<!--quoteo(post=2024317:date=Nov 15 2012, 10:26 AM:name=Goofy)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Goofy @ Nov 15 2012, 10:26 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2024317"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I played quite a few rounds tonight. At first I thought aliens were OP, but then myself and another good player started joining the same team, what ever team we joined won. Marines just need teamwork... As always. Where as aliens just need to harass early on. Hence aliens often win due to lack of teamwork anywhere..<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
think this could be right. saw many marine teams (pre b229) where you coundn't see much teamplay but were able to turtle then slowly expand and that allowed a balanced end game if there were good alien players. That, in fact, was a poor balance as it required a good alien team to win against a poor marine team. A turret start should be punished, not encouraged, in early game.
Now you are giving aliens more room to harass marines. I like it. You have to go out of the base to win.
<!--quoteo(post=2024318:date=Nov 15 2012, 02:34 AM:name=Desther)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Desther @ Nov 15 2012, 02:34 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2024318"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I'm not sure if Vortex is supposed to be like this but if you try to cast it and don't hit anything (marine, structure) then the vortex doesn't appear.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You don't say? Look earlier in the thread. It's apparently a feature.
Again, I'm a little bit surprised at the complete lack of balance changes in the log, some of which are... kinda huge.
Like, camo is 100% now, even when you're moving. It's not camo, it's invisibility. It's also much faster. Oh, and by the way... <b>now you can cloak <u>while flying</u> as a lerk</b>. Lol? I mean, that's kind of pretty significant alone, nevermind all the crag and whip changes (apparently whips bounce grenades better now too?). If feign death makes a return (I really hope so), shade hive might actually be interesting again!
I guess it's fun to discover these things as you play the game, but it'd be kinda good to know them upfront maybe next time :-P ...
puzlThe Old FirmJoin Date: 2003-02-26Member: 14029Retired Developer, NS1 Playtester, Forum Moderators, Constellation
<!--quoteo(post=2024373:date=Nov 15 2012, 10:30 AM:name=Toothy)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Toothy @ Nov 15 2012, 10:30 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2024373"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->DC regen didn't stack with innate regen in NS1, you noob! I tried to get you guys to change that, but you were all '###### you, Toothy, I hate you'.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You are probably correct on both points, but definitely correct on at least one!
<b>Can you post the balance changes please?</b> I've noticed the whips throwing grenades at players again, along with all these regen, cloaking, and vortex changes they were talking about.
Honestly this is what I care more about over sdk and internal code refactoring stuff. I guess it's just a mistake.
<!--quoteo(post=2024411:date=Nov 15 2012, 06:04 AM:name=-FLH-)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (-FLH- @ Nov 15 2012, 06:04 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2024411"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Seven rounds, seven alien wins. Whatever you didn't do it's awesome, yesterday I couldn't play skulk, today I can, many thanks :D<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->At least one player is satisfied :D
<!--quoteo(post=2024387:date=Nov 15 2012, 11:44 AM:name=HeatSurge)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (HeatSurge @ Nov 15 2012, 11:44 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2024387"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->You don't say? Look earlier in the thread. It's apparently a feature.
Again, I'm a little bit surprised at the complete lack of balance changes in the log, some of which are... kinda huge.
Like, camo is 100% now, even when you're moving. It's not camo, it's invisibility. It's also much faster. Oh, and by the way... <b>now you can cloak <u>while flying</u> as a lerk</b>. Lol? I mean, that's kind of pretty significant alone, nevermind all the crag and whip changes (apparently whips bounce grenades better now too?). If feign death makes a return (I really hope so), shade hive might actually be interesting again!<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> The Camouflage was always intended to be like that, before you were NEVER invisible... what's the point to be "cloacked" then? You were just more slow than usual. Btw, in NS1 it was exactly the same, and it works very well. The Lerk flying is a bug I think, and it's not new at all.
For the changelog missing some things, it happened a lot in the past too, don't you remember? It was usual now and then and was corrected some time after the first one, just let some time and stop being angry kids, please. There are so many changes that they lost their minds in it :P
whiners... give it a rest.... it's seriously pathetic...
"BUFF X!"
X gets buffed.
"NERF X!"
if the changes are overpowered or broken, i'm sure there will be a hasty patch to fix it... until then just enjoy the game and stop blaming a patch for your failure.
i felt stronger as a skulk last night in 229, but not in an overpowered way - just in a 'hmm i don't feel like a walking slab of burger meat' way. it seemed like my game performance was also slightly more smooth, although strangely the precache was about twice as long (but loading is insignificant compared to FPS).
maybe the new patch will stop people from stacking marine in every game, then i can play marine and show them how it's done :)
<!--quoteo(post=2024011:date=Nov 14 2012, 09:29 PM:name=elmo9000)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (elmo9000 @ Nov 14 2012, 09:29 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2024011"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Would be pretty cool to have actual balance changes on the changelog and stuff.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--quoteo(post=2024311:date=Nov 15 2012, 01:54 AM:name=crypt)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (crypt @ Nov 15 2012, 01:54 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2024311"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Someone suggested it in the past:
Maybe crag-heal shoudn't stack. Makes balancing much easier<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This or another solution is to have a radius around the crag where you cannot place an additional crag. This prevents crags from healing each other but allows them to stack heals on other players or structures. So if you had 4 crags in a square around a hive, the crags would be easy to kill but the hive would be difficult until the crags are down. It is the solution that I would prefer. Crags should be viable but I get kind of annoyed that you see outposts with 1 shade, 1 shift and 76423789 crags because of how stacking works with them.
It's too early to make calls on balance. Marines have never had to put any real thought into killing structures before, so potent crag farms will require a change in tactics. Maybe we'll actually start seeing ARCs. Does anyone know if crags are affected by the 80% in-combat regen penalty? They probably should be if not.
<!--quoteo(post=2024541:date=Nov 15 2012, 04:06 PM:name=Codeine)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Codeine @ Nov 15 2012, 04:06 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2024541"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->what are the crag changes?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Crags were changed from healing 10hp every 2 seconds to healing 10 + 5% of max health (up to 60), but only stacking 3 times.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Why doesn't UWE post the changelog in the starting post on the forums as well?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
My performance seems to be worse on Mineshaft, oddly. Load times have improved significantly, though, which is amazing. Also, still have a perfect record as Alien comm, and these changes pretty much mean I'm never going to lose, lol. Probably unbalanced.
<!--quoteo(post=2024557:date=Nov 15 2012, 04:33 PM:name=Zaggy)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Zaggy @ Nov 15 2012, 04:33 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2024557"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Question from someone on IRC:<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Yeah I wonder that too, or atleast post a link to the changelog on the main site :o
i love the crag change because it allows alien to siege marine base more effectively when they have 90% of the map...
isn't this what the majority of people wanted? i remember the crying before that it took alien pub teams 30 min to kill 1base turtling marines.... well now you can spam crags/shifts outside and just launch infinite bilebombs into the marine base.
the hp/energy boost from crag and shift is deceptively HUGE and does go through walls like the shade (similar radius to the shade as well). marines need to be very afraid and learn to use ARC's etc.
this is how i expected the game to be designed... you know - the alien buildings actually being decent and marines actually have a reason to kill cysts..
Passive regeneration of lifeforms also feels like buffed, with no other source of healing or the regeneration evolution. Is this what people are talking about when they say "regen"?
Has any buff been made to heal spray damage or perhaps the radius/distance it projects? I noticed last night i was getting an a lot of heal spray kills over a few hours of play.
<!--quoteo(post=2024387:date=Nov 15 2012, 11:44 AM:name=HeatSurge)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (HeatSurge @ Nov 15 2012, 11:44 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2024387"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Like, camo is 100% now, even when you're moving. It's not camo, it's invisibility. It's also much faster. Oh, and by the way... <b>now you can cloak <u>while flying</u> as a lerk</b>. Lol?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Erm...it was possible in build 228 too!
Did you even test this? This new regen on onos. 1 marine cant kill the onos even if the onos sits still doing nothing. In a base rush the Onos can just walk behind the cc and its full hp after taking full of its hp down. I thought you were interested in 6v6 balance because of that ensl tournament but you don't even give players the changelogs to your own game so we don't know what else you have fked up. also 10hps for 2nd tick onward on skulk is also quite 'INTERESTING :D
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->whiners... give it a rest.... it's seriously pathetic...
"BUFF X!"
X gets buffed.
"NERF X!"
if the changes are overpowered or broken, i'm sure there will be a hasty patch to fix it... until then just enjoy the game and stop blaming a patch for your failure.
i felt stronger as a skulk last night in 229, but not in an overpowered way - just in a 'hmm i don't feel like a walking slab of burger meat' way. it seemed like my game performance was also slightly more smooth, although strangely the precache was about twice as long (but loading is insignificant compared to FPS).
maybe the new patch will stop people from stacking marine in every game, then i can play marine and show them how it's done :)<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
As you are almost a complete noob to these forums (been here less that 2 weeks, almost 300 posts, wtf) i will be polite.
This thread is the place for "whineing" as you call it, or feedback as the rest of us call it.
Yes, they will fix it, perhaps hastily, but they wont if we dont tell them what we think.
Perhaps you should wait until you have more experience on these forums, and in game, before you voice your opinion so vociferously.
I've been busy with my other responsibilities this week and didn't have time to make any balance changes. That won't be the situation for long though.
Another thing - VAC is now fully enabled. If anyone finds a link to download a speed hack or other cheat, please send it to tech-support@unknownworlds.com and it will be added to VAC.
Comments
think this could be right.
saw many marine teams (pre b229) where you coundn't see much teamplay but were able to turtle then slowly expand and that allowed a balanced end game if there were good alien players. That, in fact, was a poor balance as it required a good alien team to win against a poor marine team. A turret start should be punished, not encouraged, in early game.
Now you are giving aliens more room to harass marines. I like it. You have to go out of the base to win.
You don't say? Look earlier in the thread. It's apparently a feature.
Again, I'm a little bit surprised at the complete lack of balance changes in the log, some of which are... kinda huge.
Like, camo is 100% now, even when you're moving. It's not camo, it's invisibility. It's also much faster. Oh, and by the way... <b>now you can cloak <u>while flying</u> as a lerk</b>. Lol? I mean, that's kind of pretty significant alone, nevermind all the crag and whip changes (apparently whips bounce grenades better now too?). If feign death
makes a return (I really hope so), shade hive might actually be interesting again!
I guess it's fun to discover these things as you play the game, but it'd be kinda good to know them upfront maybe next time :-P ...
You are probably correct on both points, but definitely correct on at least one!
Honestly this is what I care more about over sdk and internal code refactoring stuff. I guess it's just a mistake.
Again, I'm a little bit surprised at the complete lack of balance changes in the log, some of which are... kinda huge.
Like, camo is 100% now, even when you're moving. It's not camo, it's invisibility. It's also much faster. Oh, and by the way... <b>now you can cloak <u>while flying</u> as a lerk</b>. Lol? I mean, that's kind of pretty significant alone, nevermind all the crag and whip changes (apparently whips bounce grenades better now too?). If feign death
makes a return (I really hope so), shade hive might actually be interesting again!<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The Camouflage was always intended to be like that, before you were NEVER invisible... what's the point to be "cloacked" then? You were just more slow than usual. Btw, in NS1 it was exactly the same, and it works very well.
The Lerk flying is a bug I think, and it's not new at all.
For the changelog missing some things, it happened a lot in the past too, don't you remember? It was usual now and then and was corrected some time after the first one, just let some time and stop being angry kids, please. There are so many changes that they lost their minds in it :P
"BUFF X!"
X gets buffed.
"NERF X!"
if the changes are overpowered or broken, i'm sure there will be a hasty patch to fix it... until then just enjoy the game and stop blaming a patch for your failure.
i felt stronger as a skulk last night in 229, but not in an overpowered way - just in a 'hmm i don't feel like a walking slab of burger meat' way. it seemed like my game performance was also slightly more smooth, although strangely the precache was about twice as long (but loading is insignificant compared to FPS).
maybe the new patch will stop people from stacking marine in every game, then i can play marine and show them how it's done :)
yes.
Maybe crag-heal shoudn't stack. Makes balancing much easier<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This or another solution is to have a radius around the crag where you cannot place an additional crag. This prevents crags from healing each other but allows them to stack heals on other players or structures. So if you had 4 crags in a square around a hive, the crags would be easy to kill but the hive would be difficult until the crags are down. It is the solution that I would prefer. Crags should be viable but I get kind of annoyed that you see outposts with 1 shade, 1 shift and 76423789 crags because of how stacking works with them.
Crags were changed from healing 10hp every 2 seconds to healing 10 + 5% of max health (up to 60), but only stacking 3 times.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Why doesn't UWE post the changelog in the starting post on the forums as well?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yeah I wonder that too, or atleast post a link to the changelog on the main site :o
isn't this what the majority of people wanted? i remember the crying before that it took alien pub teams 30 min to kill 1base turtling marines.... well now you can spam crags/shifts outside and just launch infinite bilebombs into the marine base.
the hp/energy boost from crag and shift is deceptively HUGE and does go through walls like the shade (similar radius to the shade as well). marines need to be very afraid and learn to use ARC's etc.
this is how i expected the game to be designed... you know - the alien buildings actually being decent and marines actually have a reason to kill cysts..
Awesome build btw. I love the regen change<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
There is - even today - ammo, which does not have shells :)
Erm...it was possible in build 228 too!
This new regen on onos. 1 marine cant kill the onos even if the onos sits still doing nothing. In a base rush the Onos can just walk behind the cc and its full hp after taking full of its hp down. I thought you were interested in 6v6 balance because of that ensl tournament but you don't even give players the changelogs to your own game so we don't know what else you have fked up.
also 10hps for 2nd tick onward on skulk is also quite 'INTERESTING :D
"BUFF X!"
X gets buffed.
"NERF X!"
if the changes are overpowered or broken, i'm sure there will be a hasty patch to fix it... until then just enjoy the game and stop blaming a patch for your failure.
i felt stronger as a skulk last night in 229, but not in an overpowered way - just in a 'hmm i don't feel like a walking slab of burger meat' way. it seemed like my game performance was also slightly more smooth, although strangely the precache was about twice as long (but loading is insignificant compared to FPS).
maybe the new patch will stop people from stacking marine in every game, then i can play marine and show them how it's done :)<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
As you are almost a complete noob to these forums (been here less that 2 weeks, almost 300 posts, wtf) i will be polite.
This thread is the place for "whineing" as you call it, or feedback as the rest of us call it.
Yes, they will fix it, perhaps hastily, but they wont if we dont tell them what we think.
Perhaps you should wait until you have more experience on these forums, and in game, before you voice your opinion so vociferously.
I dont even know what is written there.... btw this problem was already in in beta 228.
Another thing - VAC is now fully enabled. If anyone finds a link to download a speed hack or other cheat, please send it to tech-support@unknownworlds.com and it will be added to VAC.