JektJoin Date: 2012-02-05Member: 143714Members, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow
edited January 2013
Minimum velocity for MT is very cool, so if you're travelling slow enough you won't get picked up? Was that even in NS1? It's a shame that there's been no progress on new heavy and hmg art assets.
Thanks for the update. 18 slot Australian server is up.
I read somewhere long ago that the NS2c server runs with less resources than a vanilla NS2 server. Does this still hold? I am thinking of hosting a 24-slot NS2c server alongside my current combat server here in Singapore.
Its possible, but I havent evaluated the server (or really client) load for a while. The main load from the server or client in vanilla is movement code related, and considering NS2c has alot of changes to movement code, its possible its better somewhat. It should generally use slightly less memory, and generally maintains much lower ent counts (NS2 with 7 ents per cyst really adds up quickly). That should help reduce network traffic accordingly.
As another note, I am looking for feedback regarding the infestation added in this patch, and any suggestions regarding how it could be improved is welcomed.
NS1 did not have a minimum velocity on MT AFAIK, and NS2c still uses the axe (the attack speed is sped up tho).
Figure ill post an update regarding this - something went wrong with the original modID from workshop - any updates simply published another mods code, even when removed. In the end the modID became unusable, so a new ID had to be created
7619DC7 is the new ID.
It contains the newest version which should finally resolve any sound related bugs that were there previously.
Starting download of 'NS2c'
Error: Error installing mod 'NS2c' (download failed: 28)
Finished downloading and installing mods
Error: Mod wasn't available
Going to assume github has the same version available on the workshop
EDIT: Ok no, just read your previous post but GitHub's version has only been updated 15 days ago
EDIT2: Ok subscribed and downloaded using my game client and copied the files over! Asian NS2:C server is up!
Ok just went to lame around with sv_cheats 1. I realise the bile bomb does not deal damage on every hit - the life bar of the structure seems to only decrease every 3 hits, despite my draw damage showing an increasing amount of damage being dealt.
And LOGSPAM:
Client (note: this log is a whopping 506MB in filesize. Yes, MB).
That error 28 can occur a couple times on the server, generally just restarting it a couple times until it succeedes seems to work.
Enemy structure healthbars only update every 10%, so that does sound correct.
Regarding the errors, ill hafta look into those but web shouldnt have been enabled so that might be part of it. The server side error needs fixing tho.
I tried introducing some friends to it, some of whom had never played NS 1 and it wasn't a huge success. For this mod to become truly successful I believe you will have to reinvent the concept and not just copy what was there in NS 1. It's clear to me that there's simply not enough 'nostalgics' out there to fill the few servers that run this mod and it feels so vastly different from NS 2, without though appearing very polished or offering 'much new' that it's not really appealing to this new NS 2 player.
Why not consider running with a sort of Classic Light? Keep some of the fundamentals from NS 2 while still reintroducing the things that made NS 1 great? Keep the NS 2 movement, firing, gun sounds, lifeform mechanics while still getting rid of the alien commander, exos, mobile siege cannons, etc... I personally would LOVE to play a mod like that (Heck, even just a mod with no alien commander and the old NS 1 alien tech path would be amazing in itself) and I reckon it'd be a lot more accessible for other players just as well.
I don't see the harm in trying it at least, you can easily run both even.
Updated the workshop build which should resolve the hydra and web issues.
Regarding the mods direction, I do not think that making a 'Classic Lite' would make it any more popular in the long run, as blending the gameplay from NS1 and NS2 would only further confuse and complicate things. Personally my favorite aspect of this mod is the movement and how each alien plays uniquely but also still shares the same basics.
JektJoin Date: 2012-02-05Member: 143714Members, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow
I think the lack of polish feeling stems from the imported sound effects and models. I'd consider using the NS2 gun sounds and hydra model. At least until higher quality ones are created.
Personally, I would use more SFX from NS1, especially the alien jumping sound. The NS2 "whoosh/splat" "whoosh/splat" makes it sound so heavy and fat. Whereas the NS1 little "tick" "tick" makes aliens sound light and agile, as they should (at least skulk and fade, for instance).
Personally I like a lot of the NS1 sounds over the ones from NS2, I think they are of higher quality. I do plan to bring more over now that I finally figured out the issues with custom sounds not obeying client side volume.
The models are a catch 22 somewhat, I think that some are needed (HA and CC), and I think the OC is somewhat needed also (Hydra is so small). I do hope to get more modelling assistance at some point tho.
Personally I like a lot of the NS1 sounds over the ones from NS2, I think they are of higher quality. I do plan to bring more over now that I finally figured out the issues with custom sounds not obeying client side volume.
The models are a catch 22 somewhat, I think that some are needed (HA and CC), and I think the OC is somewhat needed also (Hydra is so small). I do hope to get more modelling assistance at some point tho.
a new Offensive Tower tough that is drastically different would need its own animations i guess which is more work than a simple model swap? think the power armor would simply use the rigging from standard marine just different model.
def think the cc should be remodeled to replicate the one from ns1.
I played last night to try it out, got devoured and it was permanent, Then I was onos and I devoured someone, and when i stomped he would come out. Not sure why the sound effects were being changed for marine weapons should keep ns2 sounds until some high quality ones are made. and the jetpack how can anyone fly anywhere but up? I had so many problems trying to jetpack around, tried in a vent and I got stuck.
Playing this mod trying to kill one fade made me appreciate how much I enjoy ns2 more.
I think the mods great, just needs polish, i don't understand why your using ns1 models tho? whats the problem with the current ones! I understand the HMG.
Really just as placeholders, being able to build the huge NS2 command chair anywhere would be a massive gameplay problem. The Hydra is really small so the OC is easier to hit and see. The jetpack works alot like NS1 jetpack, so use the first boost from taking off to set your height, then release jump and then use it again to dodge or stay airborne.
There is currently an issue with the shotgun spread that needs fixing which might be whats causing some of the issues also.
Is there a NS2c steam group? When we were trying to build momentum for Combat (once auto-download worked) we just arranged playtest dates on there and mysteriously servers appeared and filled up...
Unfortunately I have been dedicating most of my time to other projects, so I have had little time to manage events. I can still do coding updates and patches but the logistics of organizing and participating in these events is just beyond the time that I have currently.
Unfortunately I have been dedicating most of my time to other projects, so I have had little time to manage events. I can still do coding updates and patches but the logistics of organizing and participating in these events is just beyond the time that I have currently.
Not much managing involved, just give admin powers over steam group to some trusted ppl and have them schedule the occasional game. If you post it, they will come.
Honestly, I'd love to play NS2C more as a lot of what it offers, even with placeholder graphics, is still miles ahead of NS 2 gameplay wise BUT I can't just enjoy it any more with how different the movement and other mechanics (blink fade, etc) have become. I realise they are for the biggest part a recreation of NS1's (though as far as I'm concerned that's not how I remembered it) but it simply doesn't feel accessible or fun coming from vNS2, and I had a lot of my friends say the same thing. Also last patch I played (several weeks ago) skulk movement felt incredibly wonky, I could barely turn.
I said this before, I wish there would be a NS2C light that is more accessible for people coming from vNS2, I'm pretty confident it would have a bigger potential as currently it just feels too niche. I'm in the mod business myself, and I can personally attest to the fact that accessibility is everything, at least if you actually want your product to gather a following and 'take off'. You've recreated NS 1, which is amazing, but surely it'd be even more amazing if you could find a way to actually sell those NS 1 fundamentals by compromising to some extent, rather than offering an exact replica that few will end up playing.
(To compare, 2 successful mods, combat and MvM come to mind and they both keep some of the NS 2 fundamentals in place.)
I think a lot of people who miss NS 1 don't miss it because of its movement (except for bunnyhopping), its fade blink, etc. They miss it because of its much deeper and more engaging strategic gameplay, its better alien upgrade system, its economic approach, etc. Recreating NS 1 for NS 2 ergo shouldn't necessarily be about making an exact copy of that game, it should be about recreating those things that truly made it great.
Just my 2 cents anyway. I know you don't agree personally, but if anybody else ever takes up the project of creating an NS 1 mod like the one I here described, I would no doubt easily put in another 600+ hours of game time.
I tried to start a NS2c listen server with the "gorgeous" update and I got a "bad data" popup in the middle of the load. Is this working for anyone else? Am I doing something wrong?
Comments
Thanks for the update. 18 slot Australian server is up.
As another note, I am looking for feedback regarding the infestation added in this patch, and any suggestions regarding how it could be improved is welcomed.
NS1 did not have a minimum velocity on MT AFAIK, and NS2c still uses the axe (the attack speed is sped up tho).
7619DC7 is the new ID.
It contains the newest version which should finally resolve any sound related bugs that were there previously.
Going to assume github has the same version available on the workshop
EDIT: Ok no, just read your previous post but GitHub's version has only been updated 15 days ago
EDIT2: Ok subscribed and downloaded using my game client and copied the files over! Asian NS2:C server is up!
And LOGSPAM:
Client (note: this log is a whopping 506MB in filesize. Yes, MB).
[Client] Script Error #1: lua/Utility.lua:1349: bad argument #2 to 'max' (number expected, got nil) Call stack: #1: max [C]:-1 #2: Clamp lua/Utility.lua:1349 value = 119.55601501465 min = nil max = nil #3: OnUpdatePoseParameters lua/Weapons/Alien/Web.lua:205 self = Web-845 {animationGraphIndex=29, collisionRep=0, endPoint=Vector {x=0, y=0, z=0 }, modelIndex=49, physicsGroup=4, physicsGroupFilterMask=0, physicsType=1, teamNumber=2, techId=42 } #4: UpdatePoseParameters lua/Mixins/BaseModelMixin.lua:287 self = Web-845 {animationGraphIndex=29, collisionRep=0, endPoint=Vector {x=0, y=0, z=0 }, modelIndex=49, physicsGroup=4, physicsGroupFilterMask=0, physicsType=1, teamNumber=2, techId=42 } forceUpdate = true #5: UpdateBoneCoords lua/Mixins/BaseModelMixin.lua:333 self = Web-845 {animationGraphIndex=29, collisionRep=0, endPoint=Vector {x=0, y=0, z=0 }, modelIndex=49, physicsGroup=4, physicsGroupFilterMask=0, physicsType=1, teamNumber=2, techId=42 } forceUpdate = true #6: SetModel lua/Mixins/BaseModelMixin.lua:790 self = Web-845 {animationGraphIndex=29, collisionRep=0, endPoint=Vector {x=0, y=0, z=0 }, modelIndex=49, physicsGroup=4, physicsGroupFilterMask=0, physicsType=1, teamNumber=2, techId=42 } modelName = "models/alien/gorge/web.model" graphName = "models/alien/gorge/web.animation_graph" prevModelIndex = 49 modelChanged = false #7: lua/Weapons/Alien/Web.lua:73 self = Web-845 {animationGraphIndex=29, collisionRep=0, endPoint=Vector {x=0, y=0, z=0 }, modelIndex=49, physicsGroup=4, physicsGroupFilterMask=0, physicsType=1, teamNumber=2, techId=42 } #8: [C]:-1 [Client] Script Error #5: lua/Mixins/BaseModelMixin.lua:466: None of the overloads for RenderModel.SetCoords match the supplied arguments: RenderModel.SetCoords(RenderModel, nil) Overloads: RenderModel.SetCoords(RenderModel self, Coords coords) Call stack: #1: RenderModel_SetCoords [C]:-1 #2: UpdateRenderModel lua/Mixins/BaseModelMixin.lua:466 self = Web-845 {animationGraphIndex=29, collisionRep=0, endPoint=Vector {x=0, y=0, z=0 }, modelIndex=49, physicsGroup=4, physicsGroupFilterMask=0, physicsType=1, teamNumber=2, techId=42 } getForbidModelCoordsUpdate = nil allowUpdates = true renderModel = RenderModel { } #3: lua/Mixins/BaseModelMixin.lua:1020 self = Web-845 {animationGraphIndex=29, collisionRep=0, endPoint=Vector {x=0, y=0, z=0 }, modelIndex=49, physicsGroup=4, physicsGroupFilterMask=0, physicsType=1, teamNumber=2, techId=42 } #4: [C]:-1 [Client] Script Error #552417: lua/Mixins/BaseModelMixin.lua:466: None of the overloads for RenderModel.SetCoords match the supplied arguments: RenderModel.SetCoords(RenderModel, nil) Overloads: RenderModel.SetCoords(RenderModel self, Coords coords) Call stack: #1: RenderModel_SetCoords [C]:-1 #2: UpdateRenderModel lua/Mixins/BaseModelMixin.lua:466 self = Web-1970 {animationGraphIndex=29, collisionRep=0, endPoint=Vector {x=0, y=0, z=0 }, modelIndex=49, physicsGroup=4, physicsGroupFilterMask=0, physicsType=1, teamNumber=2, techId=42 } getForbidModelCoordsUpdate = nil allowUpdates = true renderModel = RenderModel { } #3: lua/Mixins/BaseModelMixin.lua:1020 self = Web-1970 {animationGraphIndex=29, collisionRep=0, endPoint=Vector {x=0, y=0, z=0 }, modelIndex=49, physicsGroup=4, physicsGroupFilterMask=0, physicsType=1, teamNumber=2, techId=42 } #4: [C]:-1(As you can see that repeated for about... 500 thousand times)Server (I copied from when it started up to when I opened the log):
http://pastebin.com/CkFgeEAp
Enemy structure healthbars only update every 10%, so that does sound correct.
Regarding the errors, ill hafta look into those but web shouldnt have been enabled so that might be part of it. The server side error needs fixing tho.
Why not consider running with a sort of Classic Light? Keep some of the fundamentals from NS 2 while still reintroducing the things that made NS 1 great? Keep the NS 2 movement, firing, gun sounds, lifeform mechanics while still getting rid of the alien commander, exos, mobile siege cannons, etc... I personally would LOVE to play a mod like that (Heck, even just a mod with no alien commander and the old NS 1 alien tech path would be amazing in itself) and I reckon it'd be a lot more accessible for other players just as well.
I don't see the harm in trying it at least, you can easily run both even.
Regarding the mods direction, I do not think that making a 'Classic Lite' would make it any more popular in the long run, as blending the gameplay from NS1 and NS2 would only further confuse and complicate things. Personally my favorite aspect of this mod is the movement and how each alien plays uniquely but also still shares the same basics.
The models are a catch 22 somewhat, I think that some are needed (HA and CC), and I think the OC is somewhat needed also (Hydra is so small). I do hope to get more modelling assistance at some point tho.
def think the cc should be remodeled to replicate the one from ns1.
Playing this mod trying to kill one fade made me appreciate how much I enjoy ns2 more.
There is currently an issue with the shotgun spread that needs fixing which might be whats causing some of the issues also.
http://steamcommunity.com/groups/ns2c
Not much managing involved, just give admin powers over steam group to some trusted ppl and have them schedule the occasional game. If you post it, they will come.
I said this before, I wish there would be a NS2C light that is more accessible for people coming from vNS2, I'm pretty confident it would have a bigger potential as currently it just feels too niche. I'm in the mod business myself, and I can personally attest to the fact that accessibility is everything, at least if you actually want your product to gather a following and 'take off'. You've recreated NS 1, which is amazing, but surely it'd be even more amazing if you could find a way to actually sell those NS 1 fundamentals by compromising to some extent, rather than offering an exact replica that few will end up playing.
(To compare, 2 successful mods, combat and MvM come to mind and they both keep some of the NS 2 fundamentals in place.)
I think a lot of people who miss NS 1 don't miss it because of its movement (except for bunnyhopping), its fade blink, etc. They miss it because of its much deeper and more engaging strategic gameplay, its better alien upgrade system, its economic approach, etc. Recreating NS 1 for NS 2 ergo shouldn't necessarily be about making an exact copy of that game, it should be about recreating those things that truly made it great.
Just my 2 cents anyway. I know you don't agree personally, but if anybody else ever takes up the project of creating an NS 1 mod like the one I here described, I would no doubt easily put in another 600+ hours of game time.