I'm sorry but what do aliens have to compare to the shotgun?
Antikaratekid
Join Date: 2013-03-04 Member: 183688Members
Join Date: 2013-03-04 Member: 183688Members
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Taking a skulk or lerk bite should completely drain the jetpack tank and prevent it from refilling for 2 seconds. That way if you manage to actually LAND a bite on the guy, he drops and can actually be killed instead of just flying away. To me, thats equal to the stupid bad celerity nerf.
are you trying to create a series of myths?
afaik celerity has been the same since release, also spiking has approximately the same dps as AR without the reload.
by the time marines have shotgun + jetpack, alien's should have at least one pres onos... otherwise alien just failed.
Celerity always didn't work in combat? Not what EVERYONE has been telling me. Cause it doesn't work in combat now, making it pretty terrible.
Spiking might do same damage as AR...but last time I checked, marines had a LOT more life than a skulk. I've spent minutes spiking the front lines and almost never get a kill. Marines just run back to the armory and full heal in seconds, hell, they can just STAND by the armory if they want, the armory heals faster than the lerk can damage the marine.
Also, JP+SG counters Onos, so yeah...
And hitting a fade 4 times with the LMG should slow its speed and prevent it from blinking/SSing away. That way, if we actually LAND bullets on the guy, he drops and can actually be killed instead of just Shadowstepping away. To me, that's equal to the stupid shotgun range or the shit LMG/pistol damage.
Same thing should happen to an Onos. If you can land a clip into the Onos, that should drain their energy and slow them. I mean, I've been in games where the onos went 40:5 and killed an entire base with a 10 res gorge then ran away laughing when the exos showed up. What do the marines have that can AOE stun aliens, tank, and run away.
If a marine went 35:3 with a jetpack and shotgun in a short/mid length game, then he massively out skills you. If a fade went 40:6 against the marines team, it's not because fades or Onos are imbalanced.
I went 40-2 as a Lerk while drunk once.
In NS2 it has never worked in combat. In NS1 it did.
(guy who played since the alpha here)
fade
skulk and onos if you lure them into a room with a low ceiling
OMG Teach me master! (seriously, the Lerk is a support class. It's not supposed to be getting fade/onos levels of kills)
Man oh man, the reasons to go back to NS1 just keep piling up. I'm really starting to regret giving UWE $30 for this game.
I had Celerity/Regen/Cloak, the server was full of bads, and they kept going through Crevice over and over again. :P
Even without awful players to pad your score, the Lurk Celerity/Regen/Camo combination is immensely strong and I feel a lot of Alien players overlook the Lurk in general as a way to handle the jetpack/shotgun combo.
Not sure if the new camo gimped this Lurk build a bit but I'd never die with old camo.
For example..
Yes and shotgun-marine will probably take out a skulk without too much problem.
But thats not taking into consideration things like...
bile bomb: obscured vision, armor loss, potential new targetting priority on gorge
spores: obscured vision, health loss, potential new aerial targetting priority on lerk
fades: puncture damage (may be using the obscured vision that bile bomb and spores provides as cover)
etc. etc.
My point is that while comparing apples to apples is fine, it doesn't ranslate well when comparing the entire basket of apples and oranges.... if that makes sense. I feel like I sound pretenious or something lol.
Personally I like to view the marines as this unstoppable force of ranged DPS and armor.
A ball of marines with slightly varying means to output high amounts of DPS in a relatively short amount of time.
While the aliens are so completely different in the way they play that you really have to use every weapon in your arsenal to shape the battlefield to your advantage.
Use Infestation Spikes to block bullets or trap marines, lay down spores (to blind, cause direct dmg to hp AND take away from a marine's dps output by forcing them to find a spot without gas to hide), spread umbra, bile bomb, ENZYME CLOUD. etc.
I know that marines are typicall seen as the race that requires more teamwork, but in a combat situation I feel that the alien team requires much more communcation and synchronized movements and ideal timings and battlefield modifiers. ESPECIALLY battle modifier, aliens are ALL ABOUT stacking battle modifiers.
What do I mean by battle modifiers? see above: spores, umbra, bile, enzyme cloud, stomp, infestation spike, nutrient mist, poison bite.
Most of the people in these kinds of threads seem to do this intentionally to reinforce their complaint. You will constantly read dumb comments comparing skulk dps to lmg dps or onos health to exosuit health or fade cost to shotgun cost without even mentioning the other factors that mitigate these perceived imbalances. You can pretty much write off anyone's post when they say something like "shotgun is 20 pres, how do aliens counter it with 20 pres?!?!" because that is not how the game works.
Well, the issue with direct comparisons is the same issue with comparing units in Starcraft 2. It's not unit costs X resource. Time to research, different resource value (i've heard the fact alien pres costs more than marine pres), research time, ease of use, etc. Mixing in this with the fact a player's skill effects and you have a VERY DIFFICULT way to directly compare things in NS2. This isn't even counting the fact people's machines are different so they might not be playing it to the same degree (and might actually be handycapping themselves with inferior computers, meaning skill is even MORE variable). The fact of the matter is balance in NS2 is a goal and job for UWE I don't envy and doubt will ever be achieved.
As for the shotgun: It's value goes from 0 to infinity depending on how well a marine can evade and aim. It's VERY similar to the fade in that regard and despite what people say, the even shotgun spread was better to avoid the sniper effect it sometimes produced. Is a shotgun marine strong? Yes, but in the hands of the Fane Tane Pain train, EVERYTHING is strong.
My best advice if you're having problems with it is to wait for the skulk acceleration hotfix and then play it as if it'll be like that situation forever. Meaning you'll have to adapt from then on because we can't predict if UWE will ever change anything in the future.
But then again I recently saw a 50-3 Fade.
Can a fade theoretically one shot as many people he has bullets? No. Can he OHK un-upgraded marines? No. But a shotty marine with a jetpack can. For 20 res less.
Good players can use fades well. But they can use the shotty-jet combo far better.
If light marines can't walk into a hive and down it, jetpack marines won't be able to either. Jetpacks provide nothing but mobility, which is obviously useless when attacking stationery emplacements. To that end, jetpacks are a largely defensive upgrade, counter-intuitively.
Sure, someone with good aim can get a jetpack and fly around the map, one shotting skulks in arb locations, but what is he actually accomplishing for the team?
Mobility will guarantee a longer life for him. Which means that he will be able to put out more DPS and save himself (and his res) in tough situations. If you're the type of fool who stays in one place during firefights then sure. But if you're half smart you are gonna keep moving.
A good 30 res lerk will destroy all non-shotgun carrying marines with ease, and a good lerk will bait a shotgunner into an area to be spiked to death in a matter of seconds. If you cannot spike a marine down that is not anyones problem but yours.
PS: Jetpacks are what makes them strong, and yes, they need to cost 15 res. Not 10.
onos.
I don't even
Try this next time you are playing with a couple of friends.
Get the marine team to, above all else, avoid death. Tell everyone on the marine team to prevent their death at any cost imaginable. See how well your team does. See how much of an impact a "longer life" has on victory.
Reading your quote again made me realize that your biggest gripe is probably the players KPD. You simply don't like seeing people having so many kills attached to so few deaths. Unfortunately this isn't CS, it isn't COD. Every encounter between players will not be fair, and that's the way NS is. A 2 minute Lerk can go 30 for 1 without a problem, but the player isn't accomplishing an imbalanced act. He isn't single handedly winning the game, because deaths don't matter, and neither do kills. They can be made to matter, but that isn't easy to do against good players.
That's great! And a good jetpack shotty will kill your 30res lerk in one blast and can also bait etc.
You really are hellbent on saying mobility is useless. See how much of an impact something has when everyone is focused on that one person? What a ridiculous response.
In a firefight where skulks, lerks, fades and onos are trying to melee a group of marines, the jetpack ones will survive longer and do more damage. If you don't understand this simple concept, don't bother responding with any more posts.
The only reason why I imagine someone would deny the usefulness of mobility is a perma marine or someone who needs to shut off the computer and get some sleep.