In relative terms BT is way more complex than vanilla.
How? I want to know how.
Marines? Every day marine, you still run around and shoot aliens. You still build stuff. No difference there.
Marine commander? Tech tree is shuffled around a little but not reinvented.
Marine weapons? No new ones, but the olds ones actually are worthwhile, nor worthless.
Aliens? A lot of skulks still run along the floor, good ones still walljump, great ones do it faster. Fades? Instead of shadowstep jump jump, its blink jump jump. Wow, MASSIVE CHANGE. CANT HANDLE IT, OMG. Onos? Still a giant tank.
Alien tech? slowed down a little, still the same upgrades. Actually, aliens have the freedom to go any upgrade they want and have it viable unlike now. Right now you have to go carapace in a competitive match and sometimes shift in a 24 (too big) player server, but thats only for the eggs. So no, its not more complex, you're just making up crap as usual.
Again... You give no specifics and merely make a claim without any example or evidence??
Bullshit. The perspective of my friends who play on the upcoming balance test is evidence. You and the devs can take it or leave it, I'm not going to debate a fanboy. Just because you don't like it doesn't mean that I made it up or it isn't representative of how some people feel about the game. How about you or anyone else arguing for the BT to replace vanilla bring some evidence that it is more casual friendly if you care about evidence so much.
First off let me say I prob only have 20 hrs total over the whole course of playing the balance mod, so I'm still new to it but I feel I can answer your question. I could say marine, skulk and lerk movement is more newbie friendly. The skulk seems to do the job of lowering the skill floor and raising the skill ceiling at the same time.
Marine movement is more friendly to aliens since you don't have hopping marines that can out jump skulks at close range. This fact alone means I'll be able to rambo a bit less in pubs since a pack of skulks will have a larger chance at taking me down since I can't dance around them to avoid them. For Skulk at first I was approaching it like i had to use A/D to go any where since that's what I had been reading on the forums but it's actually not the case. When you just press w and walljump like live you will noticeably gain speed. It feels much easier and more retarding as hold w and jump player in the balance mod then live. Lerk is fairly similar in flight characteristics except you could say its more newbie friendly becuase you can accelerate quicker when flapping. This provides better escape maneuvers. For the naturally a lower HP lifeform it's nice to have some escape ability.
Aura is also an ability that will GREATLY help the casual gamer. Give your casual gamer limited range wallhacks that tell them the marines HP (as in low, medium and high) and you will greatly improve their survivabiltiy. No more running around a corner into 4 shotgun marines. No going around a corner to a shotgunner camping the corner to blast your 30 pres lerk.
As much as I hate to fucking admit it but the wider bullet spread will also help your casual gamer get kills up close since they don't have to track skulks pixel perfect. This lowers the skill floor at the cost of reducing the skill ceiling.
I'm sure I could think of more things if I played more of the mod.
Well, I totally disagree with what you said. The marines movement/air control is actually very very weird, since you can jump and change your direction while in the air. Skulk's movements are really fine, I'd not say better but just different. But the Lerk... seriously, this is a real joke. Stabilize yourself during fights is WAY harder than before. I play Lerk almost every games on Live, and I can say that this is not intuitive at all on BT. Spiking while dodging rifles is now a real pain. If you add the fact that celerity works in fight you got a really hard to control Lerk. You have the feeling to be in space. Try to fly at the same altitude without moving: that was easy, that's not anymore.
Plus they really lack of armor. This is a start/mid game lifeform, so biomass isn't reaserched yet, and even with armor you get pretty much raped by shotguns (which come after around 7 minutes) at 15 meters range.
Again... You give no specifics and merely make a claim without any example or evidence??
Bullshit. The perspective of my friends who play on the upcoming balance test is evidence. You and the devs can take it or leave it, I'm not going to debate a fanboy. Just because you don't like it doesn't mean that I made it up or it isn't representative of how some people feel about the game. How about you or anyone else arguing for the BT to replace vanilla bring some evidence that it is more casual friendly if you care about evidence so much.
First off let me say I prob only have 20 hrs total over the whole course of playing the balance mod, so I'm still new to it but I feel I can answer your question. I could say marine, skulk and lerk movement is more newbie friendly. The skulk seems to do the job of lowering the skill floor and raising the skill ceiling at the same time.
Marine movement is more friendly to aliens since you don't have hopping marines that can out jump skulks at close range. This fact alone means I'll be able to rambo a bit less in pubs since a pack of skulks will have a larger chance at taking me down since I can't dance around them to avoid them. For Skulk at first I was approaching it like i had to use A/D to go any where since that's what I had been reading on the forums but it's actually not the case. When you just press w and walljump like live you will noticeably gain speed. It feels much easier and more retarding as hold w and jump player in the balance mod then live. Lerk is fairly similar in flight characteristics except you could say its more newbie friendly becuase you can accelerate quicker when flapping. This provides better escape maneuvers. For the naturally a lower HP lifeform it's nice to have some escape ability.
Aura is also an ability that will GREATLY help the casual gamer. Give your casual gamer limited range wallhacks that tell them the marines HP (as in low, medium and high) and you will greatly improve their survivabiltiy. No more running around a corner into 4 shotgun marines. No going around a corner to a shotgunner camping the corner to blast your 30 pres lerk.
As much as I hate to fucking admit it but the wider bullet spread will also help your casual gamer get kills up close since they don't have to track skulks pixel perfect. This lowers the skill floor at the cost of reducing the skill ceiling.
I'm sure I could think of more things if I played more of the mod.
Well, I totally disagree with what you said. The marines movement/air control is actually very very weird, since you can jump and change your direction while in the air. Skulk's movements are really fine, I'd not say better but just different. But the Lerk... seriously, this is a real joke. Stabilize yourself during fights is WAY harder than before. I play Lerk almost every games on Live, and I can say that this is not intuitive at all on BT. Spiking while dodging rifles is now a real pain. If you add the fact that celerity works in fight you got a really hard to control Lerk. You have the feeling to be in space. Try to fly at the same altitude without moving: that was easy, that's not anymore.
Plus they really lack of armor. This is a start/mid game lifeform, so biomass isn't reaserched yet, and even with armor you get pretty much raped by shotguns (which come after around 7 minutes) at 15 meters range.
Yeah, I agree that the lerk needs a little work yet. Not massive changes but a little work to help keep the in-air movement under control is gonna help a lot. Also from what I've seen this last weekend in the balance mod cup it was the lmgs doing a lot of the work on lerks not shottys! So lerks getting owned by pretty much anything!
Marine movement is more friendly to aliens since you don't have hopping marines that can out jump skulks at close range. This fact alone means I'll be able to rambo a bit less in pubs since a pack of skulks will have a larger chance at taking me down since I can't dance around them to avoid them.
I think this is more a matter of you'll have to actually bother to position yourself correctly now (like before the skulk movement nerf). This seems like a coin flip as to whether it will work out to be more or less casual friendly, especially if you consider it may make one side more casual friendly and one side less.
For Skulk at first I was approaching it like i had to use A/D to go any where since that's what I had been reading on the forums but it's actually not the case. When you just press w and walljump like live you will noticeably gain speed. It feels much easier and more retarding as hold w and jump player in the balance mod then live.
I don't agree that skulk is more casual friendly, especially compared to say pre-gorgeous before they basically wrecked it for casuals. Weird bunny hopping is less obvious than what we have now/had then. The problem with vanilla is it's almost not worth wall jumping. Skulk is such a brick it's almost anti-everyone, and you basically have to count on the marine missing.
Lerk is fairly similar in flight characteristics except you could say its more newbie friendly becuase you can accelerate quicker when flapping. This provides better escape maneuvers. For the naturally a lower HP lifeform it's nice to have some escape ability.
Disagree, I'd say lerk is in a pretty good place right now for casuals already, minus how hard aiming spikes seems to be compared to say the machinegun. BT lerk might be different but I don't think any easier.
Aura is also an ability that will GREATLY help the casual gamer. Give your casual gamer limited range wallhacks that tell them the marines HP (as in low, medium and high) and you will greatly improve their survivabiltiy. No more running around a corner into 4 shotgun marines. No going around a corner to a shotgunner camping the corner to blast your 30 pres lerk.
Agree, auto is pretty dumb but will definitely help casuals so there is that.
As much as I hate to fucking admit it but the wider bullet spread will also help your casual gamer get kills up close since they don't have to track skulks pixel perfect. This lowers the skill floor at the cost of reducing the skill ceiling.
This is probably more casual friendly. Hard to say what will happen when it hits live though as it's basically a random element. Some hits will miss, some misses will hit.
Shotgun got nerfed against skulk and buffed vs fades (casuals love to get one shot by a shotgun)
It arguably fires so fast in BT now casuals will still get owned by it. Removing some of the one shot kills might skew perception a bit temporarily about how casual unfriendly shotgun is, but will it have any real effect over the long term.
- the removal of glancing bites (it is way easier to kill marines, and you don't need to be imba pro at alien movement, you just need to be sneaky like before)
I don't agree. Other people have mentioned how the whole glancing bites thing was done to death in the beta. At best the jury is still out of the final effect of this when it hits live. Basically another coin toss.
- the self weld (most comp players would argue it should be taken out, yet it is still in because of feedback of casual players who were afraid of not getting welded on pub servers)
Band aid for for another dumb anti-casual change of armories not healing armor.
I don't know why everyone is saying that the BT bhop (its not bhop) affects casual players at all. We all know casual players don't use advanced movement. At least in BT they can walk on walls faster than walking on the ground, giving them some motivation to get off the damn floor. Not to mention you jump off the wall at 7-9.5 speed now. How is that not casual friendly?
Yeah, I agree that the lerk needs a little work yet. Not massive changes but a little work to help keep the in-air movement under control is gonna help a lot. Also from what I've seen this last weekend in the balance mod cup it was the lmgs doing a lot of the work on lerks not shottys! So lerks getting owned by pretty much anything!
Movements mechanics for Lerks are really fine in Live, I don't get the purpose of this new "feeling in space". And yes, Imgs pretty much rape you because of your lack of armor. Try playing Lerk with for exemple armor two+biomass 2. Face SG+rifle, die. If they aim good you have no chance. So everybody will answer "you are not supposed to be at melee range but to spike behind the skulks". Okay why not, but considering that the in-air movement control is really hard... And let's not talk after 15m when they have Jets SGs flames exos etc.
either balance the game around large player sizes or don't let people play beyond 6v6
the (North American) community is not hardcore gamers. nobody plays at the recommended player counts
the armory nerf and increased marine spawn times just make an already ridiculous situation even worse
the game is already dead unless you want to play 12v12 or something
marines have no strategy left... by the time you can spend res on anything other than infantry portals, the game is already going to be over based on which team was stacked
either balance the game around large player sizes or don't let people play beyond 6v6
the (North American) community is not hardcore gamers. nobody plays at the recommended player counts
the armory nerf and increased marine spawn times just make an already ridiculous situation even worse
the game is already dead unless you want to play 12v12 or something
marines have no strategy left... by the time you can spend res on anything other than infantry portals, the game is already going to be over based on which team was stacked
In my opinion, they should make competitive matches 8v8 at the very least. The only reason they play 6v6 is because other games play like that.
The "Self weld while welding something else" effect is not something I agree with. The main issue I have with it, is that it may be not obvious to a new player and its almost like a hidden behind the scenes mechanic.
Agree about the "nanite-induced self-weld". Sure, it's there to help casual players out a bit if nobody else in their team brought a Welder and the comm didn't get a MAC for them. But it makes no frickin' sense whatsoever and is completely hidden.
Why not put self-weld on the alternate attack button when the welder is equipped? Make a new animation for it - maybe the right arm welding the left arm's armor? Should be very discoverable, and very clear once discovered.
UI aside, I don't see the gameplay purpose of self-weld-while-welding-structures. And while I do get the arguments against self-weld in general, I maintain that having self-weld at a very slow rate is a good thing to have in the game.
What's the point of assisting solos when recapping but not assisting solos doing anything else? I.e. why tie self-weld to welding structures instead of just having plain old self-weld?
In my opinion, they should make competitive matches 8v8 at the very least. The only reason they play 6v6 is because other games play like that.
8v8 is pretty ridiculous. Plus having extra people on the field makes each person less important which is not typically something you would want for competitive play.
In my opinion, they should make competitive matches 8v8 at the very least. The only reason they play 6v6 is because other games play like that.
Wrong.
Low player counts for competitive matches are so that individual skill surpasses mass numbers, its easier to have the required amount of people online to scrim, range vs melee games hit a point where range beats melee every time when too many people play. NS1 would of probably been 5v5 just like CS, however they added +1 due to commander.
self weld while repairing structures ..... is .... the .... dumbest .... thing .... ever.
either .... allow self welding whenever and balance it by making it really slow and only allowing you to self weld 30-50% of the damaged armor.
or .... dont have self welding :P
im really tired of silly ideas slipping into the game ... like babblers -_-
ScatterJoin Date: 2012-09-02Member: 157341Members, Squad Five Blue
I think higher player counters were tried in TF2 but it turned out to be more spammy and thus scheit.
Also, it's hard enough to organise 6 per side at a certain time, 8 people would be a nightmare and would reduce the overall number of clans around. This would not be positive for the competitive community.
self weld while repairing structures ..... is .... the .... dumbest .... thing .... ever.
either .... allow self welding whenever and balance it by making it really slow and only allowing you to self weld 30-50% of the damaged armor.
or .... dont have self welding :P
im really tired of silly ideas slipping into the game ... like babblers -_-
We wouldn't be having these problems if Armories repaired armor. :P
We wouldn't be having these problems if Armories repaired armor. :P
It's one of those most retardedly anti-casual changes possible, the end result of which is guaranteed to be most people running around without armor most of the time.
Hands up if you are constantly taking two-bites in what looks like one instant due to shitty netcode/lag/teh internet/packetloss/whatever. Without armor it'll be like you are instakilled. We know how people love that! (shotguns).
Just because you don't like IT doesn't mean that I made it up
Made up what, though?? Everyone keeps asking you what IT is??
You're seriously not communicating what you have a problem with..
You've just given an opinion with no actual way to address it.. After which you get hostile with those who are genuinely asking what needs addressing in order to fix it??
Sewlek, the creator of the BT mod has been highly receptive to feedback given, from all avenues willing to give it.
Its been said in here before by the OP , posters in here, but i'll repeat it again for you:
"Andi has made wide consultation an absolute priority. Competitive players, public players, casters, team captains… He has sat and watched countless games, read mountains of feedback, and spent long hours pondering what makes for good play. His objective has been to both increase the depth of NS2 play: Variety of build orders, viability of alternate strategies; and to make gameplay more fun: Removing abusable mechanisms, creating more enjoyable scenarios".
The devs seem to have the time to poll the opinions of competitve players, and terribad "playtesters" such as yourself. How about they redirect that effort into polling new or casual players
It just sounds like you are actively ignoring (as in not reading the thread you just posted in) the information provided to you, offering a vague opinion on the matter, giving no actual way for Sewlek to correct what you experience to be lacking, (further supporting your claims of not being listened to?) insult everyone who supports the mod, or disagrees with you through name calling and foul language and then somehow..somehow... blame the player count on bug finding play testers... Wow.
But don't worry, this is the place where casual player feedback that you have to offer can be heard... so please, begin whenever ready. (Hint: see @laglight 's post as an example)
Edit: Just saw you gave armor from armories as feedback/ one reason, cool - fyi that's something that has been debated to death in these forums previously. I used to agree with that notion on paper, but in practice so far it seems to work out alright, especially with the additions to the UI, price of welders, and being able to request welding.
Andi has made wide consultation an absolute priority. Competitive players, public players, casters, team captains...
What methods have been used to get the opinions of casual players? I doubt most of them either post on the forums or play the BT mod, so how has it been done?
If it has somehow been done, why does it seem like he is ignoring them? Many of the changes don't make sense in the context of improving the game to attract casual players.
Which of the changes being made are not being done so at the suggestion of competitive players (or team captains, isn't that one group?). I wouldn't expect casters to come up with anything helpful in terms of growing the playerbase. There are only two good ones I would even trust to know what is going on in a game more than 50% of the time.
Andi has made wide consultation an absolute priority. Competitive players, public players, casters, team captains...
What methods have been used to get the opinions of casual players? I doubt most of them either post on the forums or play the BT mod, so how has it been done?
If it has somehow been done, why does it seem like he is ignoring them? Many of the changes don't make sense in the context of improving the game to attract casual players.
Have you gone through or at least skimmed the behemoth that is the 78-page thread titled Sewlek's Balance mod? This isn't meant to be sarcastic or hostile, since even I have only very briefly skimmed the thread every now and then and don't know the full reasoning behind all of the changes, but if you've only read the possible upcoming patch notes and are basing all your complaints on them, it seems to me that you would either come to terms with the changes by seeing the rationale behind them or find justification for your accusations of casual players being ignored from there.
Andi has made wide consultation an absolute priority. Competitive players, public players, casters, team captains...
What methods have been used to get the opinions of casual players? I doubt most of them either post on the forums or play the BT mod, so how has it been done?
If it has somehow been done, why does it seem like he is ignoring them? Many of the changes don't make sense in the context of improving the game to attract casual players.
Have you gone through or at least skimmed the behemoth that is the 78-page thread titled Sewlek's Balance mod? This isn't meant to be sarcastic or hostile, since even I have only very briefly skimmed the thread every now and then and don't know the full reasoning behind all of the changes, but if you've only read the possible upcoming patch notes and are basing all your complaints on them, it seems to me that you would either come to terms with the changes by seeing the rationale behind them or find justification for your accusations of casual players being ignored from there.
Very few casuals ever come to these forums. Most didn't even know about the balance mod until the "Proposed Balance Changes" blog came about a few days ago.
Andi has made wide consultation an absolute priority. Competitive players, public players, casters, team captains...
What methods have been used to get the opinions of casual players? I doubt most of them either post on the forums or play the BT mod, so how has it been done?
If it has somehow been done, why does it seem like he is ignoring them? Many of the changes don't make sense in the context of improving the game to attract casual players.
Have you gone through or at least skimmed the behemoth that is the 78-page thread titled Sewlek's Balance mod? This isn't meant to be sarcastic or hostile, since even I have only very briefly skimmed the thread every now and then and don't know the full reasoning behind all of the changes, but if you've only read the possible upcoming patch notes and are basing all your complaints on them, it seems to me that you would either come to terms with the changes by seeing the rationale behind them or find justification for your accusations of casual players being ignored from there.
Very few casuals ever come to these forums. Most didn't even know about the balance mod until the "Proposed Balance Changes" blog came about a few days ago.
My point was that you can find the reasoning of why some of the changes have catered to casuals instead of or as well as pro players, even if casuals hadn't actually voiced their opinion. At least I hope you can.
I am a casual player, and I'm unequivocally behind the armory not healing armor change. The help that it gave people like me was far outwayed by the skewed perception of the game it also gave - as shown by countless newbie teammates, who learned to run back to base to heal every time they got damaged instead of continuing the attack and/or bringing welders along.
That said, I'm kind of iffy about bringing over EVERYTHING that's been implemented. I'll agree that it makes the game more complex and probably more fun for competitive players, but honestly the balance mod also has a lot of elements that simply are unintuitive (which is saying something considering how hard the game is to learn already), like being able to heal your own armor by welding others, the drifter building change or the arbitrary damage reduction applied to dual railgun exos. It feels more like a mod than a polished game in many areas, which is fine for the mod obviously but will reflect poorly if simply released into the game proper.
I am a casual player, and I'm unequivocally behind the armory not healing armor change. The help that it gave people like me was far outwayed by the skewed perception of the game it also gave - as shown by countless newbie teammates, who learned to run back to base to heal every time they got damaged instead of continuing the attack and/or bringing welders along.
That said, I'm kind of iffy about bringing over EVERYTHING that's been implemented. I'll agree that it makes the game more complex and probably more fun for competitive players, but honestly the balance mod also has a lot of elements that simply are unintuitive (which is saying something considering how hard the game is to learn already), like being able to heal your own armor by welding others, the drifter building change or the arbitrary damage reduction applied to dual railgun exos. It feels more like a mod than a polished game in many areas, which is fine for the mod obviously but will reflect poorly if simply released into the game proper.
I believe most likely only the best parts will be taken over to the live version, I believe that makes the most sense, adds more depth, but doesn't completely remove the good things of the vanilla version. I believe Sewlek only made the mod to test things which worked and which didn't, just so happens that quite of the new ideas worked, but I'm quite sure UWE will try to balance it out.
I am a casual player, and I'm unequivocally behind the armory not healing armor change. The help that it gave people like me was far outwayed by the skewed perception of the game it also gave - as shown by countless newbie teammates, who learned to run back to base to heal every time they got damaged instead of continuing the attack and/or bringing welders along.
That said, I'm kind of iffy about bringing over EVERYTHING that's been implemented. I'll agree that it makes the game more complex and probably more fun for competitive players, but honestly the balance mod also has a lot of elements that simply are unintuitive (which is saying something considering how hard the game is to learn already), like being able to heal your own armor by welding others, the drifter building change or the arbitrary damage reduction applied to dual railgun exos. It feels more like a mod than a polished game in many areas, which is fine for the mod obviously but will reflect poorly if simply released into the game proper.
I believe most likely only the best parts will be taken over to the live version, I believe that makes the most sense, adds more depth, but doesn't completely remove the good things of the vanilla version. I believe Sewlek only made the mod to test things which worked and which didn't, just so happens that quite of the new ideas worked, but I'm quite sure UWE will try to balance it out.
You clearly haven't seen the news post where BT is replacing vanilla.
Andi has made wide consultation an absolute priority. Competitive players, public players, casters, team captains...
What methods have been used to get the opinions of casual players? I doubt most of them either post on the forums or play the BT mod, so how has it been done?
If it has somehow been done, why does it seem like he is ignoring them? Many of the changes don't make sense in the context of improving the game to attract casual players.
Have you gone through or at least skimmed the behemoth that is the 78-page thread titled Sewlek's Balance mod? This isn't meant to be sarcastic or hostile, since even I have only very briefly skimmed the thread every now and then and don't know the full reasoning behind all of the changes, but if you've only read the possible upcoming patch notes and are basing all your complaints on them, it seems to me that you would either come to terms with the changes by seeing the rationale behind them or find justification for your accusations of casual players being ignored from there.
That this guy has not read or participated in said thread kind of backs up his point more than yours.
Comments
How? I want to know how.
Marines? Every day marine, you still run around and shoot aliens. You still build stuff. No difference there.
Marine commander? Tech tree is shuffled around a little but not reinvented.
Marine weapons? No new ones, but the olds ones actually are worthwhile, nor worthless.
Aliens? A lot of skulks still run along the floor, good ones still walljump, great ones do it faster. Fades? Instead of shadowstep jump jump, its blink jump jump. Wow, MASSIVE CHANGE. CANT HANDLE IT, OMG. Onos? Still a giant tank.
Alien tech? slowed down a little, still the same upgrades. Actually, aliens have the freedom to go any upgrade they want and have it viable unlike now. Right now you have to go carapace in a competitive match and sometimes shift in a 24 (too big) player server, but thats only for the eggs. So no, its not more complex, you're just making up crap as usual.
Well, I totally disagree with what you said. The marines movement/air control is actually very very weird, since you can jump and change your direction while in the air. Skulk's movements are really fine, I'd not say better but just different. But the Lerk... seriously, this is a real joke. Stabilize yourself during fights is WAY harder than before. I play Lerk almost every games on Live, and I can say that this is not intuitive at all on BT. Spiking while dodging rifles is now a real pain. If you add the fact that celerity works in fight you got a really hard to control Lerk. You have the feeling to be in space. Try to fly at the same altitude without moving: that was easy, that's not anymore.
Plus they really lack of armor. This is a start/mid game lifeform, so biomass isn't reaserched yet, and even with armor you get pretty much raped by shotguns (which come after around 7 minutes) at 15 meters range.
Yeah, I agree that the lerk needs a little work yet. Not massive changes but a little work to help keep the in-air movement under control is gonna help a lot. Also from what I've seen this last weekend in the balance mod cup it was the lmgs doing a lot of the work on lerks not shottys! So lerks getting owned by pretty much anything!
Hyperbole! It's up to people like you to bring evidence. Blah blah blah.
/Oh wait, that only happens for people who don't think the BT mod is the best thing since sliced bread.
I think this is more a matter of you'll have to actually bother to position yourself correctly now (like before the skulk movement nerf). This seems like a coin flip as to whether it will work out to be more or less casual friendly, especially if you consider it may make one side more casual friendly and one side less.
I don't agree that skulk is more casual friendly, especially compared to say pre-gorgeous before they basically wrecked it for casuals. Weird bunny hopping is less obvious than what we have now/had then. The problem with vanilla is it's almost not worth wall jumping. Skulk is such a brick it's almost anti-everyone, and you basically have to count on the marine missing.
Disagree, I'd say lerk is in a pretty good place right now for casuals already, minus how hard aiming spikes seems to be compared to say the machinegun. BT lerk might be different but I don't think any easier.
Agree, auto is pretty dumb but will definitely help casuals so there is that.
This is probably more casual friendly. Hard to say what will happen when it hits live though as it's basically a random element. Some hits will miss, some misses will hit.
It arguably fires so fast in BT now casuals will still get owned by it. Removing some of the one shot kills might skew perception a bit temporarily about how casual unfriendly shotgun is, but will it have any real effect over the long term.
I don't agree. Other people have mentioned how the whole glancing bites thing was done to death in the beta. At best the jury is still out of the final effect of this when it hits live. Basically another coin toss.
Band aid for for another dumb anti-casual change of armories not healing armor.
Movements mechanics for Lerks are really fine in Live, I don't get the purpose of this new "feeling in space". And yes, Imgs pretty much rape you because of your lack of armor. Try playing Lerk with for exemple armor two+biomass 2. Face SG+rifle, die. If they aim good you have no chance. So everybody will answer "you are not supposed to be at melee range but to spike behind the skulks". Okay why not, but considering that the in-air movement control is really hard... And let's not talk after 15m when they have Jets SGs flames exos etc.
the (North American) community is not hardcore gamers. nobody plays at the recommended player counts
the armory nerf and increased marine spawn times just make an already ridiculous situation even worse
the game is already dead unless you want to play 12v12 or something
marines have no strategy left... by the time you can spend res on anything other than infantry portals, the game is already going to be over based on which team was stacked
In my opinion, they should make competitive matches 8v8 at the very least. The only reason they play 6v6 is because other games play like that.
UI aside, I don't see the gameplay purpose of self-weld-while-welding-structures. And while I do get the arguments against self-weld in general, I maintain that having self-weld at a very slow rate is a good thing to have in the game.
8v8 is pretty ridiculous. Plus having extra people on the field makes each person less important which is not typically something you would want for competitive play.
Wrong.
Low player counts for competitive matches are so that individual skill surpasses mass numbers, its easier to have the required amount of people online to scrim, range vs melee games hit a point where range beats melee every time when too many people play. NS1 would of probably been 5v5 just like CS, however they added +1 due to commander.
either .... allow self welding whenever and balance it by making it really slow and only allowing you to self weld 30-50% of the damaged armor.
or .... dont have self welding :P
im really tired of silly ideas slipping into the game ... like babblers -_-
Also, it's hard enough to organise 6 per side at a certain time, 8 people would be a nightmare and would reduce the overall number of clans around. This would not be positive for the competitive community.
We wouldn't be having these problems if Armories repaired armor. :P
It's one of those most retardedly anti-casual changes possible, the end result of which is guaranteed to be most people running around without armor most of the time.
Hands up if you are constantly taking two-bites in what looks like one instant due to shitty netcode/lag/teh internet/packetloss/whatever. Without armor it'll be like you are instakilled. We know how people love that! (shotguns).
You're seriously not communicating what you have a problem with..
You've just given an opinion with no actual way to address it.. After which you get hostile with those who are genuinely asking what needs addressing in order to fix it??
Sewlek, the creator of the BT mod has been highly receptive to feedback given, from all avenues willing to give it.
Its been said in here before by the OP , posters in here, but i'll repeat it again for you:
"Andi has made wide consultation an absolute priority. Competitive players, public players, casters, team captains… He has sat and watched countless games, read mountains of feedback, and spent long hours pondering what makes for good play. His objective has been to both increase the depth of NS2 play: Variety of build orders, viability of alternate strategies; and to make gameplay more fun: Removing abusable mechanisms, creating more enjoyable scenarios".
So when you say things like It just sounds like you are actively ignoring (as in not reading the thread you just posted in) the information provided to you, offering a vague opinion on the matter, giving no actual way for Sewlek to correct what you experience to be lacking, (further supporting your claims of not being listened to?) insult everyone who supports the mod, or disagrees with you through name calling and foul language and then somehow..somehow... blame the player count on bug finding play testers... Wow.
But don't worry, this is the place where casual player feedback that you have to offer can be heard... so please, begin whenever ready. (Hint: see @laglight 's post as an example)
Edit: Just saw you gave armor from armories as feedback/ one reason, cool - fyi that's something that has been debated to death in these forums previously. I used to agree with that notion on paper, but in practice so far it seems to work out alright, especially with the additions to the UI, price of welders, and being able to request welding.
What methods have been used to get the opinions of casual players? I doubt most of them either post on the forums or play the BT mod, so how has it been done?
If it has somehow been done, why does it seem like he is ignoring them? Many of the changes don't make sense in the context of improving the game to attract casual players.
Which of the changes being made are not being done so at the suggestion of competitive players (or team captains, isn't that one group?). I wouldn't expect casters to come up with anything helpful in terms of growing the playerbase. There are only two good ones I would even trust to know what is going on in a game more than 50% of the time.
Have you gone through or at least skimmed the behemoth that is the 78-page thread titled Sewlek's Balance mod? This isn't meant to be sarcastic or hostile, since even I have only very briefly skimmed the thread every now and then and don't know the full reasoning behind all of the changes, but if you've only read the possible upcoming patch notes and are basing all your complaints on them, it seems to me that you would either come to terms with the changes by seeing the rationale behind them or find justification for your accusations of casual players being ignored from there.
Noob esa come play and stop parenting
Very few casuals ever come to these forums. Most didn't even know about the balance mod until the "Proposed Balance Changes" blog came about a few days ago.
My point was that you can find the reasoning of why some of the changes have catered to casuals instead of or as well as pro players, even if casuals hadn't actually voiced their opinion. At least I hope you can.
That said, I'm kind of iffy about bringing over EVERYTHING that's been implemented. I'll agree that it makes the game more complex and probably more fun for competitive players, but honestly the balance mod also has a lot of elements that simply are unintuitive (which is saying something considering how hard the game is to learn already), like being able to heal your own armor by welding others, the drifter building change or the arbitrary damage reduction applied to dual railgun exos. It feels more like a mod than a polished game in many areas, which is fine for the mod obviously but will reflect poorly if simply released into the game proper.
I believe most likely only the best parts will be taken over to the live version, I believe that makes the most sense, adds more depth, but doesn't completely remove the good things of the vanilla version. I believe Sewlek only made the mod to test things which worked and which didn't, just so happens that quite of the new ideas worked, but I'm quite sure UWE will try to balance it out.
You clearly haven't seen the news post where BT is replacing vanilla.