<!--quoteo(post=1911579:date=Mar 9 2012, 11:20 AM:name=Deity)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Deity @ Mar 9 2012, 11:20 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1911579"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Can you explain how it is immersive? Your crosshair is simply a GUI aid to help you see the center of the screen. It's not a laser pointer. If it was, it would make sense if it moved.
As far as realism goes, I don't have a disembodied crosshair in real life when I shoot guns, do you? I either have iron sights or optics that I am looking through, neither of which slightly bob when I reload the weapon.
The crosshair isn't following where your muzzle is pointing as a laser would, it is just bobbing up and down for absolutely no discernable reason.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> You misunderstand; my last post simply regurgitates why players are for or against the view tilt. My posts argue <i>against</i> it like yours and the majority of players'. :P
But since you brought it up, in real life, a gun does not always aim at where you're looking; your gun may stay in a fixed position while your eyeballs roll around or your head turns to look at different objects. The focus point of your eyes is the true 'center of the screen' and the iron sights/optics simply help line up shots. This is where the dev that implemented the view tilt tries to blend real life with FPS conventions. The marine's head bobs down to simulate the fact that he's looking at or near his gun while reloading. If you'll notice, the crosshair is not disembodied and your view actually shifts downward. But this breaks away from the FPS standard where the player's crosshair should always remain fixed based on user input. Again, I'm against the view tilt just as you are.
I saw that you were summarizing but by listing it as a positive you seemed to be giving merit to the idea. Even though we agree that it should be removed, you seemed to think that it helped immersion, a conclusion with which I totally disagree due to the lack of supporting facts.
Even if the crosshair is where your eyes are focused then it should never move even if your character model is headbanging. The entire world should move, but never your crosshair.
<!--quoteo(post=1911431:date=Mar 8 2012, 10:47 PM:name=countbasie)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (countbasie @ Mar 8 2012, 10:47 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1911431"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->In counter-strike your crosshair never moves, it just gets bigger.
I am not a pro, but I play shooters on high skill levels, and this is one of the most annoying things I ever experienced. You have to aim while reloading if you want to hit as much as you can. If you don't want to hit that much, yeah, then it's not a big thing.
Chris0132: Aiming is challenging enough...no need for making it unpredictable.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The crosshair does move in Counter-Strike when firing. It moves up, then left to right randomly.
The animation in NS2 you're complaining about is not random, it is the same every time. So how is it unpredictable?
I'm not saying your opinion is wrong, but what you need to do is take a step back, and realize that you can complain about everything and always list reasons. In this case, I'd say the reasoning is pretty weak. The gun is already firing in a straight line, no recoil, no spread. How do you manage to enjoy yourself in other games if you find this to be a problem?
I don't like the crosshair going down while reloading either. But maybe the reason it was implemented was to make reloading more of a punishment? So its more a gameplay question of flow vs bullet management? I dno. It is something you get used to, so i think the question to ask is whether its jarring and offputting for new players.
douchebagatronCustom member titleJoin Date: 2003-12-20Member: 24581Members, Constellation, Reinforced - Shadow
i like it. as for immersion, it makes everything feel more real and less wooden. If it's removed then it should be tied to a viewbob setting so it can be turned on.
IronHorseDeveloper, QA Manager, Technical Support & contributorJoin Date: 2010-05-08Member: 71669Members, Super Administrators, Forum Admins, Forum Moderators, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Subnautica Playtester, Subnautica PT Lead, Pistachionauts
edited March 2012
then make it so the crosshair moves and the view stays the same. irl i can reload a weapon without my head tilting out of control. o.0 if the crosshair was moving it would be a good indication for when reload is done while staring straight at what you were aiming for, especially if a suddle "flash" or "highlight" occured for the crosshair once back into position?
<!--quoteo(post=1911732:date=Mar 10 2012, 03:00 AM:name=zastels)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (zastels @ Mar 10 2012, 03:00 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1911732"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->The crosshair does move in Counter-Strike when firing. It moves up, then left to right randomly.
The animation in NS2 you're complaining about is not random, it is the same every time. So how is it unpredictable?
I'm not saying your opinion is wrong, but what you need to do is take a step back, and realize that you can complain about everything and always list reasons. In this case, I'd say the reasoning is pretty weak. The gun is already firing in a straight line, no recoil, no spread. How do you manage to enjoy yourself in other games if you find this to be a problem?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Lol sorry for that misinformation, I just checked it (didn't play CS in years). But the difference is, that you always know where the -first shot- will hit. Well it's important in games with a headshot system, you barely hold down the fire button in CS. I don't have a problem with recoil, I actually like recoil.
Still I don't like moving it while reloading and since you don't care maybe you would be ok with removing it? ;)
It's just not senseful since no other weapon does that. It is really hard to get used to it. When every weapon does it the same way, then I would start to train prediction, even if I still don't like it.
And people that know me in reallife know also that I love listing reasons for argumenting anything :D it's art ;)
Comments
As far as realism goes, I don't have a disembodied crosshair in real life when I shoot guns, do you? I either have iron sights or optics that I am looking through, neither of which slightly bob when I reload the weapon.
The crosshair isn't following where your muzzle is pointing as a laser would, it is just bobbing up and down for absolutely no discernable reason.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You misunderstand; my last post simply regurgitates why players are for or against the view tilt. My posts argue <i>against</i> it like yours and the majority of players'. :P
But since you brought it up, in real life, a gun does not always aim at where you're looking; your gun may stay in a fixed position while your eyeballs roll around or your head turns to look at different objects. The focus point of your eyes is the true 'center of the screen' and the iron sights/optics simply help line up shots. This is where the dev that implemented the view tilt tries to blend real life with FPS conventions. The marine's head bobs down to simulate the fact that he's looking at or near his gun while reloading. If you'll notice, the crosshair is not disembodied and your view actually shifts downward. But this breaks away from the FPS standard where the player's crosshair should always remain fixed based on user input. Again, I'm against the view tilt just as you are.
Even if the crosshair is where your eyes are focused then it should never move even if your character model is headbanging. The entire world should move, but never your crosshair.
I am not a pro, but I play shooters on high skill levels, and this is one of the most annoying things I ever experienced. You have to aim while reloading if you want to hit as much as you can. If you don't want to hit that much, yeah, then it's not a big thing.
Chris0132: Aiming is challenging enough...no need for making it unpredictable.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The crosshair does move in Counter-Strike when firing. It moves up, then left to right randomly.
The animation in NS2 you're complaining about is not random, it is the same every time. So how is it unpredictable?
I'm not saying your opinion is wrong, but what you need to do is take a step back, and realize that you can complain about everything and always list reasons. In this case, I'd say the reasoning is pretty weak. The gun is already firing in a straight line, no recoil, no spread. How do you manage to enjoy yourself in other games if you find this to be a problem?
totally agree. no sense and really annoying
It is something you get used to, so i think the question to ask is whether its jarring and offputting for new players.
if the crosshair was moving it would be a good indication for when reload is done while staring straight at what you were aiming for, especially if a suddle "flash" or "highlight" occured for the crosshair once back into position?
oh yea, +1 to OP
The animation in NS2 you're complaining about is not random, it is the same every time. So how is it unpredictable?
I'm not saying your opinion is wrong, but what you need to do is take a step back, and realize that you can complain about everything and always list reasons. In this case, I'd say the reasoning is pretty weak. The gun is already firing in a straight line, no recoil, no spread. How do you manage to enjoy yourself in other games if you find this to be a problem?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Lol sorry for that misinformation, I just checked it (didn't play CS in years). But the difference is, that you always know where the -first shot- will hit. Well it's important in games with a headshot system, you barely hold down the fire button in CS.
I don't have a problem with recoil, I actually like recoil.
Still I don't like moving it while reloading and since you don't care maybe you would be ok with removing it? ;)
It's just not senseful since no other weapon does that. It is really hard to get used to it. When every weapon does it the same way, then I would start to train prediction, even if I still don't like it.
And people that know me in reallife know also that I love listing reasons for argumenting anything :D it's art ;)