so alien comm's ability to create infestation where ever he wants is complete trash... can you say bombard whip echo strat for the win... complete bullshit
Why damage indicators not centered on crosshair anymore? Kind of difficult to tell if I get a hit as alien now.
Why Does the name of marine float away from them in commander view depending on their direction they face? I habitually use the name of marine to drop meds and not their model. Now if I aim for the floating name, meds regularly miss. Seems liek a change that wasn't needed.
I might get used to new AV. But that combined with new alien movement makes for frustrating gameplay. I am getting tired of relearning movement every 3 months
so alien comm's ability to create infestation where ever he wants is complete trash... can you say bombard whip echo strat for the win... complete bullshit
I'm ok with very little of this patch...
actually if i read it right, it requires 9 biomass...at which point the game is (mostly) over anyway.
also hugely not a fan of the change to where damage is drawn on screen.
Fade movement changes seem unnecessary. The problem isn't that the fade is OP, the problem is that you have an alien team all go fade at the same time. Seems to me like UWE doesn't understand the root cause of the balance issues, and they are implementing nerfs to fix a problem that is caused for another reason. As a result, fade really isn't that fun to play anymore. You're slow, you have energy management problems, and you're a much bigger target for shotgun blasts than a skulk. Play the game and tell me that the fade feels like an agile, stealthy assassin. It doesn't.
Here's a scenario that happens all the time.
Map: ns2_tram
Teams: 8v8
Type: Pub
Aliens secure the top half of the map, 5 harvesters. Marines the bottom, 4-5 extractors. Fades pop at 6 minutes, marines maybe have level 1 weapon and armor + shotguns, if they're lucky. 2-3 aliens go fade at the same time. Pub gameplay is extremely disorganized so you rarely have groups of marines following each other around. These 2-3 fades thrash marines who are randomly scattered throughout the map, causing marines to lose any or all map control. Because fades are too weak to dominate marine start, marines turtle, get some more tech out. The game sludges forward for another 15-20 minutes unnecessarily until the aliens, through means of shear frustration, finally work together to end the marine base.
The above scenario describes most of the balance issues seen in 251. Now we have UWE with a patch that totally nerfs the aliens because of the balance discrepancy, mainly due to pubs, so we have a less fun version of the game. Do you really think it's fun and satisfying to play as aliens now?
There needs to be more focus on encouraging teamplay through gameplay innately. I like what was done with the welders, but there needs to be more ways to force people to work and communicate to each other rather than throwing up hints like "Stick together to succeed!" I don't know what these systems should be, but it's clear to me that it's needed.
And yes, I played several rounds since the patch was released, since this seems to be everyone's favorite way of trashing others' opinions.
Woo!
Probably the final update I do to my NS2 server while running it by wine, native next
Edit:
Can't test if server is working by joining as I'm at work.
A couple messages come up in server console, I assume I can ignore them?
The halo_green.model one I've been ignoring for a couple patches now.
Error: Couldn't open file 'models/effects/halo_green.model'
Building pathing mesh for level maps/ns2_docking.level
Finished loading 'maps/ns2_docking.level'
Error: The animation model specified for 'models/marine/grenades/female_gr_nerve_view_special.model' doesn't have the same bones as the target model
Animation model doesn't have bone 'play_cam'
Error: The animation model specified for 'models/marine/grenades/female_gr_nerve_view_deluxe.model' doesn't have the same bones as the target model
Animation model doesn't have bone 'play_cam'
If anyone can test, the server IP is: edit: can't get it to work, people who join get the following: Client disconnected (<ip> Your game files do not match the server's. Try verifying your game cache in Steam, or maybe an update just came out.
I verified files at server side, that particlar player could join other b252 servers, I'll try testing some more when I'm back home.
I have to agree with a previous poster that it was certainly time for a Fade nerf. While I'm sure many talented Fade players are upset, even a mediocre player like myself could roflstomp with a Fade.
Simply put - one individual player shouldn't have that much power, and the pre-252 Fade was too powerful. Over the last several weeks, a Fade going 40-5 or something similar was commonplace. One really good Fade could control an entire part of the map or game. I typically don't like to see nerfs that penalize really good players, but I think the Fade was getting a little too out of hand.
NarfwakJoin Date: 2002-11-02Member: 5258Members, Super Administrators, Forum Admins, NS1 Playtester, Playtest Lead, Forum Moderators, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Supporter, Reinforced - Silver, Reinforced - Gold, Reinforced - Diamond, Reinforced - Shadow, Subnautica PT Lead, NS2 Community Developer
Try running r_stats in console and see if you're getting unusually high frame latency (the number in milliseconds after your FPS) when you're experiencing what seems like changes to movement or "floaty" game feel.
That. Sounds. AWESOME! Can't wait to try it today. How does bone shield work?
Alien nerf was needed. Weaker fades mean they need to play together now too. You can't balance a life form around itself as a single hunter or you will have them overpowered as soon as 3 bunch together and use teamplay. I think it is the right choice to nerf them so they need teamplay to overcome marines that use teamplay. I don't think you have problems with lone marines as fade now.
But who cares. The "They nerfed my loved class! It is now more difficult for me!"-whiners will come in anyway. No matter that the aliens needed a nerf in mid-late game to make it interesting again.
Anyway. I hope the animation and physics aren't to broken to have fun for this two days now.
Exo beacon is probably the worst thing I've seen in this game.
Make exo train > kill hive > beacon > repeat ad nauseum until all hives are dead > GG.
Alien movement does feel different, literally every person I've played with has said that. It feels like skulk and lerk have more mass/momentum. Fades are slow but that's fine with me, celerity brings them back up to a respectable speed and you're still fast enough to get the job done. I don't like that fades were nerfed and tres fade eggs were pushed back to the third hive, though. It seems a little excessive. Your fades are probably going to be dying more often because they're easier to hit now.. and they're harder to replace.
Honestly, I feel like this game has become too much of a complicated mess to fix. It's only going to become more cumbersome and complicated to balance and fix the previously existing complications.
I think the heart of the problem lies with the resource situation and the decision to create an alien kharamander. Since there are two separate res systems at work, UWE has tried to figure out how to balance them between two asymmetrical sides. Since an alien kharamander now exists, this role needs to be able to spend TRes on things that benefit the team, but in different ways than the marines.
Aliens live and die by PRes, whereas marines live and die by TRes, which is the core of the original Natural Selection. Since TRes and PRes are unchained, meaning that although they are generated from the same source, they are independent and operate in separate pools, making it beyond difficult to determine how to make the gameplay fair for both sides, if the resource situation is identical.
How do you balance a 40 PRes fade with 10 PRes in upgrades and Biomass 5 from TRes kharamander expenditures vs. a 35 PRes jetpack + shotgun marine and Level 2 weapons and armor from TRes commanader expenditures? This is so confusing to analyze mathematically that it seems UWE is guessing as to what could improve balance issues instead of using hard data and calculations to determine the best modifications necessary to make the teams more even.
But whatever, UWE will keep shotgunning blindly into rooms without power hoping to hit something as they add more unnecessary elements to their game, isolating both hardcore players who are sick of mindless changes and noobs who are beyond overwhelmed by the learning curve.
Only played a couple of rounds thus far. Mostly everyone was put off by not having any working first person animations, which made it very difficult to play Skulk and Lerk effectively. That might have been one possible reason for people feeling that things felt "floaty".
Wasn't the only issue, though. The game wouldn't let me drop a single cyst on the map. Perhaps because of this new tutorial that comes up just because I have "Commander Help" enabled (which is not a "I want a tutorial"-button to me but just the ability to get a little faster access to everything by having it appear as icons directly on the play field). Or perhaps because the server was running NS2Stats.
As for Bone Shield: it reduces all incoming front damage on the Onos by a set percentage. Costs energy to keep it active and slows the Onos down/prevents it from attacking.
Yep. Really doesn't need to be on biomass 9. That's a little ridiculous. MAYBE biomass 5 or 6 or something, but biomass 9 doesn't even happen in most games.
But that combined with new alien movement makes for frustrating gameplay. I am getting tired of relearning movement every 3 months
Fade was the only alien that had any kind of movement tweaks done to it this patch.
maybe not overtly, but I stick to every damn surface as a skulk, and my glancing wall jumps have to be even more glancing or I mess up my momentum. either some additional variables are at play, or you've got some bugs, but it is most definitely not the same as prepatch. someone said something about the Linux reconciliation messing with all movement in general.
Also, Skulks are faintly gnarling now while being idle. Have yet to find out if it's loud enough for careful marines to notice when I am hanging in some corner on the ceiling.
Commander has had personal res taken away and there's a one minute lockout before the commander can accrue res again after leaving the chair. No more gorging to tend your hive early game. Plus it's frustrating is someone just wants to jump in and build something.
so alien comm's ability to create infestation where ever he wants is complete trash... can you say bombard whip echo strat for the win... complete bullshit
I'm ok with very little of this patch...
Can you say viable base breaking ability for the aliens that stops the 2 hour long pointless 4 hive sieges that end in a concede?
One theme I don't like with this patch is the constant back tracking with regards to design philosophies that were seemingly set in stone previously. I don't mind if certain mechanics don't float my own personal boat, all that I ask is that UWE remain dedicated to their vision and find a way to make it work. Introducing HMGs, allowing Exos to beacon, these represent a lack of belief in the vision they originally had. And I'm not talking about "oh we tried something this way now lets try it another way", as with lifeform movement or the ability to sprint or something like that. These were core game principles that have now seemingly been tossed aside.
I hope there is still some direction here, rather than urgent triage taking place.
While Exos can beacon now (not sure how that's going to play out) HMGs aren't in the game currently, not unless they're planning on saving that for the 30th. However, given that not even the leaks from NS2Aus even mentioned them, I'm not sure they'll even be in game.
Comments
lack of patch notes
I'm ok with very little of this patch...
Why Does the name of marine float away from them in commander view depending on their direction they face? I habitually use the name of marine to drop meds and not their model. Now if I aim for the floating name, meds regularly miss. Seems liek a change that wasn't needed.
I might get used to new AV. But that combined with new alien movement makes for frustrating gameplay. I am getting tired of relearning movement every 3 months
And beacon exos?
actually if i read it right, it requires 9 biomass...at which point the game is (mostly) over anyway.
also hugely not a fan of the change to where damage is drawn on screen.
I'm also feeling the mice and aiming is a bit floaty. Does it have to do with the PhysX GPU option in General options?
Fade movement changes seem unnecessary. The problem isn't that the fade is OP, the problem is that you have an alien team all go fade at the same time. Seems to me like UWE doesn't understand the root cause of the balance issues, and they are implementing nerfs to fix a problem that is caused for another reason. As a result, fade really isn't that fun to play anymore. You're slow, you have energy management problems, and you're a much bigger target for shotgun blasts than a skulk. Play the game and tell me that the fade feels like an agile, stealthy assassin. It doesn't.
Here's a scenario that happens all the time.
Map: ns2_tram
Teams: 8v8
Type: Pub
Aliens secure the top half of the map, 5 harvesters. Marines the bottom, 4-5 extractors. Fades pop at 6 minutes, marines maybe have level 1 weapon and armor + shotguns, if they're lucky. 2-3 aliens go fade at the same time. Pub gameplay is extremely disorganized so you rarely have groups of marines following each other around. These 2-3 fades thrash marines who are randomly scattered throughout the map, causing marines to lose any or all map control. Because fades are too weak to dominate marine start, marines turtle, get some more tech out. The game sludges forward for another 15-20 minutes unnecessarily until the aliens, through means of shear frustration, finally work together to end the marine base.
The above scenario describes most of the balance issues seen in 251. Now we have UWE with a patch that totally nerfs the aliens because of the balance discrepancy, mainly due to pubs, so we have a less fun version of the game. Do you really think it's fun and satisfying to play as aliens now?
There needs to be more focus on encouraging teamplay through gameplay innately. I like what was done with the welders, but there needs to be more ways to force people to work and communicate to each other rather than throwing up hints like "Stick together to succeed!" I don't know what these systems should be, but it's clear to me that it's needed.
And yes, I played several rounds since the patch was released, since this seems to be everyone's favorite way of trashing others' opinions.
Probably the final update I do to my NS2 server while running it by wine, native next
Edit:
Can't test if server is working by joining as I'm at work.
A couple messages come up in server console, I assume I can ignore them?
The halo_green.model one I've been ignoring for a couple patches now.
If anyone can test, the server IP is: edit: can't get it to work, people who join get the following: Client disconnected (<ip> Your game files do not match the server's. Try verifying your game cache in Steam, or maybe an update just came out.
I verified files at server side, that particlar player could join other b252 servers, I'll try testing some more when I'm back home.
Simply put - one individual player shouldn't have that much power, and the pre-252 Fade was too powerful. Over the last several weeks, a Fade going 40-5 or something similar was commonplace. One really good Fade could control an entire part of the map or game. I typically don't like to see nerfs that penalize really good players, but I think the Fade was getting a little too out of hand.
Alien nerf was needed. Weaker fades mean they need to play together now too. You can't balance a life form around itself as a single hunter or you will have them overpowered as soon as 3 bunch together and use teamplay. I think it is the right choice to nerf them so they need teamplay to overcome marines that use teamplay. I don't think you have problems with lone marines as fade now.
But who cares. The "They nerfed my loved class! It is now more difficult for me!"-whiners will come in anyway. No matter that the aliens needed a nerf in mid-late game to make it interesting again.
Anyway. I hope the animation and physics aren't to broken to have fun for this two days now.
Make exo train > kill hive > beacon > repeat ad nauseum until all hives are dead > GG.
Alien movement does feel different, literally every person I've played with has said that. It feels like skulk and lerk have more mass/momentum. Fades are slow but that's fine with me, celerity brings them back up to a respectable speed and you're still fast enough to get the job done. I don't like that fades were nerfed and tres fade eggs were pushed back to the third hive, though. It seems a little excessive. Your fades are probably going to be dying more often because they're easier to hit now.. and they're harder to replace.
I think the heart of the problem lies with the resource situation and the decision to create an alien kharamander. Since there are two separate res systems at work, UWE has tried to figure out how to balance them between two asymmetrical sides. Since an alien kharamander now exists, this role needs to be able to spend TRes on things that benefit the team, but in different ways than the marines.
Aliens live and die by PRes, whereas marines live and die by TRes, which is the core of the original Natural Selection. Since TRes and PRes are unchained, meaning that although they are generated from the same source, they are independent and operate in separate pools, making it beyond difficult to determine how to make the gameplay fair for both sides, if the resource situation is identical.
How do you balance a 40 PRes fade with 10 PRes in upgrades and Biomass 5 from TRes kharamander expenditures vs. a 35 PRes jetpack + shotgun marine and Level 2 weapons and armor from TRes commanader expenditures? This is so confusing to analyze mathematically that it seems UWE is guessing as to what could improve balance issues instead of using hard data and calculations to determine the best modifications necessary to make the teams more even.
But whatever, UWE will keep shotgunning blindly into rooms without power hoping to hit something as they add more unnecessary elements to their game, isolating both hardcore players who are sick of mindless changes and noobs who are beyond overwhelmed by the learning curve.
Wasn't the only issue, though. The game wouldn't let me drop a single cyst on the map. Perhaps because of this new tutorial that comes up just because I have "Commander Help" enabled (which is not a "I want a tutorial"-button to me but just the ability to get a little faster access to everything by having it appear as icons directly on the play field). Or perhaps because the server was running NS2Stats.
As for Bone Shield: it reduces all incoming front damage on the Onos by a set percentage. Costs energy to keep it active and slows the Onos down/prevents it from attacking.
Yep. Really doesn't need to be on biomass 9. That's a little ridiculous. MAYBE biomass 5 or 6 or something, but biomass 9 doesn't even happen in most games.
maybe not overtly, but I stick to every damn surface as a skulk, and my glancing wall jumps have to be even more glancing or I mess up my momentum. either some additional variables are at play, or you've got some bugs, but it is most definitely not the same as prepatch. someone said something about the Linux reconciliation messing with all movement in general.
http://www.twitch.tv/virsoul/c/2830719
Can you say viable base breaking ability for the aliens that stops the 2 hour long pointless 4 hive sieges that end in a concede?
One theme I don't like with this patch is the constant back tracking with regards to design philosophies that were seemingly set in stone previously. I don't mind if certain mechanics don't float my own personal boat, all that I ask is that UWE remain dedicated to their vision and find a way to make it work. Introducing HMGs, allowing Exos to beacon, these represent a lack of belief in the vision they originally had. And I'm not talking about "oh we tried something this way now lets try it another way", as with lifeform movement or the ability to sprint or something like that. These were core game principles that have now seemingly been tossed aside.
I hope there is still some direction here, rather than urgent triage taking place.