<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Look's like a great way to outsource mapping work unto the people who pre-ordered. Brilliant. By how much do you think the Spark Editor will minimize your workload?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Which isnt bad at all, I guess there are loads of ppl who would like to help... my mapping skills suck though but I'm trying ;)
Mr. EpicJoin Date: 2003-08-01Member: 18660Members, Constellation
edited November 2009
<!--quoteo(post=1739781:date=Nov 24 2009, 01:43 PM:name=TheLord)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (TheLord @ Nov 24 2009, 01:43 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1739781"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Which isnt bad at all, I guess there are loads of ppl who would like to help... my mapping skills suck though but I'm trying ;)<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> and has been proven to be highly rewarding for ALL involved, ns1 maps are a great example of this... but now if your map makes it into the game you will have had your work in a shipped product. HUGE reward for mappers, great for players, and great for UW to make the best game possible. WIN, WIN, WIN.
<!--quoteo(post=1739796:date=Nov 24 2009, 12:07 PM:name=Sops)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Sops @ Nov 24 2009, 12:07 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1739796"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->So can you load the game and walk around the level that you have designed?
I haven't seen anything about that posted.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->No, but for now at least you can hold right click and press WASD keys to fly through your map.
<!--quoteo(post=1739796:date=Nov 24 2009, 06:07 PM:name=Sops)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Sops @ Nov 24 2009, 06:07 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1739796"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->So can you load the game and walk around the level that you have designed?
I haven't seen anything about that posted.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Nope. Your limited to the editors camera for the time being.
Say you are using "models\props\refinery\refinery_ventmods_exitwide.model" to make a vent opening for players to crawl through. How could you use the rectangle tool to create the vent? Right now I can estimate the size, but I would like to be able to snap to points on the model to get the exact size of the opening. Or at least be able to measure the size of the opening and then direct input the size of the rectangle. Even then I would never know if the vent was perfectly aligned with the opening. I HATE eyeballing!
<!--quoteo(post=1739807:date=Nov 24 2009, 06:21 PM:name=Lucid)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Lucid @ Nov 24 2009, 06:21 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1739807"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Say you are using "models\props\refinery\refinery_ventmods_exitwide.model" to make a vent opening for players to crawl through. How could you use the rectangle tool to create the vent? Right now I can estimate the size, but I would like to be able to snap to points on the model to get the exact size of the opening. Or at least be able to measure the size of the opening and then direct input the size of the rectangle. Even then I would never know if the vent was perfectly aligned with the opening. I HATE eyeballing!<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You could try importing the prop, snap it to the grid, then alter the grid size until it fits perfectly(if it doe's), then add you'll know the dimensions to make using the rectangle tool.
<!--quoteo(post=1739339:date=Nov 24 2009, 01:08 AM:name=BreadMan)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (BreadMan @ Nov 24 2009, 01:08 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1739339"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->The best thing you can do to avoid this until it's fixed is only draw stuff in the 3d view, as stuff drawn in the 2D views ends up waaay on the edge of the map. However if you can spot it with your camera and select it, the "z" key will be your friend (works in all views, 2d and 3d).<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I actually figured out a "workaround" for this last night. Select All and then Zoom to Selected. That avoids the excessive scrolling trying to get back to the map.
I am still wondering if there's any BUS in here; under the hood as it were. ;)
Btw, the Editor takes a damn lot of gfx Power, it uses my HD4850 for 45 - 80% ... and I dont have many details in the map yet.. oO - and another 10-25% (depending on one or 4 viewports) of my Q6600@3,2GHz... thought it would take much less, its actually a bit laggy with 4 viewports open...
I have questions: I understand it's in early stage. But is dev thaught about it?
*Any clue about the 'puppet speed'? A map can be beautiful but ultimatly unplayable just because it takes an hour to get to a 'spot'. A walkthrough option will do. Like in Farcry. Editing, then walk into it as if it was the real game.
*Put down that thing! Sometime we just put some crates and stuff. But just a little bit higher than it should be. So the crate is hoovering. Select thing and make shift+G(ravity). can put'em on floor (or any surface). Enhancing it by... move to top thing etc...
*Hmmm ranges/size. Siege canon probably have a range.. obviously. Having a dummy shape/object to be able to see if a hive is siegeable from point X or Y or both will help. Everybody remember NS_Bast (1.04)... Or making sure vents aren't too thin or big will help too.
*Copy/paste & connect. It sure will do the trick. Keeping an easy way to produce detailled stuff. One time is enough for a hallways, pillars, or doors. Having a fast way for doing these things save more time for dedicated decoration and, if wanted, special details. By that i mean you have 3 cloned door. Adding a little something to each one will prevent too much repetition, but keep it fast. Connecting will be the 'touchy' part but clearly not imposible as i see 'grid snap' is a key word over here.
*Importing 3D objects Making a simple volume (in a 3D editor) but more complex than a parallepiped, should be aviable. It can bring some unique touch for room shapes. You only have to apply some texture on it to make the room. It's faster than a editor. And sometime we f***ing need that. HL-Cubism is far in the past now.
Played around with light and how it looks on the different materials and it looks awesome. The editor is quite handy, but also error-prone. In certain camera angles all lights suddenly go black and the texture lock button shown in the video tutorial is missing for me. Also the whole texture application system is crap at this point, but it is mentioned in one of the video tutorials that it is being worked on, so alright. Other than that I miss better accessability to moving the camera. More Valve Hammer Editor like.
Well I have to say that so far, this is one of the easiest mapping tools I've ever seen. My major question is when this is all done, will the editor be completely self contained, or will we need to be doing a fair amount of exporting to Max/whatever 3d program, to apply normal maps and whatnot? Never really done mapping and I hate hammer so much I gave up in about 5 min :P But for the mod I test on (Earth's Special Forces), we do everything with VBO and pretty much do everything via Max. Just curious what the end design is going to look like.
I really want to start making a serious map for this game, but with the lack of gameplay documentation its pretty difficult :P I have no idea what constraints there are to map design to make it compatible with the power grid system, or how many res nodes there need to be, or how far to nearest power grid node. Just some things that would be nice to have for those of us that want to really design a usable map :D
<!--quoteo(post=1739863:date=Nov 25 2009, 05:37 AM:name=TheLord)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (TheLord @ Nov 25 2009, 05:37 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1739863"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Btw, the Editor takes a damn lot of gfx Power, it uses my HD4850 for 45 - 80% ... and I dont have many details in the map yet.. oO - and another 10-25% (depending on one or 4 viewports) of my Q6600@3,2GHz... thought it would take much less, its actually a bit laggy with 4 viewports open...<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> That's because the editor is actually running ON the game engine. Not running seperately where you then have to compile before loading it up in a game engine.
<!--quoteo(post=1739944:date=Nov 25 2009, 07:58 AM:name=JAmazon)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (JAmazon @ Nov 25 2009, 07:58 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1739944"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I really want to start making a serious map for this game, but with the lack of gameplay documentation its pretty difficult :P I have no idea what constraints there are to map design to make it compatible with the power grid system, or how many res nodes there need to be, or how far to nearest power grid node. Just some things that would be nice to have for those of us that want to really design a usable map :D<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> I think all of that functionality is not yet in the game. When it is I believe you will find you have entities that you can place and tie to each other saying "if point C is active, then point D is active (or can be)" etc.
Keep in mind the basis behind how the system works and build around that, if you have some idea... then you can build a map.
But at the least start something and learn the quirks... that's what most people are doing and being a pre-alpha it's not intended for "serious" map making at this stage...
1. The editor is not optimized, at all. UWE decided to get it into your hands sooner and work on the polish later. You *will* see performance gains when the time comes. This is a real alpha, not like a google beta which is almost done :P
2. They are not expecting any serious map to be made with it yet. More work on the editor needs to be done. By releasing it, they are able to work out many of the bugs and crashes and add requested features before fully releasing it. And you get to play around :) When the time comes to start focusing on making full maps, the needed information will be released.
is there any way to add a flipped face to an object? ive noticed that when creating objects in the air that the bottom usually has no face. and you can see through it. and when i use the rectangle tool or line tool it still does not make a face. is there anyway to add a face to the bottom of something?
<!--quoteo(post=1739967:date=Nov 24 2009, 05:22 PM:name=Comprox)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Comprox @ Nov 24 2009, 05:22 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1739967"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->To help Daworm with the questions:
1. The editor is not optimized, at all. UWE decided to get it into your hands sooner and work on the polish later. You *will* see performance gains when the time comes. This is a real alpha, not like a google beta which is almost done :P
2. They are not expecting any serious map to be made with it yet. More work on the editor needs to be done. By releasing it, they are able to work out many of the bugs and crashes and add requested features before fully releasing it. And you get to play around :) When the time comes to start focusing on making full maps, the needed information will be released.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Right. Basically we're just getting a taste of whats to come, while helping UWE do some broader testing then their internal work alone could accomplish.
Also, the updater ran flawlessly. I'm digging the Perspective camera acceleration and some entity issues I was having have been fixed. Woot for the first path in less than 24hr.
Max, please be sure to keep a full, chronological changelog for posterity.
This application has failed to start because the application configuration is incorrect. Reinstalling the application may fix this problem<!--c2--></div><!--ec2-->
Tried reinstalling but no luck :(<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--quoteo(post=1740037:date=Nov 24 2009, 07:09 PM:name=Sinnister81)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Sinnister81 @ Nov 24 2009, 07:09 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1740037"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Im having the same problem can someone help?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Please try reading the reply to the problem you Quoted... <a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/index.php?showtopic=108124" target="_blank">http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/in...howtopic=108124</a>
I heard someone complaining about not being able to carve a wall to make a door prefab, so <a href="http://eagle.undo.it:8083/download/?id=7&act=url" target="_blank">prefab</a>. The way I did it was put the door in the wall, shift it 1 inch to the right of where I wanted it, used the line tool to trace the left side, and repeat vice versa for the right side. Hopefully they have something up their sleeves to make this easier.
I'm sure you're already working on these features - they are pretty obvious: -Modifier to select only vertices (Vertex manipulation, anyone?) -Modifier to select only entities -Allow editing of multiple entities simultaneously -Brushes aren't saved in layers and thus can't be hidden -Include prefabs of all the light fixtures with light entities - it would be a good starting point for a prefab system
<!--quoteo(post=1740037:date=Nov 24 2009, 07:09 PM:name=Sinnister81)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Sinnister81 @ Nov 24 2009, 07:09 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1740037"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Im having the same problem can someone help?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Try reading this thread <a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/in...howtopic=108124" target="_blank">http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/in...howtopic=108124</a>
Also, Max recently posted saying it was fixed in the patch. Try to update.
<!--quoteo(post=1740109:date=Nov 25 2009, 12:28 PM:name=Mormy)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Mormy @ Nov 25 2009, 12:28 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1740109"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->there should be a test map by pressing a button and you walk thought it to test if it all works<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> "should" but isn't.
Just right-click and use WASD. Essentially the same thing.
Keep in mind pre-alpha for map editor, not intended for making working maps but to test it and get bugs so max and co. can fix.
Comments
Which isnt bad at all, I guess there are loads of ppl who would like to help... my mapping skills suck though but I'm trying ;)
and has been proven to be highly rewarding for ALL involved, ns1 maps are a great example of this... but now if your map makes it into the game you will have had your work in a shipped product. HUGE reward for mappers, great for players, and great for UW to make the best game possible. WIN, WIN, WIN.
I haven't seen anything about that posted.
I haven't seen anything about that posted.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->No, but for now at least you can hold right click and press WASD keys to fly through your map.
I haven't seen anything about that posted.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Nope. Your limited to the editors camera for the time being.
You could try importing the prop, snap it to the grid, then alter the grid size until it fits perfectly(if it doe's), then add you'll know the dimensions to make using the rectangle tool.
I actually figured out a "workaround" for this last night. Select All and then Zoom to Selected. That avoids the excessive scrolling trying to get back to the map.
I am still wondering if there's any BUS in here; under the hood as it were. ;)
I have questions:
I understand it's in early stage. But is dev thaught about it?
*Any clue about the 'puppet speed'? A map can be beautiful but ultimatly unplayable just because it takes an hour to get to a 'spot'. A walkthrough option will do. Like in Farcry. Editing, then walk into it as if it was the real game.
*Put down that thing!
Sometime we just put some crates and stuff. But just a little bit higher than it should be. So the crate is hoovering. Select thing and make shift+G(ravity). can put'em on floor (or any surface). Enhancing it by... move to top thing etc...
*Hmmm ranges/size.
Siege canon probably have a range.. obviously. Having a dummy shape/object to be able to see if a hive is siegeable from point X or Y or both will help. Everybody remember NS_Bast (1.04)... Or making sure vents aren't too thin or big will help too.
*Copy/paste & connect.
It sure will do the trick. Keeping an easy way to produce detailled stuff. One time is enough for a hallways, pillars, or doors. Having a fast way for doing these things save more time for dedicated decoration and, if wanted, special details. By that i mean you have 3 cloned door. Adding a little something to each one will prevent too much repetition, but keep it fast. Connecting will be the 'touchy' part but clearly not imposible as i see 'grid snap' is a key word over here.
*Importing 3D objects
Making a simple volume (in a 3D editor) but more complex than a parallepiped, should be aviable. It can bring some unique touch for room shapes. You only have to apply some texture on it to make the room. It's faster than a editor. And sometime we f***ing need that. HL-Cubism is far in the past now.
That's because the editor is actually running ON the game engine.
Not running seperately where you then have to compile before loading it up in a game engine.
I think all of that functionality is not yet in the game.
When it is I believe you will find you have entities that you can place and tie to each other saying "if point C is active, then point D is active (or can be)" etc.
Keep in mind the basis behind how the system works and build around that, if you have some idea... then you can build a map.
But at the least start something and learn the quirks... that's what most people are doing and being a pre-alpha it's not intended for "serious" map making at this stage...
YOU CAN SCALE PROPS OMG!
BEST EDITOR EVER!
1. The editor is not optimized, at all. UWE decided to get it into your hands sooner and work on the polish later. You *will* see performance gains when the time comes. This is a real alpha, not like a google beta which is almost done :P
2. They are not expecting any serious map to be made with it yet. More work on the editor needs to be done. By releasing it, they are able to work out many of the bugs and crashes and add requested features before fully releasing it. And you get to play around :) When the time comes to start focusing on making full maps, the needed information will be released.
ive noticed that when creating objects in the air
that the bottom usually has no face. and you
can see through it. and when i use the rectangle tool
or line tool it still does not make a face. is there anyway
to add a face to the bottom of something?
1. The editor is not optimized, at all. UWE decided to get it into your hands sooner and work on the polish later. You *will* see performance gains when the time comes. This is a real alpha, not like a google beta which is almost done :P
2. They are not expecting any serious map to be made with it yet. More work on the editor needs to be done. By releasing it, they are able to work out many of the bugs and crashes and add requested features before fully releasing it. And you get to play around :) When the time comes to start focusing on making full maps, the needed information will be released.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Right. Basically we're just getting a taste of whats to come, while helping UWE do some broader testing then their internal work alone could accomplish.
Also, the updater ran flawlessly. I'm digging the Perspective camera acceleration and some entity issues I was having have been fixed. Woot for the first path in less than 24hr.
Max, please be sure to keep a full, chronological changelog for posterity.
objects together,
also to be able to save objects or a group
of objects for presets to be reused again
at later times. to save time on map
construction.
Been messing with the editor for a while and found some problems.. threw 'em up in the bug report page.
Just wanted to say to the dev guys - you rock!
Getting the error message:
<!--c1--><div class='codetop'>CODE</div><div class='codemain'><!--ec1-->C:\Program Files\Natural Selection 2\Editor.exe
This application has failed to start because the application configuration is incorrect. Reinstalling the application may fix this problem<!--c2--></div><!--ec2-->
Tried reinstalling but no luck :(<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Im having the same problem can someone help?
Please try reading the reply to the problem you Quoted...
<a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/index.php?showtopic=108124" target="_blank">http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/in...howtopic=108124</a>
-_-
The way I did it was put the door in the wall, shift it 1 inch to the right of where I wanted it, used the line tool to trace the left side, and repeat vice versa for the right side. Hopefully they have something up their sleeves to make this easier.
I'm sure you're already working on these features - they are pretty obvious:
-Modifier to select only vertices (Vertex manipulation, anyone?)
-Modifier to select only entities
-Allow editing of multiple entities simultaneously
-Brushes aren't saved in layers and thus can't be hidden
-Include prefabs of all the light fixtures with light entities - it would be a good starting point for a prefab system
Try reading this thread <a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/in...howtopic=108124" target="_blank">http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/in...howtopic=108124</a>
Also, Max recently posted saying it was fixed in the patch. Try to update.
"should" but isn't.
Just right-click and use WASD.
Essentially the same thing.
Keep in mind pre-alpha for map editor, not intended for making working maps but to test it and get bugs so max and co. can fix.