<!--quoteo(post=2029650:date=Nov 19 2012, 07:06 PM:name=wiry)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (wiry @ Nov 19 2012, 07:06 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2029650"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->A "Tournament mode" won't really solve anything though. It will just increase the gap between public players and competitive players even further.
What I would like to see is that the 6v6 matchups are the standard gametype. Where you search for a game, much like in Mobas. Make the current form of public servers a mod, or whatever. Adding from-menu availability to spectate "top" games.
There is a lot of useful things to gather from dota2, lol and starcraft. It is also a way to avoid having to balance for 6v6 and games with up to 30 players.
The majority of the playerbase would probably disagree with me, haters gonna hate etc.
<3<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I'm sort of against any MM in NS (though only because I've had bad experiences with them in other team games), simply because NS is one of those few games where random pub play is really coordinated and dedicated servers allow you to become well known as a skilled player if you can consistently do good in said server.
It's not like CS or TF2 where it becomes mindless in 30 player servers.
Plus, the environment is more friendly regarding dedicated servers.
Finally in small player situations (6v6) and with "solo queuing", or randomly being grouped up with a small amount of players (especially with MMR and stat tracking) - this just leads into such a horrible experience IMO. The game becomes nothing but a "who to blame" fest. Plus, randomly playing with other players (in a team game) will barely resemble actual competitive play.
That's why I personally prefer playing a game like StarCraft 2 or good old WC3 (can't wait for WC4) in 1v1s more "competitively" than playing a game like Dota (or team games in general) competitively.
I'm glad that NS2 is one of those few team vs team games that actually have resemblance to competitively play without all the QQ and whining present that other team based games have.
Anyway back on topic - I definitely think the best way to do balance changes is to do feedback with players in general. Like list things that are being looked into and ask for player ideas on how to balance.
Right after every balance change, I always see someone listing an alternative and (IMO) better balance change than the one UWE did.
Blizzard right now is doing that for SC2 (well for HotS and to some extent WoL).
<a href="http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/search?f=post&a=Rock&sort=time" target="_blank">Dustin Browder (lead designer for SC2)'s post on the SC2 forums</a>. Note he hasn't posted in a while due to BWC but before, he posts frequently.
Not that I'm saying UWE isn't doing that (In fact, I remember a few threads where Flayra posted in one of the balance threads, pre release) but we could have more (official) threads designated for balance discussions and ideas.
Marines are gonna be crushing face again now, competitive games are gonna be a bit silly for the current term, but I think this is a better platform for balance to come in in the near future. Less dependent on 1 alien lifeform to carry the entire game on it's shoulders using a broken upgrade.
[edit] for the record, tech point power nodes are still the biggest balance point being effected in pub play causing marine losses. It's just too razors edge beaconing to save a power node, the commander can't spare 3 seconds of lapse in awareness. This shouldn't really hurt competitive play though.
<!--quoteo(post=2029755:date=Nov 19 2012, 11:57 PM:name=Mango)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Mango @ Nov 19 2012, 11:57 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2029755"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Can someone answer me this question. How many bases those it take to create a exo? If it's 3 bases than the 3 hives for onos is justified.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The wording in the patch can be confusing. To clarify the patch notes mean that the <i>commander dropped t-res onos eggs</i> require 3 hives. You can still go onos on 1 hive and at any time as long as you have the 75 p-res.
<!--quoteo(post=2029713:date=Nov 20 2012, 05:51 AM:name=Savant)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Savant @ Nov 20 2012, 05:51 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2029713"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I disagree. The gap will always be there, regardless of balance. Some people are better than others. I used to play competitively (not NS), and while I enjoyed it I can also see how you'll never have a balance that makes both sides happy.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> It has less to do with the skill differences and more to do with the inaccessibility. It's bad enough that a player has to learn one set of complex rules, balance values and all that. Creating another, partitially overlapping rule and balance combination that only gets play on very specific context and servers would be horrendously inaccessible and greatly reduce the potential player pool of comp games.
A much more elegant solution to the 6 min Onos egg rush was to tie it to Hive Maturity. Only when 2 hives are fully mature can the Khammander drop a T.res Onos egg. This would add at least 3 minutes more to the time before he can drop eggs, and allows marines a window to prevent that from happening.
Not going to lie, i really dislike the changes in this patch. Marines seem to be at such a high advantage... aliens always seem to be "catching up".
1.) Three hives required for Onos made problems worse. Much of the time the alien team can barely get by securing a second hive locked down let alone three.
2.) Fade blink has become worthless with the nerf to energy. Fades are meant to blink in and blink out. Up their damage if you wish to nerf their movement.
3.) Onos nerf i haven't been able to fully see the results of yet. It does seem like it was too much of a nerf though.
4.) Flamethrower does TOO much damage to whips. Either extend Whip range, or make flamethrower damage less vs whip. A flamethrower killing a Whip (or group of) in 2-3 seconds is a little biased.
I played about 6 games tonight. Not one was won by alien team. I played marine twice.
<!--quoteo(post=2029761:date=Nov 20 2012, 02:01 PM:name=rantology)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (rantology @ Nov 20 2012, 02:01 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2029761"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->The wording in the patch can be confusing. To clarify the patch notes mean that the <i>commander dropped t-res onos eggs</i> require 3 hives. You can still go onos on 1 hive and at any time as long as you have the 75 p-res.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
not the person you're replying to, but thanks anyway
NS2 needs both a competative game and a casual game, the casual should favour the aliens and be aimed at rookie and less experienced players since playing the aliens is much harder. Competative should be balanced sinve veterans know how to play both sides.
<!--quoteo(post=2029799:date=Nov 20 2012, 08:46 AM:name=snaga)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (snaga @ Nov 20 2012, 08:46 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2029799"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->With 4 harvesters, you can get a pres Onos in 11 minutes. Seems about right to me.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I guess you counted having 4 resnode from the start and not loosing any.....
I think its the wrong way to go about the early onos. This could have been solved by adjusting the cost and health of the onos.
I've only played 2 matches since the patch, both as Alien. One was bad regardless of what build it was, we failed to even grab a second hive and keep the relatively small marine forces in either direction from advancing.
The other went pretty well. I forget maps easily but its the map where marines always spawn at Control and Aliens randomly spawn at Sub-sector, Cargo or Pipeline. We started out at Pipe, managed to grab and hold nano early, as well as secure a hive in Cargo later. For a little while there was mostly fights at System Waypoint and it was 2 Marine bases (control and sub sector) vs our two Alien bases. We still got an Onos out on the field since our res influence helped players who hadn't gone lerk/fade evolve to onos. I even went gorge to defend nano and layed a total of 6 hyrdas and still had enough pres after enough time to go onos.
The Marine team held out but the commander seemed too Emergency Beacon-happy. We kept forcing them to bounce back and forth between control and sub sector before we finally knocked out sub sector's power. We had a lerk, fade, multiple onos and a couple gorges all hammering away at marine structures. At that point we easily made a 3rd hive in sub sector and the Marines started to build Armory walls at the entrances to their control base. The final standoff was prolonged another 5-10 annoying minutes, but bile bombs eventually cleared out the Armories and the power inevitably fell. I can't speak for the skill of the Marine team, they didn't do as well as they could have, they certainly had the right pushes by constantly cutting cyst chains to nano early on and pushing nano/cargo in groups, but we countered them very well. Our Khammander made some nice build decisions too with whip placement and echoing whips; we went shift first, crag second, and never got to shade since the match ended so quickly after our 3rd hive went up.
While it wasn't frustratingly hard to take down the armory walls at the end of the match, the game shouldn't have gone on longer than necessary. That was my only real complaint.
someone mentioned about the problem of tourney players and pub players having an even wider skill gap IF there is tourney mode.
1) i don't see how is that a problem. past experience suggest that tourney players actually prefer to avoid a lot of pub games --- if you seriously were a tourney player, playing pub game lowers your skill level...
2) the main issue should be addressing casual players to be able to enjoy the features of tourney mode. therefore an there should be some form of match making system for casual players - EG Check box for i. Serious tourney (laddered or something) ii. Casual tourney, iii. Rookie tourney (casual only) - telling people you are new to tourney mode iv. buddy system (link your buddies and you to the same match/team)
3) it is true most people suggest ONE system of game mechanics cannot satisfy ALL types of players. therefore taking from a marketing concept called "segmentation" it would be ideal to provide either i) a system that automatically scales based on the number of players ii) a tourney mode for serious players, and a normal mode for casual public players.
<!--quoteo(post=2029808:date=Nov 20 2012, 01:55 AM:name=jakthereitirks)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (jakthereitirks @ Nov 20 2012, 01:55 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2029808"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Anyone ever have it where you single click a server on the list and it just disappears?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
When you click on a server, it updates the info (ping, playercount) for that server. If you have any filters set such as no empty/full servers or servers above a certain ping and the server you just clicked suddenly fulfills one of those conditions, it will disappear.
Lev SteelJoin Date: 2012-10-13Member: 162274Members, Reinforced - Shadow
1. Dropping fast Onos was really a 95% win for aliens on public and made it pretty hard on comp. games as well. So this is a major balance fix!
2. The Exos got a little Buff, made it more viable during mid-game where armor has not been upgraded, so this is also an more of an option now. We'll see how that works out. I still think, they need a little more love.
3. I can't really find a point in reducing the welder rate. They are supposed to build up structures faster and "weld/repair stuff". By reducing the rate it will take much longer to fix up a damaged base. I don't think, there really was a need for that. Especially on pubs you won't see a lot of ppl weld bases (at least "low players" usually don't).
4. Are you serious about that 5 res for f***ing 2 eggs? I mean.. a cooldown is about okay, since they wont get spammed this way. But raising the costs to 250%... omg.
5. Changing Hive build time to 150% is... dunno... no point here. Looks like you just want to force aliens away from the fast 2nd hive tactics. That actually makes eggs (if they are rare, which they are in early games) even more "expensive" during early games. Egg-Locks become more viable this way :-(
with these changes... <img src="http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m92q6nNO4e1qczmf4o2_500.png" border="0" class="linked-image" /> <!--sizeo:5--><span style="font-size:18pt;line-height:100%"><!--/sizeo-->R. I. P. Alien Team<!--sizec--></span><!--/sizec-->
Update:
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Evolving Onos eggs now requires three Hives instead of two. Onos eggs are a complex matter, and are a work in progress! Reduced Onos armor by 100 (-8%, effectiveness vs. Exos and heavy weapons impacted less because armor). Exo armor changed from to 300/390/480/570 to 400/460/520/580. Increase start blink energy cost from 8 to 12. Shift Hatch now creates 2 eggs, but costs 5 resources and has a 5 second cool down (was 1 tres per egg, no cooldown). Hive build time increased from 150 seconds to 180 seconds. Reduced Onos Gore range by 0.5 meters. Added cooldown to shift hatch ability. Lowered max healing on Crag. Reduced mega regeneration (max regeneration is now 10 per second instead of 120). Doubled ARC rate of fire (halved damage)<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->When NS2 launched, first 100,000 games displayed a remarkable win loss ratio: 49% Marine wins, 51% alien wins.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> This has not many to do with the balance at all...or did you just nerfed aliens so hard because they win 2% more? You can add alienbots in the next patch, so there will be never stacked marine team again. And nobody is forced to torture himself playing aliens (with leaver because after 3 minutes marines get shotguns and instantkill every alien.)
Edit: The welder nerf was obviously aimed at <a href="http://www.youtube.com/user/fatpower" target="_blank">Fatpower</a>.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Still i don't see the point here. Just killed him as regen skulk yesterday... xD
<!--quoteo(post=2029852:date=Nov 20 2012, 12:01 PM:name=Price)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Price @ Nov 20 2012, 12:01 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2029852"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->with these changes... <img src="http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m92q6nNO4e1qczmf4o2_500.png" border="0" class="linked-image" /> <!--sizeo:5--><span style="font-size:18pt;line-height:100%"><!--/sizeo-->R. I. P. Alien Team<!--sizec--></span><!--/sizec-->
Update:
This has not many to do with the balance at all...or did you just nerfed aliens so hard because they win 2% more? You can add alienbots in the next patch, so there will be never stacked marine team again. And nobody is forced to torture himself playing aliens (with leaver because after 3 minutes marines get shotguns and instantkill every alien.)<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Well, AvM win ratio was 60% to 40% (more specifically 57,05% for aliens and 42,95% for marines). I haven't really had much of a problem winning as marines, maybe it was just me (only pub play).
What I don't like is... well the direction of all this.
First of all, Marines are supposed to have most of the map control, yet, they are completly viable on 1 CC. Aliens are supposed to have way less RTs and overall less map control to be viable, yet, you are almost dead when it's 2cc vs 2 hives and you can just F4 as soon as you lose 2nd hive. That's what I don't like, Aliens should be TOTALLY dangerous at 1 or 2 hives, but they are not. Marines should be paper like and die quickly when on only 1 CC.
What I would like to see is... to build an armslab you would need 2nd CC. You still would have armslab with only 1 base, as long as it was built, but you couldn't rebuild it afterwards if it was destroyed. Maybe gonna make a suggestion topic soon, I've got couple of ideas I would like to throw in...
Overall, I do like changes in the patch, they are interesting indeed and I want to see how the game plays with them.
with tres onos out of the way i think we have a chance to see the rest of the game... thank you!
btw guys, stop acting 'defeated' before you've even played it for more than an hour or so. give it at least a few days and some objective analysis before you moan about it being broken...
it's not good for the game if you scream bloody murder every time a balance patch is released. try to have a little faith in the devs.
Comments
What I would like to see is that the 6v6 matchups are the standard gametype. Where you search for a game, much like in Mobas. Make the current form of public servers a mod, or whatever. Adding from-menu availability to spectate "top" games.
There is a lot of useful things to gather from dota2, lol and starcraft. It is also a way to avoid having to balance for 6v6 and games with up to 30 players.
The majority of the playerbase would probably disagree with me, haters gonna hate etc.
<3<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I'm sort of against any MM in NS (though only because I've had bad experiences with them in other team games), simply because NS is one of those few games where random pub play is really coordinated and dedicated servers allow you to become well known as a skilled player if you can consistently do good in said server.
It's not like CS or TF2 where it becomes mindless in 30 player servers.
Plus, the environment is more friendly regarding dedicated servers.
Finally in small player situations (6v6) and with "solo queuing", or randomly being grouped up with a small amount of players (especially with MMR and stat tracking) - this just leads into such a horrible experience IMO. The game becomes nothing but a "who to blame" fest. Plus, randomly playing with other players (in a team game) will barely resemble actual competitive play.
That's why I personally prefer playing a game like StarCraft 2 or good old WC3 (can't wait for WC4) in 1v1s more "competitively" than playing a game like Dota (or team games in general) competitively.
I'm glad that NS2 is one of those few team vs team games that actually have resemblance to competitively play without all the QQ and whining present that other team based games have.
Anyway back on topic - I definitely think the best way to do balance changes is to do feedback with players in general. Like list things that are being looked into and ask for player ideas on how to balance.
Right after every balance change, I always see someone listing an alternative and (IMO) better balance change than the one UWE did.
Blizzard right now is doing that for SC2 (well for HotS and to some extent WoL).
<a href="http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/search?f=post&a=Rock&sort=time" target="_blank">Dustin Browder (lead designer for SC2)'s post on the SC2 forums</a>. Note he hasn't posted in a while due to BWC but before, he posts frequently.
Not that I'm saying UWE isn't doing that (In fact, I remember a few threads where Flayra posted in one of the balance threads, pre release) but we could have more (official) threads designated for balance discussions and ideas.
[edit] for the record, tech point power nodes are still the biggest balance point being effected in pub play causing marine losses. It's just too razors edge beaconing to save a power node, the commander can't spare 3 seconds of lapse in awareness. This shouldn't really hurt competitive play though.
The wording in the patch can be confusing. To clarify the patch notes mean that the <i>commander dropped t-res onos eggs</i> require 3 hives. You can still go onos on 1 hive and at any time as long as you have the 75 p-res.
It has less to do with the skill differences and more to do with the inaccessibility. It's bad enough that a player has to learn one set of complex rules, balance values and all that. Creating another, partitially overlapping rule and balance combination that only gets play on very specific context and servers would be horrendously inaccessible and greatly reduce the potential player pool of comp games.
1.) Three hives required for Onos made problems worse. Much of the time the alien team can barely get by securing a second hive locked down let alone three.
2.) Fade blink has become worthless with the nerf to energy. Fades are meant to blink in and blink out. Up their damage if you wish to nerf their movement.
3.) Onos nerf i haven't been able to fully see the results of yet. It does seem like it was too much of a nerf though.
4.) Flamethrower does TOO much damage to whips. Either extend Whip range, or make flamethrower damage less vs whip. A flamethrower killing a Whip (or group of) in 2-3 seconds is a little biased.
I played about 6 games tonight. Not one was won by alien team. I played marine twice.
<a href="http://s14.directupload.net/images/121120/ojze7d6s.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://s14.directupload.net/images/121120/wjxznnyu.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" /></a>
BUG! :P
Where do I have to report that?
not the person you're replying to, but thanks anyway
I guess you counted having 4 resnode from the start and not loosing any.....
I think its the wrong way to go about the early onos.
This could have been solved by adjusting the cost and health of the onos.
This just makes the game more linear.
Im not saying the previous onos was fine though.
The other went pretty well. I forget maps easily but its the map where marines always spawn at Control and Aliens randomly spawn at Sub-sector, Cargo or Pipeline. We started out at Pipe, managed to grab and hold nano early, as well as secure a hive in Cargo later. For a little while there was mostly fights at System Waypoint and it was 2 Marine bases (control and sub sector) vs our two Alien bases. We still got an Onos out on the field since our res influence helped players who hadn't gone lerk/fade evolve to onos. I even went gorge to defend nano and layed a total of 6 hyrdas and still had enough pres after enough time to go onos.
The Marine team held out but the commander seemed too Emergency Beacon-happy. We kept forcing them to bounce back and forth between control and sub sector before we finally knocked out sub sector's power. We had a lerk, fade, multiple onos and a couple gorges all hammering away at marine structures. At that point we easily made a 3rd hive in sub sector and the Marines started to build Armory walls at the entrances to their control base. The final standoff was prolonged another 5-10 annoying minutes, but bile bombs eventually cleared out the Armories and the power inevitably fell. I can't speak for the skill of the Marine team, they didn't do as well as they could have, they certainly had the right pushes by constantly cutting cyst chains to nano early on and pushing nano/cargo in groups, but we countered them very well. Our Khammander made some nice build decisions too with whip placement and echoing whips; we went shift first, crag second, and never got to shade since the match ended so quickly after our 3rd hive went up.
While it wasn't frustratingly hard to take down the armory walls at the end of the match, the game shouldn't have gone on longer than necessary. That was my only real complaint.
1) i don't see how is that a problem. past experience suggest that tourney players actually prefer to avoid a lot of pub games --- if you seriously were a tourney player, playing pub game lowers your skill level...
2) the main issue should be addressing casual players to be able to enjoy the features of tourney mode. therefore an there should be some form of match making system for casual players
- EG Check box for
i. Serious tourney (laddered or something)
ii. Casual tourney,
iii. Rookie tourney (casual only) - telling people you are new to tourney mode
iv. buddy system (link your buddies and you to the same match/team)
3) it is true most people suggest ONE system of game mechanics cannot satisfy ALL types of players. therefore taking from a marketing concept called "segmentation" it would be ideal to provide either
i) a system that automatically scales based on the number of players
ii) a tourney mode for serious players, and a normal mode for casual public players.
When you click on a server, it updates the info (ping, playercount) for that server. If you have any filters set such as no empty/full servers or servers above a certain ping and the server you just clicked suddenly fulfills one of those conditions, it will disappear.
I guess it must not be up on all steam content servers, I'll try switching.
EDIT: Nevermind, I still had it on the "opt in for beta patches" setting.
2. The Exos got a little Buff, made it more viable during mid-game where armor has not been upgraded, so this is also an more of an option now. We'll see how that works out. I still think, they need a little more love.
3. I can't really find a point in reducing the welder rate. They are supposed to build up structures faster and "weld/repair stuff". By reducing the rate it will take much longer to fix up a damaged base. I don't think, there really was a need for that. Especially on pubs you won't see a lot of ppl weld bases (at least "low players" usually don't).
4. Are you serious about that 5 res for f***ing 2 eggs? I mean.. a cooldown is about okay, since they wont get spammed this way. But raising the costs to 250%... omg.
5. Changing Hive build time to 150% is... dunno... no point here. Looks like you just want to force aliens away from the fast 2nd hive tactics. That actually makes eggs (if they are rare, which they are in early games) even more "expensive" during early games. Egg-Locks become more viable this way :-(
Edit: The welder nerf was obviously aimed at <a href="http://www.youtube.com/user/fatpower" target="_blank">Fatpower</a>.
<img src="http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m92q6nNO4e1qczmf4o2_500.png" border="0" class="linked-image" />
<!--sizeo:5--><span style="font-size:18pt;line-height:100%"><!--/sizeo-->R. I. P. Alien Team<!--sizec--></span><!--/sizec-->
Update:
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Evolving Onos eggs now requires three Hives instead of two. Onos eggs are a complex matter, and are a work in progress!
Reduced Onos armor by 100 (-8%, effectiveness vs. Exos and heavy weapons impacted less because armor).
Exo armor changed from to 300/390/480/570 to 400/460/520/580.
Increase start blink energy cost from 8 to 12.
Shift Hatch now creates 2 eggs, but costs 5 resources and has a 5 second cool down (was 1 tres per egg, no cooldown).
Hive build time increased from 150 seconds to 180 seconds.
Reduced Onos Gore range by 0.5 meters.
Added cooldown to shift hatch ability.
Lowered max healing on Crag.
Reduced mega regeneration (max regeneration is now 10 per second instead of 120).
Doubled ARC rate of fire (halved damage)<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->When NS2 launched, first 100,000 games displayed a remarkable win loss ratio: 49% Marine wins, 51% alien wins.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This has not many to do with the balance at all...or did you just nerfed aliens so hard because they win 2% more?
You can add alienbots in the next patch, so there will be never stacked marine team again.
And nobody is forced to torture himself playing aliens (with leaver because after 3 minutes marines get shotguns and instantkill every alien.)
Edit: The welder nerf was obviously aimed at <a href="http://www.youtube.com/user/fatpower" target="_blank">Fatpower</a>.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Still i don't see the point here. Just killed him as regen skulk yesterday... xD
aliens overall still buffed and more fun x100 than 228
onos rush was stupid and boring anyways
<img src="http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m92q6nNO4e1qczmf4o2_500.png" border="0" class="linked-image" />
<!--sizeo:5--><span style="font-size:18pt;line-height:100%"><!--/sizeo-->R. I. P. Alien Team<!--sizec--></span><!--/sizec-->
Update:
This has not many to do with the balance at all...or did you just nerfed aliens so hard because they win 2% more?
You can add alienbots in the next patch, so there will be never stacked marine team again.
And nobody is forced to torture himself playing aliens (with leaver because after 3 minutes marines get shotguns and instantkill every alien.)<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Well, AvM win ratio was 60% to 40% (more specifically 57,05% for aliens and 42,95% for marines).
I haven't really had much of a problem winning as marines, maybe it was just me (only pub play).
What I don't like is... well the direction of all this.
First of all, Marines are supposed to have most of the map control, yet, they are completly viable on 1 CC.
Aliens are supposed to have way less RTs and overall less map control to be viable, yet, you are almost dead when it's 2cc vs 2 hives and you can just F4 as soon as you lose 2nd hive.
That's what I don't like, Aliens should be TOTALLY dangerous at 1 or 2 hives, but they are not.
Marines should be paper like and die quickly when on only 1 CC.
What I would like to see is... to build an armslab you would need 2nd CC.
You still would have armslab with only 1 base, as long as it was built, but you couldn't rebuild it afterwards if it was destroyed.
Maybe gonna make a suggestion topic soon, I've got couple of ideas I would like to throw in...
Overall, I do like changes in the patch, they are interesting indeed and I want to see how the game plays with them.
btw guys, stop acting 'defeated' before you've even played it for more than an hour or so. give it at least a few days and some objective analysis before you moan about it being broken...
it's not good for the game if you scream bloody murder every time a balance patch is released. try to have a little faith in the devs.
instantly marines suffer the correct amount when losing a base, and have a reason to expand other than exos/jps