Realy? People complaining that lerk spores obscure vision to much? It is supposed to be a smokescreen that also does AoE damage. As a marine you'r supposed to be half blind and get taken out by hungry skulks, you can compare it with flashbangs in CS. It's a mechanics that often helps in taking over key points on the map.
It's fine as it is, only setting I did turn off was the atmospheric effect that shows the white flashlight beam ( which is just annoying ). But all the smoke, spores, lights, explosions and dust clouds add a realy good atmosphere to the game imo.
What is nice with theses topics that comes up periodically is that you can just copy-paste your answers:
<b>Low health visual/sound. </b> The function of low health feedback is to inform the player that he's vulnerable and to force him to get healed.
1. Players shouldn't be forced to get healed, rather they should be able to decide depending on the situation. Running back to an armory is not specially fun. 2. Low health notification shouldn't impair the player effectiveness as having low health makes him very vulnerable already. 3. Information can be conveyed without being annoying.
<b>Umbra </b> The function of umbra is to suck some bullets to protect aliens.
1. Visual impairment is redundant with the primary function of umbra. Umbra should be made a transparent as possible (that is, players can still identify clearly umbra clouds).
<b>Jetpack dust</b>
Jetpack dust has no gameplay function, it's there only to give life to the game.
1. Jetpack dust should be made as discrete as possible (visually and fps-wise) while still giving some life to the world.
OP, you missed out on one vital problem. One vital flaw in your argument.
If you were any good, the alien team wouldn't have gotten that far. Prevention is better than cure. By running off and being a rambo and dying without accomplishing anything, you and your marines caused that result.
NS and NS2 have always been games where you reap what you sow. Start playing at a state of tactical inferiority and the enemy team will end it that way.
The same thing happens to aliens (in reverse situations) with how jetpacks give you more air-time than leap and how EXO's don't need to retreat like oni if they're being welded by 5 macs. A single exo being 5-mac welded will withstand 3 oni.
AGAIN, tactical superiority results in alot of onscreen clutter from the marines. Deal with it or piss off.
<!--quoteo(post=2034436:date=Nov 25 2012, 12:55 PM:name=purephoenix)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (purephoenix @ Nov 25 2012, 12:55 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2034436"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->OP, you missed out on one vital problem. One vital flaw in your argument.
If you were any good, the alien team wouldn't have gotten that far.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> ah yes, so in order to prevent visual clutter from observatory scans, we should just be good enough to know where they are all the time. I can see how skill balances out bad graphics design now.
<!--quoteo(post=2034436:date=Nov 25 2012, 12:55 PM:name=purephoenix)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (purephoenix @ Nov 25 2012, 12:55 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2034436"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->AGAIN, tactical superiority results in alot of onscreen clutter from the marines. Deal with it or piss off.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> that's pretty rude
<!--quoteo(post=2034436:date=Nov 25 2012, 01:55 PM:name=purephoenix)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (purephoenix @ Nov 25 2012, 01:55 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2034436"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->A single exo being 5-mac welded will withstand 3 oni.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Rofl, simply untrue. Ever seen enzyme Onos?
You're wrong here. And in regards to your point of view on his skill or his marines' skill.. it really doesn't take any skill to hold down M1/M2 to drop gas or use a vision obscuring ability.. wheras the Marine has to have excellent tracking and prediction skills to fight back.
I think you have the skill requirement backwards here.
<!--quoteo(post=2034445:date=Nov 26 2012, 07:39 AM:name=Gliss)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Gliss @ Nov 26 2012, 07:39 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2034445"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->ah yes, so in order to prevent visual clutter from observatory scans, we should just be good enough to know where they are all the time. I can see how skill balances out bad graphics design now<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Moot point. Don't twist words to suite your own perverse intentions. Stomp, Leap, Blink, 2nd hive upgrades and bilebomb should all be higher priority than lerk spores because they are more rewarding abilities in terms of team constitution. A lerk already has a ranged attack with spikes and can harrass from a distance, where the other life forms don't. A good Kham should only be getting spores and umbra once the 3rd hive is up.
If your team can't orgnanise itself well enough to stop a 30-40 minute skill from being researched, you deserve to lose.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->that's pretty rude<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> It was intended to be, this is a troll thread from a troll poster who should know better from his NS1 days than to whinge about immersion.
NS1 had far more immersion and far more issues with particles reducing performance. He's got nothing to complain about.
You're wrong here. And in regards to your point of view on his skill or his marines' skill.. it really doesn't take any skill to hold down M1/M2 to drop gas or use a vision obscuring ability.. wheras the Marine has to have excellent tracking and prediction skills to fight back.
I think you have the skill requirement backwards here.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/wiki/index.php/Drifter" target="_blank">http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/wiki/index.php/Drifter</a> Get your facts straight before you post. 25% attack speed increase is not going to stop a 5-mac welded exo. 5 MAC's can keep an exo up vs 2 sometimes 3 onos indefinately, depending on how skill the oni are and the frequency they actually land attacks.
EDIT: Forgot about nano shield too, if you really want to include commander abilities. 25% attack speed, meet my 50% damage reduction!
Also, it DOES take skill to avoid being 1-hit-killed by a shotgun as you're flying in point blank range to drop said gas. Clearly we have a case of log/eye here and you need to stop being a hypocrit.
I've never had a problem with the particle effects, I like them.
The way some of you guys argue about things is just embarrassing. Just calmly state your point without thinking everyone who disagrees with you is some sort of ridiculous retard that deserves to be hated and killed. No one is ever going to have their opinion swayed by super aggressive nasty ego posts by people who are acting like the situation is life or death.
Troll threads will always turn out that way, thus the frequency of them getting locked. Insults are generally proven to be more effective at getting stubborn people to listen, so that too contributes to thread negativity since people use them in the off-chance the person they're trying to convince is just stubborn and not an actual troll.
You can always tell a proper troll apart from someone who's thick headed or stubborn by the way they interact with data. If you give a legitimate, non-counterable argument that proves them wrong, 99% of the time the troll will just outright ignore it and keep on posting.
I think the difference here is that some people think this game should be about competition and thus things like vision obscuring are 'evil' and obstacles to it, and others want the game to be about fun, which things like vision obscurants can be another tool to use in the game to that end.
I for one do not and never will care about some silly-ass ladder with a bunch of clan-tag-wearing elitists playing each other, and would rather see a game actually be creative and fun, so big -1 from me.
You may not do, but about half of the community in practically any game does. Even if they don't clan scrim/war themselves, esports as a spectator industry is really taking off. This has been seen in games like dota2, HoN, LoL, Starcraft 2 and others.
UWE always intended for a competitive scene to be viable and balanced, that's just something you'll have to accept unless you're prepared to drop NS entirely.
That's why matches are so one-sided once you get past certain stages of the game. It's a game that rewards good tactical abilities and punishes poor decision making. In this way, it also prevents stalemates and sieges by ensuring the team that turtles is the team that is going to lose.
I personally don't understand why anyone would think this a bad design concept; It saves you all time by ensuring games don't go for up to 2 days like some NS1 matches did. Granted, said version was balanced for late game and these matches only turned out this way when when matches went over an hour - but it did happen.
The biggest strength NS2 has is it strongly rewards skill. Most people aren't used to that since most companies have dumbed down their offerings in the last 10 years. CoD for example no longer requires intimate knowledge of game mechanics or scripting, even on the PC versions. Many authors bandaide their poor design flaws or skill ceilings with "features" like regenerating health, being able to throw back grenades, helicopter call-ins (CoD), Second wind, specials that heal you, assisted aiming (Borderlands).
This doesn't make a great game however. Great games reward their player base for the amount of effort the player puts in. NS is such a game.
If you can't deal with that, it's not a design fault on behalf of UWE, it's just your attitude resulting from playing too many dumbed-down games.
<!--quoteo(post=2034590:date=Nov 26 2012, 12:27 AM:name=purephoenix)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (purephoenix @ Nov 26 2012, 12:27 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2034590"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->You may not do, but about half of the community in practically any game does.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
That couldn't be more wrong. Look at the number of mulitplayer games and compare them to the number of games that have any relevance whatsoever in e-sports.
Then compare to the number of players who actually even play competitively.
Unless your game is destined for e-sports greatness (TF2, LoL, Starcraft), you will make no money trying to appeal to that playerbase and all it will do is alienate the monetary core of the game, the pub player. Seeing as how over a 4-day weekened, NS2 struggled to break 3,000 players, less than half what it was two weeks ago, it's pretty fair to say that people have already been driven away by the game's misdirection.
And even TF2 was balanced and designed around being just as fun to play in a pub without feeling like it was clogged with "e-sports" mechanics. And it's one of the most successful multiplayer shooters of all time because of it.
<!--quoteo(post=2034603:date=Nov 25 2012, 06:35 PM:name=Temphage)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Temphage @ Nov 25 2012, 06:35 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2034603"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Seeing as how over a 4-day weekened, NS2 struggled to break 3,000 players, less than half what it was two weeks ago, it's pretty fair to say that people have already been driven away by the game's misdirection.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> I don't.
Using TF2 as an example was the biggest mistake you could've made, because you proved me right. TF2 is exorbitantly dumbed down compared to TFC.
As for the raw numbers of competitive players, how is that even relevant? If it's interesting to watch, the spectators will always out number the clanners. That will never, ever change.
<!--quoteo(post=2034608:date=Nov 26 2012, 12:40 AM:name=purephoenix)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (purephoenix @ Nov 26 2012, 12:40 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2034608"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Using TF2 as an example was the biggest mistake you could've made, because you proved me right. TF2 is exorbitantly dumbed down compared to TFC.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> If you'd actually read, you'll notice I didn't touch your completely subjective bull###### 'skill' argument at all, because it was nothing but a strawman argument.
So TF2 is a dumbed-down game. It still takes skill, it's still fun in *ALL* forms of play, and it's still a thousand times more successful than anything UWE could make while still desperately clinging to the 1999 model of FPS gaming.
<!--quoteo(post=2033673:date=Nov 25 2012, 06:26 AM:name=Pikachu)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Pikachu @ Nov 25 2012, 06:26 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2033673"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I can't tell if you guys are serious or not. The video evidence shows aliens using vision obscuring particle effects <i>and still loosing</i>. Two alien players were dedicated to dropping those effects as 30 pRes lerks and were still dominated within their clouds by a 25 pres shotgun at medium range.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> This
<!--quoteo(post=2034603:date=Nov 26 2012, 11:35 AM:name=Temphage)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Temphage @ Nov 26 2012, 11:35 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2034603"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Seeing as how over a 4-day weekened,<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> 4-day weekend?
<!--quoteo(post=2034603:date=Nov 26 2012, 11:35 AM:name=Temphage)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Temphage @ Nov 26 2012, 11:35 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2034603"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Seeing as how over a 4-day weekened, NS2 struggled to break 3,000 players<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> ((cannot edit my earlier post ... so ...))
Where was this 4-day weekend and where did you pull those numbers from?
<!--quoteo(post=2034627:date=Nov 26 2012, 12:51 AM:name=Daworm)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Daworm @ Nov 26 2012, 12:51 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2034627"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->((cannot edit my earlier post ... so ...))
Where was this 4-day weekend and where did you pull those numbers from?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> It was Thanksgiving in the 'States. Most places got a three-day, maybe four-day if your employer was generous. Point being, this weekend should've seen a LOT of players. Steam's overall playercount is much higher for these four days.
<!--quoteo(post=2034660:date=Nov 26 2012, 12:21 PM:name=Temphage)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Temphage @ Nov 26 2012, 12:21 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2034660"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->It was Thanksgiving in the 'States. Most places got a three-day, maybe four-day if your employer was generous. Point being, this weekend should've seen a LOT of players. Steam's overall playercount is much higher for these four days.
NS2 lost over 50% of its playerbase from its highest of 7,135 players on the evening of Nov 4th.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> I had a look, for the last fortnight, it's had a consistent ebb of players, I agree it's lost 4000 players from it's launch day, and currently it's lower than it was previously...
But America != rest of the world.
The fact it is consistent for the last fortnight in it's numbers (give or take a hundred on any given day of the upwards peak) it's done quite well. Trending the same as other more popular and well known titles in it's ebb and flow of overall players.
<!--quoteo(post=2034436:date=Nov 26 2012, 07:55 AM:name=purephoenix)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (purephoenix @ Nov 26 2012, 07:55 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2034436"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->OP, you missed out on one vital problem. One vital flaw in your argument.
If you were any good, the alien team wouldn't have gotten that far. Prevention is better than cure. By running off and being a rambo and dying without accomplishing anything, you and your marines caused that result. .... AGAIN, tactical superiority results in alot of onscreen clutter from the marines. Deal with it or piss off.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> I'm really disappointed that someone from /AUS/ clan would show not only such purposeful ignorance of the game, but such bad manner. A real shame. <!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->It was intended to be, this is a troll thread from a troll poster who should know better from his NS1 days than to whinge about immersion.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> I think i know why i'm attracting so many trolls. I once told imbalanxed to stop making so many inane threads, and was quite rudely accused of skulk speed hacking a few days ago by pure phoenix (rofl). I'm thus probably the wrong person to be making these threads although i think they still need to be made.
-------------------------------------------- I can totally understand why some of you like the current level of particle effects. This is i think because of the following two reasons 1) You havn't played enough hours to get over the initial immersion kick, fully understand what vision obstruction is actually doing to you, and fully understand how it affects the flow of the game if you "sit back and wait for it to go away". This is understandable and legit. 2) You havn't yet experienced being purposely trolled with every single vision blocking mechanic at every step constantly throughout a game.
Some of you are basing your judgement based on (incomplete) personal experience hence why i originally tried to get community footage to paint a complete and honest picture we could discuss around. Yes, i would personally like to see NS2 remove all visually obscuring mechanics, but in acknowledgement of <b>your enjoyment</b> I've tried infact to come to you to seek a reasonable middle ground*edit* (If it still isn't clear by now, that middle ground is a well defined set of vision blockers by design purpose). The thread has however clearly devolved into a malicious effort to derail and misrepresent reasonable discussion and intent into lock. I would request that any mod do so if they see fit since the thread doesn't seem to be going anywhere. Congratulations trolls, you win again, but threads like this will only keep popping up - You'll have your work cut out for you.
As for aliens not winning the engagement in one sample footage, that's a pretty redundant piece of information. If i give a team infinite pres, but they all spend it on flamethrowers and still lose in one example, does this mean infinite pres is not a very big deciding factor? If an alien team spams vision obstruction, then only uses a single onos of all things (pretty hard to see an onos) and loses to a full team beacon, does this mean vision obstruction is not a very big deciding factor?
Your threads are always written highly emotionally, so you get a highly emotional response.
That's about it. More reasoning = better argument = more meaningful discussion. Even so, it comes down to your "OMG look at those HORRIBLE effects, I can't see ###### OMG, please everyone post at least 65535 more videos I can't believe this OMG" vs my "They're fine."
I agree though, imbalanxd is more or less a troll :-P . I mean, the name kind of gives it away.
<!--quoteo(post=2034861:date=Nov 26 2012, 04:42 PM:name=HeatSurge)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (HeatSurge @ Nov 26 2012, 04:42 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2034861"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Your threads are always written highly emotionally, so you get a highly emotional response.
That's about it. More reasoning = better argument = more meaningful discussion. Even so, it comes down to your "OMG look at those HORRIBLE effects, I can't see ###### OMG, please everyone post at least 65535 more videos I can't believe this OMG" vs my "They're fine."<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> I guess we have a different understanding of highly emotional then. You're right, i shouldn't have put all that OMG in my OP. Strawman after strawman. This is why the thread isn't going anywhere.
As for the lack of reasoning and arguement provided by me (I did provide some basic reasoning btw although in a very compact form both in the OP and follow up posts), i've learnt over time it doesn't really matter what i singularly say. In some cases it might be better to spark reasonable community discussion and try and get some consensus and mutual understanding seeing as Charlie doesn't acknowledge problems unless they are 'trending'. Even then, look how long the immensely trending 6-7 minute onos took to fix.
*edit* also, all my threads highly emotional? I would understand your point if this was anywhere close to true.
IronHorseDeveloper, QA Manager, Technical Support & contributorJoin Date: 2010-05-08Member: 71669Members, Super Administrators, Forum Admins, Forum Moderators, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Subnautica Playtester, Subnautica PT Lead, Pistachionauts
<!--quoteo(post=2034857:date=Nov 25 2012, 09:37 PM:name=elodea)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (elodea @ Nov 25 2012, 09:37 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2034857"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I've tried infact to come to you to seek a reasonable middle ground*edit* (If it still isn't clear by now, that middle ground is a well defined set of vision blockers by design purpose).<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Not that i wish to see this thread continue but i found this sentence to be inaccurate. Your first post merely stated <i>"Hopefully UWE has a look at the purpose of each visually obstructing mechanic and has a think about whether it fits their purpose, because quite honestly it's over the top."</i>
There's no "well defined set of vision blockers by design purpose" that you have compromised on or suggested?? Had you instead included some of these it might have sparked a more <b>directed </b>discussion over details instead of the sweeping statement that was made. (remove it all) That's where the miscommunication broke down, imo. :) good day to ya, elodea, and beware the sharks!
Comments
It's fine as it is, only setting I did turn off was the atmospheric effect that shows the white flashlight beam ( which is just annoying ). But all the smoke, spores, lights, explosions and dust clouds add a realy good atmosphere to the game imo.
To be serious though, I don't care either way about the prevalence of visual obscuring in the game.
<b>Low health visual/sound. </b>
The function of low health feedback is to inform the player that he's vulnerable and to force him to get healed.
1. Players shouldn't be forced to get healed, rather they should be able to decide depending on the situation. Running back to an armory is not specially fun.
2. Low health notification shouldn't impair the player effectiveness as having low health makes him very vulnerable already.
3. Information can be conveyed without being annoying.
<b>Umbra </b>
The function of umbra is to suck some bullets to protect aliens.
1. Visual impairment is redundant with the primary function of umbra. Umbra should be made a transparent as possible (that is, players can still identify clearly umbra clouds).
<b>Jetpack dust</b>
Jetpack dust has no gameplay function, it's there only to give life to the game.
1. Jetpack dust should be made as discrete as possible (visually and fps-wise) while still giving some life to the world.
...
If you were any good, the alien team wouldn't have gotten that far.
Prevention is better than cure. By running off and being a rambo and dying without accomplishing anything, you and your marines caused that result.
NS and NS2 have always been games where you reap what you sow. Start playing at a state of tactical inferiority and the enemy team will end it that way.
The same thing happens to aliens (in reverse situations) with how jetpacks give you more air-time than leap and how EXO's don't need to retreat like oni if they're being welded by 5 macs. A single exo being 5-mac welded will withstand 3 oni.
AGAIN, tactical superiority results in alot of onscreen clutter from the marines. Deal with it or piss off.
If you were any good, the alien team wouldn't have gotten that far.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
ah yes, so in order to prevent visual clutter from observatory scans, we should just be good enough to know where they are all the time. I can see how skill balances out bad graphics design now.
<!--quoteo(post=2034436:date=Nov 25 2012, 12:55 PM:name=purephoenix)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (purephoenix @ Nov 25 2012, 12:55 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2034436"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->AGAIN, tactical superiority results in alot of onscreen clutter from the marines. Deal with it or piss off.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
that's pretty rude
Rofl, simply untrue. Ever seen enzyme Onos?
You're wrong here.
And in regards to your point of view on his skill or his marines' skill.. it really doesn't take any skill to hold down M1/M2 to drop gas or use a vision obscuring ability.. wheras the Marine has to have excellent tracking and prediction skills to fight back.
I think you have the skill requirement backwards here.
Moot point. Don't twist words to suite your own perverse intentions. Stomp, Leap, Blink, 2nd hive upgrades and bilebomb should all be higher priority than lerk spores because they are more rewarding abilities in terms of team constitution. A lerk already has a ranged attack with spikes and can harrass from a distance, where the other life forms don't. A good Kham should only be getting spores and umbra once the 3rd hive is up.
If your team can't orgnanise itself well enough to stop a 30-40 minute skill from being researched, you deserve to lose.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->that's pretty rude<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
It was intended to be, this is a troll thread from a troll poster who should know better from his NS1 days than to whinge about immersion.
NS1 had far more immersion and far more issues with particles reducing performance. He's got nothing to complain about.
<!--quoteo(post=2034448:date=Nov 26 2012, 07:48 AM:name=Locklear)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Locklear @ Nov 26 2012, 07:48 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2034448"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Rofl, simply untrue. Ever seen enzyme Onos?
You're wrong here.
And in regards to your point of view on his skill or his marines' skill.. it really doesn't take any skill to hold down M1/M2 to drop gas or use a vision obscuring ability.. wheras the Marine has to have excellent tracking and prediction skills to fight back.
I think you have the skill requirement backwards here.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/wiki/index.php/Drifter" target="_blank">http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/wiki/index.php/Drifter</a>
Get your facts straight before you post. 25% attack speed increase is not going to stop a 5-mac welded exo.
5 MAC's can keep an exo up vs 2 sometimes 3 onos indefinately, depending on how skill the oni are and the frequency they actually land attacks.
EDIT: Forgot about nano shield too, if you really want to include commander abilities. 25% attack speed, meet my 50% damage reduction!
Also, it DOES take skill to avoid being 1-hit-killed by a shotgun as you're flying in point blank range to drop said gas. Clearly we have a case of log/eye here and you need to stop being a hypocrit.
absolutely fine as it is. Adapt, I'd say.
The way some of you guys argue about things is just embarrassing. Just calmly state your point without thinking everyone who disagrees with you is some sort of ridiculous retard that deserves to be hated and killed. No one is ever going to have their opinion swayed by super aggressive nasty ego posts by people who are acting like the situation is life or death.
Insults are generally proven to be more effective at getting stubborn people to listen, so that too contributes to thread negativity since people use them in the off-chance the person they're trying to convince is just stubborn and not an actual troll.
You can always tell a proper troll apart from someone who's thick headed or stubborn by the way they interact with data. If you give a legitimate, non-counterable argument that proves them wrong, 99% of the time the troll will just outright ignore it and keep on posting.
I for one do not and never will care about some silly-ass ladder with a bunch of clan-tag-wearing elitists playing each other, and would rather see a game actually be creative and fun, so big -1 from me.
Even if they don't clan scrim/war themselves, esports as a spectator industry is really taking off. This has been seen in games like dota2, HoN, LoL, Starcraft 2 and others.
UWE always intended for a competitive scene to be viable and balanced, that's just something you'll have to accept unless you're prepared to drop NS entirely.
That's why matches are so one-sided once you get past certain stages of the game. It's a game that rewards good tactical abilities and punishes poor decision making. In this way, it also prevents stalemates and sieges by ensuring the team that turtles is the team that is going to lose.
I personally don't understand why anyone would think this a bad design concept; It saves you all time by ensuring games don't go for up to 2 days like some NS1 matches did. Granted, said version was balanced for late game and these matches only turned out this way when when matches went over an hour - but it did happen.
The biggest strength NS2 has is it strongly rewards skill. Most people aren't used to that since most companies have dumbed down their offerings in the last 10 years. CoD for example no longer requires intimate knowledge of game mechanics or scripting, even on the PC versions. Many authors bandaide their poor design flaws or skill ceilings with "features" like regenerating health, being able to throw back grenades, helicopter call-ins (CoD), Second wind, specials that heal you, assisted aiming (Borderlands).
This doesn't make a great game however. Great games reward their player base for the amount of effort the player puts in. NS is such a game.
If you can't deal with that, it's not a design fault on behalf of UWE, it's just your attitude resulting from playing too many dumbed-down games.
That couldn't be more wrong. Look at the number of mulitplayer games and compare them to the number of games that have any relevance whatsoever in e-sports.
Then compare to the number of players who actually even play competitively.
Unless your game is destined for e-sports greatness (TF2, LoL, Starcraft), you will make no money trying to appeal to that playerbase and all it will do is alienate the monetary core of the game, the pub player. Seeing as how over a 4-day weekened, NS2 struggled to break 3,000 players, less than half what it was two weeks ago, it's pretty fair to say that people have already been driven away by the game's misdirection.
And even TF2 was balanced and designed around being just as fun to play in a pub without feeling like it was clogged with "e-sports" mechanics. And it's one of the most successful multiplayer shooters of all time because of it.
I don't.
TF2 is exorbitantly dumbed down compared to TFC.
As for the raw numbers of competitive players, how is that even relevant? If it's interesting to watch, the spectators will always out number the clanners. That will never, ever change.
TF2 is exorbitantly dumbed down compared to TFC.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
If you'd actually read, you'll notice I didn't touch your completely subjective bull###### 'skill' argument at all, because it was nothing but a strawman argument.
So TF2 is a dumbed-down game. It still takes skill, it's still fun in *ALL* forms of play, and it's still a thousand times more successful than anything UWE could make while still desperately clinging to the 1999 model of FPS gaming.
This
4-day weekend?
Where?
((cannot edit my earlier post ... so ...))
Where was this 4-day weekend and where did you pull those numbers from?
Actually, you can't nano an exo. Not that it matter because you can't kill it through one welder or a few MACs.
And you folks are getting far off-topic. This isn't a thread about the competitive scene.
Where was this 4-day weekend and where did you pull those numbers from?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
It was Thanksgiving in the 'States. Most places got a three-day, maybe four-day if your employer was generous. Point being, this weekend should've seen a LOT of players. Steam's overall playercount is much higher for these four days.
<a href="http://steamgraph.net/index.php?action=graph&appid=4920&from=1351261054" target="_blank">http://steamgraph.net/index.php?action=gra...from=1351261054</a>
NS2 lost over 50% of its playerbase from its highest of 7,135 players on the evening of Nov 4th.
Just like NS1 did every time a decent patch was released.
<a href="http://steamgraph.net/index.php?action=graph&appid=4920&from=1351261054" target="_blank">http://steamgraph.net/index.php?action=gra...from=1351261054</a>
NS2 lost over 50% of its playerbase from its highest of 7,135 players on the evening of Nov 4th.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I had a look, for the last fortnight, it's had a consistent ebb of players, I agree it's lost 4000 players from it's launch day, and currently it's lower than it was previously...
But America != rest of the world.
The fact it is consistent for the last fortnight in it's numbers (give or take a hundred on any given day of the upwards peak) it's done quite well.
Trending the same as other more popular and well known titles in it's ebb and flow of overall players.
If you were any good, the alien team wouldn't have gotten that far.
Prevention is better than cure. By running off and being a rambo and dying without accomplishing anything, you and your marines caused that result.
....
AGAIN, tactical superiority results in alot of onscreen clutter from the marines. Deal with it or piss off.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I'm really disappointed that someone from /AUS/ clan would show not only such purposeful ignorance of the game, but such bad manner. A real shame.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->It was intended to be, this is a troll thread from a troll poster who should know better from his NS1 days than to whinge about immersion.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I think i know why i'm attracting so many trolls. I once told imbalanxed to stop making so many inane threads, and was quite rudely accused of skulk speed hacking a few days ago by pure phoenix (rofl). I'm thus probably the wrong person to be making these threads although i think they still need to be made.
--------------------------------------------
I can totally understand why some of you like the current level of particle effects. This is i think because of the following two reasons
1) You havn't played enough hours to get over the initial immersion kick, fully understand what vision obstruction is actually doing to you, and fully understand how it affects the flow of the game if you "sit back and wait for it to go away". This is understandable and legit.
2) You havn't yet experienced being purposely trolled with every single vision blocking mechanic at every step constantly throughout a game.
Some of you are basing your judgement based on (incomplete) personal experience hence why i originally tried to get community footage to paint a complete and honest picture we could discuss around. Yes, i would personally like to see NS2 remove all visually obscuring mechanics, but in acknowledgement of <b>your enjoyment</b> I've tried infact to come to you to seek a reasonable middle ground*edit* (If it still isn't clear by now, that middle ground is a well defined set of vision blockers by design purpose). The thread has however clearly devolved into a malicious effort to derail and misrepresent reasonable discussion and intent into lock. I would request that any mod do so if they see fit since the thread doesn't seem to be going anywhere. Congratulations trolls, you win again, but threads like this will only keep popping up - You'll have your work cut out for you.
As for aliens not winning the engagement in one sample footage, that's a pretty redundant piece of information. If i give a team infinite pres, but they all spend it on flamethrowers and still lose in one example, does this mean infinite pres is not a very big deciding factor? If an alien team spams vision obstruction, then only uses a single onos of all things (pretty hard to see an onos) and loses to a full team beacon, does this mean vision obstruction is not a very big deciding factor?
That's about it. More reasoning = better argument = more meaningful discussion. Even so, it comes down to your "OMG look at those HORRIBLE effects, I can't see ###### OMG, please everyone post at least 65535 more videos I can't believe this OMG" vs my "They're fine."
I agree though, imbalanxd is more or less a troll :-P . I mean, the name kind of gives it away.
That's about it. More reasoning = better argument = more meaningful discussion. Even so, it comes down to your "OMG look at those HORRIBLE effects, I can't see ###### OMG, please everyone post at least 65535 more videos I can't believe this OMG" vs my "They're fine."<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I guess we have a different understanding of highly emotional then. You're right, i shouldn't have put all that OMG in my OP. Strawman after strawman. This is why the thread isn't going anywhere.
As for the lack of reasoning and arguement provided by me (I did provide some basic reasoning btw although in a very compact form both in the OP and follow up posts), i've learnt over time it doesn't really matter what i singularly say. In some cases it might be better to spark reasonable community discussion and try and get some consensus and mutual understanding seeing as Charlie doesn't acknowledge problems unless they are 'trending'. Even then, look how long the immensely trending 6-7 minute onos took to fix.
*edit* also, all my threads highly emotional? I would understand your point if this was anywhere close to true.
Not that i wish to see this thread continue but i found this sentence to be inaccurate.
Your first post merely stated
<i>"Hopefully UWE has a look at the purpose of each visually obstructing mechanic and has a think about whether it fits their purpose, because quite honestly it's over the top."</i>
There's no "well defined set of vision blockers by design purpose" that you have compromised on or suggested??
Had you instead included some of these it might have sparked a more <b>directed </b>discussion over details instead of the sweeping statement that was made. (remove it all)
That's where the miscommunication broke down, imo.
:)
good day to ya, elodea, and beware the sharks!
::Holds up banner that says "Save Spores!"::