're facing jps and exos and Stab is strictly worse than default Swipe against both of those for different reasons (one's too fast, the other one you can't afford to stay still and channel a Stab against)
The way I see it, for Stab to be valuable, you have to have it unlocked early game, have any combination of Phantom, Celerity or Shadowstep, and the scripting ought to be reworked for it to be more user-friendly.
This makes no sense... isn't the whole point of vortex to let you fight a bit and then switch to your GTFO button? Why would I want to TP home after the first attack? Am I using this ability right?
As for stab.... I don't understand why Blink is LOCKED OUT when you begin the motion.
It also does way too little damage and is just clunky in general.
160 is alot! You might say; but Stab is unlocked at Biomass level EIGHT, which is mid-late game, when it will no longer one-shot any marine, and the attack is clunky because in the late game you're facing jps and exos and Stab is strictly worse than default Swipe against both of those for different reasons (one's too fast, the other one you can't afford to stay still and channel a Stab against)
The way I see it, for Stab to be valuable, you have to have it unlocked early game, have any combination of Phantom, Celerity or Shadowstep, and the scripting ought to be reworked for it to be more user-friendly.
Comments
I just don't bother with stab. It's a late game ability when my fps drops too low to be able to make any real use of it.
Not altogether but I'm seeing myself choosing Lerk over Fade quite often nowadays. I just don't find it as enjoyable to go Fade anymore.
Exactly like me. I used to play Fade in competitive matches back in Season 2, when Shadowstep+jump was the norm.
b250 Fade was just ridiculously OP. Now it's just ridiculously unenjoyable. Not only that, but very limited in what you can do for the team. The fact that structure damage was lowered to be almost on par with the Gorge spit means it's very ineffective at killing structures. Every other lifeform can do that job just fine, some better than others. As far as I can tell, killing structures is far more important than killing marines in this game. So yeah, no matter how godly your fading skills are, you're still going to be less useful than, say, an average Lerk who prefers to bite extractors instead of distracting marines.
Some competitive players say the Fade is fine now. I can't see how that can be true when you can spend 20 more res and get a lifeform that can almost end the game by itself given the opportunity, or spend 10 less res for a lifeform that can still destroy structures in addition to buffing your team and being reasonably effective at killing marines or at least keeping them distracted. If the objective of the nerfs were to prevent fadeballs, then they succeded.
Back on topic: I think Vortex and Stab would be great if they weren't too expensive and clunky. Stab in particular comes too late to be effective, or even used at all.
Evil circle, you dont go fade upgrade because ppl cant use it because there is no chance to learn. Its not like the people that cant learn how to use vortex reasonable well are effective fades anyway. If you know how to play a fade effectively you will figure out vortex fun resonably fast.
The only real use for Vortex is being extremely annoying, unless people figure out how to place it in the same room and keep attacking after they teleport? I'm sure there are other ways to use it that no one's caught on to yet. The comp players should figure it out soon enough.
Stab, though, I agree with all of your points.
I have one idea that would certainly make things interesting... Change stab and make it do no damage, but instead teleport the Marine with the Fade to the vortex point. They could rename it pull or return, something along those lines.
It would make both abilities useful. Marines would have a chance to kill the Fade after being teleported. (and then potentially be behind enemy lines and able to set up a ninja phase gate) and Fades would have a separate skill to teleport them back instead of having it linked to their attack.
So that looks pretty cool
I'm not interested in making them better players, that's a long term commitment and I'm only playing a short term game. If I give them the rope, they'll just hang themselves with it, so I'm just being careful not to give them enough.
Honestly though, even I can't figure out a way to use vortex to IMPROVE my combat effectiveness. If you throw it down around a corner it might help your survival but it significantly decreases your ability to actually kill anything, and it tempts certain players into entering more dangerous areas because they think the vortex will save them.
Or more likely, you'd have fades dropping marines into Lava/death traps constantly.
Nice! That's exactly what I meant.. I knew there had to be some clever girls out there terrorizing teams with this. Did the devs even anticipate fades would use it this way? I'm sure they probably thought about it... I wonder how much it will change things after catching on with the majority of fade players?
If Vortex didn't have a huge glowing "I AM GOING TO TELEPORT HERE GUYS" indicator it would be a lot more useful.
I don't see how, it would teleport the Fade and Marine to the same spot, so they'd be killing themselves in the process. I doubt many players would go Fade just to kamikaze for 1 Marine kill.
No, the fade can use blink to escape. the marine would drop to his/her death before they even realized what happened.
Damn, didn't think of that.
Maybe prevent the Fade from using blink for 1-2 seconds after teleporting (just long enough to ensure they'd fall to death with the Marine) - That would also give the Marine a slightly better chance to win the battle.
I dunno, it just sounds like it would be a neat gameplay mechanic.
My only solution to really fix the fade is to bring back the CORE Fade Ideals:
Weapon 1 - Swipe
Weapon 2 - Metabolize (meditate restoring Health and minor Adren at a fixed percentage
Weapon 3 - Stab (NS2) I think this is an amazing idea and I love it versus the original Acid rocket upgrade from NS1
Shift ability - Fade Shift (NS2) Another Great idea but was nerfed and removed until late play. this makes fades slower in a sense but In my opinion I never really knew why it was removed other then "It was unbalanced cause fades didn't need blink" well I think it should just be re-looked at to make Shift a more short range ability versus blink . Shift animations should be like your seeing multiple shadow copies of the fade moving in short 3-4 foot bursts to confuse a solo enemy or a slow reacting enemy.
Blink: the original long range travel concept of : <Blink> ~~~~~~~Invisible teleporting tunnel (maybe invisible animation or distorted?)~~~~~~~ <Blink Exit> to sneak around marine defenses cause that's what fades are for, killing personnel where they think their safe not to be used as a evolved sulk. Blink in a sense is like a teleporting ability to move yourself to another section of the room where you aim near instantaneously versus walking or shifting to avoid fire.
Is this true? The marines can't see the vortex?
One thing to keep in mind is that the damage numbers have changed a bit in this current build, instead of showing up on your screen always they show up above the target that you hit... so sometimes if you vortex away right after a hit it can be hard to see the damage numbers. The damage numbers are apparently going to switch back to the old style in the next patch.
Why would we need to dumb a mechanic down when it's not crucial for being an effective fade? Nobody's going to quit playing the fade because they can't utilise something like vortex to a maximum, so why should we take the satisfaction and advantage away from those who can? Sounds like a terrible idea.
Atm for me it is to get a swipe or stab in on a marine in a exo camp and then be out harms way before the exo can finish me.. I cant even remotely do the combat vortex I see folk use.
Perhaps it would be nice if we could use blink while stabbing? As when the ability is activated?
Every ability should be crucial. Vortex deserves better than just being a way for top tier players to show off. More importantly, the current implementation often tricks players into wasting their time with ineffective poking tactics, making them a liability to the team.