I don't question that there are people out there who do use scripts/macros to fast fire their pistols. However, I cannot recollect ANY death I've had where I have suspected my killer of using this.
I can imagine how frustrating it would be, though - absolutely. It sounds from these forums as though Australia is a really terrible place to play NS2 compared with... well, everywhere else in the world!
I don't question that there are people out there who do use scripts/macros to fast fire their pistols. However, I cannot recollect ANY death I've had where I have suspected my killer of using this.
I can imagine how frustrating it would be, though - absolutely. It sounds from these forums as though Australia is a really terrible place to play NS2 compared with... well, everywhere else in the world!
Their morality system must be all upside down over there. :P
I don't question that there are people out there who do use scripts/macros to fast fire their pistols. However, I cannot recollect ANY death I've had where I have suspected my killer of using this.
Because of the sound suppression on death, and latency regarding sound playing, it typically manifests as suddenly dying followed by a very strange sounding bang, as all the pistol shot sounds play at once. It usually feels like a lag death.
I find this simple fact is often overlooked when discussing the pistol script. Speed aside, having to click each shot influences aim. It takes a little skill not to get jumpy and pull your shots off target, especially in close quarters. The script is bullshit because all you need to do is get your aim right for a split second.
I play exclusively on EU servers. If anyone's wondering. There's at least one scripter in every game, but rarely that few.
Remember that EU in general is a lot more competitive in almost any game than for example NA. I can pick any EU server on the list and know that there will be at least two enemies on there that will give me a good challenge, but if I go to an NA server I pretty much expect to rofl-wtfstomp everybody. Thus, there will always be more people willing to abuse things like these in EU. Also, Eastern Euro countries have like no morals.
Meh, idk if they can fix scripting... like people changing skins to make them stand out more...
Of course they can. You can't make a "bite script" for the Skulk, because there is a hard cooldown on bite. Just like pistol needs.
Agree 100%.
A small hard cooldown is exactly what pistols need.
Small enought to allow good players to still fire pretty fast,but big enought to prevent script abuse.
I play exclusively on EU servers. If anyone's wondering. There's at least one scripter in every game, but rarely that few.
Remember that EU in general is a lot more competitive in almost any game than for example NA. I can pick any EU server on the list and know that there will be at least two enemies on there that will give me a good challenge, but if I go to an NA server I pretty much expect to rofl-wtfstomp everybody. Thus, there will always be more people willing to abuse things like these in EU. Also, Eastern Euro countries have like no morals.
I find this post really offensive.
I should add that I also play on EU servers most of the time (I'm based in the UK), and based on strofix's description of pistol script deaths, I can be almost positive that I have never been killed by such a pistrol script/macro in the ~300h I've played since launch.
I agree with Roobubba. ~600h here and I haven't been knowingly killed by such a script too. You should really stop to exaggerate and make up stuff, when you want a real discussion.
Despite that, I think an increased cooldown wouldn't damage anyone. It doesn't suddenly get less skillful.
Before, the skill was to click M1 really fast and keep aiming for this time. With a cooldown of 0.2 or 0.3 seconds, the skill will be to hit the timing right and keep aiming for this time. I don't see a problem in such a decreased rate of fire, and it would ban those occasional scripters.
I play exclusively on EU servers. If anyone's wondering. There's at least one scripter in every game, but rarely that few.
Remember that EU in general is a lot more competitive in almost any game than for example NA. I can pick any EU server on the list and know that there will be at least two enemies on there that will give me a good challenge, but if I go to an NA server I pretty much expect to rofl-wtfstomp everybody. Thus, there will always be more people willing to abuse things like these in EU. Also, Eastern Euro countries have like no morals.
I find this post really offensive.
I should add that I also play on EU servers most of the time (I'm based in the UK), and based on strofix's description of pistol script deaths, I can be almost positive that I have never been killed by such a pistrol script/macro in the ~300h I've played since launch.
His description of those deaths isn't all-encompassing. You don't have to wait til dead to hear it. You can tell if the marine missed you with the first shot and when fighting other skulks. You're probably just used to marines emptying their pistols in 0.4s.
As for the post being 'offensive', I'll agree that it was a bit generalizing towards eastern Europeans, I'll grant you that, but I live in Norway where 99% of the crime is done by roving Lithuanian, Romanian and Polish people, exploiting the schengen to pass over the border to break into people's houses and crap. But that's a different topic.
Go play any server (particularly Monash, look for clan tags) in Australia for 2 hours and tell me there's no pistol scripting, zzz.
The difference in 'culture' between US/EU and AU is like night and day, most people in the former realised team stacking and things like pistol macro/scripting would kill off a lot of interest in the game and be bad in general and actively set out to shame/stop it, AU was completely different, team stacking and pistol scripts were encouraged and passed on between clan members, you would see people clanless for weeks/months, join a clan, next night be using fully automatic pistol forever more.
I'm not saying pistol macros are ruining NS2 in general but they've already ruined Aus servers, admins or admin privileged people even use them on the most popular servers which should give you an indicator of how far spread they are.
I play exclusively on EU servers. If anyone's wondering. There's at least one scripter in every game, but rarely that few.
Remember that EU in general is a lot more competitive in almost any game than for example NA. I can pick any EU server on the list and know that there will be at least two enemies on there that will give me a good challenge, but if I go to an NA server I pretty much expect to rofl-wtfstomp everybody. Thus, there will always be more people willing to abuse things like these in EU. Also, Eastern Euro countries have like no morals.
I find this post really offensive.
I should add that I also play on EU servers most of the time (I'm based in the UK), and based on strofix's description of pistol script deaths, I can be almost positive that I have never been killed by such a pistrol script/macro in the ~300h I've played since launch.
His description of those deaths isn't all-encompassing. You don't have to wait til dead to hear it. You can tell if the marine missed you with the first shot and when fighting other skulks. You're probably just used to marines emptying their pistols in 0.4s.
As for the post being 'offensive', I'll agree that it was a bit generalizing towards eastern Europeans, I'll grant you that, but I live in Norway where 99% of the crime is done by roving Lithuanian, Romanian and Polish people, exploiting the schengen to pass over the border to break into people's houses and crap. But that's a different topic.
If 99% of crime in Norway is committed by non-Norwegians, I will eat my computer. That sounds like a ridiculously prejudiced and borderline racist exaggeration, and is the point that I find most offensive.
Regarding the pistol scripts - I am used to people firing their pistols fast, but never have I thought that they were using a script (I fire my pistol fast, and miss about as many shots as most people when I do so, and no I don't use any for of script or macro to do this). I haven't ever been killed in such a short time in a way that even invites suspicion, so I really have to question the premise here that this is really widespread. (Not counting Aus here as I haven't ever braved the 400+ pings and time difference to try NS2 there!)
I don't question that there are people out there who do use scripts/macros to fast fire their pistols. However, I cannot recollect ANY death I've had where I have suspected my killer of using this.
I can imagine how frustrating it would be, though - absolutely. It sounds from these forums as though Australia is a really terrible place to play NS2 compared with... well, everywhere else in the world!
Their morality system must be all upside down over there. :P
After toying with a script, I have to say I only fire the gun about 25 milliseconds sooner than left clicking because of latency. Go develop a script and play with it. You'll learn the script can and does break often due to latency of a server, and higher ping servers the script will send too many commands to quickly and not work correctly.
Typically speaking it's only slightly easier to aim, because if you miss the "first bullet" you're going to miss all of them.
It's easier, for me personally, to land bullets left clicking quickly because I can "stop" firing. When you press a script, it's done. It shoots all the ammo assuming the script works and it reloads or changes guns. That's about it.
I think this script issue is being over portrayed by people who haven't tried to scrip themselves or attempted to get -good- at fast clicking the pistol. If you haven't spent some amount of time doing both, you don't deserve to comment on it.
Also it may take 20 seconds to make a script, but some amount of time longer to make a script that consistently works even with moderately high pings (100ish)
Skipping through the post, skipping, skipping along, where is it... Ah, there!
Are people using a script for this? I figured they were just using the old "bind fire to mousewheel scroll" trick which lets you simulate clicking incredibly quickly. I've encountered people using that trick in several games now.
The difference in 'culture' between US/EU and AU is like night and day, most people in the former realised team stacking and things like pistol macro/scripting would kill off a lot of interest in the game and be bad in general and actively set out to shame/stop it, AU was completely different, team stacking and pistol scripts were encouraged and passed on between clan members, you would see people clanless for weeks/months, join a clan, next night be using fully automatic pistol forever more.
I'm not saying pistol macros are ruining NS2 in general but they've already ruined Aus servers, admins or admin privileged people even use them on the most popular servers which should give you an indicator of how far spread they are.
I would like to point out to anybody reading that Xao is perhaps the biggest known troll in the AU scene and by no means speaks for the Australasian NS2 community.
Agree 100%.
A small hard cooldown is exactly what pistols need.
Small enought to allow good players to still fire pretty fast,but big enought to prevent script abuse.
The problem is there are good players who can fire as fast as the scripters. Any nerf will also impact some legitimate players, so the question becomes how many of those non-scripting/high pistol firing players are you willing to inconvenience?
Personally, I was a fan of when the pistol did heavy damage in the alpha/beta. I would love to see it changed to a low ROF (high min fire time), high damage type of weapon.
Yeah, I really miss the secondary fire mode on the pistol. I was just testing this out, I made a pistol script that fires every .1 seconds... and I can fire faster than that just by using 2 fingers on mouse 1. I really don't think that there are a lot of people pistol scripting, because you really don't need a script to achieve a high ROF on the pistol.
Agree 100%.
A small hard cooldown is exactly what pistols need.
Small enought to allow good players to still fire pretty fast,but big enought to prevent script abuse.
The problem is there are good players who can fire as fast as the scripters. Any nerf will also impact some legitimate players, so the question becomes how many of those non-scripting/high pistol firing players are you willing to inconvenience?
Not the proper scripters. I recall a thread from a while back where someone posted two methods of scripting his pistol fire. The one method, while providing automated fire, was correctly limited by the hard cap fire rate of 0.1 that is currently in the game. The second method, however, was not limited by this hard cap. The second method was emptying a clip in under around 0.4 seconds. It was a frequency of around 30Hz which, I'm sorry, is simply not humanly possible. Not without complete and focused dedication to that task and only that task.
Emptying a pistol clip in 0.9 seconds and above is perfectly legit. I honestly don't care if someone scripts to get to that point.
Pistol should have a longer refire rate and be compensated by increased damage or normal damage instead of light. This kills pistol scripts and it kills mouse-wheel fire binds (which aren't actually possible within NS2). Of course you can still use pistol scripts and mouse-wheel fire, but it doesn't provide an inordinate fire rate for "skill" involved.
Agree 100%.
A small hard cooldown is exactly what pistols need.
Small enought to allow good players to still fire pretty fast,but big enought to prevent script abuse.
The problem is there are good players who can fire as fast as the scripters. Any nerf will also impact some legitimate players, so the question becomes how many of those non-scripting/high pistol firing players are you willing to inconvenience?
Personally, I was a fan of when the pistol did heavy damage in the alpha/beta. I would love to see it changed to a low ROF (high min fire time), high damage type of weapon.
I really can't feel the "clicking fast is skill" argument. I mean yes, I suppose so, but does anyone really care for a skill mechanic like that? Is it fun and engaging? Uhh.
Besides, as someone already pointed out, it's much easier to aim while the script shoots instead of clicking yourself.
Pistol does not need to do more damage, its already borderline overpowered as a finisher at 25 damage a shot. I could see 20 normal damage, but dont think thats really worth changing. Having the pistol do heavy/higher damage is a bad idea overall, it makes killing retreating aliens overly easy. The rof needs to be capped to .08~.1 a shot. As a note, when spectating people in first person you will hear sounds played twice, so it may sound like people are firing super fast when in reality its just the sound bug.
500+ hours here, mostly West Coast/Central NA servers. I've seen pistol scripts at least a dozen times, and have actually encountered script/macro users who willingly admit to using them. One guy on our team was accused by the aliens of using a pistol script, and some other marines tried to defend him, saying things like "l2p, get some skill". Shortly thereafter he admits to everyone that he does indeed use a macro, and he isn't ashamed of it.
Anyone who thinks there aren't people out there, on all continents and on all servers, trying to find as many ways as possible to get an advantage are deluding themselves. Pistol macros, brightness/contrast tweaks, custom alien skins, aimbot/wallhack, you name it. They all exist.
Can anyone confirm that the weapon switch to Pistol was faster in NS1 than NS2. When first starting NS2 I was quite frustrated with the timing and felt it near useless as a backup after all ammunition has been spent in the primary clip.
Pistol does not need to do more damage, its already borderline overpowered as a finisher at 25 damage a shot. I could see 20 normal damage, but dont think thats really worth changing. Having the pistol do heavy/higher damage is a bad idea overall, it makes killing retreating aliens overly easy. The rof needs to be capped to .08~.1 a shot. As a note, when spectating people in first person you will hear sounds played twice, so it may sound like people are firing super fast when in reality its just the sound bug.
Doesn't fix anything with regards to pistol scripts giving a huge benefit to players who choose to use them. I much preferred the old right click pistol and in general prefer a pistol which rewards consistent aiming instead of spam clicking (or scripting) to emergency dump your ammo. The former will allow for much more consistent pistol play/damage by decreasing the all-or-nothing style that is usually used in frantic situations.
How is a higher damage and slower ROF any different than a lower damage, higher ROF in regards to killing retreating aliens. If a retreating alien is on your screen for 0.5 seconds allowing you to fire 2 shots worth 50 damage or 4 shots worth 25 damage ea, the result is still 100 damage.
@GORGEous I think that would be the best way to handle this issue. While I don't have a huge problem with pistol macros, the best solution imo is to make the pistol have a slower rof (maybe one shot every .35 seconds or something, idk) and higher damage. It would completely negate any benefits that a pistol script would give, and would still allow people who are skilled at aiming to be just as dangerous as they were before.
@Mestaritonttu I can shoot the pistol somewhat accurately faster than 1 shot every .1 seconds, and i can assure you that it is NOT an interesting skill. I don't feel like I did anything cool when I get a kill that way, though it is incredibly useful for taking down fades as they run or lerks that are bad/out of position.
Kouji_SanSr. Hινε UÏкεεÏεг - EUPT DeputyThe NetherlandsJoin Date: 2003-05-13Member: 16271Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue
Hmm, 350ms delay on shooting? First of all it isn't hard to shoot 10 bullets in 1 second (0.1s delay), 350ms would be quite annoying to shoot, it'll look more like an internal engine delay or bug. NS worked with 100ms, NS2 should have its click delay fixed, like I said the 100ms delay isn't working correctly making it possible to empty the gun a tiny bit faster then half a second
Comments
This.
I can imagine how frustrating it would be, though - absolutely. It sounds from these forums as though Australia is a really terrible place to play NS2 compared with... well, everywhere else in the world!
Their morality system must be all upside down over there. :P
Because of the sound suppression on death, and latency regarding sound playing, it typically manifests as suddenly dying followed by a very strange sounding bang, as all the pistol shot sounds play at once. It usually feels like a lag death.
Actually it's because we're all convicts.
It's not all bad, just people are more likely to complain than praise in general so the negative gets shown a lot more than the positive.
Remember that EU in general is a lot more competitive in almost any game than for example NA. I can pick any EU server on the list and know that there will be at least two enemies on there that will give me a good challenge, but if I go to an NA server I pretty much expect to rofl-wtfstomp everybody. Thus, there will always be more people willing to abuse things like these in EU. Also, Eastern Euro countries have like no morals.
Agree 100%.
A small hard cooldown is exactly what pistols need.
Small enought to allow good players to still fire pretty fast,but big enought to prevent script abuse.
I find this post really offensive.
I should add that I also play on EU servers most of the time (I'm based in the UK), and based on strofix's description of pistol script deaths, I can be almost positive that I have never been killed by such a pistrol script/macro in the ~300h I've played since launch.
Despite that, I think an increased cooldown wouldn't damage anyone. It doesn't suddenly get less skillful.
Before, the skill was to click M1 really fast and keep aiming for this time. With a cooldown of 0.2 or 0.3 seconds, the skill will be to hit the timing right and keep aiming for this time. I don't see a problem in such a decreased rate of fire, and it would ban those occasional scripters.
His description of those deaths isn't all-encompassing. You don't have to wait til dead to hear it. You can tell if the marine missed you with the first shot and when fighting other skulks. You're probably just used to marines emptying their pistols in 0.4s.
As for the post being 'offensive', I'll agree that it was a bit generalizing towards eastern Europeans, I'll grant you that, but I live in Norway where 99% of the crime is done by roving Lithuanian, Romanian and Polish people, exploiting the schengen to pass over the border to break into people's houses and crap. But that's a different topic.
The difference in 'culture' between US/EU and AU is like night and day, most people in the former realised team stacking and things like pistol macro/scripting would kill off a lot of interest in the game and be bad in general and actively set out to shame/stop it, AU was completely different, team stacking and pistol scripts were encouraged and passed on between clan members, you would see people clanless for weeks/months, join a clan, next night be using fully automatic pistol forever more.
I'm not saying pistol macros are ruining NS2 in general but they've already ruined Aus servers, admins or admin privileged people even use them on the most popular servers which should give you an indicator of how far spread they are.
If 99% of crime in Norway is committed by non-Norwegians, I will eat my computer. That sounds like a ridiculously prejudiced and borderline racist exaggeration, and is the point that I find most offensive.
Regarding the pistol scripts - I am used to people firing their pistols fast, but never have I thought that they were using a script (I fire my pistol fast, and miss about as many shots as most people when I do so, and no I don't use any for of script or macro to do this). I haven't ever been killed in such a short time in a way that even invites suspicion, so I really have to question the premise here that this is really widespread. (Not counting Aus here as I haven't ever braved the 400+ pings and time difference to try NS2 there!)
What you did there, I see it
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Also the biggest issue right now is that that the hard limit of 100ms is not working correctly...
Skipping through the post, skipping, skipping along, where is it... Ah, there!
You just dismissed your entire post with a l2p argument. Level of skill is not relevant to this discussion.
Game over.
I would like to point out to anybody reading that Xao is perhaps the biggest known troll in the AU scene and by no means speaks for the Australasian NS2 community.
Personally, I was a fan of when the pistol did heavy damage in the alpha/beta. I would love to see it changed to a low ROF (high min fire time), high damage type of weapon.
Not the proper scripters. I recall a thread from a while back where someone posted two methods of scripting his pistol fire. The one method, while providing automated fire, was correctly limited by the hard cap fire rate of 0.1 that is currently in the game. The second method, however, was not limited by this hard cap. The second method was emptying a clip in under around 0.4 seconds. It was a frequency of around 30Hz which, I'm sorry, is simply not humanly possible. Not without complete and focused dedication to that task and only that task.
Emptying a pistol clip in 0.9 seconds and above is perfectly legit. I honestly don't care if someone scripts to get to that point.
I really can't feel the "clicking fast is skill" argument. I mean yes, I suppose so, but does anyone really care for a skill mechanic like that? Is it fun and engaging? Uhh.
Besides, as someone already pointed out, it's much easier to aim while the script shoots instead of clicking yourself.
And, the script is also probably faster still.
Anyone who thinks there aren't people out there, on all continents and on all servers, trying to find as many ways as possible to get an advantage are deluding themselves. Pistol macros, brightness/contrast tweaks, custom alien skins, aimbot/wallhack, you name it. They all exist.
Doesn't fix anything with regards to pistol scripts giving a huge benefit to players who choose to use them. I much preferred the old right click pistol and in general prefer a pistol which rewards consistent aiming instead of spam clicking (or scripting) to emergency dump your ammo. The former will allow for much more consistent pistol play/damage by decreasing the all-or-nothing style that is usually used in frantic situations.
How is a higher damage and slower ROF any different than a lower damage, higher ROF in regards to killing retreating aliens. If a retreating alien is on your screen for 0.5 seconds allowing you to fire 2 shots worth 50 damage or 4 shots worth 25 damage ea, the result is still 100 damage.
@Mestaritonttu I can shoot the pistol somewhat accurately faster than 1 shot every .1 seconds, and i can assure you that it is NOT an interesting skill. I don't feel like I did anything cool when I get a kill that way, though it is incredibly useful for taking down fades as they run or lerks that are bad/out of position.