View tilting when reloading

Raza.Raza. Join Date: 2004-01-24 Member: 25663Members, Constellation
<div class="IPBDescription">Why?</div>The LMG and Grenade Launcher show a strange behaviour. When you reload, the view is being tilted forward and remains in that position for the duration of the reload. What that means is that the crosshair moves down and then back up, making it hard to properly track anything.

Is that a bug? Feature? Oversight?

If it is intended please reconsider this functionality. There is no reason for a reload animation to affect either view or crosshair position.
It just makes me fight the controls when I should be fighting aliens.
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Comments

  • kingmobkingmob Join Date: 2002-11-01 Member: 3650Members, Constellation
    Well worded and to the point.
    (If all posts could be so....)

    +1
  • MiniH0wieMiniH0wie Join Date: 2007-11-25 Member: 63013Members
    Agreed, I hate that it does this.

    I'm always find myself pulling the crosshairs back up while reloading to keep on target to find that after the reload is done, I'm about a foot too high and miss...
  • DeityDeity Join Date: 2012-01-31 Member: 142843Members, Reinforced - Shadow
    I agree with the OP.
  • 1dominator11dominator1 Join Date: 2010-11-19 Member: 75011Members
    It is somewhat annoying when aiming at stuff far away.
  • countbasiecountbasie Join Date: 2008-12-27 Member: 65884Members
    Had a thread on that, too.

    +1 removing this.
  • Shrike3OShrike3O Join Date: 2002-11-03 Member: 6678Members, Constellation
    I wouldn't have a problem with it if my point of aim indicator at least stayed in the right place, but as-is it's just annoying.
  • NominousNominous Baltimore, MD Join Date: 2012-02-18 Member: 146518Members
    edited March 2012
    I agree that it's detrimental when trying to keep track of the enemy. I can't remember any fps games where reloading actually moves your crosshair. Even sprinting in games like MW3 and Battlefield 3 does not affect your aim as much as NS2.

    +1 for removal.
  • NurEinMenschNurEinMensch Join Date: 2003-02-26 Member: 14056Members, Constellation
    Yeah it's annoying. Please remove that.
  • xRookxRook Join Date: 2010-07-23 Member: 72699Members
    +1 for it being an annoyance. I always need to make a conscious effort to not compensate on the vertical axis while the reload animation is going, so it's not off when I can actually shoot again.
  • MajinMajin Join Date: 2003-05-29 Member: 16829Members, Constellation
    I dont mind if they keep the animation, as long as my cross hair ends up in the exact same place
  • MiniH0wieMiniH0wie Join Date: 2007-11-25 Member: 63013Members
    <!--quoteo(post=1911301:date=Mar 8 2012, 11:34 AM:name=Majin)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Majin @ Mar 8 2012, 11:34 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1911301"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I dont mind if they keep the animation, as long as my cross hair ends up in the exact same place<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    Actually your crosshairs do end up back in the exact same place if you don't move your mouse during the entire reload animation.
    But the problem I have is that it's a natural instinct to try and keep the crosshairs on the same spot when reloading which ends up putting the crosshair at a higher point when the reloading animation finishes.
  • RisingSunRisingSun Rising California Join Date: 2004-04-19 Member: 28015Members, Constellation, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow
    <!--quoteo(post=1911301:date=Mar 8 2012, 04:34 PM:name=Majin)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Majin @ Mar 8 2012, 04:34 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1911301"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I dont mind if they keep the animation, as long as my cross hair ends up in the exact same place<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    Op +1 and totally agree Majin
  • InfraRedInfraRed Join Date: 2003-01-20 Member: 12508Members, Constellation
    Yep this caught me out as well, even though the xhairs do go back to their original position, it will throw a lot of people off until they get used to it.

    It's similar to something in BF3, if you are using a weapon on a bipod then hit reload, while the animation is playing the aim doesn't move with your mouse movements but when the reload has finished it then catches up and throws the aim off. It's as though it recorded your mouse movements while reloading then suddenly applies all those movements afterwards. You have to learn not to move the mouse when reloading with a bipod, it doesn't make sense why it's like that at all, so should be removed!
  • zastelszastels Join Date: 2003-11-29 Member: 23731Members
    I have no problem with it, I thought it was kinda cool. It's an immersion element.

    Why do you need to track something if you're reloading?

    Why can you not compensate? Counter-Strike is very popular and people have to compensate every time they shoot!
  • SrCumferenceSrCumference Join Date: 2002-11-01 Member: 3740Members
    I'm with zastels on this. Perhaps it is because I play more for immersion than to pwnz0r n00bs, but I am fine with it as is because it increases immersion. And you can't shoot anything while you are reloading anyway, but it might be nice to have it be consistently in place for perhaps the last second of the reload, to allow you to acquire your target by the time you are ready to shoot again.
  • DeityDeity Join Date: 2012-01-31 Member: 142843Members, Reinforced - Shadow
    How on earth does it increase immersion? You don't have a floating crosshair in real life, you have iron sights or optics. What increases immersion is when things like flashlights and laser pointers fly all over the place when you reload, not your crosshair.

    It adds nothing and it is not intuitive. There's no reason players should have to learn to adjust for a non-feature such as this.
  • hamham Join Date: 2011-08-31 Member: 119370Members, Constellation
    <!--quoteo(post=1911335:date=Mar 8 2012, 02:23 PM:name=SrCumference)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (SrCumference @ Mar 8 2012, 02:23 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1911335"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I'm with zastels on this. Perhaps it is because I play more for immersion than to pwnz0r n00bs, but I am fine with it as is because it increases immersion. And you can't shoot anything while you are reloading anyway, but it might be nice to have it be consistently in place for perhaps the last second of the reload, to allow you to acquire your target by the time you are ready to shoot again.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    I would say your immersion comes second to my gameplay. This is a FPS not a RPG.
  • SkieSkie Skulk Progenitor Join Date: 2003-10-18 Member: 21766Members, NS2 Playtester, Reinforced - Shadow
    Personally I think much worse is that you can't see your ammo while reloading, so you don't see when EXACTLY the reloading is done. Because it finishes reloading the rifle before the animation ends, and you can bash with the rifle as soon as the ammo updates. But the ammo display is outside of the screen space during reloading.

    So. Annoying.

    Pic related:
    <img src="http://i.imgur.com/zy4Dl.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />

    Anyone up for modding ammo counter on the UI, not on the weapons?
  • Raza.Raza. Join Date: 2004-01-24 Member: 25663Members, Constellation
    I knew someone would bring up immersion... Please explain what is supposed to be immersive about it!
    When the game decides to look down without me doing anything, it makes me realise that I'm not in full control. And that breaks immersion.

    @zastel
    You can't compare this to recoil in Counter-Strike.
    CS is a more realistic and slower game than NS2, and recoil is a gameplay feature there.
    In NS2, the moving crosshair (technically it doesn't move, but that's how it feels effectively) during reload has no basis in gameplay. Here it is an interface quirk.
  • IeptBarakatIeptBarakat The most difficult name to speak ingame. Join Date: 2009-07-10 Member: 68107Members, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Diamond, Reinforced - Shadow
    If you wanted realism in it you would have the camera stay and the holo-crosshair move when you're reloading. As it would be moving to wherever the gun is pointing to during reloading.
  • NominousNominous Baltimore, MD Join Date: 2012-02-18 Member: 146518Members
    <!--quoteo(post=1911330:date=Mar 8 2012, 03:13 PM:name=zastels)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (zastels @ Mar 8 2012, 03:13 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1911330"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Why do you need to track something if you're reloading?

    Why can you not compensate? Counter-Strike is very popular and people have to compensate every time they shoot!<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Because the player needs as much undisturbed aiming as possible in order to perform their best; like mimicking an aimbot. Many advanced players, namely pros, try their best to track the enemy even as they reload. This way their crosshair is on the target the moment they are able to shoot again. This is prevalent in TF2, where there is no recoil and no gameplay quirks that affect aim. I'm no pro, but I sure don't want anything besides my input affecting my aim.

    Having to compensate for a reloading animation is plain silly since there isn't even a recoil system in NS2. Why give the player an aiming disadvantage using the assault rifle when shotties and flamethrowers are perfectly fine?
  • zastelszastels Join Date: 2003-11-29 Member: 23731Members
    <!--quoteo(post=1911364:date=Mar 8 2012, 06:17 PM:name=Karnaj)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Karnaj @ Mar 8 2012, 06:17 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1911364"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Because the player needs as much undisturbed aiming as possible in order to perform their best; like mimicking an aimbot. Many advanced players, namely pros, try their best to track the enemy even as they reload. This way their crosshair is on the target the moment they are able to shoot again. This is prevalent in TF2, where there is no recoil and no gameplay quirks that affect aim. I'm no pro, but I sure don't want anything besides my input affecting my aim.

    Having to compensate for a reloading animation is plain silly since there isn't even a recoil system in NS2. Why give the player an aiming disadvantage using the assault rifle when shotties and flamethrowers are perfectly fine?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    I dunno man, it's such a little thing I would not consider it a disadvantage. I do not consider it something that is challenging even remotely.
  • Chris0132Chris0132 Join Date: 2009-07-25 Member: 68262Members
    I can't say I even noticed it happened, much less that it annoys me.

    Seems kinda like people complaining about anything that might make the game slightly difficult for them, which is kinda like saying we shouldn't have graphics because they detract from the gameplay.
  • playerplayer Join Date: 2010-09-12 Member: 73982Members
    <!--quoteo(post=1911425:date=Mar 9 2012, 02:38 AM:name=Chris0132)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Chris0132 @ Mar 9 2012, 02:38 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1911425"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Seems kinda like people complaining about anything that might make the game <strike>slightly difficult for them</strike> induce vomiting.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    I agree with Raza, it sucks and makes things more annoying. Same story with sprinting and the bobbing associated with that. Same story with jumping and the swinging of the weapon-model associated with that. You like that sort of thing, that's fine, but make it an option please.
  • countbasiecountbasie Join Date: 2008-12-27 Member: 65884Members
    edited March 2012
    <!--quoteo(post=1911399:date=Mar 9 2012, 01:38 AM:name=zastels)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (zastels @ Mar 9 2012, 01:38 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1911399"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I dunno man, it's such a little thing I would not consider it a disadvantage. I do not consider it something that is challenging even remotely.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    <strike> In counter-strike your crosshair never moves, it just gets bigger. </strike>

    I am not a pro, but I play shooters on high skill levels, and this is one of the most annoying things I ever experienced. You have to aim while reloading if you want to hit as much as you can. If you don't want to hit that much, yeah, then it's not a big thing.

    Chris0132: Aiming is challenging enough...no need for making it unpredictable.

    Edit: wrong information.
  • NominousNominous Baltimore, MD Join Date: 2012-02-18 Member: 146518Members
    <!--quoteo(post=1911399:date=Mar 8 2012, 07:38 PM:name=zastels)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (zastels @ Mar 8 2012, 07:38 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1911399"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I dunno man, it's such a little thing I would not consider it a disadvantage. I do not consider it something that is challenging even remotely.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    I guess it doesn't make much difference on paper, but I still think being able to track accurately while reloading is a good habit. Granted, you could switch to the pistol if you empty a rifle mid-fight, but switching between weapons tends to lock up sometimes. I've spent years playing various FPS games (CS, TFC, NS1, AVA, TF2) and I just don't like anything that affects my aim artificially. Anyways, here are some aspects of the view tilt I've derived:

    Positive:
    Immersive/realistic element.

    Neutral:
    Inconsistency among other reloading weapons.
    Breaks away from conventional FPS mechanics.

    Negative:
    Affects aim for players that track aliens during reload.
  • Ice30Ice30 Join Date: 2011-11-26 Member: 135365Members
    +1 should be removed, is just confusing and frustrating without adding anything to the game
  • DeityDeity Join Date: 2012-01-31 Member: 142843Members, Reinforced - Shadow
    edited March 2012
    <!--quoteo(post=1911432:date=Mar 8 2012, 09:54 PM:name=Karnaj)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Karnaj @ Mar 8 2012, 09:54 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1911432"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Positive:
    Immersive/realistic element.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    Can you explain how it is immersive? Your crosshair is simply a GUI aid to help you see the center of the screen. It's not a laser pointer. If it was, it would make sense if it moved.

    As far as realism goes, I don't have a disembodied crosshair in real life when I shoot guns, do you? I either have iron sights or optics that I am looking through, neither of which slightly bob when I reload the weapon.

    The crosshair isn't following where your muzzle is pointing as a laser would, it is just bobbing up and down for absolutely no discernable reason.
  • DooM-AUDooM-AU Join Date: 2011-06-27 Member: 106715Members
    Dont forget about the Sprint tilting to!(just in-case no one mentioned that one)

    View bobbing (I believe its referred to) is the most annoying sh*t FPS games have, and if they are going to have it in NS2 at least have an option to turn that sh*t off!
  • IeptBarakatIeptBarakat The most difficult name to speak ingame. Join Date: 2009-07-10 Member: 68107Members, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Diamond, Reinforced - Shadow
    edited March 2012
    If the crosshair was following the gun like the crosshair does in Agiel's free aim mod. I'd call it realistic and immersive for the ns2 world. As it basically is a hud projected laser pointer.
    <center><object width="450" height="356"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/47nYFY52kiU"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/47nYFY52kiU" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" width="450" height="356"></embed></object></center>

    (The view stays the same but the crosshair follows the gun if the player reloads, does a riflebutt, or starts sprinting.)
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