Aliens Lack In Fun Factor ?
TimmahIsASaint
Join Date: 2012-09-24 Member: 160678Members
Join Date: 2012-09-24 Member: 160678Members
<div class="IPBDescription">Is it just me ?</div>I don't know. I find the like 10 minutes (Maybe more depending on what the teams doing) before Fades and Onos just kind of meh. I know I can't engage Marines straight on and the majority of the time its a squad of three or four roaming wreaking havoc so I have to run behind em and nom their RTS/Power nodes for 2 minutes then they run back and kill me or I hide. Rinse and repeat for 10-15 minutes. Yes I know I could Gorge or Lurk and sometimes I do and I have a little more fun but I don't know it just seems weak. Especially as far as Strategic Depth as a com and a player. I feel like the strategy is just forced on you. You can't one base at all. Other than a zergling rush spawn you really don't have much of an early game strength in my opinion. And I guess it comes down to waiting for Fades and Onos.
Meanwhile Marines get shotties, jetpacks (yes this is a bit later BUT everyone can afford one where as late game if you die with a fade or onos your not likely to be getting one right after you spawn), phase gates, then late game exos. I don't think I'm the only one who thinks this because a lot of servers everyone seems to be waiting to get on marine. And before you point out "This is a new game, Aliens require a different playstyle and most new players don't understand that yet so give it time." I played the beta and I feel the same was true even with good players on your team. Just my two cents. :/ I still love the game I just feel Aliens need a buff in the fun factor and tech routes.
Meanwhile Marines get shotties, jetpacks (yes this is a bit later BUT everyone can afford one where as late game if you die with a fade or onos your not likely to be getting one right after you spawn), phase gates, then late game exos. I don't think I'm the only one who thinks this because a lot of servers everyone seems to be waiting to get on marine. And before you point out "This is a new game, Aliens require a different playstyle and most new players don't understand that yet so give it time." I played the beta and I feel the same was true even with good players on your team. Just my two cents. :/ I still love the game I just feel Aliens need a buff in the fun factor and tech routes.
Comments
(Except maybe for slightly different skulk movement).
Skulk needs its movement tweaked to be on par with the fun factor of the rest, but it will get there. Wall jump is currently not where it should be, but it is getting better. When wall jump is tweaked to offer better movement mechanics skulk will be fantastic. As it is you can do some cool stuff by jumping from high altitude and bunny hopping to maintain that speed as you slam into a marine's face, but it just isn't as good as it should be.
For Aliens, if you want to help the Comm you get to...kill or smash power nodes. Woo. Fun. That's why when I /have/ to play Aliens, I'll just perma-Gorge.
Its not the winning or losing that makes me not enjoy Aliens. Its their current set up.
For example why do they have longer spawn times and less mobility ?
I don't know how to put it. Maybe I'm missing something but I don't seem to be the only one and I'm not just talking about beginner players stacking on Marines.
If you're a new player, all I can say is learn how each life form plays. You have to go with teamates and overwhelm the opposition if you want to rush, or you ambush and use guerrilla hit and run tactics.
It's not necessary to kill a marine always if you can make him stray from his teamates, get them alone and then kill them... or just make them waste time chasing you while your teamates take out objectives.
As far as strategy... any public game with new players is just simply incapable of any seriously intelligent or complex strategy. It takes time for players to experience and discover strategies for a commander to be able to issue them and have marines be understanding and willing participants. I still remember from 10 years ago the crazy games I had on NS1, and NS2 is more than capable of matching it.
For Aliens, if you want to help the Comm you get to...kill or smash power nodes. Woo. Fun. That's why when I /have/ to play Aliens, I'll just perma-Gorge.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yeah I really agree with this. As an Alien I really don't feel like I'm making an impact even if I chomp on an extractor for 3 minutes and maybe a power node. I know this is partially because marine com is much more hands on and Alien Com is more laid back but Aliens just seem lacking in fun.
Any one can point and click, but using movement and evasion to your advantage, making marines waste their ammo and landing perfect bites is something that will take a long time to master.
If you're a new player, all I can say is learn how each life form plays. You have to go with teamates and overwhelm the opposition if you want to rush, or you ambush and use guerrilla hit and run tactics.
It's not necessary to kill a marine always if you can make him stray from his teamates, get them alone and then kill them... or just make them waste time chasing you while your teamates take out objectives.
As far as strategy... any public game with new players is just simply incapable of any seriously intelligent or complex strategy. It takes time for players to experience and discover strategies for a commander to be able to issue them and have marines be understanding and willing participants. I still remember from 10 years ago the crazy games I had on NS1, and NS2 is more than capable of matching it.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The very beginning equates to the first 2 mins maybe depending on first contact. I'm not a new player, and generally most matches I play in don't have many rookies. Its not even complex strategies I'm looking for its just ANY strategy. Every game goes fast two hives, carapace, celerity defend two hives till fades or onos.
Maybe its just a preference of mine. I hope Aliens see some nice changes though.
And yes that is a problem I really have is late game if you spawn as a skulk and can't afford Onos or Fade and your team has a decent lerk you can do very little compared to a marine who spawns 3 3.
Alien upgrades do not compare in the slightest to marines and I know they probably aren't supposed to but it just makes you feel useless late game.
Ok, now this is not a fair comparison most likely but honestly in AvP playing Aliens against Marines was a lot more fun. You felt much more empowered as you snuck around. I know the game mechanics are completely different and I don't mean to compare the two games just the feeling you get when playing them.
Marines had some pretty awesome toys though, like the Smart Gun.
The current Marines have some awesome toys :P GIANT ROBOTS anyone ?
I'm not saying their not fun at all. I just feel they could be funner ? More fun ? lol they could be the FUNNEST ?
Exos aren't worth the res. They're too weak because of the fifty billion limitations they have, which is why you pretty much never see them come out in a comp game.
Smart Gun would actually go out and kill sombetches with homing bullets.
Smart Gun would actually go out and kill sombetches with homing bullets.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Them limitations don't apply in many pub games where no one uses rez till dual exos and you get 6 of em with welder buddies with Jetpacks and shotties. REGARDLESS though, they are fun as hell to play.
you can only use knife and the other team uses a pistol. you could use to have bunnyhop and all those stuff that could get you to the opponents fast. now your bunnyhop is taken away and opponents would avoid dark places and obstacles. fun or challenging?
Put it that way:
1. long spawn times
2. no hive teleport, very very much running around for helping somewhere just to recognize the rush is over half-way
3. not able to prevent a serious hive rush (see 2.)
4. poor (auditive) feedback when being hit as a skulk=feeling unaware and powerless
5. basic lifeform feels unaware and powerless - basic marine feels like he can do at least something
6. marines have the mission to build stuff, aliens don't have to think about that at all, but the gorge (in NS1 it was always 'who makes RTs/chambers/hive?')
7. no res for kill or any other useful action
8. no res while dead
9. 6,7,8 lead to just wait for getting more res to finally being able to afford something; 8. leads to being AFK is the fastest way to gain res
10. tech explosion = when Onos appears, there are 3 of them = game over = no epic battles (sometimes there are, but it could be more often)
11. no Focus (double damage, double cooldown attack for late game, so you don't have to bite 5 times and feel more precise - worked perfect in NS1)
There are some more, but I think it's enough so far.
I want to make clear that these are small adjustments, I don't want to complain about Aliens in general (UWE hears a lot of crap from us, I don't mean it that way). I think this list is constructive and make sense.
EDIT:
2 more important points:
12. marine sprint
13. marine jump height and/or strange player collision
And: I know UWE will make Aliens better, usually when you think 'dammit' it will be fixed after a couple of patches.
1. long spawn times
2. no hive teleport, very very much running around for helping somewhere just to recognize the rush is over half-way
3. not able to prevent a serious hive rush (see 2.)
4. poor (auditive) feedback when being hit as a skulk=feeling unaware and powerless
5. basic lifeform feels unaware and powerless - basic marine feels like he can do at least something
6. marines have the mission to build stuff, aliens don't have to think about that at all, but the gorge (in NS1 it was always 'who makes RTs/chambers/hive?')
7. no res for kill or any other useful action
8. no res while dead
9. 6,7,8 lead to just wait for getting more res to finally being able to afford something; 8. leads to being AFK is the fastest way to gain res
10. tech explosion = when Onos appears, there are 3 of them = game over = no epic battles (sometimes there are, but it could be more often)
11. no Focus (double damage, double cooldown attack for late game, so you don't have to bite 5 times and feel more precise - worked perfect in NS1)<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I believe this is quite a good list. I want this thread to be positive. Not complaining, sorry if it came off that way. Everyone on the forums just wants to see the game succeed! And right now its freaking awesome just could be a bit better :P
Marines do not suffer a lack of focus in objectives since everything they do requires a couple of numbers in team force (such as building and killing).
They have less health than they did in NS1 and because the armory heals armor marines run around with max HP near all the time making fading kinda difficult especially for the new players. The low HP was a product of fade domination back when hit reg was pretty terrible, maybe in the future it will get tuned up a smidgen to let the fade not be so dependent on carapace.
Marines do not suffer a lack of focus in objectives since everything they do requires a couple of numbers in team force (such as building and killing).<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
i bet you didnt do ns1? it was the strategy focus and it is sub-par to (ninja) phase gates where you could place it everywhere...
1. Asymmetry is not an argument, because beacon/phasegate is something else.
2. We already had an 'asymmetric', 'creative' solution for that. They made celerity damn fast. When you were attacked, it would slow you down. Sounded like an OK solution, but just didn't work out.
Think of something else to solve the issues, I can't.