<!--quoteo(post=1776835:date=Jul 3 2010, 11:16 AM:name=Karba)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Karba @ Jul 3 2010, 11:16 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1776835"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Let's see what Structures and characters left to be seen: sentry turret, siege turret, observatory,prototype lab,builder bot, hmg,heavy....defense/movement/sens chambers,fade,.....at 1-2 weeks per structure=sorry no alpha this summer<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
If you haven't figured it out yet then I should tell you that they're not going to make reveals on every single feature of the game. That would be stupid. Also most of what you listed is already done (from what UW is saying). They also stated that they're working on the heavy and it's one of the last things they need to do.
Anyways, I really like the hydra but here are my criticisms:
- I assume the weird thing that it does when it's done growing is just a cycle between alert animation and idle animation, I'm not 100% how it's supposed to be but I prefer if the hydras go into alert mode that they stay in the alert mode idle animation until the threat is gone. As in: perking up, needles extending, more wild swaying of the heads, etc. Not bobbing from total idleness to alert and back again.
- I don't like how the gorge plants the hydras. I just don't like the whole idea of vomiting it out at all. Maybe if the gorge looked different, but it already looks like some fat lazy doglike thing. So vomiting it out perpetuates the fat lazy beergut idea, which would probably make me feel less like some kind of alien engineer and more like some fat lazy ass walking around vomiting stuff out that happens to be useful.
So the next thing to get presented are the Turrets? I mean, you've literally given us a Detail about the Rine-Turrets having a firing-Cone, instead of shooting at everything within Range. That also brings me to annother Point, that those Turrets need to deal more Damage due to them being reduced to where they Fire.
Also Marines might be given the Ability, to use a Turret in order to rotate it to a new direction to accomodate the new Change in the Turrets-mechanics.
I'd like to see silghtly different animations of the same model for ns2's alien buildings - organic creatures never behave exactly the same way...
It shouldnt be too much work to create more animations out of this one for the very same model, maybe one tentarcle should cower down instead of standing up straight like the other two etc etc...
You could make about 10 to 15 different idle animations that all start and end in the same pose and then mix them up randomly (the animations should have different lengths to make it really look random).
This way oc farms and organic buildings in general would look really organic and not like a gene-manipulated/plastic-plantation... ;)
This is not supposed to be bad critic about the current animation or model btw, they look great! I just want to point out that the two hydras look and behave exactly the same way...
I bet none of the core game systems (dynamic infestation, rine and alien commanders, power grid) are already in place if they are still willing to waste time on stupid reveal videos such as this one.
Also, yeah they are pretty phallic. I think ns takes a lot of cues from the design of alien though, in which EVERYTYHING was some kind of sexual perversion (penis mouthed aliens, vagina facehuggers, phallus alien chestbursters, aliens with gigantic dongs for heads etc.) That's great, and what makes it so scary. they don't just kill you, the <i>rape your face</i>, too.
The model viewer previews show transparency on the outer leafs, but ingame video seems not to have any transparency at all. How come?
I also noticed that the mouth (bitecam) closes completly on a miss, but not on a hit. I really like this, hope it's not just an illusion due to some missing frames.
The only thing I noticed is that they shouldn't be synced up. Unless that was just a random chance type thing.
The urge for marines to dance with the field of Hydras that are synced up SHOULD BE STOPPED! Or I can already see marine moonwalk with hydras dancing in background. Billy Jean is not my lover. She's just a gorge who claims that I am the one!!!
Skulk bite/HUD/Gorge Run/Gorge Puke/Whatever Else ... All look amazing.
Things like running into the Hydra, running over the hydra, jumping on the hydra(the collision model should be a cone) all need to be tested eventually and I look forward to messing with it. How will the skip between attack animation and active animation look. These kind of things.
Please sharpen up the game so it isn't as choppy though... A reveal of just the game not being choppy would make me wet myself.
Just wish we got to see the attack animation! It looks like it would be deadly! Even if you don't show the projectiles yet... Projectiles could cause problems.
<!--quoteo(post=1776809:date=Jul 3 2010, 03:09 AM:name=Phlash)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Phlash @ Jul 3 2010, 03:09 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1776809"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->why the name Hydra? I know NS is heavily influenced by Starcraft, but that's a pretty blatant name ripoff. I'm sure you guys could come up with something original that's not in use by SC. I'm all for influences from good games but names are something that I don't think should just be ripped. Just my 2 cents.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lernaean_Hydra" target="_blank">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lernaean_Hydra</a> "was an ancient nameless serpent-like chthonic water beast (as its name evinces) that possessed seven heads"
It's absurd to say that they are ripping of Starcraft by taking a prefix of a unit that in no way resembles a hydra. The unit here clearly resembles one.
Sadly I'm pretty sure they had to have this conversation internally:
Cory: Lets call it "upside down tripod thingy" Matt: I think Hydra is better. Flayra: They're going to think we stole it from Starcraft though. Matt: But that is just crazy. That's like saying if we have stars and call them stars, we stole that from STARcraft. Cory: *adjusts top hat* Indeed, sir, indeed.
why the name Hydra? I know NS is heavily influenced by Starcraft, but that's a pretty blatant name ripoff. I'm sure you guys could come up with something original that's not in use by SC. I'm all for influences from good games but names are something that I don't think should just be ripped. Just my 2 cents.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Hydra because it has multiple heads...
aeroripperJoin Date: 2005-02-25Member: 42471NS1 Playtester, Forum Moderators, Constellation
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->- I don't like how the gorge plants the hydras. I just don't like the whole idea of vomiting it out at all. Maybe if the gorge looked different, but it already looks like some fat lazy doglike thing. So vomiting it out perpetuates the fat lazy beergut idea, which would probably make me feel less like some kind of alien engineer and more like some fat lazy ass walking around vomiting stuff out that happens to be useful.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
It'd look better if it started as a glowing blob on the ground, then infestation starts growing out from it and the hydra starts growing from there (reference gorge concept). I'm sure the gorge is still missing some particle effects for the puking animation as well to tie it all together nicely. I imagine a lot of these things are small polish details but the basic game play mechanic is there and working well and is probably what's most important at this stage.
As mentioned before, in the video the Hydra is actually going into alert mode right away after being built, instead of playing its normal idle animation which just has the tentacles slowly bobbing and swaying a bit. The alert mode animation in the video is still a work in progress, and it also is going to get a looping version of it added, so that the tentacles won't constantly be jumping up and down the way it is now.
<!--quoteo(post=1776860:date=Jul 3 2010, 04:26 PM:name=aeroripper)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (aeroripper @ Jul 3 2010, 04:26 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1776860"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I'm sure the gorge is still missing some particle effects for the puking animation as well to tie it all together nicely.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Actually, if you look closely the first time the Gorge pukes up a Hydra there is a particle effect for it, it is just timed to happen too early at the moment, so you don't really notice it. But stuff like that will be fixed when we do a polish pass on these things.
I really liked the new OC! Looks delicate but deadly. I just have one question. What kind of damage does it deal? I forgot the name of all the damage types and I am too lazy to go look it up.
I'm still concerned about how the two hydras seem to be perfectly in sync with their animation :( Is that just coincidence? Because I think that it would look horrible if all hydras pulse exactly the same way when they're spammed.
<!--quoteo(post=1776862:date=Jul 3 2010, 12:44 PM:name=Phaeton)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Phaeton @ Jul 3 2010, 12:44 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1776862"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I really liked the new OC! Looks delicate but deadly. I just have one question. What kind of damage does it deal? I forgot the name of all the damage types and I am too lazy to go look it up.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I'd guess that it will be fairly low generic damage as having a base structure costing too much will prohibit it's use in the early game, but a somewhat costly upgrade will probably let it be more useful late game, perhaps increase or changing its initial generic damage type to piercing in order to be more effective mid-late game.
I know some people may think that because NS2 has maps so tight, that it's not hard to find a wall and therefore place a turret with its back to a wall to effectively bypass the turret-cone-o-fire nerfing. But what happens in a big room. If you place a circle of turrets to cover all directions and a fade or gorge gets to the center of the turret farm and effortlessly dismantles it?
Maybe i shouldn't care about this because their's still a chance a marine turret can hit something in a big room. But what chance does a hydra thing have! Don't tell me that gorges will now drop down thousands of hydra to make the floor of a room lethal! xD. Well i guess that's why we have flamethrowers and nerve gas >:D
Btw those plant things are very disturbing to look at. The mere presence of one is justification to burn the room!!!! :P
I'm going to sound like a moaning b'stard here, but i'm just hoping NS2 gets released while i'm still able to play it :-} (once you're the wrong side of 40, your eyes start to deteriorate, I suffer from a bit of RSI / carpal tunnel syndrome, dodgy elbows etc.)
On the other hand, if it's as intense to play as the original, it might be the key to my wife getting my pension :-} (i've got high blood pressure too, so it might see me off !)
...so a quick note to the devs: If you want another playtester while i'm still able... :-}
<!--quoteo(post=1776872:date=Jul 3 2010, 08:27 PM:name=Kurrine)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Kurrine @ Jul 3 2010, 08:27 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1776872"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Okay, so I suppose I need clarity on this, so for the turrets, is it a cone of fire? or a cone firing arc? or both?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--quoteo(post=0:date=:name=Hydra reveal)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Hydra reveal)</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Unlike the marine sentry turrets, which have a cone of fire, the Hydras unleash their spikes in all directions, doing damage to anything within a certain spherical range.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Did you read the reveal? Can't be made any clearer than that. ;)
How will Hydras affect Skulk movement on walls and ceilings? Will the Skulk attach to the Hydra and move around it (which could look awkward) or will he just go through it?
How will Hydras affect Skulk movement on walls and ceilings? Will the Skulk attach to the Hydra and move around it (which could look awkward) or will he just go through it?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I would think the skulk can't climb on it or pass through it. He'd just have to move around it.
Comments
If you haven't figured it out yet then I should tell you that they're not going to make reveals on every single feature of the game. That would be stupid. Also most of what you listed is already done (from what UW is saying). They also stated that they're working on the heavy and it's one of the last things they need to do.
Anyways, I really like the hydra but here are my criticisms:
- I assume the weird thing that it does when it's done growing is just a cycle between alert animation and idle animation, I'm not 100% how it's supposed to be but I prefer if the hydras go into alert mode that they stay in the alert mode idle animation until the threat is gone. As in: perking up, needles extending, more wild swaying of the heads, etc. Not bobbing from total idleness to alert and back again.
- I don't like how the gorge plants the hydras. I just don't like the whole idea of vomiting it out at all. Maybe if the gorge looked different, but it already looks like some fat lazy doglike thing. So vomiting it out perpetuates the fat lazy beergut idea, which would probably make me feel less like some kind of alien engineer and more like some fat lazy ass walking around vomiting stuff out that happens to be useful.
I mean, you've literally given us a Detail about the Rine-Turrets having a firing-Cone, instead of shooting at everything within Range.
That also brings me to annother Point, that those Turrets need to deal more Damage due to them being reduced to where they Fire.
Also Marines might be given the Ability, to use a Turret in order to rotate it to a new direction to accomodate the new Change in the Turrets-mechanics.
It shouldnt be too much work to create more animations out of this one for the very same model, maybe one tentarcle should cower down instead of standing up straight like the other two etc etc...
You could make about 10 to 15 different idle animations that all start and end in the same pose and then mix them up randomly (the animations should have different lengths to make it really look random).
This way oc farms and organic buildings in general would look really organic and not like a gene-manipulated/plastic-plantation... ;)
This is not supposed to be bad critic about the current animation or model btw, they look great! I just want to point out that the two hydras look and behave exactly the same way...
Also, yeah they are pretty phallic. I think ns takes a lot of cues from the design of alien though, in which EVERYTYHING was some kind of sexual perversion (penis mouthed aliens, vagina facehuggers, phallus alien chestbursters, aliens with gigantic dongs for heads etc.) That's great, and what makes it so scary. they don't just kill you, the <i>rape your face</i>, too.
I also noticed that the mouth (bitecam) closes completly on a miss, but not on a hit. I really like this, hope it's not just an illusion due to some missing frames.
The urge for marines to dance with the field of Hydras that are synced up SHOULD BE STOPPED! Or I can already see marine moonwalk with hydras dancing in background. Billy Jean is not my lover. She's just a gorge who claims that I am the one!!!
Skulk bite/HUD/Gorge Run/Gorge Puke/Whatever Else ... All look amazing.
Things like running into the Hydra, running over the hydra, jumping on the hydra(the collision model should be a cone) all need to be tested eventually and I look forward to messing with it. How will the skip between attack animation and active animation look. These kind of things.
Please sharpen up the game so it isn't as choppy though... A reveal of just the game not being choppy would make me wet myself.
Just wish we got to see the attack animation! It looks like it would be deadly! Even if you don't show the projectiles yet... Projectiles could cause problems.
<a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lernaean_Hydra" target="_blank">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lernaean_Hydra</a>
"was an ancient nameless serpent-like chthonic water beast (as its name evinces) that possessed seven heads"
It's absurd to say that they are ripping of Starcraft by taking a prefix of a unit that in no way resembles a hydra. The unit here clearly resembles one.
Sadly I'm pretty sure they had to have this conversation internally:
Cory: Lets call it "upside down tripod thingy"
Matt: I think Hydra is better.
Flayra: They're going to think we stole it from Starcraft though.
Matt: But that is just crazy. That's like saying if we have stars and call them stars, we stole that from STARcraft.
Cory: *adjusts top hat* Indeed, sir, indeed.
but...
why the name Hydra? I know NS is heavily influenced by Starcraft, but that's a pretty blatant name ripoff. I'm sure you guys could come up with something original that's not in use by SC. I'm all for influences from good games but names are something that I don't think should just be ripped. Just my 2 cents.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Hydra because it has multiple heads...
Interesting <i>theory</i>...
Obvius theory is obvius.
It'd look better if it started as a glowing blob on the ground, then infestation starts growing out from it and the hydra starts growing from there (reference gorge concept). I'm sure the gorge is still missing some particle effects for the puking animation as well to tie it all together nicely. I imagine a lot of these things are small polish details but the basic game play mechanic is there and working well and is probably what's most important at this stage.
<!--quoteo(post=1776860:date=Jul 3 2010, 04:26 PM:name=aeroripper)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (aeroripper @ Jul 3 2010, 04:26 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1776860"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I'm sure the gorge is still missing some particle effects for the puking animation as well to tie it all together nicely.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Actually, if you look closely the first time the Gorge pukes up a Hydra there is a particle effect for it, it is just timed to happen too early at the moment, so you don't really notice it. But stuff like that will be fixed when we do a polish pass on these things.
--Cory
Is that just coincidence? Because I think that it would look horrible if all hydras pulse exactly the same way when they're spammed.
I'd guess that it will be fairly low generic damage as having a base structure costing too much will prohibit it's use in the early game, but a somewhat costly upgrade will probably let it be more useful late game, perhaps increase or changing its initial generic damage type to piercing in order to be more effective mid-late game.
<!--quoteo(post=1776854:date=Jul 3 2010, 10:41 AM:name=Drown)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Drown @ Jul 3 2010, 10:41 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1776854"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Cory: *adjusts top hat* Indeed, sir, indeed.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Loving the idea of Cory wearing a top hat. However, be careful with not becoming too obsessed with hats. ;)
Maybe i shouldn't care about this because their's still a chance a marine turret can hit something in a big room. But what chance does a hydra thing have! Don't tell me that gorges will now drop down thousands of hydra to make the floor of a room lethal! xD. Well i guess that's why we have flamethrowers and nerve gas >:D
Btw those plant things are very disturbing to look at. The mere presence of one is justification to burn the room!!!! :P
On the other hand, if it's as intense to play as the original, it might be the key to my wife getting my pension :-} (i've got high blood pressure too, so it might see me off !)
...so a quick note to the devs: If you want another playtester while i'm still able... :-}
<!--quoteo(post=0:date=:name=Hydra reveal)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Hydra reveal)</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Unlike the marine sentry turrets, which have a cone of fire, the Hydras unleash their spikes in all directions, doing damage to anything within a certain spherical range.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Did you read the reveal? Can't be made any clearer than that. ;)
Room full o' ###### here, need a GL!
How will Hydras affect Skulk movement on walls and ceilings? Will the Skulk attach to the Hydra and move around it (which could look awkward) or will he just go through it?
How will Hydras affect Skulk movement on walls and ceilings? Will the Skulk attach to the Hydra and move around it (which could look awkward) or will he just go through it?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I would think the skulk can't climb on it or pass through it. He'd just have to move around it.