<!--quoteo(post=2029628:date=Nov 19 2012, 11:51 PM:name=Captain Ventris)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Captain Ventris @ Nov 19 2012, 11:51 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2029628"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Squishy, P. Res expenditure for lifeforms and T. Res purchasing of Eggs is separate. You can still evolve Onos on one Hive if you have 75 P. Res.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
First, by the time someone would have pres to Onos its far too late to be useful. The game is over one way or the other 90+ percent of the time. Second, either by gorging/fading/lerking no team in small games say 16 players or less, can afford to have a player just do nothing with his res for that long making this an even rarer occurence.
<!--quoteo(post=2029665:date=Nov 20 2012, 12:15 AM:name=Strayan (NS2HD))--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Strayan (NS2HD) @ Nov 20 2012, 12:15 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2029665"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->The game is balanced via wide consultation, observation, statistic collection, anecdote, and theory. Anything you've heard to the contrary is untrue.
Many people accuse us of balancing only for competitive, or only for public, or only for win/loss ratio, or even of favouring a particular team. All of that is untrue. The reality is NS2 is an extremely complicated interconnected system. That system can be upset, or corrected, by even the tiniest rippling changes.
Charlie casts an extremely wide net when balancing it, and anything you might have heard to the contrary is incorrect.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Exactly, small fixes have big ripples, so why does the team keeping making LARGE unnecessary changes off of what appear to be whims? There is no reason for what has happened to Onos in this patch. There was no reason for what happened to regen/craigs last patch. There was no reason to break skulk bite a month or so ago during beta.
You know why SC2 which has three races but can maintain incredible balance? Because it has David Kim and his team of balancers. With all due respect the current Dev team has nothing even remotely equivalent at the moment.
<!--quoteo(post=2029665:date=Nov 20 2012, 03:15 PM:name=Strayan (NS2HD))--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Strayan (NS2HD) @ Nov 20 2012, 03:15 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2029665"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->The game is balanced via wide consultation, observation, statistic collection, anecdote, and theory. Anything you've heard to the contrary is untrue.
Many people accuse us of balancing only for competitive, or only for public, or only for win/loss ratio, or even of favouring a particular team. All of that is untrue. The reality is NS2 is an extremely complicated interconnected system. That system can be upset, or corrected, by even the tiniest rippling changes.
Charlie casts an extremely wide net when balancing it, and anything you might have heard to the contrary is incorrect.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Casting a wide net is not always a sign of well thought out logic, a lot of my job revolves around data, I deal with many "stake holders" who like to look at pretty graphs and lots of numbers...but dont understand what they are looking at.
I have played a lot of games with comms who dont listen, simply just ignore advise..head down silly paths such as exo's before upgrades. In previous build they could be useless and not worry as marines where OP'd an d mistakes didn't matter...now they actually matter inexperience in comms is showing. People will learnt to comm as marine before alien so you going to see fewer marine wins, simply becuase people build up basic strats and ideas of map control as marine then apply this knowledge when they start comming alien.
The 3rd hive solution as others have said is terrible, Veil illustrates this a map with 4 tech points so 2 v2 is likely. Even with double aliens WILL NEVER be able to buy a Tres onos....yet marine comm can buy what ever he wants for his side. I appreciate that you believe Onos eggs a big problem, actually its the lerk and fade that are the issue as they dont offer the return on investment that an onos does. Increase their "in game value" (not cost) you will solve the 6 min onos.
<!--quoteo(post=2029667:date=Nov 20 2012, 01:16 AM:name=Sewlek)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Sewlek @ Nov 20 2012, 01:16 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2029667"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->combat timeout is still 1.5, that patch note is out dated.
onos could almost regenerate twice as much before (about 110 per second)<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Are you guys able to update the notes? I hate to keep railing on this but it's crazy the amount of misinformation that makes it(or doesn't make it) into the patch notes. It spreads a lot of confusion and conflicting rumors.
<u><i>BALANCE</i></u> 1) I've previously mentioned that there should be a match mode for compy rules and normal mode for public games. (i agree with the some post people have posted regarding a tournament mode)
2) I do think that instantaneously we should be seeing marines win a lot since lerks and fades are pretty much useless against exos. i believe this would happen especially for ns2_viel (the map with nanogrid) it's unlikely we will ever see an onos until B231.
3) I don't like how marines get lvl 3 WP/AMR with 1 CC. its ridiculous. most of the time when i comm as marines prior to 229, if i rush for weapons 3 armor 1 / no mines or shotties or aa / jp exos ... i pretty marine cream aliens without me doing much as a comm... all i need is for my team to hold me 4 extractors
4) I don't think it is really balanced for marines to have sentries the way there are too. while it takes nothing extra to down hydras/whips, sentries are actually very hard to kill with base lifeform shulks. another issue is that whips have limited usage and limited placement options. I am against that idea that structure defenses are static defense which hold their line without human players present.
5) Onos are difficult to deal with in small servers, however in large servers they become the only real option of ever accomplishing anything.
6) aliens need direct scaling (IE in terms of HP/DMG/ARMR/ENERGY/MOVESPEED etc) instead of only passive things like "leap" --- once there is a second hive
7) if the current marines weapon/armour system remains, there must be a way (like aliens) to permanently lose the upgrade
Not sure where this conception started that Onoses are the counter to Exos, but IMO it's pretty much the reverse, upgraded Exos shred Onoses to pieces. Exos are brought down by isolating and swarming them.
<!--quoteo(post=2029634:date=Nov 19 2012, 08:56 PM:name=Vitdom)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Vitdom @ Nov 19 2012, 08:56 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2029634"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Thank you! I have been waiting for these changes to the skulk since the movement responsiveness was removed/extremely reduced months back!
Two ideas: <ul><li>Please implement a C-like #include directive to the NS2 Lua API. Even though Lua might not have this(I don't know a lot about Lua) it'd greatly improve modability friendliness! (tell me if this already exists!)</li><li>Make the observatory's detection zone show up in spectator mode</li></ul><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I'm pretty sure Script.Load("blah.lua") will accomplish what you need, unless you're talking about some other functionality.
<!--quoteo(post=2029690:date=Nov 20 2012, 12:32 AM:name=Zek)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Zek @ Nov 20 2012, 12:32 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2029690"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Not sure where this conception started that Onoses are the counter to Exos, but IMO it's pretty much the reverse, upgraded Exos shred Onoses to pieces. Exos are brought down by isolating and swarming them.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Probably because an Onos can steamroll 1 good exo or two bad exos and in pubs marines don't typically have coordination. Or maybe because coordinated swarming of exos is incredibly difficult in a game where aliens spawn randomly and can't teleport between hives so you need to take a huge amount of time and coordination to get any sort of consistent swarming and therefore in a pub it's much easier for a few lifeforms to coordinate and kill exos in practical terms.
And realistically, even if a solo Onos isn't the intended way to kill Exo's I can't fathom why you would think they couldn't be part of that swarm making it far easier to get the kills as the exos waste all their bullets on the Onos and the Onos backs up.
<!--quoteo(post=2029693:date=Nov 19 2012, 11:36 PM:name=Tim)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Tim @ Nov 19 2012, 11:36 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2029693"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I think they're trying to encourage the amount of fades. Haven't seen many lately. Everyone seems to res ###### for an onos.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Not sure what res ######ing is, but it's hard to blame people. Why would you go fade, a lifeform that can die in two lucky shotgun hits, does only slightly more damage to marines than skulk (and less to buildings!) and costs 50 pres when you can save for just 25 more and get a lifeform that takes a whole team to down, kills everything but a3 in 2 hits, and absolutely wrecks structures?
My belief that an well played onos trumps an exo any day of the week comes from my personal experiences.
As a solo onos, I have yet to die to an exo. Infact, only jetpacker marines have been able to chase me deep enough behind enemy lines to take me down, and those are extremely rare occasions. By picking my fights carefully, and taking advantage of their limited FoV, I am able to quite reliably pick off single exos at a time, even with up to two normal marines supporting the exo.
They key is to ensure that you're in melee range before their guns finish spinning up, and to make sure that they miss enough of their shots to overheat before you're dead. Circle-strafing as an onos is remarkably effective in this situation.
<!--quoteo(post=2029650:date=Nov 20 2012, 02:06 AM:name=wiry)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (wiry @ Nov 20 2012, 02:06 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2029650"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->A "Tournament mode" won't really solve anything though. It will just increase the gap between public players and competitive players even further.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->I disagree. The gap will always be there, regardless of balance. Some people are better than others. I used to play competitively (not NS), and while I enjoyed it I can also see how you'll never have a balance that makes both sides happy.
While the devs will try, they're really searching for a holy grail that no game on the market has yet to find.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->What I would like to see is that the 6v6 matchups are the standard gametype. The majority of the playerbase would probably disagree with me<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->Indeed, since the most popular servers are those with the most people. Even the official UWE servers are overwhelmingly 8v8. Yet if you look at the servers that are full right now, are there any 6v6 servers full? No. None. They are all 8v8 and up.
I get that 6v6 works for competitive play, but that's not how the PUBLIC like to play. Seeing as they're the ones buying it, I would think we would be wise to cater to what they like to play and not what they don't.
This is a business first and foremost, and you don't make money in business by telling the customers what they want. Any business that does will find that the customers will likely give them the finger. :)
<!--quoteo(post=2029683:date=Nov 19 2012, 11:24 PM:name=SquishyOne)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (SquishyOne @ Nov 19 2012, 11:24 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2029683"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->First, by the time someone would have pres to Onos its far too late to be useful. The game is over one way or the other 90+ percent of the time. Second, either by gorging/fading/lerking no team in small games say 16 players or less, can afford to have a player just do nothing with his res for that long making this an even rarer occurence.
Exactly, small fixes have big ripples, so why does the team keeping making LARGE unnecessary changes off of what appear to be whims? There is no reason for what has happened to Onos in this patch. There was no reason for what happened to regen/craigs last patch. There was no reason to break skulk bite a month or so ago during beta.
You know why SC2 which has three races but can maintain incredible balance? Because it has David Kim and his team of balancers. With all due respect the current Dev team has nothing even remotely equivalent at the moment.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You might want to actually play the patch before you deign yourself worthy of judging this dev team. It's been stated several times already that some of the patch notes are outdated. And they already mentioned the 3 hive onos is temporary, but something in that regards had to change when combined with other buffs the aliens have recently gotten. An early regen onos with a gorge could occupy nearly the entire marine team much too early in the game.
<!--quoteo(post=2029699:date=Nov 20 2012, 06:41 AM:name=SteveRock)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (SteveRock @ Nov 20 2012, 06:41 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2029699"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I'm pretty sure Script.Load("blah.lua") will accomplish what you need, unless you're talking about some other functionality.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> I don't have a detailed understanding of how Script.Load works, but in modding where it specifies the same local filename, it should refer to the original file instead of the local file. I wasn't so clear about this in my post.
I recently made a mod that had this file: ServerAdminCommands.lua <!--c1--><div class='codetop'>CODE</div><div class='codemain'><!--ec1-->// Script.Load("lua/ServerAdminCommands.lua") ... HAD TO BE REPLACED WITH THE ORIGINAL FILE ...
local function HPK_MaxPing(client, limit) if limit then Server.SetConfigSetting("max_ping", tonumber(limit)) Shared.Message("sv_maxping " .. limit) end end CreateServerAdminCommand("Console_sv_maxping", HPK_MaxPing, "<limit>, sets clients' max allowed ping. Kicks if exceeded!")<!--c2--></div><!--ec2--> Without replacing Script.Load("ServerAdminCommands.lua") with the entire original file, I experienced the effect of the original file not loading at all.
It's pretty obvious how good the benefits would turn out if this function was the case.
<!--quoteo(post=2029708:date=Nov 20 2012, 07:47 AM:name=Rokiyo)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Rokiyo @ Nov 20 2012, 07:47 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2029708"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->My belief that an well played onos trumps an exo any day of the week comes from my personal experiences.
As a solo onos, I have yet to die to an exo. Infact, only jetpacker marines have been able to chase me deep enough behind enemy lines to take me down, and those are extremely rare occasions. By picking my fights carefully, and taking advantage of their limited FoV, I am able to quite reliably pick off single exos at a time, even with up to two normal marines supporting the exo.
They key is to ensure that you're in melee range before their guns finish spinning up, and to make sure that they miss enough of their shots to overheat before you're dead. Circle-strafing as an onos is remarkably effective in this situation.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
>never been forced to die to an exo >never gets shot from range >enemies miss an ONOS in melee range
Oh good lord man, what servers are you playing on?
Nice update Are you guys still using <a href="https://getsatisfaction.com/unknownworlds/topics/easier_structures_acces_for_commanders" target="_blank">https://getsatisfaction.com/unknownworlds/t..._for_commanders</a> ??
<!--quoteo(post=2029663:date=Nov 20 2012, 06:13 AM:name=hazteli)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (hazteli @ Nov 20 2012, 06:13 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2029663"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->40% in marine victory can also be explained by the increasing numbers of players waiting in the ready room to enter marine and which consequently blocks the entrance to the more experienced players who can give advice.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> There is a very simple way to get an advantage(first in line) in the team join stacking queue. :)
<!--quoteo(post=2029706:date=Nov 19 2012, 10:46 PM:name=minos_)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (minos_ @ Nov 19 2012, 10:46 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2029706"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Not sure what res ######ing is, but it's hard to blame people. Why would you go fade, a lifeform that can die in two lucky shotgun hits, does only slightly more damage to marines than skulk (and less to buildings!) and costs 50 pres when you can save for just 25 more and get a lifeform that takes a whole team to down, kills everything but a3 in 2 hits, and absolutely wrecks structures?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
That's exactly my experience. I like the idea of playing fade, but usually we don't have blink researched yet, and I die way to easily to spend all my res on that, so I just skulk a bit longer and evolve into an onos and get a good return on my investment. Usually I stay alive long enough that when I eventually die, I have another 75 res or close to it. This doesn't happen as a fade (or a lerk for that matter).
DecoyJoin Date: 2012-09-11Member: 159037Members, Super Administrators, Playtest Lead, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Squad Five Silver, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Silver, Subnautica Playtester, Subnautica PT Lead, Pistachionauts, Retired Community Developer
<!--quoteo(post=2029663:date=Nov 20 2012, 01:13 AM:name=hazteli)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (hazteli @ Nov 20 2012, 01:13 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2029663"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->40% in marine victory can also be explained by the increasing numbers of players waiting in the ready room to enter marine and which consequently blocks the entrance to the more experienced players who can give advice.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The newer players tend to be more scared of alien because it's something that is totally unlike any other game they've played. Nobody wants to be bad, so they'll try to stick with what they know. (This is not true of all post 1.0 players, but there's a good portion. They're slowly branching out.) If I want to play marines, I generally have to spam the console command to get on that side. I've been playing alien a ton. Not to mention that alien requires less coordination than marines, so it's nowhere near as frustrating to play with noobs. I feel like there's a lot more to teach and ways to encourage players on aliens.
I think my only issue with UWE's updates is that they're usually too big of changes. Would it be any more of a pain in the butt to roll it out in two patches, one a week, than one patch in 2 weeks? I feel like that could really be effective. Do half the changes first, see how the balance goes. If you're nerfing one team and buffing the other, do a little bit of each. I still have nightmares about that patch (220? 221?) where marines got way buffed and aliens got way nerfed. I really hope UWE is really proactive in preventing any trainwrecks like that from ever occuring again.
<!--quoteo(post=2029623:date=Nov 19 2012, 09:49 PM:name=SquishyOne)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (SquishyOne @ Nov 19 2012, 09:49 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2029623"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->The alien com I just played with said he couldn't drop an onos without a third hive. If this is correct it is an incredibly inartful solution to the problem of early onos. The problem with early onos is that it is EARLY, not that it comes with two hives. The simplest solution is simply making it not droppable until 10-15 minutes into the game and bam, problem is solved with no other balance ramifications. Now you have aliens who could get trapped on two hives for 20-30 minutes and have almost no comeback solution which is a collateral consequencethat has nothing to do with the timer issues. As much as I have loved ns1 and hope to someday love ns2 the balancing component of the dev team is like a bull in a chinashop...<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
That is technically a hack, not a balance mechanic...
Played about 6 games tonight. Don't know what you guys are talking about but "3 hive t-res onos" is the best thing ever! Winning as alien now takes a little bit of TEAMWORK and not just getting a quick hive, 3 harvesters and wait for 75 res! Games seemed a lot more fun. I stopped playing 229 entirely because it was becoming stale. Glad to see 230 is in good shape.
EDIT: Why aren't updates showing up on the news section on steam <a href="http://store.steampowered.com/news/9272/" target="_blank">like 228</a> was?
The Aliens leading unevenly on the win ratio is only because of the 6 minute Onos, but instead of properly addressing that UWE have nerfed other areas of the Alien race and failed to correctly buff evolution such as the Gorge and the Fade.
No one wants the 6 minutes Onos, i would rather the Onos be completely removed and instead have another unit put in its place that has a much higher skill cap.
I'll start playing Aliens again when the mid evolution's get the buffs they need, or more features are added for the gorge to experiment with.
Balance wise, I like most the changes except for the following.
Shift Hatch ability change which makes it too expensive and arbitrarily slow to be viable unless aliens already own the map. I predict Egg locking will be an even bigger issue this patch. Onos armour nerf was unnecessary, the problem was how they would often come out too early to be dealt with effectively, which leads on to... Onos tres drop on 3 hives. I like that something has been done about this, but this particular option will cause some problems to alien lategame especially on Veil. TRES for life form drops should not = PRES alongside something along the lines of only being able to TRES drop a life form after it as been evolved by a player in the game would be nice. But it's good that you have now recognised it as a temporary fix at least.
It looks like the Arc targeting bug that I experienced with the balance beta is in 230 as well :(.
<!--quoteo(post=2029735:date=Nov 20 2012, 07:18 AM:name=Beemorriscats)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Beemorriscats @ Nov 20 2012, 07:18 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2029735"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->The newer players tend to be more scared of alien because it's something that is totally unlike any other game they've played. Nobody wants to be bad, so they'll try to stick with what they know. (This is not true of all post 1.0 players, but there's a good portion. They're slowly branching out.) If I want to play marines, I generally have to spam the console command to get on that side. I've been playing alien a ton. Not to mention that alien requires less coordination than marines, so it's nowhere near as frustrating to play with noobs. I feel like there's a lot more to teach and ways to encourage players on aliens.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Comments
does seem a bit easier to get & maintain a speed boost.
Edit: easier to 10 or so. Not much luck getting higher
First, by the time someone would have pres to Onos its far too late to be useful. The game is over one way or the other 90+ percent of the time. Second, either by gorging/fading/lerking no team in small games say 16 players or less, can afford to have a player just do nothing with his res for that long making this an even rarer occurence.
<!--quoteo(post=2029665:date=Nov 20 2012, 12:15 AM:name=Strayan (NS2HD))--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Strayan (NS2HD) @ Nov 20 2012, 12:15 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2029665"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->The game is balanced via wide consultation, observation, statistic collection, anecdote, and theory. Anything you've heard to the contrary is untrue.
Many people accuse us of balancing only for competitive, or only for public, or only for win/loss ratio, or even of favouring a particular team. All of that is untrue. The reality is NS2 is an extremely complicated interconnected system. That system can be upset, or corrected, by even the tiniest rippling changes.
Charlie casts an extremely wide net when balancing it, and anything you might have heard to the contrary is incorrect.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Exactly, small fixes have big ripples, so why does the team keeping making LARGE unnecessary changes off of what appear to be whims? There is no reason for what has happened to Onos in this patch. There was no reason for what happened to regen/craigs last patch. There was no reason to break skulk bite a month or so ago during beta.
You know why SC2 which has three races but can maintain incredible balance? Because it has David Kim and his team of balancers. With all due respect the current Dev team has nothing even remotely equivalent at the moment.
Many people accuse us of balancing only for competitive, or only for public, or only for win/loss ratio, or even of favouring a particular team. All of that is untrue. The reality is NS2 is an extremely complicated interconnected system. That system can be upset, or corrected, by even the tiniest rippling changes.
Charlie casts an extremely wide net when balancing it, and anything you might have heard to the contrary is incorrect.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Casting a wide net is not always a sign of well thought out logic, a lot of my job revolves around data, I deal with many "stake holders" who like to look at pretty graphs and lots of numbers...but dont understand what they are looking at.
I have played a lot of games with comms who dont listen, simply just ignore advise..head down silly paths such as exo's before upgrades.
In previous build they could be useless and not worry as marines where OP'd an d mistakes didn't matter...now they actually matter inexperience in comms is showing.
People will learnt to comm as marine before alien so you going to see fewer marine wins, simply becuase people build up basic strats and ideas of map control as marine then apply this knowledge when they start comming alien.
The 3rd hive solution as others have said is terrible, Veil illustrates this a map with 4 tech points so 2 v2 is likely.
Even with double aliens WILL NEVER be able to buy a Tres onos....yet marine comm can buy what ever he wants for his side.
I appreciate that you believe Onos eggs a big problem, actually its the lerk and fade that are the issue as they dont offer the return on investment that an onos does.
Increase their "in game value" (not cost) you will solve the 6 min onos.
onos could almost regenerate twice as much before (about 110 per second)<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Are you guys able to update the notes? I hate to keep railing on this but it's crazy the amount of misinformation that makes it(or doesn't make it) into the patch notes. It spreads a lot of confusion and conflicting rumors.
1) I've previously mentioned that there should be a match mode for compy rules and normal mode for public games. (i agree with the some post people have posted regarding a tournament mode)
2) I do think that instantaneously we should be seeing marines win a lot since lerks and fades are pretty much useless against exos. i believe this would happen especially for ns2_viel (the map with nanogrid) it's unlikely we will ever see an onos until B231.
3) I don't like how marines get lvl 3 WP/AMR with 1 CC. its ridiculous. most of the time when i comm as marines prior to 229, if i rush for weapons 3 armor 1 / no mines or shotties or aa / jp exos ... i pretty marine cream aliens without me doing much as a comm... all i need is for my team to hold me 4 extractors
4) I don't think it is really balanced for marines to have sentries the way there are too. while it takes nothing extra to down hydras/whips, sentries are actually very hard to kill with base lifeform shulks. another issue is that whips have limited usage and limited placement options. I am against that idea that structure defenses are static defense which hold their line without human players present.
5) Onos are difficult to deal with in small servers, however in large servers they become the only real option of ever accomplishing anything.
6) aliens need direct scaling (IE in terms of HP/DMG/ARMR/ENERGY/MOVESPEED etc) instead of only passive things like "leap" --- once there is a second hive
7) if the current marines weapon/armour system remains, there must be a way (like aliens) to permanently lose the upgrade
<!--c1--><div class='codetop'>CODE</div><div class='codemain'><!--ec1-->Client connected (127.0.0.1)
[Server] Script Error #2: lua/Gamerules_Global.lua:36: attempt to index a nil value
Call stack:
#1: lua/Gamerules_Global.lua:36
client = ServerClient {}<!--c2--></div><!--ec2-->
...then, I have to disconnect with the console.
I don't know if it's related to the patch or anything, but it started today. I was just wondering if anybody had the same issue.
Edit: Got my answer... <a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/index.php?showtopic=124916" target="_blank">http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/in...howtopic=124916</a>
Two ideas:
<ul><li>Please implement a C-like #include directive to the NS2 Lua API. Even though Lua might not have this(I don't know a lot about Lua) it'd greatly improve modability friendliness! (tell me if this already exists!)</li><li>Make the observatory's detection zone show up in spectator mode</li></ul><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I'm pretty sure Script.Load("blah.lua") will accomplish what you need, unless you're talking about some other functionality.
Probably because an Onos can steamroll 1 good exo or two bad exos and in pubs marines don't typically have coordination. Or maybe because coordinated swarming of exos is incredibly difficult in a game where aliens spawn randomly and can't teleport between hives so you need to take a huge amount of time and coordination to get any sort of consistent swarming and therefore in a pub it's much easier for a few lifeforms to coordinate and kill exos in practical terms.
And realistically, even if a solo Onos isn't the intended way to kill Exo's I can't fathom why you would think they couldn't be part of that swarm making it far easier to get the kills as the exos waste all their bullets on the Onos and the Onos backs up.
Not sure what res ######ing is, but it's hard to blame people. Why would you go fade, a lifeform that can die in two lucky shotgun hits, does only slightly more damage to marines than skulk (and less to buildings!) and costs 50 pres when you can save for just 25 more and get a lifeform that takes a whole team to down, kills everything but a3 in 2 hits, and absolutely wrecks structures?
As a solo onos, I have yet to die to an exo. Infact, only jetpacker marines have been able to chase me deep enough behind enemy lines to take me down, and those are extremely rare occasions. By picking my fights carefully, and taking advantage of their limited FoV, I am able to quite reliably pick off single exos at a time, even with up to two normal marines supporting the exo.
They key is to ensure that you're in melee range before their guns finish spinning up, and to make sure that they miss enough of their shots to overheat before you're dead. Circle-strafing as an onos is remarkably effective in this situation.
While the devs will try, they're really searching for a holy grail that no game on the market has yet to find.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->What I would like to see is that the 6v6 matchups are the standard gametype. The majority of the playerbase would probably disagree with me<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->Indeed, since the most popular servers are those with the most people. Even the official UWE servers are overwhelmingly 8v8. Yet if you look at the servers that are full right now, are there any 6v6 servers full? No. None. They are all 8v8 and up.
I get that 6v6 works for competitive play, but that's not how the PUBLIC like to play. Seeing as they're the ones buying it, I would think we would be wise to cater to what they like to play and not what they don't.
This is a business first and foremost, and you don't make money in business by telling the customers what they want. Any business that does will find that the customers will likely give them the finger. :)
Exactly, small fixes have big ripples, so why does the team keeping making LARGE unnecessary changes off of what appear to be whims? There is no reason for what has happened to Onos in this patch. There was no reason for what happened to regen/craigs last patch. There was no reason to break skulk bite a month or so ago during beta.
You know why SC2 which has three races but can maintain incredible balance? Because it has David Kim and his team of balancers. With all due respect the current Dev team has nothing even remotely equivalent at the moment.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You might want to actually play the patch before you deign yourself worthy of judging this dev team. It's been stated several times already that some of the patch notes are outdated. And they already mentioned the 3 hive onos is temporary, but something in that regards had to change when combined with other buffs the aliens have recently gotten. An early regen onos with a gorge could occupy nearly the entire marine team much too early in the game.
I don't have a detailed understanding of how Script.Load works, but in modding where it specifies the same local filename, it should refer to the original file instead of the local file. I wasn't so clear about this in my post.
I recently made a mod that had this file:
ServerAdminCommands.lua
<!--c1--><div class='codetop'>CODE</div><div class='codemain'><!--ec1-->// Script.Load("lua/ServerAdminCommands.lua")
... HAD TO BE REPLACED WITH THE ORIGINAL FILE ...
local function HPK_MaxPing(client, limit)
if limit then
Server.SetConfigSetting("max_ping", tonumber(limit))
Shared.Message("sv_maxping " .. limit)
end
end
CreateServerAdminCommand("Console_sv_maxping", HPK_MaxPing, "<limit>, sets clients' max allowed ping. Kicks if exceeded!")<!--c2--></div><!--ec2-->
Without replacing Script.Load("ServerAdminCommands.lua") with the entire original file, I experienced the effect of the original file not loading at all.
It's pretty obvious how good the benefits would turn out if this function was the case.
As a solo onos, I have yet to die to an exo. Infact, only jetpacker marines have been able to chase me deep enough behind enemy lines to take me down, and those are extremely rare occasions. By picking my fights carefully, and taking advantage of their limited FoV, I am able to quite reliably pick off single exos at a time, even with up to two normal marines supporting the exo.
They key is to ensure that you're in melee range before their guns finish spinning up, and to make sure that they miss enough of their shots to overheat before you're dead. Circle-strafing as an onos is remarkably effective in this situation.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
>never been forced to die to an exo
>never gets shot from range
>enemies miss an ONOS in melee range
Oh good lord man, what servers are you playing on?
Are you guys still using <a href="https://getsatisfaction.com/unknownworlds/topics/easier_structures_acces_for_commanders" target="_blank">https://getsatisfaction.com/unknownworlds/t..._for_commanders</a> ??
There is a very simple way to get an advantage(first in line) in the team join stacking queue. :)
Clue: Old habits will grant you precedence...
That's exactly my experience. I like the idea of playing fade, but usually we don't have blink researched yet, and I die way to easily to spend all my res on that, so I just skulk a bit longer and evolve into an onos and get a good return on my investment. Usually I stay alive long enough that when I eventually die, I have another 75 res or close to it. This doesn't happen as a fade (or a lerk for that matter).
The newer players tend to be more scared of alien because it's something that is totally unlike any other game they've played. Nobody wants to be bad, so they'll try to stick with what they know. (This is not true of all post 1.0 players, but there's a good portion. They're slowly branching out.) If I want to play marines, I generally have to spam the console command to get on that side. I've been playing alien a ton. Not to mention that alien requires less coordination than marines, so it's nowhere near as frustrating to play with noobs. I feel like there's a lot more to teach and ways to encourage players on aliens.
I think my only issue with UWE's updates is that they're usually too big of changes. Would it be any more of a pain in the butt to roll it out in two patches, one a week, than one patch in 2 weeks? I feel like that could really be effective. Do half the changes first, see how the balance goes. If you're nerfing one team and buffing the other, do a little bit of each. I still have nightmares about that patch (220? 221?) where marines got way buffed and aliens got way nerfed. I really hope UWE is really proactive in preventing any trainwrecks like that from ever occuring again.
Aaaaand celerity lerk feels slower. Is that just me?
That is technically a hack, not a balance mechanic...
EDIT: Why aren't updates showing up on the news section on steam <a href="http://store.steampowered.com/news/9272/" target="_blank">like 228</a> was?
<img src="http://img600.imageshack.us/img600/7876/sdffdsf.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
also might wanna update this sometime...
<img src="http://img641.imageshack.us/img641/4474/29006988.png" border="0" class="linked-image" />
and wtf 30k? no most you ever had was like 200 at any given time.
No one wants the 6 minutes Onos, i would rather the Onos be completely removed and instead have another unit put in its place that has a much higher skill cap.
I'll start playing Aliens again when the mid evolution's get the buffs they need, or more features are added for the gorge to experiment with.
Shift Hatch ability change which makes it too expensive and arbitrarily slow to be viable unless aliens already own the map. I predict Egg locking will be an even bigger issue this patch.
Onos armour nerf was unnecessary, the problem was how they would often come out too early to be dealt with effectively, which leads on to...
Onos tres drop on 3 hives. I like that something has been done about this, but this particular option will cause some problems to alien lategame especially on Veil. TRES for life form drops should not = PRES alongside something along the lines of only being able to TRES drop a life form after it as been evolved by a player in the game would be nice. But it's good that you have now recognised it as a temporary fix at least.
It looks like the Arc targeting bug that I experienced with the balance beta is in 230 as well :(.
+1
Mapper was already notified but could not get the fix in time for 230 going out. Should be fixed in 231.
<!--quoteo(post=2029740:date=Nov 20 2012, 07:26 AM:name=dongraegu)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (dongraegu @ Nov 20 2012, 07:26 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2029740"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--><img src="http://img641.imageshack.us/img641/4474/29006988.png" border="0" class="linked-image" />
and wtf 30k? no most you ever had was like 200 at any given time.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Maybe, but 30k+ was correct for that time so they could put that on there.