<!--quoteo(post=2006007:date=Nov 2 2012, 01:36 AM:name=StreifenHirnchen)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (StreifenHirnchen @ Nov 2 2012, 01:36 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2006007"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->this is ns2... u cant change it u only can stop playin it if u dont like it. there is a huge amount of player that like ns2 in its current state.
and 2 be obvious, combat mode killed ns1. Ns2 is a teamplay based game, nobody needs those usless cs/tf2 rambos.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Uh did you even read my post ? I said I loved NS 2 and absolutely no where did I say we need cs/tf2 rambos.
I am a little agree about that aliens a bit lesser fun to play. I want to say one thing. There is no motivation to play skulk and kill marines, because there are no res per kill bonus in this game. For example if i lost fade - my game become boring to get new 50 resources, i just need to WAIT. I have no motivation to kill marines, for faster getting resources. And yes, i agree, fade feels wery weak. LMG players with 2-3 damage feel very dangerous.
<!--quoteo(post=2006058:date=Nov 2 2012, 02:21 AM:name=terrorizer)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (terrorizer @ Nov 2 2012, 02:21 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2006058"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I am a little agree about that aliens a bit lesser fun to play. I want to say one thing. There is no motivation to play skulk and kill marines, because there are no res per kill bonus in this game. For example if i lost fade - my game become boring to get new 50 resources, i just need to WAIT. I have no motivation to kill marines, for faster getting resources. And yes, i agree, fade feels wery weak. LMG players with 2-3 damage feel very dangerous.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yeah there is a lot of waiting as Aliens, whether its traversing the map, spawning, evolving, or waiting after you lose fade/onos.
If there is anything I have seen since release it is the varying number of opinions from new players. Some love aliens, some find them boring, some find them frustrating, some really love marines.
I think aliens are awesome. It gets more fun the more you play with them. Its realy cool to pwn a squad of 4 marines as just one skulk, hopping from wall to wall. Gorge is also realy cool; try ninja-gorging nanogrid down with bileboms from the shafts. The noobs don't know what hit 'm!
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->If you didn't master the ###### out of alien vs predator games your gonna have to learn a lot about how to play as a bitey/scratchy/stompy group of ###### vs guns.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I absolutely love being alien in AvP, but I hate aliens in NS. AvP aliens are much more deadly, sneaky, easier to control and well done overall. As a skulk, I feel like I'm some sort of helpless crawling worm.
I pretty much only play aliens these days... I played aliens all through 223... Times were hard, so hard... Then they gave us lolbite-of-kill-everyone'ness, stop complaining, learn to skulk.
-Word. xD
-PS. If you wanna complain about aliens, complain that Fades and Lerks have poor hp. I honestly find a cele/cara/leap skulk better in most situations than a fade these days, but I keep practicing fade regardless..
<!--quoteo(post=2006200:date=Nov 2 2012, 11:14 AM:name=PsympleJester)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (PsympleJester @ Nov 2 2012, 11:14 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2006200"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->-PS. If you wanna complain about aliens, complain that Fades and Lerks have poor hp. I honestly find a cele/cara/leap skulk better in most situations than a fade these days, but I keep practicing fade regardless..<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Yeah I'm not seeing how a non-Cara Fade is viable whatsoever. Against L3 LMGs you have about two seconds of engagement time before you're missing most of your health. Then you get to go stand next to the hive doing nothing for a minute.
twilitebluebug stalkerJoin Date: 2003-02-04Member: 13116Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue
edited November 2012
<!--quoteo(post=2006229:date=Nov 2 2012, 10:42 PM:name=Temphage)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Temphage @ Nov 2 2012, 10:42 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2006229"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Yeah I'm not seeing how a non-Cara Fade is viable whatsoever. Against L3 LMGs you have about two seconds of engagement time before you're missing most of your health. Then you get to go stand next to the hive doing nothing for a minute.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Fade definitely needs more health. It only takes 20 pistol bullets (2 clips) to kill a Fade (with w0 vs no-cara, or w3 vs cara).
Here are a few other aspects of alien gameplay that I wish to be improved:
- Skulks feel helpless when alien team is losing (with 1 Hive), which is not very fun. Whereas it is much more common for Marines to fight til the end, and enjoy the process. Their weapons and equipment remain potent enough to kill all types of aliens, and are more likely to stage a come back from one Tech Point.
- Aliens are too difficult to learn and master IMO. This is not helped by the fact that aliens upon death, unlike marines, cannot salvage their "weapons" and "equipment", ie lifeforms.
I am getting a touch bored, but only because I feel that I have to play alien every game and explain what to do constantly otherwise they juts get stomped. I imagine some other vets are feeling that way too.
Terran/marines can turle zerg/aliens HAVE TO be active all over the map to get a good lead.
If your skuls are just ###### around and not keeping pressure on key points you are going to lose grip because the marines will turtle and rape you.
The metagame for the rookies has to be astablished. And its a lot harder to learn Alien combat mechanics. So this makes it that aliens are a bit harder to play.
agreeing with the above comments about fade health the only reason I can see why it was dropped in beta was because marines couldn't track as easily due to fps problems. Atm there is really no reason to go fade since the onos even with its limited abilities has more effect than it
<!--quoteo(post=2005606:date=Nov 2 2012, 02:00 AM:name=wiry)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (wiry @ Nov 2 2012, 02:00 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2005606"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I can see veteran players stacking marines to get some easy kills. Aliens are a bit tricky to get in to as that whole "Melee-FPS" thing is basically NS-exclusive. Skulks, without knowledge about how to play properly, walking up to marines in a single file, straight line one after another. Once you've learnt the life forms a bit, imo, aliens are much more fun.
Any one can point and click, but using movement and evasion to your advantage, making marines waste their ammo and landing perfect bites is something that will take a long time to master.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Another think that shouldn't help rookies, on alien you have to aim for the head/upper body to do more damage, as a marine you shoot anywhere on the alien and that's ok.
As alien is not so easy to play for rookies, it's even harder (especialy skulk as he is smaller) if you have to aim good to shorter the combat.
<!--quoteo(post=2006389:date=Nov 2 2012, 05:25 AM:name=Paul-Hewson)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Paul-Hewson @ Nov 2 2012, 05:25 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2006389"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Another think that shouldn't help rookies, on alien you have to aim for the head/upper body to do more damage, as a marine you shoot anywhere on the alien and that's ok.
As alien (especialy skulk as he is smaller) is not so easy to play for rookies, it's even harder if you have to aim good to shorter the combat.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--quoteo(post=2006389:date=Nov 2 2012, 09:25 AM:name=Paul-Hewson)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Paul-Hewson @ Nov 2 2012, 09:25 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2006389"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Another think that shouldn't help rookies, on alien you have to aim for the head/upper body to do more damage, as a marine you shoot anywhere on the alien and that's ok.
As alien (especialy skulk as he is smaller) is not so easy to play for rookies, it's even harder if you have to aim good to shorter the combat.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This isn't true. There is no difference in damage between biting a marine in his feet and biting him in the head. What you're seeing as different damage is when you miss a bite and deal glancing (reduced) damage instead. There is a full initial bitecone that does 75 damage per bite no matter where you bite the marine on this hitbox. The reduced damage (50 and 25) bites are when you miss with this initial cone, but are still close enough to any part of the marine hitbox to warrant reduced bite damage.
I love playing aliens. At the start of the match you get into position with your fast movement speed to parasite the first marine squads. After that you try to engage them from an ambush and/or possibly from several directions at an opportune position. Also note that going up walls and stuff really helps as it throws off the marines aim way more than if you stick to ground.
For playing aliens, thinking creatively seems to be the key. Heads-on your skulk is way worse than a single marine but if you manage a good ambush or mis-direction you are golden. With all the rookies playing now, I often find myself eating 3+ rine squads just by attacking in the right moment. Map-Control by using vents, your superior movement speed and parasites is paramount as alien.
Also i dont see the Fade being really underpowered. If you know what you are doing movement-wise, you can still wreak massive havoc. Though I have to agree that I remember the NS1 Fade being a bit more resilient to LMG marines.
i prefer playing aliens aswell, and get bored after a few hours of playing for the week of skulking for 10mins then using onos. every game is the same.
Aliens really do need a rework. especially the lerk.
<!--quoteo(post=2006411:date=Nov 2 2012, 11:39 PM:name=Blaxxun)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Blaxxun @ Nov 2 2012, 11:39 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2006411"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Also i dont see the Fade being really underpowered. If you know what you are doing movement-wise, you can still wreak massive havoc.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
No you can't, sure fighting one or two marines with out shotguns is easy. But lets be honest massive havoc does not include blinking in swiping once or twice and then retreating back to hive for 5mins.
I would love to see you 'wreak massive havoc' against 3 good shot marines with SG's.
<!--quoteo(post=2005816:date=Nov 2 2012, 05:11 AM:name=GORGEous)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (GORGEous @ Nov 2 2012, 05:11 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2005816"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->If you're "endlessly walking back and forth" then you're doing alien wrong. Drifters are practically maphacks. Between them, sound, and some intuition you should be able to position yourself where you need to be. If you can't, then focus on learning where you should be at what times.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> I have been playing NS for years. I'd say I pretty much know where to be. One place to be as an Onos (when we have only 1 Fade and a lerk) is where 3 weapon 3 marines are (you never know how many will join through the PG), let's say in flight control. While fighting, I realize there's a hive push in Data Core. I take down or chase away the 3 marines, but Data core is lost. Without any chance but a base rush by the Fade and skulks. So we are fighting in different places. One goal was to reduce player vs structures gameplay. Then give us the option to face other players fast enough.
EDIT: now you can say 'aw, marines are w3, you have only one Onos, you deserve to lose'. True, but again, this isn't about balance, it's about battles that are fun. And you know how epic hive teleport could be in terms of fun.
Skulk is the most fun thing in NS or NS2. At least until late game where you really can't make ground forward any more. You win some and you lose some fighting LMG marines, but if you feel completely useless in the early game as a skulk you're doing it wrong.
<!--quoteo(post=2006432:date=Nov 2 2012, 08:51 AM:name=countbasie)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (countbasie @ Nov 2 2012, 08:51 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2006432"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I have been playing NS for years. I'd say I pretty much know where to be. One place to be as an Onos (when we have only 1 Fade and a lerk) is where 3 weapon 3 marines are (you never know how many will join through the PG), let's say in flight control. While fighting, I realize there's a hive push in Data Core. I take down or chase away the 3 marines, but Data core is lost. Without any chance but a base rush by the Fade and skulks. So we are fighting in different places. One goal was to reduce player vs structures gameplay. Then give us the option to face other players fast enough.
EDIT: now you can say 'aw, marines are w3, you have only one Onos, you deserve to lose'. True, but again, this isn't about balance, it's about battles that are fun. And you know how epic hive teleport could be in terms of fun.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Arguably, you shouldn't have onos if you're talking about NS1. They're much more powerful in NS2.
I have some fun games as Aliens, but it's entirely dependent on Marines.
The skill curve for Aliens is like a brick wall, and it has a pretty low ceiling.
I've seen way too many games where these Call of Duty twitch heros all stack Marines and are running around with 36:2 KDRs only halfway through the match. Getting blasted with perfect shots from a shotgun while shadowstepping and blinking around thanks to the Fade's useless fragility, poking your nose out and getting killed in about half a second, none of this is fun whatsoever for the aliens. Especially since they spend about half their time in the spawn queue or an egg.
Also, the fact that leap no longer does any damage is total horse****. Jetpack marines have become far more powerful, simply because skulks lost one of their only effective attacks against them, and even Fades have a hard time because of how blink works and the swipe cooldown on it. Plus the fact that jetpacks have ungodly amounts of fuel and recharge in midair and in about six seconds doesn't help.
<!--quoteo(post=2006679:date=Nov 2 2012, 04:09 PM:name=Swiftspear)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Swiftspear @ Nov 2 2012, 04:09 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2006679"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Arguably, you shouldn't have onos if you're talking about NS1. They're much more powerful in NS2.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You mean Fade got mega nerfed whilst onos got a slight buff. (a lot more hp but no devour).
<!--quoteo(post=2006777:date=Nov 2 2012, 04:58 PM:name=Temphage)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Temphage @ Nov 2 2012, 04:58 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2006777"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->The skill curve for Aliens is like a brick wall, and it has a pretty low ceiling.
I've seen way too many games where these Call of Duty twitch heros all stack Marines and are running around with 36:2 KDRs only halfway through the match. Getting blasted with perfect shots from a shotgun while shadowstepping and blinking around thanks to the Fade's useless fragility, poking your nose out and getting killed in about half a second, none of this is fun whatsoever for the aliens. Especially since they spend about half their time in the spawn queue or an egg.
Also, the fact that leap no longer does any damage is total horse****. Jetpack marines have become far more powerful, simply because skulks lost one of their only effective attacks against them, and even Fades have a hard time because of how blink works and the swipe cooldown on it. Plus the fact that jetpacks have ungodly amounts of fuel and recharge in midair and in about six seconds doesn't help.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Honestly... Ceiling for aliens imo is much higher than marines.
Marines = team work + twitch + hop. Aliens = Fade + gorge + onos and all their different aspects.
Only reason people find it easier to marine is because the mechanics are almost identical to most FPS games on the market and thus all players start higher up on the marine learning curve than they do for aliens.
<!--quoteo(post=2006229:date=Nov 2 2012, 11:42 AM:name=Temphage)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Temphage @ Nov 2 2012, 11:42 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2006229"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Yeah I'm not seeing how a non-Cara Fade is viable whatsoever. Against L3 LMGs you have about two seconds of engagement time before you're missing most of your health. Then you get to go stand next to the hive doing nothing for a minute.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Fade... yeah its crap... Just keep practicing, its what I am doing... When they finally fix it I shall be the Reaper incarnate.
Leap... no, leap never did any useful dmg. I used to FARM kills with leap in ns1, in order to get ANY kills you had to two bite and then stand ONTOP of the marines head and leap downwards hitting him with the ENTIRE duration of the leap. The damage was totally inconsequential to game play.
However yes, due to leaps crazy energy consumption it is harder to hit jetpacks as skulk, but due to ns2 jetpacks being reeeeaaally slow it sorta makes sence that its distance got a nerf.
<!--quoteo(post=2006197:date=Nov 2 2012, 11:12 AM:name=xen32)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (xen32 @ Nov 2 2012, 11:12 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2006197"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I absolutely love being alien in AvP, but I hate aliens in NS. AvP aliens are much more deadly, sneaky, easier to control and well done overall. As a skulk, I feel like I'm some sort of helpless crawling worm.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
AvP was a game that was made horrible by the instant death animation attacks... You cannot compare NS2 alien gameplay to such a badly made game ... Now if you want to compare it to the previous one (AvP2 (yeah it makes no sence but AvP2 came before the recent AvP)) then ... Alien leap was more potent and they had stunning tail attacks that were quite cool... Perhaps... but all classes in that game were supposed to be equal... in NS2 Skulk isnt supposed to be as good as Onos.
--
Finally, if you ever get stuck on 1 hive and are struggling to skulk, try going lerk... Lerk spikes are pretty powerful in large rooms! :)
I really miss the NS1 Gorge. Alien Commander is nowhere near as fun. I always used to run perma-gorge, it allowed me to heal people, build resources tower, build "outposts" and so on; even build hives whenever I could while communicating with the team for it. I would manage as much as I could while helping the team, this is not something I can do in NS2.
I can barely do anything from NS1, at best I can improve the speed at which a structure is building, but I can't do much else. I can't even add Cysts, which would help the Alien Commander at times since he/she may be too busy with something else.
Last but not least, why in the world does a Hydra shooting a Marine reveal your Gorge Camouflage? It makes literally no sense at all.
I've tried to like Aliens I really have and had some success using the Lerk but skulk just feels so weak! Every public server I join people rush to stack marines and it often ends up 11-12 players on marines and 8-9 on aliens. This isn't a balance issue and I completely get you have to learn how to use skulk properly but your going to have these sorts of problems when it's so so much easier to play marines effectively. Going Skulk and getting absolutely owned when I could play a marine and do well even with the basic weapon just saps my motivation as a new player to NS.
<!--quoteo(post=2006892:date=Nov 2 2012, 06:07 PM:name=Release)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Release @ Nov 2 2012, 06:07 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2006892"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I've tried to like Aliens I really have and had some success using the Lerk but skulk just feels so weak! Every public server I join people rush to stack marines and it often ends up 11-12 players on marines and 8-9 on aliens. This isn't a balance issue and I completely get you have to learn how to use skulk properly but your going to have these sorts of problems when it's so so much easier to play marines effectively. Going Skulk and getting absolutely owned when I could play a marine and do well even with the basic weapon just saps my motivation as a new player to NS.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Gonna say the same thing to you as everyone else. Remember when you first started playing FPS, and you sucked? But you kept trying, and you learned.
--
Never fade and you will be a bad fade, never onos and you will be a bad onos, never skulk and you will be a bad skulk, IF you had never kept playing CS/DoD/CoD you would still be a bad marine.
<!--quoteo(post=2006424:date=Nov 2 2012, 05:46 AM:name=Codeine)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Codeine @ Nov 2 2012, 05:46 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2006424"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->i prefer playing aliens aswell, and get bored after a few hours of playing for the week of skulking for 10mins then using onos. every game is the same.
Aliens really do need a rework. especially the lerk.
No you can't, sure fighting one or two marines with out shotguns is easy. But lets be honest massive havoc does not include blinking in swiping once or twice and then retreating back to hive for 5mins.
I would love to see you 'wreak massive havoc' against 3 good shot marines with SG's.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--quoteo(post=2006896:date=Nov 2 2012, 10:10 AM:name=PsympleJester)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (PsympleJester @ Nov 2 2012, 10:10 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2006896"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Gonna say the same thing to you as everyone else. Remember when you first started playing FPS, and you sucked? But you kept trying, and you learned.
--
Never fade and you will be a bad fade, never onos and you will be a bad onos, never skulk and you will be a bad skulk, IF you had never kept playing CS/DoD/CoD you would still be a bad marine.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I get that, I really do but every server I join people rush to stack marines for this very reason. To play skulk effectively it's obviously better to work in packs but with the lack of communication on pub servers and the fact a lot of people like me are new to the game it's very difficult to coordinate attacks early game. So part of the reason I'm being owned is completely out of my hands. I don't understand why aliens can't have a more resilient combat alien that's a little more simple to use at around the 25-30 resource mark like the marines get shotguns. I realise this would shift the balance of the game but it sure as hell would make it more fun for new players to adjust to the alien mechanics rather than throwing them straight into the very difficult skulk and forcing them to use it for 75% of the game if you want to go out and kill stuff.
Comments
there is a huge amount of player that like ns2 in its current state.
and 2 be obvious, combat mode killed ns1. Ns2 is a teamplay based game, nobody needs those usless cs/tf2 rambos.
there is a huge amount of player that like ns2 in its current state.
and 2 be obvious, combat mode killed ns1. Ns2 is a teamplay based game, nobody needs those usless cs/tf2 rambos.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Uh did you even read my post ? I said I loved NS 2 and absolutely no where did I say we need cs/tf2 rambos.
I want to say one thing. There is no motivation to play skulk and kill marines, because there are no res per kill bonus in this game.
For example if i lost fade - my game become boring to get new 50 resources, i just need to WAIT. I have no motivation to kill marines, for faster getting resources.
And yes, i agree, fade feels wery weak. LMG players with 2-3 damage feel very dangerous.
I want to say one thing. There is no motivation to play skulk and kill marines, because there are no res per kill bonus in this game.
For example if i lost fade - my game become boring to get new 50 resources, i just need to WAIT. I have no motivation to kill marines, for faster getting resources.
And yes, i agree, fade feels wery weak. LMG players with 2-3 damage feel very dangerous.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yeah there is a lot of waiting as Aliens, whether its traversing the map, spawning, evolving, or waiting after you lose fade/onos.
We are individuals for a reason folks.
Its realy cool to pwn a squad of 4 marines as just one skulk, hopping from wall to wall.
Gorge is also realy cool; try ninja-gorging nanogrid down with bileboms from the shafts. The noobs don't know what hit 'm!
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->If you didn't master the ###### out of alien vs predator games your gonna have to learn a lot about how to play as a bitey/scratchy/stompy group of ###### vs guns.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I absolutely love being alien in AvP, but I hate aliens in NS. AvP aliens are much more deadly, sneaky, easier to control and well done overall. As a skulk, I feel like I'm some sort of helpless crawling worm.
I pretty much only play aliens these days...
I played aliens all through 223... Times were hard, so hard...
Then they gave us lolbite-of-kill-everyone'ness, stop complaining, learn to skulk.
-Word. xD
-PS. If you wanna complain about aliens, complain that Fades and Lerks have poor hp.
I honestly find a cele/cara/leap skulk better in most situations than a fade these days, but I keep practicing fade regardless..
I honestly find a cele/cara/leap skulk better in most situations than a fade these days, but I keep practicing fade regardless..<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yeah I'm not seeing how a non-Cara Fade is viable whatsoever. Against L3 LMGs you have about two seconds of engagement time before you're missing most of your health. Then you get to go stand next to the hive doing nothing for a minute.
Fade definitely needs more health. It only takes 20 pistol bullets (2 clips) to kill a Fade (with w0 vs no-cara, or w3 vs cara).
Here are a few other aspects of alien gameplay that I wish to be improved:
- Skulks feel helpless when alien team is losing (with 1 Hive), which is not very fun. Whereas it is much more common for Marines to fight til the end, and enjoy the process. Their weapons and equipment remain potent enough to kill all types of aliens, and are more likely to stage a come back from one Tech Point.
- Aliens are too difficult to learn and master IMO. This is not helped by the fact that aliens upon death, unlike marines, cannot salvage their "weapons" and "equipment", ie lifeforms.
Compare this to starcraft.
Terran/marines can turle
zerg/aliens HAVE TO be active all over the map to get a good lead.
If your skuls are just ###### around and not keeping pressure on key points you are going to lose grip because the marines will turtle and rape you.
The metagame for the rookies has to be astablished. And its a lot harder to learn Alien combat mechanics. So this makes it that aliens are a bit harder to play.
Any one can point and click, but using movement and evasion to your advantage, making marines waste their ammo and landing perfect bites is something that will take a long time to master.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Another think that shouldn't help rookies, on alien you have to aim for the head/upper body to do more damage, as a marine you shoot anywhere on the alien and that's ok.
As alien is not so easy to play for rookies, it's even harder (especialy skulk as he is smaller) if you have to aim good to shorter the combat.
As alien (especialy skulk as he is smaller) is not so easy to play for rookies, it's even harder if you have to aim good to shorter the combat.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Pretty sure you are incorrect.
As alien (especialy skulk as he is smaller) is not so easy to play for rookies, it's even harder if you have to aim good to shorter the combat.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This isn't true. There is no difference in damage between biting a marine in his feet and biting him in the head. What you're seeing as different damage is when you miss a bite and deal glancing (reduced) damage instead. There is a full initial bitecone that does 75 damage per bite no matter where you bite the marine on this hitbox. The reduced damage (50 and 25) bites are when you miss with this initial cone, but are still close enough to any part of the marine hitbox to warrant reduced bite damage.
For playing aliens, thinking creatively seems to be the key. Heads-on your skulk is way worse than a single marine but if you manage a good ambush or mis-direction you are golden. With all the rookies playing now, I often find myself eating 3+ rine squads just by attacking in the right moment. Map-Control by using vents, your superior movement speed and parasites is paramount as alien.
Also i dont see the Fade being really underpowered. If you know what you are doing movement-wise, you can still wreak massive havoc. Though I have to agree that I remember the NS1 Fade being a bit more resilient to LMG marines.
Aliens really do need a rework. especially the lerk.
<!--quoteo(post=2006411:date=Nov 2 2012, 11:39 PM:name=Blaxxun)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Blaxxun @ Nov 2 2012, 11:39 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2006411"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Also i dont see the Fade being really underpowered. If you know what you are doing movement-wise, you can still wreak massive havoc.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
No you can't, sure fighting one or two marines with out shotguns is easy. But lets be honest massive havoc does not include blinking in swiping once or twice and then retreating back to hive for 5mins.
I would love to see you 'wreak massive havoc' against 3 good shot marines with SG's.
I have been playing NS for years. I'd say I pretty much know where to be. One place to be as an Onos (when we have only 1 Fade and a lerk) is where 3 weapon 3 marines are (you never know how many will join through the PG), let's say in flight control. While fighting, I realize there's a hive push in Data Core. I take down or chase away the 3 marines, but Data core is lost. Without any chance but a base rush by the Fade and skulks. So we are fighting in different places. One goal was to reduce player vs structures gameplay. Then give us the option to face other players fast enough.
EDIT: now you can say 'aw, marines are w3, you have only one Onos, you deserve to lose'. True, but again, this isn't about balance, it's about battles that are fun. And you know how epic hive teleport could be in terms of fun.
EDIT: now you can say 'aw, marines are w3, you have only one Onos, you deserve to lose'. True, but again, this isn't about balance, it's about battles that are fun. And you know how epic hive teleport could be in terms of fun.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Arguably, you shouldn't have onos if you're talking about NS1. They're much more powerful in NS2.
Each alien has a different movement mechanic and playstyle. Marine's (aside from Exo's) all play the same.
Its just far more fun to me.
The skill curve for Aliens is like a brick wall, and it has a pretty low ceiling.
I've seen way too many games where these Call of Duty twitch heros all stack Marines and are running around with 36:2 KDRs only halfway through the match. Getting blasted with perfect shots from a shotgun while shadowstepping and blinking around thanks to the Fade's useless fragility, poking your nose out and getting killed in about half a second, none of this is fun whatsoever for the aliens. Especially since they spend about half their time in the spawn queue or an egg.
Also, the fact that leap no longer does any damage is total horse****. Jetpack marines have become far more powerful, simply because skulks lost one of their only effective attacks against them, and even Fades have a hard time because of how blink works and the swipe cooldown on it. Plus the fact that jetpacks have ungodly amounts of fuel and recharge in midair and in about six seconds doesn't help.
You mean Fade got mega nerfed whilst onos got a slight buff. (a lot more hp but no devour).
<!--quoteo(post=2006777:date=Nov 2 2012, 04:58 PM:name=Temphage)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Temphage @ Nov 2 2012, 04:58 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2006777"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->The skill curve for Aliens is like a brick wall, and it has a pretty low ceiling.
I've seen way too many games where these Call of Duty twitch heros all stack Marines and are running around with 36:2 KDRs only halfway through the match. Getting blasted with perfect shots from a shotgun while shadowstepping and blinking around thanks to the Fade's useless fragility, poking your nose out and getting killed in about half a second, none of this is fun whatsoever for the aliens. Especially since they spend about half their time in the spawn queue or an egg.
Also, the fact that leap no longer does any damage is total horse****. Jetpack marines have become far more powerful, simply because skulks lost one of their only effective attacks against them, and even Fades have a hard time because of how blink works and the swipe cooldown on it. Plus the fact that jetpacks have ungodly amounts of fuel and recharge in midair and in about six seconds doesn't help.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Honestly... Ceiling for aliens imo is much higher than marines.
Marines = team work + twitch + hop.
Aliens = Fade + gorge + onos and all their different aspects.
Only reason people find it easier to marine is because the mechanics are almost identical to most FPS games on the market
and thus all players start higher up on the marine learning curve than they do for aliens.
<!--quoteo(post=2006229:date=Nov 2 2012, 11:42 AM:name=Temphage)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Temphage @ Nov 2 2012, 11:42 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2006229"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Yeah I'm not seeing how a non-Cara Fade is viable whatsoever. Against L3 LMGs you have about two seconds of engagement time before you're missing most of your health. Then you get to go stand next to the hive doing nothing for a minute.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Fade... yeah its crap...
Just keep practicing, its what I am doing... When they finally fix it I shall be the Reaper incarnate.
Leap... no, leap never did any useful dmg.
I used to FARM kills with leap in ns1, in order to get ANY kills you had to two bite and then stand ONTOP of the marines head and leap downwards hitting him with the ENTIRE duration of the leap. The damage was totally inconsequential to game play.
However yes, due to leaps crazy energy consumption it is harder to hit jetpacks as skulk, but due to ns2 jetpacks being reeeeaaally slow it sorta makes sence that its distance got a nerf.
<!--quoteo(post=2006197:date=Nov 2 2012, 11:12 AM:name=xen32)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (xen32 @ Nov 2 2012, 11:12 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2006197"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I absolutely love being alien in AvP, but I hate aliens in NS. AvP aliens are much more deadly, sneaky, easier to control and well done overall. As a skulk, I feel like I'm some sort of helpless crawling worm.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
AvP was a game that was made horrible by the instant death animation attacks... You cannot compare NS2 alien gameplay to such a badly made game ... Now if you want to compare it to the previous one (AvP2 (yeah it makes no sence but AvP2 came before the recent AvP)) then ... Alien leap was more potent and they had stunning tail attacks that were quite cool... Perhaps... but all classes in that game were supposed to be equal... in NS2 Skulk isnt supposed to be as good as Onos.
--
Finally, if you ever get stuck on 1 hive and are struggling to skulk, try going lerk... Lerk spikes are pretty powerful in large rooms! :)
I can barely do anything from NS1, at best I can improve the speed at which a structure is building, but I can't do much else. I can't even add Cysts, which would help the Alien Commander at times since he/she may be too busy with something else.
Last but not least, why in the world does a Hydra shooting a Marine reveal your Gorge Camouflage? It makes literally no sense at all.
Gonna say the same thing to you as everyone else.
Remember when you first started playing FPS, and you sucked?
But you kept trying, and you learned.
--
Never fade and you will be a bad fade,
never onos and you will be a bad onos,
never skulk and you will be a bad skulk,
IF you had never kept playing CS/DoD/CoD you would still be a bad marine.
Aliens really do need a rework. especially the lerk.
No you can't, sure fighting one or two marines with out shotguns is easy. But lets be honest massive havoc does not include blinking in swiping once or twice and then retreating back to hive for 5mins.
I would love to see you 'wreak massive havoc' against 3 good shot marines with SG's.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Why are you trying to solo three Marines?
Remember when you first started playing FPS, and you sucked?
But you kept trying, and you learned.
--
Never fade and you will be a bad fade,
never onos and you will be a bad onos,
never skulk and you will be a bad skulk,
IF you had never kept playing CS/DoD/CoD you would still be a bad marine.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I get that, I really do but every server I join people rush to stack marines for this very reason. To play skulk effectively it's obviously better to work in packs but with the lack of communication on pub servers and the fact a lot of people like me are new to the game it's very difficult to coordinate attacks early game. So part of the reason I'm being owned is completely out of my hands. I don't understand why aliens can't have a more resilient combat alien that's a little more simple to use at around the 25-30 resource mark like the marines get shotguns. I realise this would shift the balance of the game but it sure as hell would make it more fun for new players to adjust to the alien mechanics rather than throwing them straight into the very difficult skulk and forcing them to use it for 75% of the game if you want to go out and kill stuff.