Natural Immersion 2
elodea
Editlodea Join Date: 2009-06-20 Member: 67877Members, Reinforced - Shadow
Editlodea Join Date: 2009-06-20 Member: 67877Members, Reinforced - Shadow
I think this is a good example of how frustrating all the particle effects can be. It's so bad even without the other 70% - Infestation spikes, Cyst bursts, Drifter enzyme spam, Scan circles, jp smoke, whip bombard, gorge spit. Hopefully UWE has a look at the purpose of each visually obstructing mechanic and has a think about whether it fits their purpose, because quite honestly it's over the top. Still can't believe the burning away spore/umbra effect is just as bad as what it was trying to eliminate.
If you have a problem with the ammount of vision obstruction in Natural immersion 2, please add your footage here and hopefully we can start something.
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*yea i know the audio bitrate sucks. sorry
If you have a problem with the ammount of vision obstruction in Natural immersion 2, please add your footage here and hopefully we can start something.
<center><object width="450" height="356"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/oAj2_EgfgfE"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/oAj2_EgfgfE" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" width="450" height="356"></embed></object></center>
*yea i know the audio bitrate sucks. sorry
Comments
currently however, they are vision obscuring <i>and </i>they might as well be TFC conc grenades because they drop FPS by so much.
I do agree it's an incredibly annoying issue, and I think performance has a lot to do with it. potential re-implementation at a later date? we already did the same with Feign Death and Hypermutation.
Some people are still dreaming of a return of the Quake 3 era, where gaming was all about moving a mouse around a mouse pad and who could keep their cursor on a moving clump of pixels the best. In my own opinion, these are the type of people who would rather play a game they don't enjoy but are considered good at, than play an enjoyable game at which they are bad.
On the other hand, you have people who play games for the experience, and for a sense of pseudo realism. They aren't really concerned about skill ceilings, or how they can't track a target perfectly because some dust blew in their face.
If your complaint is that these particles effects make the game imbalanced, then that's fine, but I don't think that's what your complaint is. In my opinion they only improve the atmosphere of the game.
if you view this as a legitimate complaint, then a cvar solves this concern
You think that's balanced?
<!--quoteo(post=2033608:date=Nov 24 2012, 06:21 PM:name=Imbalanxd)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Imbalanxd @ Nov 24 2012, 06:21 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2033608"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Its obviously a very subjective topic.
Some people are still dreaming of a return of the Quake 3 era, where gaming was all about moving a mouse around a mouse pad and who could keep their cursor on a moving clump of pixels the best. In my own opinion, these are the type of people who would rather play a game they don't enjoy but are considered good at, than play an enjoyable game at which they are bad.
On the other hand, you have people who play games for the experience, and for a sense of pseudo realism. They aren't really concerned about skill ceilings, or how they can't track a target perfectly because some dust blew in their face.
If your complaint is that these particles effects make the game imbalanced, then that's fine, but I don't think that's what your complaint is. In my opinion they only improve the atmosphere of the game.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You may want to consider that NS2 <i>is</i> a competitive multiplayer game, not an immersively atmospheric single player game. You want people to be able to fight the opponents, not game mechanics.
Some people are still dreaming of a return of the Quake 3 era, where gaming was all about moving a mouse around a mouse pad and who could keep their cursor on a moving clump of pixels the best. In my own opinion, these are the type of people who would rather play a game they don't enjoy but are considered good at, than play an enjoyable game at which they are bad.
On the other hand, you have people who play games for the experience, and for a sense of pseudo realism. They aren't really concerned about skill ceilings, or how they can't track a target perfectly because some dust blew in their face.
If your complaint is that these particles effects make the game imbalanced, then that's fine, but I don't think that's what your complaint is. In my opinion they only improve the atmosphere of the game.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I actually loaded up Word and did a word count to come up with this number; 73.72% of your entire reply is completely irrelevant.
This isn't the first thread about how much NS2 likes to obscure player vision. I don't think you need to be a a miserable person (but really good at quake3!) to think it's excessive. Infact, excessive particle complaints among casual players in MOBA games, where 10 people are casting spells in a teamfight. I don't think it's a strecth to assume that the excessive particle effects impede both rookie and experienced players.
Overall, when it's just one or two of the effects I think it's okay in the sense that I can still manage to be aware of what's going on around me. There are some abilities, such as spore, that block so much vision it's crazy. I would prefer for most alien effects to be more transparent because the video above is a perfect example of how completely overwhelming the effects can be when teams engage.
No, wrong. This mind set falls into the first category I mentioned earlier. You think the primary goal for a game is to allow players to "fight the opponents". This fits perfectly with the notion that most players like you would sooner play a game that they don't enjoy, but at which they excel, than play a game which is just plain fun, regardless of how good they are. The point of a game is to be enjoyable.
The concept of fighting the opponent and the game being enjoyable are obviously by no means mutually exclusive. However, if you want a game which has the singular goal of allowing the player to fight the opponents, you are going to be playing in a smooth shaded environment in which the enemy shows up as bright pink. You would be hard pressed to find anyone to play such a game, competitive or not.
Atmosphere is what is making this game. You think people who see the game want to buy it because they can't wait to try and shoot a speeding skulk off a wall, or blink around with a fade killing tens of marines? Hmph, maybe some, but a vast minority.
<!--quoteo(post=2033630:date=Nov 24 2012, 07:57 PM:name=SentrySteve)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (SentrySteve @ Nov 24 2012, 07:57 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2033630"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I don't think it's a strecth to assume that the excessive particle effects impede both rookie and experienced players.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<b>Impede</b>.
What does this word mean in this context? Are you saying that the particle effects cause an imbalance against marines? If so, then maybe you are right, and you should argue that angle a bit more. As far as I can tell though, everyone is just taking the stance of "I want 20/20 vision at all time, but I don't have 20/20 vision at all time", which I see as an anti immersion sentiment, and in my opinion, immersion is what drives the sales of games nowdays.
Erm, like... yeah?
This is a good example of the point I'm trying to make.
Were spores and umbra made with obscuring vision in mind? Did the developers know that spores would make it very difficult for marines to see?
<b>No</b>
Well then clearly the ability is going to be far more powerful than anticipated, and a clear imbalance has arisen.
<b>Yes</b>
Well then obviously the ability has been balanced around this fact, and the damage has been scaled accordingly.
I think we all know that the first option is not the case at hand. So then why?
Why do you care that you can't see as well, if you know that the damage is reduced to compensate? If they made spores transparent, they would just increase its damage by 50 or 75%, and you would die just as often anyway. So what's the difference?
A thought to consider: Compare visibility reduction to the ubiquitous and ever prominent recoil mechanic present in so many modern games, and tell me what the fundamental differences are.
The recoil mechanic affects both teams equally in those "many modern games" (unless of course you mean the many modern games that have one one team effected by the recoil mechanic while the other team is not, which is what, 1? 2 games? that doesn't seem like many to me), the visibility reduction here however does not since one team can negate all vision-impairing effects simply by pressing one key.
That being said, spore and umbra can be pretty annoying.
skill is rewarding, luck is frustrating
skill is rewarding, luck is frustrating<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
that's not entirely true. it's just that your predictive ability that you've honed degrades very quickly without visual confirmation of your tracking. theoretically it's still possible to track things through vision obscuration (although the current opacity of the particle effects may be a little too much).
This isn't the 90's anymore. There's more to games than just pointing and clicking. Get used to it or you're not going to like any decent FPS that ever comes out anymore.
NS2 is for the most part a first person shooter/biter, and as such an important aspect is finding threats and targets in your environment, as well as trying to hinder your opponents ability to effectively do so. Some mechanics in the game makes this easier for you, some makes it more difficult for your enemy. Think alien vision and scan, or ink cloud, camouflage and silence. In a game which is inherently asymmetrical in the sense that one side is ranged and one side is melee, it makes perfect sense from a game design/balance perspective that the melee side has some spells or abilities which makes it easier for them to close in on their opponents, who would otherwise always maintain a tactical advantage simply due to the fact that they are ranged.
The complaints ITT are utterly misguided. OP, and the people who side with him make themselves look like they don't understand what kind of game NS2 is designed to be.
Edit to add: Shrimm beat me to my point :)
I like the particle effects.
I agree, that's why I said mostly. for example, it's still possible to make great plays happen in CS once you get flashed. I think this only works because flashbangs are expected, isolated, and intentional incidents, whereas in NS2 it's most of the game and the implementation is poor so it seems accidental.
this applies to pittlerGG's post as well - abilities which are able to be overcome add a rewarding mechanic to players, abilities which are partially luck-based add frustration. obviously a mix between the two is ideal, however NS2 is currently oversaturated with these mechanics.
this applies to pittlerGG's post as well - abilities which are able to be overcome add a rewarding mechanic to players, abilities which are partially luck-based add frustration. obviously a mix between the two is ideal, however NS2 is currently oversaturated with these mechanics.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
A lerk swooping in and dumping umbra is accidental? Come on, now.
How, in any way, are spores/umbra luck based? I guess those lerks were accidently pressing there mouse buttons and got lucky because it did something...
Just so you know, shooting and tracking a target with low visibility requires skill not luck. Sure you can spray bullets into the mist and hope for the best.. If you're doing that I could see were you're coming from. From that perspective the entire game is luck based. You can dump your magazine down a hallway, get lucky and hit a couple aliens. Or you could look, analyze, and figure out where to shoot all in the fraction of a second and actually kill a couple aliens. That's skill not luck.