<!--quoteo(post=2023953:date=Nov 14 2012, 05:35 PM:name=FuTuRe1)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (FuTuRe1 @ Nov 14 2012, 05:35 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2023953"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->This build is nonsense!
Skulk 1 hp, 1,5sec+2sec full. Onos full in 5/6 secs 3 crags + hive vs 2 ARCS, always 100% hp 1 crag can keep up cyst (if we add the problem of cyst spawn.... gg) +6000 damage with axe for kill one resource tower keep up by crag More crashes playing/spectating Bug with marine model when he die or crash<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This guy gets it.
Your right, i should have played the beta. I will next time to prevent this game risking death.
To the guy saying there were no changes to camo. Being completely invisible, instead of partially invisible, is a MASSIVE change, cloaking really quickly, is a slight buff.
To the guy who said that the comms he sees in pubs scan, i see lots of comms that require 60 seconds of cajoling to place an rt, how can people quikcly scan, when they are so green they dont know the names of all the map locations yet.
To anyone that thinks the changes presented in the patch arent a real problem, id be interested if you still think so, after a couple of weeks of playing, once pub players work out how to exploit this patch.
<!--quoteo(post=2023962:date=Nov 14 2012, 05:43 PM:name=MaximumSquid)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (MaximumSquid @ Nov 14 2012, 05:43 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2023962"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Why aren't the balance changes listed in the patch notes?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I think that this is far and away the changes that people want to see.
Sure there might be some overreactions, but the changes are going to leak out anyway. Why not control the message, and provide the players with the information from the start?
<!--quoteo(post=2023953:date=Nov 14 2012, 08:35 PM:name=FuTuRe1)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (FuTuRe1 @ Nov 14 2012, 08:35 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2023953"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->This build is nonsense!
Skulk 1 hp, 1,5sec+2sec full. Onos full in 5/6 secs 3 crags + hive vs 2 ARCS, always 100% hp 1 crag can keep up cyst (if we add the problem of cyst spawn.... gg) +6000 damage with axe for kill one resource tower keep up by crag More crashes playing/spectating Bug with marine model when he die or crash<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
What kind of a noob would sit there axing an RT to 6k dmg while a crag is sitting there healing it?? I always kill the crag first .. they die quickly.
Also am I to understand the devs did not release a complete list of changes associated with the recent patch?? As a person who writes some simple programs for work - if I <i>ever </i>tried to release an update without <i>detailed </i>release notes / changes, I would be fired in a heartbeat. I mean think about it - you spend countless hours making modifications - so this stuff is obviously fresh in your mind .. so how long does it take to open notepad and jot down notes about what you did? 5 minutes?
With that said I hope (I guess I have to hope since nobody seems to know) this patch has some performance improvements so my crappy pc can handle the game better. Will report back after a few games.
<!--quoteo(post=2023975:date=Nov 14 2012, 09:55 PM:name=joederp)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (joederp @ Nov 14 2012, 09:55 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2023975"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->What kind of a noob would sit there axing an RT to 6k dmg while a crag is sitting there healing it?? I always kill the crag first .. they die quickly.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I guess no one is so stupid for this, but it's an example. I anticipate 30% marine wins and 70% aliens wins.
If comms take 60 seconds to put down the first rt (they may just be waiting to see if the aliens are rushing natural 'rine node points) because they are so new, why are you so bothered about them not scanning? You say scanning costs 3 res, you have no rt, I think you are over analysing your problem ... start from the start, teach them how to put down an rt (or when and where more likely), then you can work on cajoling them into learning about the obs :)
<!--quoteo(post=2023953:date=Nov 14 2012, 08:35 PM:name=FuTuRe1)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (FuTuRe1 @ Nov 14 2012, 08:35 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2023953"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->This build is nonsense!
Skulk 1 hp, 1,5sec+2sec full. Onos full in 5/6 secs<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Crags heal 10 + 5% of your max HP every 2 seconds, capped at 60hp. Yes, they do heal skulks quickly (although to be 1-2 seconds you gotta have a bunch of crags), but there's no way an onos is going full in 5-6 seconds unless you've got like 10 crags in one spot.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->3 crags + hive vs 2 ARCS, always 100% hp<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> I just tested this, simply put you're wrong. 1 arc was able to kill off the crags one by one and then the hive. Were you perhaps having the arcs shooting the hive first and ignoring the crags? The other possibility is the khamm was turning on heal wave, which multiples the heal by 2.5. If so, he would be able to out heal the arcs, but to do so he's also spending a lot of tres.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->1 crag can keep up cyst (if we add the problem of cyst spawn.... gg)<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> True, crags can stop disconnected cysts from dying in their radius. Not sure how big of a problem this is. Kill the crag, problem solved.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->+6000 damage with axe for kill one resource tower keep up by crag<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Why would you attack the rt instead of knifing down the crag first and then the rt? Makes your life a whole lot easier. Also, there must have been multiple crags around because I tested this and it takes only a little over 3000 damage with 1 crag healing.
Newsflash: Crags and regen are actually effective now!
Also, because I can't remember if this way always the case: Crags cannot heal themselves. A lone crag damaged will not heal itself. Intentional?
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->If comms take 60 seconds to put down the first rt (they may just be waiting to see if the aliens are rushing natural 'rine node points) because they are so new, why are you so bothered about them not scanning?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
because if they dont scan, marine will be easily eaten by skulks...
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->You say scanning costs 3 res, you have no rt, I think you are over analysing your problem ...<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yes, scanning will cost 3 tres, my point is that needing to scan for every single res node, and every push on a hive, scanning whilst marine build every room up, is a MASSIVE res sink for marines. The alternative is to have those marines die.
So, you can either scan and loose ha pile of res over the course of a game, or not scan and loose that rt/room/hive push. i call that a loose loose situation.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->start from the start, teach them how to put down an rt (or when and where more likely), then you can work on cajoling them into learning about the obs :)<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yeah, i know i can teach the noobs to play, i do it every day. Even with the best of help, a new commander is going to have serious difficulties responding to a request for a scan in time for the scan to make any difference.
"scan in east junction please" comm thinking now where is east junction, i better press C, and its going to be on the east, theres the east side of the map, ahhh theres east junction, let me scroll over there, and now i can press to assist, and click to place a scan, and now i can scan..... o wait everyones allready dead.
^this 100 times a round, on a larger server, a really new comm wont have time or res to do anything else but attempt to get to people in time to scan.
Oh well... " Fixed issue where requesting the server list could overflow or crash some modems. "
Nope.
<b><u>Not fixed.</u></b> Browsing servers still shuts down my internet connection for every program exept NS2.
To me the "fix" looks very much like the implementation of a "workaround", which is done by lowering the max pings/minute in the server browser. (Because the serverlist builds up reaaally slowly now, just like after a manual decrease of the max pings/minute setting in steam.)
After i successfully joined a server and played a game, refresh the server list and press join for another server - i STILL get the "couldnt establish connection ....." error.
I d wish there is something wrong with my Netgear RP614v4 Router, but every other online game (about 30) works just fine.
Aside from the connection problems, it seems that my overall FPS decreased. I will test it in detail. All i can say for now is: Connectivity AND Performance issues........... are FUN...... not.
The new Regen is incredible. Loving it, though I think this build is going to be an alien slaughterfest with all the buffs and Onos eggs still being around. If you're looking for a time to nerf that with the support of the community, Build 230 is it :P
I tried crag healing in explore. using an axe W0 harvester: 2750dmg harverster + crag: 3800dmg harvester with 2 crags: 7900dmg
single crag is easy to kill
Hive + 2 crags: is mortal, but will take a really long time. couple of minutes I assume. killing the crags and than the hive is much more effective and doable.
And yea, unlimited infestation with a severed cyst chain + 1 crag.
about arcs: 2 arcs will kill a hive with 3 crags. takes 10 volleys the crags must be placed with distance to the hive though due to splash damage. that's alot of tres into scans =)
ARC wiki: ARCs have 500 more HP (armor) when in mobile form. they have a minimum range because they can damage themself (friendly fire) one scan = one shot scan again right after teh shot and it will shoot again
<!--quoteo(post=2023975:date=Nov 14 2012, 03:55 PM:name=joederp)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (joederp @ Nov 14 2012, 03:55 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2023975"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->What kind of a noob would sit there axing an RT to 6k dmg while a crag is sitting there healing it?? I always kill the crag first .. they die quickly.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
QFT
I really hope that the games won by aliens increase from this patch.
I am so tired of going "Random" every game and always ending up in aliens while marines have 2 more than aliens always and 4-5 people sitting in "Join Marines" spot.
Since I refuse to go anything but random, maybe ill get marines for once by going to random. LoL
<!--quoteo(post=2023975:date=Nov 15 2012, 12:55 PM:name=joederp)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (joederp @ Nov 15 2012, 12:55 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2023975"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->What kind of a noob would sit there axing an RT to 6k dmg while a crag is sitting there healing it?? I always kill the crag first .. they die quickly.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
It's really only a matter of time till someone figures out exact spots where you can crag heal through walls. silly crag change is silly
I don't care much about regen as an Alien, i think crags are now fine as they are since in the last build they were just useless and i'd just run straight past them and back to the hive to heal faster.
I care more about survivability, no amount of regen will save you if you die in a couple of blasts from a shotgun, hopefully in the next build there will be some big buffs for the fade.
Also trying to kill a marine who has armor 2-3 as a fade just takes a little too long, making the fade even more redundant, needs changing.
Good news is, fade blink seems to be working again. No delays after blink anymore. Now if we could just get vertical shadowstep back...
But yeah, I don't enjoy seeing the (significant, actually) balance changes through a community lua comparison. It might be nice to actually have it straight from the source.
Also... anyone know about Vortex changes? There were some lua things related to vortex. What changed and how does it work now?
<!--quoteo(post=2024098:date=Nov 15 2012, 05:03 AM:name=Simini)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Simini @ Nov 15 2012, 05:03 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2024098"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Also trying to kill a marine who has armor 2-3 as a fade just takes a little too long, making the fade even more redundant, needs changing.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> I played a round with focus on a combat server....that was fun-flipping-tastic
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->anyone know about Vortex changes?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
If it's the same as in the beta, I think Vortex won't activate unless there is a structure or player in the attack radius of the vortex cloud; so you couldn't spam it as a defensive shield. This may not have made it into 229 official, though.
regen is probably too good, but conceptually it is great for gameplay to be able to hide behind cover briefly and regenerate and join a fight. I'd probably keep regeneration rate the same and raise the "out of combat" time, maybe play around with values between 2-4 values for each build? it's in a pretty amazing spot right now and I wouldn't want to nerf it into oblivion again. I think it's awesome that Skulks can actually move and outplay marines in direct engagements instead of relying on lapses of attention.
ideally it should be in a state where it's really tough to decide between carapace / regeneration
<!--quoteo(post=2023998:date=Nov 14 2012, 06:17 PM:name=FuTuRe1)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (FuTuRe1 @ Nov 14 2012, 06:17 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2023998"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--><b>Stop balance for pubs!</b><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Pubs are and will be the life of this game. More players tend to go marine than aliens cause they are used to shooting things. Maybe this build in an incentive for more players to go aliens and learn how to use them.
Comments
Skulk 1 hp, 1,5sec+2sec full. Onos full in 5/6 secs
3 crags + hive vs 2 ARCS, always 100% hp
1 crag can keep up cyst (if we add the problem of cyst spawn.... gg)
+6000 damage with axe for kill one resource tower keep up by crag
More crashes playing/spectating
Bug with marine model when he die or crash<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This guy gets it.
Your right, i should have played the beta. I will next time to prevent this game risking death.
To the guy saying there were no changes to camo. Being completely invisible, instead of partially invisible, is a MASSIVE change, cloaking really quickly, is a slight buff.
To the guy who said that the comms he sees in pubs scan, i see lots of comms that require 60 seconds of cajoling to place an rt, how can people quikcly scan, when they are so green they dont know the names of all the map locations yet.
To anyone that thinks the changes presented in the patch arent a real problem, id be interested if you still think so, after a couple of weeks of playing, once pub players work out how to exploit this patch.
shell ######. /endthread
aww i didn't think the scientific term for a man having an ###### and the result being some number signs...
"Fixed bug causing weapons to "teleport" back to where they were last equipped when a Marine dies."
Damn... it was so handy getting my welder replaced for free every time i died.
I think that this is far and away the changes that people want to see.
Sure there might be some overreactions, but the changes are going to leak out anyway. Why not control the message, and provide the players with the information from the start?
Skulk 1 hp, 1,5sec+2sec full. Onos full in 5/6 secs
3 crags + hive vs 2 ARCS, always 100% hp
1 crag can keep up cyst (if we add the problem of cyst spawn.... gg)
+6000 damage with axe for kill one resource tower keep up by crag
More crashes playing/spectating
Bug with marine model when he die or crash<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
What kind of a noob would sit there axing an RT to 6k dmg while a crag is sitting there healing it?? I always kill the crag first .. they die quickly.
Also am I to understand the devs did not release a complete list of changes associated with the recent patch?? As a person who writes some simple programs for work - if I <i>ever </i>tried to release an update without <i>detailed </i>release notes / changes, I would be fired in a heartbeat. I mean think about it - you spend countless hours making modifications - so this stuff is obviously fresh in your mind .. so how long does it take to open notepad and jot down notes about what you did? 5 minutes?
With that said I hope (I guess I have to hope since nobody seems to know) this patch has some performance improvements so my crappy pc can handle the game better. Will report back after a few games.
I guess no one is so stupid for this, but it's an example. I anticipate 30% marine wins and 70% aliens wins.
<b>Stop balance for pubs!</b>
Skulk 1 hp, 1,5sec+2sec full. Onos full in 5/6 secs<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Crags heal 10 + 5% of your max HP every 2 seconds, capped at 60hp. Yes, they do heal skulks quickly (although to be 1-2 seconds you gotta have a bunch of crags), but there's no way an onos is going full in 5-6 seconds unless you've got like 10 crags in one spot.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->3 crags + hive vs 2 ARCS, always 100% hp<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I just tested this, simply put you're wrong. 1 arc was able to kill off the crags one by one and then the hive. Were you perhaps having the arcs shooting the hive first and ignoring the crags? The other possibility is the khamm was turning on heal wave, which multiples the heal by 2.5. If so, he would be able to out heal the arcs, but to do so he's also spending a lot of tres.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->1 crag can keep up cyst (if we add the problem of cyst spawn.... gg)<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
True, crags can stop disconnected cysts from dying in their radius. Not sure how big of a problem this is. Kill the crag, problem solved.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->+6000 damage with axe for kill one resource tower keep up by crag<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Why would you attack the rt instead of knifing down the crag first and then the rt? Makes your life a whole lot easier. Also, there must have been multiple crags around because I tested this and it takes only a little over 3000 damage with 1 crag healing.
Newsflash: Crags and regen are actually effective now!
Also, because I can't remember if this way always the case: Crags cannot heal themselves. A lone crag damaged will not heal itself. Intentional?
because if they dont scan, marine will be easily eaten by skulks...
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->You say scanning costs 3 res, you have no rt, I think you are over analysing your problem ...<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yes, scanning will cost 3 tres, my point is that needing to scan for every single res node, and every push on a hive, scanning whilst marine build every room up, is a MASSIVE res sink for marines. The alternative is to have those marines die.
So, you can either scan and loose ha pile of res over the course of a game, or not scan and loose that rt/room/hive push. i call that a loose loose situation.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->start from the start, teach them how to put down an rt (or when and where more likely), then you can work on cajoling them into learning about the obs :)<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yeah, i know i can teach the noobs to play, i do it every day. Even with the best of help, a new commander is going to have serious difficulties responding to a request for a scan in time for the scan to make any difference.
"scan in east junction please" comm thinking now where is east junction, i better press C, and its going to be on the east, theres the east side of the map, ahhh theres east junction, let me scroll over there, and now i can press to assist, and click to place a scan, and now i can scan..... o wait everyones allready dead.
^this 100 times a round, on a larger server, a really new comm wont have time or res to do anything else but attempt to get to people in time to scan.
"
Fixed issue where requesting the server list could overflow or crash some modems. "
Nope.
<b><u>Not fixed.</u></b> Browsing servers still shuts down my internet connection for every program exept NS2.
To me the "fix" looks very much like the implementation of a "workaround", which is done by lowering the max pings/minute in the server browser. (Because the serverlist builds up reaaally slowly now, just like after a manual decrease of the max pings/minute setting in steam.)
After i successfully joined a server and played a game, refresh the server list and press join for another server - i STILL get the "couldnt establish connection ....." error.
I d wish there is something wrong with my Netgear RP614v4 Router, but every other online game (about 30) works just fine.
Aside from the connection problems, it seems that my overall FPS decreased. I will test it in detail. All i can say for now is: Connectivity AND Performance issues........... are FUN...... not.
using an axe W0
harvester: 2750dmg
harverster + crag: 3800dmg
harvester with 2 crags: 7900dmg
single crag is easy to kill
Hive + 2 crags: is mortal, but will take a really long time. couple of minutes I assume.
killing the crags and than the hive is much more effective and doable.
And yea,
unlimited infestation with a severed cyst chain + 1 crag.
about arcs:
2 arcs will kill a hive with 3 crags. takes 10 volleys
the crags must be placed with distance to the hive though due to splash damage.
that's alot of tres into scans =)
ARC wiki:
ARCs have 500 more HP (armor) when in mobile form.
they have a minimum range
because they can damage themself (friendly fire)
one scan = one shot
scan again right after teh shot and it will shoot again
one question: 500 armor = 1000 effective HP ?
QFT
I really hope that the games won by aliens increase from this patch.
I am so tired of going "Random" every game and always ending up in aliens while marines have 2 more than aliens always and 4-5 people sitting in "Join Marines" spot.
Since I refuse to go anything but random, maybe ill get marines for once by going to random. LoL
It's really only a matter of time till someone figures out exact spots where you can crag heal through walls. silly crag change is silly
*Looking forward to abusing crags behind whips
I care more about survivability, no amount of regen will save you if you die in a couple of blasts from a shotgun, hopefully in the next build there will be some big buffs for the fade.
Also trying to kill a marine who has armor 2-3 as a fade just takes a little too long, making the fade even more redundant, needs changing.
But yeah, I don't enjoy seeing the (significant, actually) balance changes through a community lua comparison. It might be nice to actually have it straight from the source.
Also... anyone know about Vortex changes? There were some lua things related to vortex. What changed and how does it work now?
I played a round with focus on a combat server....that was fun-flipping-tastic
If it's the same as in the beta, I think Vortex won't activate unless there is a structure or player in the attack radius of the vortex cloud; so you couldn't spam it as a defensive shield. This may not have made it into 229 official, though.
I'd probably keep regeneration rate the same and raise the "out of combat" time, maybe play around with values between 2-4 values for each build? it's in a pretty amazing spot right now and I wouldn't want to nerf it into oblivion again. I think it's awesome that Skulks can actually move and outplay marines in direct engagements instead of relying on lapses of attention.
ideally it should be in a state where it's really tough to decide between carapace / regeneration
Pubs are and will be the life of this game. More players tend to go marine than aliens cause they are used to shooting things. Maybe this build in an incentive for more players to go aliens and learn how to use them.