Effort For Changing Muzzle Flash And Skulk Teeth

RuriRuri Join Date: 2002-11-02 Member: 4709Members
Rallying an effort for muzzle flash AND skulks teeth to be toned down.

Simply put, both of these models are obtrusive, unnecessary, and unrealistic. The muzzle flash makes tracking targets to the right side of the screen difficult for marines. And the skulk’s teeth make it difficult to acquire a new target while biting another. Also it’s just plain unrealistic for skulks to have eyes in their mouth; just look at their models. It’s also unrealistic for a predator alien like the skulk being “visually impaired”. And with all the fine technology the marines have, one would guess that they would have muzzle suppressors, instead of blinding themselves.

In what game have you ever seen or heard people being called cheaters because they wanted to remove gun models? You haven’t - simply because no other game has the audacity to handicap a player’s vision in this way.

I have never cheated let alone considered cheating. Yet for me wanting to enjoy my playing experience instead of cursing at visual obstructions, I am being branded as a cheater. Some of you may be used to the models being there. But as a competitive player like me and others will know, not seeing the entire playing field makes a big difference.

If balance is the issue at hand (surely can’t be realism) then I suggest the developers tone down BOTH the marines muzzle flash AND the skulk’s teeth. Instead of continuing to allow players have their vision hampered, make the playing field fair by reconsidering the gun models themselves. I believe this is fair for both sides of the argument.

Please post here if you are for, or against the idea – giving reasons for your argument. Or suggest a new idea. And please do not post until you have taken others opinions within this thread into account.
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Comments

  • SemperFiSemperFi Join Date: 2002-08-02 Member: 1049Members
  • LarofeticusLarofeticus Join Date: 2002-10-30 Member: 1764Members
    no no no make them worse, and that way skilled players will still be able to deal with it, and unskilled players will get owned, much like now except more severe, and punish people who try to change them. haxoring is bad!
  • sLaMsLaM Join Date: 2002-11-28 Member: 10172Members
    As long as BOTH the marine muzzle flash AND the skulks teeth are toned down a few notches, I have no problem with the idea at all <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
  • BathroomMonkeyBathroomMonkey Feces-hurling Monkey Boy Join Date: 2002-01-25 Member: 78Members, Retired Developer, NS1 Playtester, Contributor
    edited December 2002
    If by 'rallying an effort' you mean 'tossing out needless new posts when others already exist on the same exact subject one or two threads down on the very same page', then by all means, go ahead. It's a pretty good way to be obnoxious and hurt your cause.

    <!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->audacity<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    Let's talk about this word. Audacity . . . like, the audacity to <b>demand</b> things of this game? Screw it. Flame away, but I've been around these Damn boards for long enough to know that for every opinion that someone posts, there are <b>always</b> people who oppose it. There are <b>always</b> people who agree with it. And there are <b>always</b> people who are neutral about it. Frankly, I'm just absolutely sick of the people that saunter in here saying how the devs are high-horse riding, ignorant idiots <i>unless</i> they <b>immediately</b> capitulate to their demands. Because even if people have different opinions, they're <b>wrong</b>, and you're right.

    Hell, I am all for the community, but I <b>refuse</b> to listen to someone who thinks that their opinion is the only one that matters on a subject.
  • LarofeticusLarofeticus Join Date: 2002-10-30 Member: 1764Members
    (psst when you get destroyed by a developer, thats a <i>bad</i> thing)
  • King_titanKing_titan Join Date: 2002-12-14 Member: 10776Members
    It shouldn't be toned down, because its PART OF THE GAME. :0000 <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
  • CForresterCForrester P0rk(h0p Join Date: 2002-10-05 Member: 1439Members, Constellation
    I'm against this. They're in there for balance reasons. Also, your realism comment... The game is not meant to be realistic. As Coil has said... "If I wanted realism, I'd go outside and eat a plant."
  • BathroomMonkeyBathroomMonkey Feces-hurling Monkey Boy Join Date: 2002-01-25 Member: 78Members, Retired Developer, NS1 Playtester, Contributor
    edited December 2002
    The same applies to you, Fopher.

    I won't apologize for being outspoken in defense of the dev team.

    To throw the challenge back at you-- find one instance where I threw the first stone.
  • PraevusPraevus Join Date: 2002-11-13 Member: 8424Members
    OR you could download the pulse rifle model as a replacement for your reg LMG skin. Pulse rifle model is lower on your screen, and the muzzle doesn't even interfere. Its fk'in great I tell ya. But, don't get the Halo model/LMG as it makes it much worse.
  • BathroomMonkeyBathroomMonkey Feces-hurling Monkey Boy Join Date: 2002-01-25 Member: 78Members, Retired Developer, NS1 Playtester, Contributor
    That was no more spiteful than your initial post . . .

    And come on, the whole 'three minutes later' thing? We're both obviously watching this post at this point . . .
  • Jerry_111_ElendJerry_111_Elend Join Date: 2002-10-02 Member: 1407Members
    You DO have a point on the eyes in mouth thing...
  • sLaMsLaM Join Date: 2002-11-28 Member: 10172Members
    <!--QuoteBegin--Jerry_111 [Elend]+Dec 14 2002, 03:30 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Jerry_111 [Elend] @ Dec 14 2002, 03:30 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->You DO have a point on the eyes in mouth thing...<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Yeah... that really doesnt make sense when you think about it... <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='confused.gif'><!--endemo-->
  • NukeitalllNukeitalll Join Date: 2002-11-29 Member: 10208Members
    <!--QuoteBegin--Larofeticus+Dec 14 2002, 03:20 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Larofeticus @ Dec 14 2002, 03:20 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->(psst when you get destroyed by a developer, thats a <i>bad</i> thing)<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Hahahaha, oh, that's rich.
  • CForresterCForrester P0rk(h0p Join Date: 2002-10-05 Member: 1439Members, Constellation
    What if the skulk has eyes in it's mouth, but decoys on it's head to fool people? Have you thought of that?
  • Spyder_MonkeySpyder_Monkey Vampire-Ninja-Monkey Join Date: 2002-01-24 Member: 8Members, NS1 Playtester, Contributor
    <!--QuoteBegin--Fopher+Dec 14 2002, 11:24 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Fopher @ Dec 14 2002, 11:24 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->10 bucks to the man that finds the last time Bathroom Monkey had something nice to say.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    <a href='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index.php?act=ST&f=1&t=15861&hl=&#entry183072' target='_blank'>http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/in...l=&#entry183072</a>



    <!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->
    <b>Thanks, Tommy</b>
    <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    I want my money. You can ship it to...
  • RuriRuri Join Date: 2002-11-02 Member: 4709Members
    If it is in there for balance reasons, then make sufficient changes to both sides in order to keep balance.

    But I really don't think anyone here feels these models are not visually imparing. If that is the case, then why have a "problem" for both sides in the name of balance? Just remove it from both sides, and won't it remain balanced?

    Using custom gun models is only a temporary fix, since most servers will evetually require all model compliance.

    And ROFL @ CForrester
  • LarofeticusLarofeticus Join Date: 2002-10-30 Member: 1764Members
    edited December 2002
    if you carefully think about it, instead of coming straight to the forums mad after getting owned by it...

    the muzzle flash is a disadvantage, but not a fatal one, if you are smart, a marine can try to fire in short bursts or not let skulks come from the right, or use the pistol. A smart skulk can try to take advantage of this by attacking from the "blind spot" this creates. I think it a good bout that skulk should win for thinking that much.

    Since the marine has such a disadvantage, the teeth are a counter. If you are a marine and figure out a good way to exploit teeth in the way, gg to you sir.

    this concludes my serious post on the matter, please go back to bickering now, so i can go back to my casual quick witted sarcastic replies <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->

    oh yeah and i forgot to add, gj monkey for helping make this great game; that more than gives you the right to be quick tempered about it
  • BathroomMonkeyBathroomMonkey Feces-hurling Monkey Boy Join Date: 2002-01-25 Member: 78Members, Retired Developer, NS1 Playtester, Contributor
    edited December 2002
    <!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I want my money. You can ship it to... <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    That was in response to a compliment, so it wasn't <i>inherently</i> nice.

    It could have been phony posturing, for all you know. And to keep you from that ten bucks, that's exactly what I'm going to say it was.

    Yup. <b>Phony</b>.

    edit:
    <!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->that more than gives you the right to be quick tempered about it <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    I'm not quick tempered! The first, second, third, fourth, fifth, sixth, seventh, eight, ninth, tenth, eleventh threads on these subjects, I could deal with them. Well, even the twelfth and thirteenth didn't bother me that much. But come on! At some point, there's only so much fresh debate . . .
  • Spyder_MonkeySpyder_Monkey Vampire-Ninja-Monkey Join Date: 2002-01-24 Member: 8Members, NS1 Playtester, Contributor
    You're still a second-rate monkey as far as I'm concerned. <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo-->

    As for this thread.. I can understand both sides. This can be thought of as a minor annoyance to players, but it has been brought up many times. This post isn't going to be the ONE that makes the difference. <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo-->
  • SpamuraiSpamurai Join Date: 2002-11-06 Member: 7242Members
    Adding 3 simple scripted lines to a CFG fix both, muzzle flash AND the Skulk teeth problem. Its all a matter of knowing how to fix your problem.
  • SniperSkunkSniperSkunk Join Date: 2002-11-07 Member: 7644Members
    I played a game without the muzzle flashes once.

    It felt weird, looked weird, and didn't improve my skills at all. I killed just as many dumb little aliens that run straight towards me as ever.

    So I put them back, and noticed no change whatsoever.

    Besides, all the arguments are stupid anyways. "What about a muzzle suppressor?"

    What if the technology used to accelerate the bullets into firing velocity is wholly different? What if it uses plasma or some other type of superheated material for the explosive force used to fire the bullet? Something that actually needs to vent out the flames like the flashes from unsuppressed weaponry? Is that a more viable explanation (I don't know guns, but this excuse for keeping the flash is just as stupid as the excuses to remove it).

    Leave the flashes. CHANGE THE CROSSHAIRS! <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
  • DantesDantes Join Date: 2002-11-28 Member: 10127Members
    Ruri

    I agree with you 100 percent, the muzzle flash is enormous. I mean the lmg one is twice as big as the HMG one. And the skulk teeth could be fixed by speeding up the bite animation.

    I think these could both be very easily remedied.

    What I don't understand is why a developer would immediately post, crushing the idea. You weren't saying your opinion was the only one that counted, you infact welcomed the opinions of others. The dev team did a great job, and NS is a great game, but devs seem to be real <b>touchy</b> about every idea submitted.

    We aren't saying their game is bad, or being ungrateful, we are trying to help them make it better. If people keep posting on this topic obviously many people feel it needs work.

    My 2 bits

    -Dantes
  • sLaMsLaM Join Date: 2002-11-28 Member: 10172Members
    <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='confused.gif'><!--endemo--> It would be so nice if we could just change BOTH the flash and the skulk teeth and be done with this whole stupid argument. <!--emo&::asrifle::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/asrifle.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='asrifle.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--emo&::skulk::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/skulk.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='skulk.gif'><!--endemo-->
  • RuriRuri Join Date: 2002-11-02 Member: 4709Members
    Spamurai, as of now this is considered cheating, and r_drawviewmodel will be locked to 1 in upcoming an patch. My argument is that this will not need to be locked if there are no gun model obstructions in the first place.

    Also my machine can easily handle HL at 1600x1200 (gun flash scales with resolution). So these problems are virtually non-exsistant for me. But I am still not afraid to voice my opinion that the obstructions should be removed.

    And to the devs, if you are going to use your time to go in and ensure that the flash scales, why not lessen the flash instead?
  • BathroomMonkeyBathroomMonkey Feces-hurling Monkey Boy Join Date: 2002-01-25 Member: 78Members, Retired Developer, NS1 Playtester, Contributor
    edited December 2002
    <!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->but devs seem to be real touchy about every idea submitted<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    Wait one sec . . . first, don't judge all devs by me. I am loud and irritating. We all have our quirks.

    Second, this isn't the first time this has been discussed. Far from it. It isn't even the first time <i>this day</i>. Firing up a fresh thread as a way of saying 'look how important this is, it must be changed' is just plain obnoxious.

    This isn't just knee jerk touchy dev-itis. <b>Trust</b> me.
  • othellothell Join Date: 2002-11-02 Member: 4183Members, NS1 Playtester, Contributor
    <!--QuoteBegin--Ruri+Dec 14 2002, 03:35 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Ruri @ Dec 14 2002, 03:35 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->If it is in there for balance reasons, then make sufficient changes to both sides in order to keep balance.

    But I really don't think anyone here feels these models are not visually imparing. If that is the case, then why have a "problem" for both sides in the name of balance? Just remove it from both sides, and won't it remain balanced?

    Using custom gun models is only a temporary fix, since most servers will evetually require all model compliance.

    And ROFL @ CForrester<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Do you realize how short sighted this really is? Removing these visual obstructions would distract from the atmosphere significantly as well as removing a certain element of SKILL ("OMG, he used the 's' word!!"). Get real people. Removing it for both sides won't necessarily balance anything out. In all likelihood it'll create other problems that are not worth the effort.

    The muzzle flash and jaw closing are not real problems. They are easily overcome if you'd actually practice instead of b*tch and moan over every little thing that makes your game difficult (in your eyes).

    Skill... it's more than just a great idea!
  • DantesDantes Join Date: 2002-11-28 Member: 10127Members
    I don't think that the muzzle flash should be removed at all, I just think it should be scaled down a tad.
  • SpamuraiSpamurai Join Date: 2002-11-06 Member: 7242Members
    Whatever. They can lock the whole damn console for all I care. The statement still remains.



    BTW, My form of vision impairment can make the Muzzle Flash of the LMG, or the Slideshow effect of the Skulk Teeth a handicap that cripples the game into something unfun. So trend lightly please with dictorian attempts at controlling how the game is veiwed and played.
  • NimbusNimbus Join Date: 2002-11-06 Member: 7239Members
    <!--QuoteBegin--BathroomMonkey+Dec 14 2002, 03:17 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (BathroomMonkey @ Dec 14 2002, 03:17 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->If by 'rallying an effort' you mean 'tossing out needless new posts when others already exist on the same exact subject one or two threads down on the very same page', then by all means, go ahead. It's a pretty good way to be obnoxious and hurt your cause.

    <!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->audacity<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    Let's talk about this word. Audacity . . . like, the audacity to <b>demand</b> things of this game? Screw it. Flame away, but I've been around these Damn boards for long enough to know that for every opinion that someone posts, there are <b>always</b> people who oppose it. There are <b>always</b> people who agree with it. And there are <b>always</b> people who are neutral about it. Frankly, I'm just absolutely sick of the people that saunter in here saying how the devs are high-horse riding, ignorant idiots <i>unless</i> they <b>immediately</b> capitulate to their demands. Because even if people have different opinions, they're <b>wrong</b>, and you're right.

    Hell, I am all for the community, but I <b>refuse</b> to listen to someone who thinks that their opinion is the only one that matters on a subject.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    It's not entirely fair to be mad at this guy for what other people have posted on the subject. There will ALWAYS be people doing what you described, it's the nature of the internet. No reason to get flustered about this and bring it into every single discussion. Sure he made an opinionated post with "audacious" language, but so what? I wish every post could be as coherent as this. He made a logical post and asked for a rational discussion. Instead he gets replies like "sigh" and anger at bringing this up again.

    And you know what? I haven't seen a single logical reason for the extremity of the visual impairment, all I see are knee-jerk reactions like: "It's balance" and "It's for realism." When people question the balance of this and say it isn't nescessary to have this since it impairs both marines and aliens, people say it's for realism or aesthetics because it looks neat. When people question the realism and say real guns don't do this and that more often than not creatures keep their eyes outside of their mouthes, people respond by saying it's for balance, and that people shouldn't get all hyped up on this "reality" thing.

    Anyways, those are just my thoughts. (hey, everyone's saying that, I just wanted to be popular) Could someone please give a logical reason why there must be such an extreme visual impairment for BOTH sides?
  • SpamuraiSpamurai Join Date: 2002-11-06 Member: 7242Members
    <!--QuoteBegin--othell+Dec 14 2002, 03:57 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (othell @ Dec 14 2002, 03:57 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--><!--QuoteBegin--Ruri+Dec 14 2002, 03:35 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Ruri @ Dec 14 2002, 03:35 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->If it is in there for balance reasons, then make sufficient changes to both sides in order to keep balance.

    But I really don't think anyone here feels these models are not visually imparing.  If that is the case, then why have a "problem" for both sides in the name of balance?  Just remove it from both sides, and won't it remain balanced?

    Using custom gun models is only a temporary fix, since most servers will evetually require all model compliance.

    And ROFL @ CForrester<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Do you realize how short sighted this really is? Removing these visual obstructions would distract from the atmosphere significantly as well as removing a certain element of SKILL ("OMG, he used the 's' word!!"). Get real people. Removing it for both sides won't necessarily balance anything out. In all likelihood it'll create other problems that are not worth the effort.

    The muzzle flash and jaw closing are not real problems. They are easily overcome if you'd actually practice instead of b*tch and moan over every little thing that makes your game difficult (in your eyes).

    Skill... it's more than just a great idea!<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Hrm, this can't be good... Othello and I both stand on the same side of <i>"The Line"</i> in this thread....
This discussion has been closed.