<!--quoteo(post=2024070:date=Nov 15 2012, 03:32 AM:name=False Modesty)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (False Modesty @ Nov 15 2012, 03:32 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2024070"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Can we get some release notes whenever a new build comes out? Everybody does it.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I played 10-ish games today, with Aliens coming out on top every time. I don't know if it was just the server I was on or what, but when I played Aliens we STEAMROLLED... when I played Marines i didn't seem to have any problem getting kills, but we were almost completely unable to expand. I'm not sure if that was a result of the new Regen buffs, or because of unorganized pub play, but the marines were getting stomped bad.
I played 10-ish games today, with Aliens coming out on top every time. I don't know if it was just the server I was on or what, but when I played Aliens we STEAMROLLED... when I played Marines i didn't seem to have any problem getting kills, but we were almost completely unable to expand. I'm not sure if that was a result of the new Regen buffs, or because of unorganized pub play, but the marines were getting stomped bad.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I too did some pub stomping as aliens. It wasn't so much the regen buff but newish marines completely unable to deal with cloaking. We went cloaking first then regen and it was just insane. Granted we did the same thing last night pre-patch and still won, but now its so much easier.
<!--quoteo(post=2024145:date=Nov 15 2012, 07:01 AM:name=Sooty)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Sooty @ Nov 15 2012, 07:01 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2024145"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->The lack of a balance change log for the game's first patch since release Is just disturbing and has affected my confidence in the game's future.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The fact that you think this is the games first patch since release has not changed the level of confidence I have in your opinion, since it was always zero.
<!--quoteo(post=2024151:date=Nov 15 2012, 01:05 PM:name=Imbalanxd)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Imbalanxd @ Nov 15 2012, 01:05 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2024151"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->The fact that you think this is the games first patch since release has not changed the level of confidence I have in your opinion, since it was always zero.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
It increased my confidence, in case you were reading it wrong :pp
Please don't forget to update the Steam News as well. I set it as my start page (because I like to read changelogs) and I'm always interested which companies improve on their games.
I hope that in the future we will get log of balance changes too, it helps competitive game play a lot. Take SC2 for example where they always post balance changes in patch notes.
IronHorseDeveloper, QA Manager, Technical Support & contributorJoin Date: 2010-05-08Member: 71669Members, Super Administrators, Forum Admins, Forum Moderators, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Subnautica Playtester, Subnautica PT Lead, Pistachionauts
<!--quoteo(post=2024053:date=Nov 14 2012, 07:15 PM:name=elodea)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (elodea @ Nov 14 2012, 07:15 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2024053"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->It's really only a matter of time till someone figures out exact spots where you can crag heal through walls. silly crag change is silly
*Looking forward to abusing crags behind whips<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> So then u fix the bug?... sounds like nothing new. I dont get the hoopla over the crag change..
Seriously, you kill the shade in a cloaked room first typically so you can see everything.. you kill the shift to prevent the oncoming defensive aliens from their energy buff.... and you finally now have to kill the crag first before shooting the structure. ?.. i dont get the hate for this change.
And lol @ the conspiracy theories ... remember that one time everyone freaked out when the changelog wasn't posted until a day later? lol...yeahhh..:shakes head:
We apologize for the factual inaccuracies in the patchnotes. We would like to pull them down, and put up a new complete and better version, but we have a strict policy of not changing the patchnotes once they have been posted. It protects the writers of the patchnotes from being pressured to add additional gameplay and balance information by the community, and we stand by this policy.
<!--quoteo(post=2024247:date=Nov 15 2012, 04:44 PM:name=Squeal_Like_A_Pig)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Squeal_Like_A_Pig @ Nov 15 2012, 04:44 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2024247"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->We apologize for the factual inaccuracies in the patchnotes. We would like to pull them down, and put up a new complete and better version, but we have a strict policy of not changing the patchnotes once they have been posted. It protects the writers of the patchnotes from being pressured to add additional gameplay and balance information by the community, and we stand by this policy.
<!--quoteo(post=2024281:date=Nov 15 2012, 08:51 AM:name=kais_fashion)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (kais_fashion @ Nov 15 2012, 08:51 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2024281"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Every time i join a server i am only connected for 5 seconds, this is happening for every server and after multiple game restarts.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Could you post your NS2 log file please as per instructions below: Press windows key + R, fill in "%appdata%\Natural Selection 2", hit enter. Find the <b>log.txt</b> file. You can either copy paste the contents to the forums or post the contents into a website such as <a href="http://www.pastebin.com" target="_blank">http://www.pastebin.com</a> and post the link here on the forums.
Also, Ironhorse (Playtester) is working on tracking down connection issues here: <a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/index.php?showtopic=124418" target="_blank">http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/in...howtopic=124418</a>
There is small bug that is not fixed yet (and that might be fast to fix) if you click Play > Start server and scroll with mouse scroll server options disappear you just need to scroll up to get them back but it's strange when you are on a dual screen and you want to scroll a webpage and when back to the game and options disappeard :)
<!--quoteo(post=2023873:date=Nov 15 2012, 08:36 AM:name=godrifle)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (godrifle @ Nov 15 2012, 08:36 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2023873"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I think we've been all pretty patient in waiting for a solution for the fast onos egg. Anything. Even something inelegant, like 120res for an onos egg would do.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I believe people should start looking at the game from two angles of balance. 1) in a 16 player server or lesser ---> onos do come fairly fast
2)while in larger servers 20p or 24p actually marines have a very distinct advantage as aliens mid-tier lifeforms are actually very weak against 2 marines or more.
3)also while marines can increase or decrease immediately the number of spawn points. aliens are effectively stuck with 1 hive for a long time, most of the time in pub games in 24p servers, aliens lose the game in the first 3mins by being out spawned.
4) in 20 or 24 player games - the slow resource n large marine groups make lerks and fades less useful, while it actually gives more time for marines to tier up their weapon/armour upgrades.
5) lastly there should be a -matchmode with specific game mechanics for clan wars.
all in all, marines actually have a much easier time playing than aliens. a) aliens do not have mobile healing points b) aliens do not tier without second hives (marines can go lvl3 weap/armr/sg/gl/flame/arcs/phase gate/sentries) c) aliens have little or no structure support (hydras kill so slowly compared to sentries/whips are bugged/support structures dont do much/are costly to build/marines can cap any extractor quickly/aliens cap extractors slowly and restricted - need cyst, long build time without gorge, largely defenceless/hives heal so ever slowly) d) parasite is largely useless now since it 1) gives your direction away before moving in 2) removed by armory which is cheap to build and almost in everywhere in ns2 ---> if u played ns1 you know each game only has 1 or at most 2 armories e) in large servers if 4 marines camp outside the entrance(s) of an alien hive, it's almost impossible to take them out
MY ADVICE TO MARINES who keep dying... turn up the volume, i don't even have a earphones OR loud speakers (i use a NON gaming laptop) and i can hear skulks coming from a mile away. FYI: im not even a good shooter, but i can easily clock my KD ratio at 2~2.5 with marines consistently for the first 7mins of the game
<!--quoteo(post=2024292:date=Nov 15 2012, 09:15 AM:name=ben1099)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ben1099 @ Nov 15 2012, 09:15 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2024292"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I believe people should start looking at the game from two angles of balance. 1) in a 16 player server or lesser ---> onos do come fairly fast
2)while in larger servers 20p or 24p actually marines have a very distinct advantage as aliens mid-tier lifeforms are actually very weak against 2 marines or more.
3)also while marines can increase or decrease immediately the number of spawn points. aliens are effectively stuck with 1 hive for a long time, most of the time in pub games in 24p servers, aliens lose the game in the first 3mins by being out spawned.
4) in 20 or 24 player games - the slow resource n large marine groups make lerks and fades less useful, while it actually gives more time for marines to tier up their weapon/armour upgrades.
5) lastly there should be a -matchmode with specific game mechanics for clan wars.
all in all, marines actually have a much easier time playing than aliens. a) aliens do not have mobile healing points b) aliens do not tier without second hives (marines can go lvl3 weap/armr/sg/gl/flame/arcs/phase gate/sentries) c) aliens have little or no structure support (hydras kill so slowly compared to sentries/whips are bugged/support structures dont do much/are costly to build/marines can cap any extractor quickly/aliens cap extractors slowly and restricted - need cyst, long build time without gorge, largely defenceless/hives heal so ever slowly) d) parasite is largely useless now since it 1) gives your direction away before moving in 2) removed by armory which is cheap to build and almost in everywhere in ns2 ---> if u played ns1 you know each game only has 1 or at most 2 armories e) in large servers if 4 marines camp outside the entrance(s) of an alien hive, it's almost impossible to take them out
MY ADVICE TO MARINES who keep dying... turn up the volume, i don't even have a earphones OR loud speakers (i use a NON gaming laptop) and i can hear skulks coming from a mile away. FYI: im not even a good shooter, but i can easily clock my KD ratio at 2~2.5 with marines consistently for the first 7mins of the game<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Just stop playing in 20+ servers. I stick to 16 player servers; they're small enough to manage teamwork effectively, and the game seems much more balanced.
Anyone else feel like Aliens seem to be winning much more often since the patch? I feel like every match goes the same: marines fail to win in the first 10 minutes and thus aliens win. Seriously, I only saw Marines win two games today and both were won by an early rush. Most games felt like fairly even exchanges until Onos hit the field. Saw some awesome Lerk play today though.
That being said, I actually like the changes for this patch. Made the regenerating sneaky alien vibe really come to the fore, just may be that Marines may need some love now.
I played quite a few rounds tonight. At first I thought aliens were OP, but then myself and another good player started joining the same team, what ever team we joined won. Marines just need teamwork... As always. Where as aliens just need to harass early on. Hence aliens often win due to lack of teamwork anywhere..
I'm not sure if Vortex is supposed to be like this but if you try to cast it and don't hit anything (marine, structure) then the vortex doesn't appear.
puzlThe Old FirmJoin Date: 2003-02-26Member: 14029Retired Developer, NS1 Playtester, Forum Moderators, Constellation
edited November 2012
Seems like a decent patch, but the Crag changes are questionable, at best.
The solution in NS1 to make DC much more effective AND balanced was to make the DC generate a percentage of HP per second, and not stack.
An alien player could be under the combined effects of passive regen + regen upgrade + dc heal + hive heal + gorge heal but could never receive any of those abilities more than once per tick.
Many area effect abilities already don't stack ( spore, umbra, healing spray etc ), so I don't see any issue with doing this.
I agree the healing per Crag might be a bit too much (10 + 5%, up to 60) compared to NS1 (10 + 3%). They only stack up to 3 times though, and a single Crag can only heal up to 3 things around it.
Vortex was changed to only affect a single target and the energy cost was decreased.
Give it a few days before whining your pants off. I'm glad that UWE is attempting to make alot of alien stuff more attractive to use, whether it is balanced or not right now.
<!--quoteo(post=2024348:date=Nov 15 2012, 10:04 AM:name=puzl)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (puzl @ Nov 15 2012, 10:04 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2024348"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Seems like a decent patch, but the Crag changes are questionable, at best.
The solution in NS1 to make DC much more effective AND balanced was to make the DC generate a percentage of HP per second, and not stack.
An alien player could be under the combined effects of passive regen + regen upgrade + dc heal + hive heal + gorge heal but could never receive any of those abilities more than once per tick.
Many area effect abilities already don't stack ( spore, umbra, healing spray etc ), so I don't see any issue with doing this.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
DC regen didn't stack with innate regen in NS1, you noob! I tried to get you guys to change that, but you were all '###### you, Toothy, I hate you'.
<!--quoteo(post=2024362:date=Nov 15 2012, 05:17 AM:name=Agiel)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Agiel @ Nov 15 2012, 05:17 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2024362"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->... and a single Crag can only heal up to 3 things around it.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
pretty sure the code removed the entity heal limit.
this isn't in 229 ...
<!--c1--><div class='codetop'>CODE</div><div class='codemain'><!--ec1--> // acquire up to kMaxTargets healable targets inside range, players first ( TODO: use triggers) . . . if entsHealed >= Crag.kMaxTargets then break end<!--c2--></div><!--ec2-->
Comments
<a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/news/2012/11/build_229_is_now_live_on_steam" target="_blank">http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/news/2012...w_live_on_steam</a>
I played 10-ish games today, with Aliens coming out on top every time. I don't know if it was just the server I was on or what, but when I played Aliens we STEAMROLLED... when I played Marines i didn't seem to have any problem getting kills, but we were almost completely unable to expand. I'm not sure if that was a result of the new Regen buffs, or because of unorganized pub play, but the marines were getting stomped bad.
I played 10-ish games today, with Aliens coming out on top every time. I don't know if it was just the server I was on or what, but when I played Aliens we STEAMROLLED... when I played Marines i didn't seem to have any problem getting kills, but we were almost completely unable to expand. I'm not sure if that was a result of the new Regen buffs, or because of unorganized pub play, but the marines were getting stomped bad.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I too did some pub stomping as aliens. It wasn't so much the regen buff but newish marines completely unable to deal with cloaking. We went cloaking first then regen and it was just insane. Granted we did the same thing last night pre-patch and still won, but now its so much easier.
The fact that you think this is the games first patch since release has not changed the level of confidence I have in your opinion, since it was always zero.
It increased my confidence, in case you were reading it wrong :pp
I set it as my start page (because I like to read changelogs) and I'm always interested which companies improve on their games.
*Looking forward to abusing crags behind whips<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
So then u fix the bug?... sounds like nothing new.
I dont get the hoopla over the crag change..
Seriously, you kill the shade in a cloaked room first typically so you can see everything.. you kill the shift to prevent the oncoming defensive aliens from their energy buff.... and you finally now have to kill the crag first before shooting the structure.
?.. i dont get the hate for this change.
And lol @ the conspiracy theories ... remember that one time everyone freaked out when the changelog wasn't posted until a day later? lol...yeahhh..:shakes head:
Thank you.
--Cory
Thank you.
--Cory<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<img src="http://i0.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/000/000/681/what-you-did-there-i-see-it.thumbnail.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
<!--quoteo(post=2024281:date=Nov 15 2012, 08:51 AM:name=kais_fashion)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (kais_fashion @ Nov 15 2012, 08:51 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2024281"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Every time i join a server i am only connected for 5 seconds, this is happening for every server and after multiple game restarts.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Could you post your NS2 log file please as per instructions below:
Press windows key + R, fill in "%appdata%\Natural Selection 2", hit enter.
Find the <b>log.txt</b> file. You can either copy paste the contents to the forums or post the contents into a website such as <a href="http://www.pastebin.com" target="_blank">http://www.pastebin.com</a> and post the link here on the forums.
Also, Ironhorse (Playtester) is working on tracking down connection issues here: <a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/index.php?showtopic=124418" target="_blank">http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/in...howtopic=124418</a>
I believe people should start looking at the game from two angles of balance.
1) in a 16 player server or lesser ---> onos do come fairly fast
2)while in larger servers 20p or 24p actually marines have a very distinct advantage as aliens mid-tier lifeforms are actually very weak against 2 marines or more.
3)also while marines can increase or decrease immediately the number of spawn points. aliens are effectively stuck with 1 hive for a long time, most of the time in pub games in 24p servers, aliens lose the game in the first 3mins by being out spawned.
4) in 20 or 24 player games - the slow resource n large marine groups make lerks and fades less useful, while it actually gives more time for marines to tier up their weapon/armour upgrades.
5) lastly there should be a -matchmode with specific game mechanics for clan wars.
all in all, marines actually have a much easier time playing than aliens.
a) aliens do not have mobile healing points
b) aliens do not tier without second hives (marines can go lvl3 weap/armr/sg/gl/flame/arcs/phase gate/sentries)
c) aliens have little or no structure support (hydras kill so slowly compared to sentries/whips are bugged/support structures dont do much/are costly to build/marines can cap any extractor quickly/aliens cap extractors slowly and restricted - need cyst, long build time without gorge, largely defenceless/hives heal so ever slowly)
d) parasite is largely useless now since it 1) gives your direction away before moving in 2) removed by armory which is cheap to build and almost in everywhere in ns2 ---> if u played ns1 you know each game only has 1 or at most 2 armories
e) in large servers if 4 marines camp outside the entrance(s) of an alien hive, it's almost impossible to take them out
MY ADVICE TO MARINES who keep dying... turn up the volume, i don't even have a earphones OR loud speakers (i use a NON gaming laptop) and i can hear skulks coming from a mile away. FYI: im not even a good shooter, but i can easily clock my KD ratio at 2~2.5 with marines consistently for the first 7mins of the game
1) in a 16 player server or lesser ---> onos do come fairly fast
2)while in larger servers 20p or 24p actually marines have a very distinct advantage as aliens mid-tier lifeforms are actually very weak against 2 marines or more.
3)also while marines can increase or decrease immediately the number of spawn points. aliens are effectively stuck with 1 hive for a long time, most of the time in pub games in 24p servers, aliens lose the game in the first 3mins by being out spawned.
4) in 20 or 24 player games - the slow resource n large marine groups make lerks and fades less useful, while it actually gives more time for marines to tier up their weapon/armour upgrades.
5) lastly there should be a -matchmode with specific game mechanics for clan wars.
all in all, marines actually have a much easier time playing than aliens.
a) aliens do not have mobile healing points
b) aliens do not tier without second hives (marines can go lvl3 weap/armr/sg/gl/flame/arcs/phase gate/sentries)
c) aliens have little or no structure support (hydras kill so slowly compared to sentries/whips are bugged/support structures dont do much/are costly to build/marines can cap any extractor quickly/aliens cap extractors slowly and restricted - need cyst, long build time without gorge, largely defenceless/hives heal so ever slowly)
d) parasite is largely useless now since it 1) gives your direction away before moving in 2) removed by armory which is cheap to build and almost in everywhere in ns2 ---> if u played ns1 you know each game only has 1 or at most 2 armories
e) in large servers if 4 marines camp outside the entrance(s) of an alien hive, it's almost impossible to take them out
MY ADVICE TO MARINES who keep dying... turn up the volume, i don't even have a earphones OR loud speakers (i use a NON gaming laptop) and i can hear skulks coming from a mile away. FYI: im not even a good shooter, but i can easily clock my KD ratio at 2~2.5 with marines consistently for the first 7mins of the game<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Just stop playing in 20+ servers. I stick to 16 player servers; they're small enough to manage teamwork effectively, and the game seems much more balanced.
That being said, I actually like the changes for this patch. Made the regenerating sneaky alien vibe really come to the fore, just may be that Marines may need some love now.
Maybe crag-heal shoudn't stack. Makes balancing much easier
For some reason growing shifts are really hard to axe?
You get pretty strong heals mid blink and I've found marines unable to break through the armour portion of my HP, making regen twice as effective.
The solution in NS1 to make DC much more effective AND balanced was to make the DC generate a percentage of HP per second, and not stack.
An alien player could be under the combined effects of passive regen + regen upgrade + dc heal + hive heal + gorge heal but could never receive any of those abilities more than once per tick.
Many area effect abilities already don't stack ( spore, umbra, healing spray etc ), so I don't see any issue with doing this.
Vortex was changed to only affect a single target and the energy cost was decreased.
But 30 + 9% is just way too much health to get back IMO.
The solution in NS1 to make DC much more effective AND balanced was to make the DC generate a percentage of HP per second, and not stack.
An alien player could be under the combined effects of passive regen + regen upgrade + dc heal + hive heal + gorge heal but could never receive any of those abilities more than once per tick.
Many area effect abilities already don't stack ( spore, umbra, healing spray etc ), so I don't see any issue with doing this.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
DC regen didn't stack with innate regen in NS1, you noob! I tried to get you guys to change that, but you were all '###### you, Toothy, I hate you'.
pretty sure the code removed the entity heal limit.
this isn't in 229 ...
<!--c1--><div class='codetop'>CODE</div><div class='codemain'><!--ec1--> // acquire up to kMaxTargets healable targets inside range, players first ( TODO: use triggers)
.
.
.
if entsHealed >= Crag.kMaxTargets then
break
end<!--c2--></div><!--ec2-->