The argument that leapbite is bad when you want to target a specific marine in a group is just silly. If you want to hit a specific marine, make sure you leap at that marine. If anything it takes more skill in that scenario to do exactly what you want (although if you miss your intended target, you still get a hit off, so it wasn't completely wasted)
Just think about it as adding extra damage to Leap, with a forced recovery time before bite can be used (on the same order as the delay between 2 bites - don't panic about the "recovery time")
<!--quoteo(post=1733313:date=Oct 21 2009, 05:00 PM:name=monopolowa)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (monopolowa @ Oct 21 2009, 05:00 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1733313"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->The argument that leapbite is bad when you want to target a specific marine in a group is just silly. If you want to hit a specific marine, make sure you leap at that marine. If anything it takes more skill in that scenario to do exactly what you want (although if you miss your intended target, you still get a hit off, so it wasn't completely wasted)
Just think about it as adding extra damage to Leap, with a forced recovery time before bite can be used (on the same order as the delay between 2 bites - don't panic about the "recovery time")<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
the recovery time DOES matter. Can't tell you how many times I died between bites because I missed the bite due to timing or latency.
my point is that there's a delay between bites already...you would have a delay after leap bite just as you would have one after leap autobite. In either case you would need to account for a delay before your next attack.
<!--quoteo(post=1733315:date=Oct 21 2009, 05:15 PM:name=monopolowa)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (monopolowa @ Oct 21 2009, 05:15 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1733315"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->my point is that there's a delay between bites already...you would have a delay after leap bite just as you would have one after leap autobite. In either case you would need to account for a delay before your next attack.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
huh? NS1 - leap -> bite. ( no delay ) NS2 - Leap/autobite -> bite (delay) not to mention a total halt to your forward momentum due to forced "contact"
huh? there's no delay between the leap and the bite in either case. The delay I'm talking about is between the bite at the end (auto or no) and your next bite.
And you come to a stop if you actually collide with a marine already, what's the difference with autobite on? I assume that in the case of a near miss you could still bite manually.
There's still a large amount of potential for skills to develop here IMO.
I suppose it depends how it looks, I mean if leap makes the skulk open its mouth and then close it when it hits a marine, that would look ok and it would kinda feel OK too, because it's basically doing damage for hitting someone with a leap, which is actually perfectly logical, if hitting someone makes the skulk just chomp though it'd feel a bit weird I think.
A lot of people seem to forget that leap was an attack in NS1 and not a movement-ability. It has always done damage to it's target if used properly. This is merely a different method of delivering that damage. Allthough it may be increased damage, but essentialy it's still the same thing.
The discussion should not be on if auto-bite on the end of a leap is bad, but rather on wether leap should be completely movement-based or not. Ergo- Do we want the ability to be reworked from the NS1 concept completely(To be movement-based only) or do we want to keep it as it's always been(An Attack-move), albeit slightly modified.
<!--quoteo(post=1733319:date=Oct 21 2009, 06:30 PM:name=-Diesel-)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (-Diesel- @ Oct 21 2009, 06:30 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1733319"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Give the marines auto shoot also.
And don't forget auto aim!
Because taking away the gameplay from the players is a good idea..
SERIOUSLY WHAT ARE YOU GUYS THINKING???<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> The world must be coming to an end because I think I agree with Diesel. If I want my Skulk to automatically bit something I'll make it out of marzipan.
<!--quoteo(post=1733319:date=Oct 21 2009, 11:30 PM:name=-Diesel-)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (-Diesel- @ Oct 21 2009, 11:30 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1733319"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Give the marines auto shoot also.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Thats like saying having an rpg round auto-explode when it hits its target is "taking away the gameplay from the player" because they don't have to fire it a second time when it reaches its destination. Seriously, what's with all the random-ass nonsensical metaphors ITT?
Then lets go back to the Fade's blink-autoswipe metaphore. Its still absurd, no?
And this isn't about "making the game harder." If they left out auto-bite they would't be making the game "harder," they would be keeping it the same. What they're doing here is making it "easier." As other people have already expressed concern for, making the game play for you, step by step little by little, is detremental. And thats exactly what this auto-bite does. It takes away the variable of the player, and player control, and has the game execute it automatically, in place of the player. I think a big part of this argument, and fighting against the implentation of this feature, is what it stands for, which is essentially making the game easier by having it "play for you." It could just be the first step in more and more dumbing down of the game, which I personally find scary.
i hate autobite...it took real skill and reflexes to do it without an automated system. and every now and then when u mistimed the bite u wud get a leap kill :).
but now...it takes away the skill level of the game. it took me so long to master the ability to quikly switch my fingers and press the number buttons in mid air just in time to bite a marines head off.
I am all for an auto bite, but only because I suck. I honestly (and yes this is embarrasing but 100% true)... I honestly don't remember hitting a marine using the leap-bite attack in NS1, one single time. So hahaha yes I know I am the worst skulk in that regard, BUT I am still all for it.
<!--quoteo(post=1733347:date=Oct 22 2009, 02:11 AM:name=corpsman)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (corpsman @ Oct 22 2009, 02:11 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1733347"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I am all for an auto bite, but only because I suck. I honestly (and yes this is embarrasing but 100% true)... I honestly don't remember hitting a marine using the leap-bite attack in NS1, one single time. So hahaha yes I know I am the worst skulk in that regard, BUT I am still all for it.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
What else are you terrible at in NS? Just so they can go ahead and make those things much easier for you too
<!--quoteo(post=1733367:date=Oct 22 2009, 01:59 AM:name=scknsS)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (scknsS @ Oct 22 2009, 01:59 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1733367"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Against it. Take it out please.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I was going to make a sarcastic post about how do you know it sucks without playing the game, but it was turning out rather childish.
I'll just restate I'll wait for the game before I make judgement for or against.
If the developer says its "Fun!", then .. well, I don't know. I would have to assume its not the fall of NS2.
I'm in favour of this. Anything to ease people into the game. Look at TF2; easy as pie to start playing, and scoring, but mastering any class takes a lot of time and effort.
When I started playing NS1 again back in April, after having been away from the game since 2005, I brought some of my Steam friends along. They really liked the sound of the game, especially the blending of RTS and FPS elements. They played for a few days, then dropped it. When I queried them on this, they simply said "As an Alien I feel like I can't kill anything and as a Marine I feel the same".
This is because NS1 DOES have a relatively steep learning curve. It IS a difficult game to get into, let alone master. A noob at TF2 can pick Pyro and start having fun from the word go. A noob in NS1 is going to suffer game after game of agony before things start to pick up. Worse still, a team of noobs suffers even further.
People who have passed this initiation rite and gone on to really enjoy the game naturally are disdainful of others having a "free ride". If they had to work at mastering something like leap-bite, they naturally feel cheated when someone else can do it for free. This however is a false view. Said players were able to use this particular skill to their benefit for many years in NS1. In NS2, they are now free to devote more time to mastering other aspects of gameplay. Simply because Skulks have auto-bite and a few more HP does not change the fact that at the end of the day, you're a small melee only creature facing off against guys with a lot of ranged firepower. Once again, an easy to play class can still be extremely challenging to master. To use another TF2 example, the Pyro starts off with a low skill ceiling, but to truly master it requires night godlike reflexes and extreme tactical savvy.
What this does do is make the early gameplay experience less painful. New players will naturally have a lot of Skulk playtime, so anything that makes things more forgiving for them is a major plus. More customers = more money = more development. Not to mention more people to play with. If I want to play NS1 currently, I have a grand total of 2 servers to chose from, and neither is usually full.
<!--quoteo(post=1733358:date=Oct 21 2009, 10:40 PM:name=PSA)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (PSA @ Oct 21 2009, 10:40 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1733358"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->What else are you terrible at in NS? Just so they can go ahead and make those things much easier for you too<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You could stab yourself. That would be a good start.
<!--quoteo(post=1733374:date=Oct 22 2009, 12:29 AM:name=Silver_Fox)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Silver_Fox @ Oct 22 2009, 12:29 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1733374"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->If the developer says its "Fun!", then .. well, I don't know. I would have to assume its not the fall of NS2.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You seem to have a ton of faith in the developers, and I can't disagree, as they will definitely give us a great game. However it will only be a great game with hard work from all fronts, and just because they are some of the people who worked on NS1 does not mean that they will make it just as perfect.
There were definitely plenty of decisions during the NS1 development cycle that some would regard as poor, or were at least very controversial. 1. Changing the lerk flight model 2. Allowing gorges to heal themselves (and who can forget how quickly they realized that a gorge should only be able to heal itself at 1/2 power) 3. Implementation of the slippery slope (res for kill), and subsequently the removal of the once relatively common "epic" game 4. Implementation of mp_blockscripts 5. Fade no longer truly "blinks", and a somewhat similar subject is the change in fade blink acceleration with the creation of +movement 6. Creation of combat game mode 7. Changing of skulk wall climb model, as it broke using +moveup to greatly assist in climbing walls 8. Changing up cloak so that you can run while being cloaked 9. BUS / nexus
Oh, and corpsman: you really botched any argument you may have had with your original post. PSA actually had a very good point, if delivered somewhat harshly.
<!--quoteo(post=1733385:date=Oct 22 2009, 06:11 AM:name=Invader_Scoot)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Invader_Scoot @ Oct 22 2009, 06:11 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1733385"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->You seem to have a ton of faith in the developers, and I can't disagree, as they will definitely give us a great game. However it will only be a great game with hard work from all fronts, and just because they are some of the people who worked on NS1 does not mean that they will make it just as perfect.
There were definitely plenty of decisions during the NS1 development cycle that some would regard as poor, or were at least very controversial. 1. Changing the lerk flight model 2. Allowing gorges to heal themselves (and who can forget how quickly they realized that a gorge should only be able to heal itself at 1/2 power) 3. Implementation of the slippery slope (res for kill), and subsequently the removal of the once relatively common "epic" game 4. Implementation of mp_blockscripts 5. Fade no longer truly "blinks", and a somewhat similar subject is the change in fade blink acceleration with the creation of +movement 6. Creation of combat game mode 7. Changing of skulk wall climb model, as it broke using +moveup to greatly assist in climbing walls 8. Changing up cloak so that you can run while being cloaked 9. BUS / nexus
Oh, and corpsman: you really botched any argument you may have had with your original post. PSA actually had a very good point, if delivered somewhat harshly.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--quoteo(post=1733383:date=Oct 22 2009, 06:06 AM:name=corpsman)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (corpsman @ Oct 22 2009, 06:06 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1733383"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->You could stab yourself. That would be a good start.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yeah, thats a pretty intense post there corpsman. I guess that came across sort of harsh, but... I guess "terrible" has a pretty negative, derogatory connotion to it, but I thought it was ok considering the context of him openly declaring that he "sucks." Sorry. Anyways, glad someone saw my point.
And please tell me I'm not the only person who is wants anything BUT NS2 to go the way of TF2. Yes TF2 is all fun and that but its a completely different game than NS. Its random, and directed HARSHLY toward casual and new gamers. Its rather easy to play and kill everything everywhere. I always admired NS because it was such a technical and structured, grounded FPS. In TF2 you just die, often regardless of how "good" you are. Skill has a much lower factor, which is what has made it so "accessible" to newer (ie bad) players (it just lets them stay bad forever and never improve while still getting good results). So, no, please, don't try to apply that comparison as if its a good thing. I am all for having new players get comfortable with the gaming experience of NS, but this can be done in other ways than simplying "making the game easier/simpler" or "having the game play for you." Complexity, depth, and reliance on "the human variable of skill" is essential, in my opinion, especially in NS's case.
I have to agree with the negative responses. In particular, I like thinking of leap as a movement ability and bite as an attack. Turning leap into an attack will encourage "shallow" play. What I mean by this is that a person will think they should use leap to "attack" a marine. All leap does is propel the skulk forward towards the marine. If you (the skulk) are thinking "ATTACK!" and are trying to "shoot" the marine with leap, you will go in a straight line, making you a very easy kill. Noobs will think this is how leap is supposed to work since it automatically attacks once (if they ever) hit the marine.
On the other hand, NOT having autobite will encourage people to use the ability differently, since it is ineffective at hurting the marine on its own. Combined with other skill based movement (air strafe in particular), we can have a nice synergy between movement abilities (leap, airstrafe, bhop) and attack (bite, xeno, etc.). Taking away ANOTHER movement ability (I've all but given up hope for airstrafe and bhop in NS2) by adding autobite is starting to make me think NS2 will have no depth at all.
remiremedy [blu.knight]Join Date: 2003-11-18Member: 23112Members, Super Administrators, Forum Admins, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester
<!--quoteo(post=1733382:date=Oct 21 2009, 10:05 PM:name=Ryo-Ohki)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Ryo-Ohki @ Oct 21 2009, 10:05 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1733382"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Look at TF2; easy as pie to start playing, and scoring, but mastering any class takes a lot of time and effort.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
They don't give you automatic rocket jumps, stab + sap, nor auto-activated ubercharges. These all require timing (which is a skill!), and mastering these is part of what goes into mastering a class and making the game fun. It would be very boring to play a medic if you didn't need to worry about deploying your uber charge. No timing neccessary, you can just sit back and take comfort in knowing that it will activate at the computer-decided best time.
NS2 is a FPS, not a rhythm game, but the reason rhythm games are popular is because of how rewarding hitting the button with correct timing actually is. Timing is fun, and it is not just limited to rhythm games. RTS, FPS, Action, Adventure, they all have timing on both the macro and micro scale.
<!--quoteo(post=1733392:date=Oct 22 2009, 07:03 AM:name=Psyke)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Psyke @ Oct 22 2009, 07:03 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1733392"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->They don't give you automatic rocket jumps, stab + sap, nor auto-activated ubercharges. These all require timing (which is a skill!), and mastering these is part of what goes into mastering a class and making the game fun. It would be very boring to play a medic if you didn't need to worry about deploying your uber charge. No timing neccessary, you can just sit back and take comfort in knowing that it will activate at the computer-decided best time.
NS2 is a FPS, not a rhythm game, but the reason rhythm games are popular is because of how rewarding hitting the button with correct timing actually is. Timing is fun, and it is not just limited to rhythm games. RTS, FPS, Action, Adventure, they all have timing on both the macro and micro scale.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
unfortunately those are the only requirements for skill, and all of those can be "mastered" relatively easy. Even air-rockets and the like are relatively easy to pull off if you just practice it a tiny bit, and regardless, those small examples of "skill" pale in comparison to how easy it is to blow someone up or die, quite randomly at times. These "skillful things" also only let you go so far; ie the skill ceiling for the game is rather low, imo. Everything is extremely strait-forward and simple, and thats great for TF2, but personally not what I want to see NS turn into. I'm sorry but one of the things I love most about this game is a extremely seasoned player to tear a team to shreds unless the team has its own very skilled player, or really works to take that player down. ISM is not a bad thing...
<!--quoteo(post=1733347:date=Oct 22 2009, 02:11 AM:name=corpsman)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (corpsman @ Oct 22 2009, 02:11 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1733347"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I am all for an auto bite, but only because I suck. I honestly (and yes this is embarrasing but 100% true)... I honestly don't remember hitting a marine using the leap-bite attack in NS1, one single time. So hahaha yes I know I am the worst skulk in that regard, BUT I am still all for it.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Do you use +movement on mouse2? If you can aim your leap (which is still necessary) and activate it on mouse2 (which UWE should've defaulted for +movement anyway), all you have to do is to press down mouse1 right after pressing mouse2.
The bite rate of fire isn't even that bad, so unless the marine is decent you can afford to miss the best timing and land your 2nd bite or just land the first one late.
At least what I've talked on public games is that most people just don't use +movement because it isn't mouse2 by default. Once they start using it, they realize how inuitive the system is.
Comments
Just think about it as adding extra damage to Leap, with a forced recovery time before bite can be used (on the same order as the delay between 2 bites - don't panic about the "recovery time")
Just think about it as adding extra damage to Leap, with a forced recovery time before bite can be used (on the same order as the delay between 2 bites - don't panic about the "recovery time")<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
the recovery time DOES matter. Can't tell you how many times I died between bites because I missed the bite due to timing or latency.
Keep Autobite, but also keep the +movement key in some form or fashion.
While the Autobite will remain functional, +movement will always have more nuance and keeps timing in the hands of the more skilled players.
huh? NS1 - leap -> bite. ( no delay )
NS2 - Leap/autobite -> bite (delay) not to mention a total halt to your forward momentum due to forced "contact"
And you come to a stop if you actually collide with a marine already, what's the difference with autobite on?
I assume that in the case of a near miss you could still bite manually.
There's still a large amount of potential for skills to develop here IMO.
And don't forget auto aim!
Because taking away the gameplay from the players is a good idea..
SERIOUSLY WHAT ARE YOU GUYS THINKING???
it was like adding +movement in 3.2
The discussion should not be on if auto-bite on the end of a leap is bad, but rather on wether leap should be completely movement-based or not. Ergo- Do we want the ability to be reworked from the NS1 concept completely(To be movement-based only) or do we want to keep it as it's always been(An Attack-move), albeit slightly modified.
Couldnt agree more.
PS: Leap kill > Parasite kill
And don't forget auto aim!
Because taking away the gameplay from the players is a good idea..
SERIOUSLY WHAT ARE YOU GUYS THINKING???<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The world must be coming to an end because I think I agree with Diesel. If I want my Skulk to automatically bit something I'll make it out of marzipan.
Thats like saying having an rpg round auto-explode when it hits its target is "taking away the gameplay from the player" because they don't have to fire it a second time when it reaches its destination. Seriously, what's with all the random-ass nonsensical metaphors ITT?
And this isn't about "making the game harder." If they left out auto-bite they would't be making the game "harder," they would be keeping it the same. What they're doing here is making it "easier." As other people have already expressed concern for, making the game play for you, step by step little by little, is detremental. And thats exactly what this auto-bite does. It takes away the variable of the player, and player control, and has the game execute it automatically, in place of the player. I think a big part of this argument, and fighting against the implentation of this feature, is what it stands for, which is essentially making the game easier by having it "play for you." It could just be the first step in more and more dumbing down of the game, which I personally find scary.
but now...it takes away the skill level of the game. it took me so long to master the ability to quikly switch my fingers and press the number buttons in mid air just in time to bite a marines head off.
What else are you terrible at in NS? Just so they can go ahead and make those things much easier for you too
I was going to make a sarcastic post about how do you know it sucks without playing the game, but it was turning out rather childish.
I'll just restate I'll wait for the game before I make judgement for or against.
If the developer says its "Fun!", then .. well, I don't know. I would have to assume its not the fall of NS2.
ns1->ns2
ns1->ns2<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Thats a pretty premature statement
When I started playing NS1 again back in April, after having been away from the game since 2005, I brought some of my Steam friends along. They really liked the sound of the game, especially the blending of RTS and FPS elements. They played for a few days, then dropped it. When I queried them on this, they simply said "As an Alien I feel like I can't kill anything and as a Marine I feel the same".
This is because NS1 DOES have a relatively steep learning curve. It IS a difficult game to get into, let alone master. A noob at TF2 can pick Pyro and start having fun from the word go. A noob in NS1 is going to suffer game after game of agony before things start to pick up. Worse still, a team of noobs suffers even further.
People who have passed this initiation rite and gone on to really enjoy the game naturally are disdainful of others having a "free ride". If they had to work at mastering something like leap-bite, they naturally feel cheated when someone else can do it for free. This however is a false view. Said players were able to use this particular skill to their benefit for many years in NS1. In NS2, they are now free to devote more time to mastering other aspects of gameplay. Simply because Skulks have auto-bite and a few more HP does not change the fact that at the end of the day, you're a small melee only creature facing off against guys with a lot of ranged firepower. Once again, an easy to play class can still be extremely challenging to master. To use another TF2 example, the Pyro starts off with a low skill ceiling, but to truly master it requires night godlike reflexes and extreme tactical savvy.
What this does do is make the early gameplay experience less painful. New players will naturally have a lot of Skulk playtime, so anything that makes things more forgiving for them is a major plus. More customers = more money = more development. Not to mention more people to play with. If I want to play NS1 currently, I have a grand total of 2 servers to chose from, and neither is usually full.
You could stab yourself. That would be a good start.
You seem to have a ton of faith in the developers, and I can't disagree, as they will definitely give us a great game. However it will only be a great game with hard work from all fronts, and just because they are some of the people who worked on NS1 does not mean that they will make it just as perfect.
There were definitely plenty of decisions during the NS1 development cycle that some would regard as poor, or were at least very controversial.
1. Changing the lerk flight model
2. Allowing gorges to heal themselves (and who can forget how quickly they realized that a gorge should only be able to heal itself at 1/2 power)
3. Implementation of the slippery slope (res for kill), and subsequently the removal of the once relatively common "epic" game
4. Implementation of mp_blockscripts
5. Fade no longer truly "blinks", and a somewhat similar subject is the change in fade blink acceleration with the creation of +movement
6. Creation of combat game mode
7. Changing of skulk wall climb model, as it broke using +moveup to greatly assist in climbing walls
8. Changing up cloak so that you can run while being cloaked
9. BUS / nexus
Oh, and corpsman: you really botched any argument you may have had with your original post. PSA actually had a very good point, if delivered somewhat harshly.
There were definitely plenty of decisions during the NS1 development cycle that some would regard as poor, or were at least very controversial.
1. Changing the lerk flight model
2. Allowing gorges to heal themselves (and who can forget how quickly they realized that a gorge should only be able to heal itself at 1/2 power)
3. Implementation of the slippery slope (res for kill), and subsequently the removal of the once relatively common "epic" game
4. Implementation of mp_blockscripts
5. Fade no longer truly "blinks", and a somewhat similar subject is the change in fade blink acceleration with the creation of +movement
6. Creation of combat game mode
7. Changing of skulk wall climb model, as it broke using +moveup to greatly assist in climbing walls
8. Changing up cloak so that you can run while being cloaked
9. BUS / nexus
Oh, and corpsman: you really botched any argument you may have had with your original post. PSA actually had a very good point, if delivered somewhat harshly.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--quoteo(post=1733383:date=Oct 22 2009, 06:06 AM:name=corpsman)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (corpsman @ Oct 22 2009, 06:06 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1733383"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->You could stab yourself. That would be a good start.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yeah, thats a pretty intense post there corpsman. I guess that came across sort of harsh, but... I guess "terrible" has a pretty negative, derogatory connotion to it, but I thought it was ok considering the context of him openly declaring that he "sucks." Sorry. Anyways, glad someone saw my point.
And please tell me I'm not the only person who is wants anything BUT NS2 to go the way of TF2. Yes TF2 is all fun and that but its a completely different game than NS. Its random, and directed HARSHLY toward casual and new gamers. Its rather easy to play and kill everything everywhere. I always admired NS because it was such a technical and structured, grounded FPS. In TF2 you just die, often regardless of how "good" you are. Skill has a much lower factor, which is what has made it so "accessible" to newer (ie bad) players (it just lets them stay bad forever and never improve while still getting good results). So, no, please, don't try to apply that comparison as if its a good thing. I am all for having new players get comfortable with the gaming experience of NS, but this can be done in other ways than simplying "making the game easier/simpler" or "having the game play for you." Complexity, depth, and reliance on "the human variable of skill" is essential, in my opinion, especially in NS's case.
On the other hand, NOT having autobite will encourage people to use the ability differently, since it is ineffective at hurting the marine on its own. Combined with other skill based movement (air strafe in particular), we can have a nice synergy between movement abilities (leap, airstrafe, bhop) and attack (bite, xeno, etc.). Taking away ANOTHER movement ability (I've all but given up hope for airstrafe and bhop in NS2) by adding autobite is starting to make me think NS2 will have no depth at all.
EDIT: btw, what was BUS/Nexus supposed to be?
They don't give you automatic rocket jumps, stab + sap, nor auto-activated ubercharges. These all require timing (which is a skill!), and mastering these is part of what goes into mastering a class and making the game fun. It would be very boring to play a medic if you didn't need to worry about deploying your uber charge. No timing neccessary, you can just sit back and take comfort in knowing that it will activate at the computer-decided best time.
NS2 is a FPS, not a rhythm game, but the reason rhythm games are popular is because of how rewarding hitting the button with correct timing actually is. Timing is fun, and it is not just limited to rhythm games. RTS, FPS, Action, Adventure, they all have timing on both the macro and micro scale.
NS2 is a FPS, not a rhythm game, but the reason rhythm games are popular is because of how rewarding hitting the button with correct timing actually is. Timing is fun, and it is not just limited to rhythm games. RTS, FPS, Action, Adventure, they all have timing on both the macro and micro scale.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
unfortunately those are the only requirements for skill, and all of those can be "mastered" relatively easy. Even air-rockets and the like are relatively easy to pull off if you just practice it a tiny bit, and regardless, those small examples of "skill" pale in comparison to how easy it is to blow someone up or die, quite randomly at times. These "skillful things" also only let you go so far; ie the skill ceiling for the game is rather low, imo. Everything is extremely strait-forward and simple, and thats great for TF2, but personally not what I want to see NS turn into. I'm sorry but one of the things I love most about this game is a extremely seasoned player to tear a team to shreds unless the team has its own very skilled player, or really works to take that player down. ISM is not a bad thing...
Do you use +movement on mouse2? If you can aim your leap (which is still necessary) and activate it on mouse2 (which UWE should've defaulted for +movement anyway), all you have to do is to press down mouse1 right after pressing mouse2.
The bite rate of fire isn't even that bad, so unless the marine is decent you can afford to miss the best timing and land your 2nd bite or just land the first one late.
At least what I've talked on public games is that most people just don't use +movement because it isn't mouse2 by default. Once they start using it, they realize how inuitive the system is.