<!--quoteo(post=1733244:date=Oct 21 2009, 09:11 PM:name=snooggums)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (snooggums @ Oct 21 2009, 09:11 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1733244"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->A skilled NS player knows when to build, when to listen, when to rush and when to defend when the comm is silent.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Perhaps the word you're looking for is "clever"? Skill is a nebulous concept, but most will agree that a more skilled player is a better player, no ifs or buts. As such, I consider it the sum of the parts.
Now if you want to argue that his abilities at twitch aiming are not as important as his abilities to make the right choices in movement or building, that's fine, but it doesn't make one or the other less of a part in how skilled he is. They're all important to some degree.
<!--quoteo(post=1733235:date=Oct 21 2009, 06:28 PM:name=Clink)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Clink @ Oct 21 2009, 06:28 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1733235"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I've been playing since Oct 31 2002 and I still suck with the skulk.
+1 auto bite.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Once again, I've played this game for such a long period that I often forget what's difficult to learn. I agree that skulking has a lot of diffculties, but is biting while leaping with +movement that much of a challenge? I could see it being difficult without the +movement, but with it it's simple as it gets.
As I mentioned earlier, I don't care that much if it removes a slight bit of skill from the game, but discouraging people to improve the control doesn't sound good in NS. You can most likely learn the very basic bite timing in 5-10 minutes and after that the learning process takes place whenever you decide to leap at a marine. On the other hand with automatic bite people are comfortable sitting back on far less optimal routine and the automation blocks them from seeing the more advanced uses.
If the bite timing really is a significant learning curve issue, by all means implement the automated bite, I just thought it's one of the easiest things a skulk needs to cope with.
<!--quoteo(post=1733233:date=Oct 21 2009, 07:21 PM:name=snooggums)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (snooggums @ Oct 21 2009, 07:21 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1733233"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->True skill is knowing when and how to attack, not how to time button mashing in an online game due to the influence of latency between the players. Button mashing timing is for rhythm games.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
It's developers taking this very console-friendly approach that annoys.
<!--quoteo(post=1733262:date=Oct 21 2009, 12:31 PM:name=Thaldarin)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Thaldarin @ Oct 21 2009, 12:31 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1733262"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I think a lot of people need to stop questioning until they play. All I see on this forum these days is arguments.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I don't understand why it was even considered. The twitter says "thanks for the suggestion"... anyone have a link? I just hope they didn't waste much time on this code.
True skill is knowing when and how to attack, not how to time button mashing in an online game due to the influence of latency between the players. Button mashing timing is for rhythm games.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
But knowing WHEN to bite takes a ton of skill, especially when you get better with it and can bite without just running headlong into a marine as if he is a brick wall. I'm with Onozki, in the case that autobite remains in the game the bite attack may as well be removed completely for a perma-biting effect. And I guess marines should autoknife if an alien is within range? Autobuild structures? Autoweld?
Please tell me how pressing 2 buttons, mouse2 and mouse1, is button mashing skill.
BTW, why go through the trouble of making alt-fire for leap when you auto-bite anyway?! Just make 1 button do everything, contextually. I have an idea: there should be an icon at the bottom of the screen that says "attack". And you click it. Then it makes your avatar attack, using whatever ability is relevant. Neat, huh.
You don't need to design a good control scheme if you don't have control over the game to begin with.
Flayra said that. And I think he knows a little bit more about skulking than you do pal ... because <b>he invented it</b>! And then he perfected it so that no living man could best him in the ring of battle!
Seriously though ... Flayra made NS. I think he has a pretty good grasp of what he'd like NS2 to be.
NS is hard for new people and if this makes the game friendlier to new people and is still fun, I don't see the problem.
NS - and by a <b>far</b> greater extension, the NS community - is not friendly to new players. If you can not perform at the top of your game from the get go, you are called every name in the book and raged on. It's hard to learn a game when everyone is throwing insults at you and it's not fun.
Perhaps people need to reel in their elitism a bit.
Besides, he said it was a fun change! I think I would trust that when the person who made NS, who is now making NS2, says its a fun change ... that it might actually be fun.
<!--quoteo(post=1733261:date=Oct 21 2009, 02:27 PM:name=sherpa)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (sherpa @ Oct 21 2009, 02:27 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1733261"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->It's developers taking this very console-friendly approach that annoys.
You're just so wrong.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Your comparison to console gamers has swayed me, I will now follow the logic that the more buttons pressed the more skill is involved.
To walk, I propose we alternate two buttons (such as A and D) to simulate the difference between stepping with each foot. Obviously the skilled players will be able to press the buttons faster and allow them to walk faster therefore showing off their leet skills.
To reload a weapon as marine the player will need to hit 'r' to remove the clip, 'e' to drop it, 'e' again to retrieve the new one and 'r' to place it into the rifle. If the player clicks at the wrong speed the action will not work correctly, just like how a player might miss a bite during a leap if he times it wrong. Obviously a player who is skilled in reloading their weapon is a better player than someone who simply hits 'r' to automatically reload his weapon or god forbid allow the game to do it for him when he runs out of bullets.
To crawl on a wall as a skulk a player should be required to hold the arrow key of the wall direction he wants to stick to so if he leaps at a ceiling he will need to hit the up arrow to stick to it. Obviously allowing the skulk to leap and stick to a wall without having to press an additional button would be an insult to those who use real skill.
Crouching should always require pressing and holding a button, toggle buttons are for noobs.
Obviously anyone who disagrees and thinks that something should happen automatically or with a single key press are just console fanboys and have absolutely no way to tell the difference between streamlining a common action to represent a natural ability of the creature they are playing and making the game easy for noobs.
I will adamantly oppose any kind of logical change to the game from now on. Can I be in your cool club now?
Einstein (second only to Flayra) said "Everything should be made as simple as possible, <!--coloro:red--><span style="color:red"><!--/coloro-->but no simpler<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->."
One key to control every muscle in your body would not be as simple as possible.
<!--quoteo(post=1733271:date=Oct 21 2009, 03:40 PM:name=Silver_Fox)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Silver_Fox @ Oct 21 2009, 03:40 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1733271"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->NS - and by a <b>far</b> greater extension, the NS community - is not friendly to new players. If you can not perform at the top of your game from the get go, you are called every name in the book and raged on. It's hard to learn a game when everyone is throwing insults at you and it's not fun.
Perhaps people need to reel in their elitism a bit.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
There will <b>always</b> be those in a community who will call those lesser to him names. That's absolutely never going to change, and simplifying how a skulk bites a marine will definitely not change that one bit. That's also a gross generalization, as the majority of people on posting on these forums (definitely me at least) probably care about this game and it's developers far more than any other single game or other dev team. I, and likely also them, absolutely <b>do not</b> belittle those who are at a lower playing stage than me.
Everyone here is arguing for what they think would provide a better game.
I strongly agree with the idea, having to time your bite is difficult and makes new players ineffective.
However the implementation feels a bit odd, it's like having your gun auto fire when you aim at something.
I think I'd prefer it if bite was simply easier to hit with, it hits in an area around your mouth and maybe autoaims a bit, so you press the button and it aims you at the enemy and maybe pushes you forward a bit if you're close enough. It gives the feel of an alien being faster than a marine because it is hard as hell to shake off in melee and makes it easier to use. Sort of like the melee button in COD4.
To the people suggesting it should be optional... please think that through.
It is an online multiplayer game. Who would turn on an option to make the game more "difficult" just for fun? Did you ever turn the brightness waaay down in NS so you couldn't see, in order to make it more difficult? No? Did you ever just stay as skulk when marines are winning, just to make it more difficult on your team? Please.
I really have no idea what this feature is for. I guess if there is someone somewhere who thinks they are unable to click 'bite' when they get near an enemy, there's no harm putting it in as an option.
But please, let me decide when to use the primary attack of the primary alien class...
<!--quoteo(post=1733292:date=Oct 21 2009, 11:13 PM:name=juice)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (juice @ Oct 21 2009, 11:13 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1733292"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->To the people suggesting it should be optional... please think that through.
It is an online multiplayer game. Who would turn on an option to make the game more "difficult" just for fun? Did you ever turn the brightness waaay down in NS so you couldn't see, in order to make it more difficult? No? Did you ever just stay as skulk when marines are winning, just to make it more difficult on your team? Please.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> But it does have downsides, so it's a legit proposal - as mentioned example, if you're attacking a group you may want to hit a specific marine, not the one that first comes into range.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I strongly agree with the idea, having to time your bite is difficult and makes new players ineffective.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
New players are supposed to be ineffective!
Autobite?! Seriously?!
The whole skill thing in NS was that the good players could time leap and bite (much like fades and blink + swipe). Are you going to add auto-swipe too for lazy, unskilled fades? Maybe if a marine is injured, the commander will auto-medpack drop them when they call for it?
Why automate what can be developed through practice? Whats the point of getting good at a game if everyone just has to roll their face across the keyboard and let the game automatically do it's thing? NS was such a great game because there was a stark difference between the players that practiced and improved, and the bad players. If you take this away to make it a more even playing field for those who suck at aiming and shooting, no one will be motivated to improve. Seriously, gah.
<!--quoteo(post=1733293:date=Oct 21 2009, 09:17 PM:name=scary_jeff)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (scary_jeff @ Oct 21 2009, 09:17 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1733293"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I really have no idea what this feature is for.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Removing the redundancy of having to hit primary attack in order to do damage with your secondary attack.
<!--quoteo(post=1733294:date=Oct 21 2009, 03:20 PM:name=Align)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Align @ Oct 21 2009, 03:20 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1733294"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->But it does have downsides, so it's a legit proposal - as mentioned example, if you're attacking a group you may want to hit a specific marine, not the one that first comes into range.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I fully support having the option to turn it off for more control.
<!--quoteo(post=1733271:date=Oct 21 2009, 01:40 PM:name=Silver_Fox)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Silver_Fox @ Oct 21 2009, 01:40 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1733271"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Flayra said that. And I think he knows a little bit more about skulking than you do pal ... because <b>he invented it</b>! And then he perfected it so that no living man could best him in the ring of battle!<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> You may be sarcastic here, I'm not sure, but have you ever seen him play NS? lol
<!--quoteo(post=0:date=:name=zex)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (zex)</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Removing the redundancy of having to hit primary attack in order to do damage with your secondary attack.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> If that's the aim, why not have leap do damage? Wait! It already does. Instead of having leap "autobite" why not just play around with how much contact damage leap does? I still fail to see how autobite is actually intuitive for new players, when the skulk doesn't normally autobite on contact, only at the end of a leap. It's inconsistent.
<!--quoteo(post=1733300:date=Oct 21 2009, 09:59 PM:name=noncomposmentis)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (noncomposmentis @ Oct 21 2009, 09:59 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1733300"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I still fail to see how autobite is actually intuitive for new players, when the skulk doesn't normally autobite on contact, only at the end of a leap. It's inconsistent.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Automatically doing damage when your secondary attack hits its target is the definition of intuitive. It's perfectly consistent with not autobiting whenever you run into an enemy because "running into an enemy" isn't an attack, and doesn't involve pressing a key to perform an attack.
<!--quoteo(post=1733301:date=Oct 21 2009, 03:09 PM:name=zex)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (zex @ Oct 21 2009, 03:09 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1733301"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Automatically doing damage when your secondary attack hits its target is the definition of intuitive. It's perfectly consistent with not autobiting whenever you run into an enemy because "running into an enemy" isn't an attack, and doesn't involve pressing a key to perform an attack.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> I specifically mentioned it in the quoted post but leap already automatically does damage when it hits a marine. Automatically biting when you haven't pressed the bite key will never be intuitive because it's an anomaly. Leap, at least in NS1, is primarily a movement ability. WASD are movement keys, so if leap autobites on contact, why don't they? Again, please don't ignore the fact that leap <b>already does damage on contact</b>.
<!--quoteo(post=1733300:date=Oct 21 2009, 06:59 PM:name=noncomposmentis)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (noncomposmentis @ Oct 21 2009, 06:59 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1733300"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->You may be sarcastic here, I'm not sure, but have you ever seen him play NS? lol<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Was one of the first ... played with him for quite a long time, actually ...
Was an obscure reference to TF2. Specifically, the "Meet the Soldier" video.
I suppose it doesn't make much sense if you've never seen it.
<!--quoteo(post=1733304:date=Oct 21 2009, 10:31 PM:name=noncomposmentis)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (noncomposmentis @ Oct 21 2009, 10:31 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1733304"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Leap, at least in NS1, is primarily a movement ability. WASD are movement keys, so if leap autobites on contact, why don't they? .<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Regardless of what "leap" is in a different game, in *this* game (NS2), leap is a secondary attack ("leap is now alt fire for bite") and not a movement key. Saying the bite alt-fire shouldn't bite, is the only thing that would be inconsistent here.
<!--quoteo(post=1733304:date=Oct 21 2009, 04:31 PM:name=noncomposmentis)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (noncomposmentis @ Oct 21 2009, 04:31 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1733304"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I specifically mentioned it in the quoted post but leap already automatically does damage when it hits a marine. Automatically biting when you haven't pressed the bite key will never be intuitive because it's an anomaly. Leap, at least in NS1, is primarily a movement ability. WASD are movement keys, so if leap autobites on contact, why don't they? Again, please don't ignore the fact that leap <b>already does damage on contact</b>.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Good argument, actually. We have to consider if the satisfaction of doing extra damage will balance out the lack of consistency in the UI for the new user.
All these arguments about it taking skill away don't hold water as far as I'm concerned. New players jump directly into the marines and hit the bite key on contact. Autobite reduces their keypresses by one, and thus avoids frustration generated by latency. Skilled players jump past the marines and, as I understand what was written in the twitter, therefore would *not* bite automatically because they have not made actual contact. So in order for them to hit they need to manually adjust their aim and bite on the fly. Arguments about how sometimes you don't want to bite something (like trying to jump past marines or avoiding biting marine structures) are simply adding to the idea that autobite *adds* to the skill depth of the game, since you better be a damned good aim with your leap.
But consistency of UI.. that's important. Now I'm not sure which way I lean.
EDIT: Just saw Zex's counter.. it's a good response. So now the question arises, is there a secondary leap (+movement, perhaps) that does NOT have the autobite enabled? If that's the case then all this wailing and gnashing of teeth is for nothing.
Comments
Perhaps the word you're looking for is "clever"?
Skill is a nebulous concept, but most will agree that a more skilled player is a better player, no ifs or buts. As such, I consider it the sum of the parts.
Now if you want to argue that his abilities at twitch aiming are not as important as his abilities to make the right choices in movement or building, that's fine, but it doesn't make one or the other less of a part in how skilled he is. They're all important to some degree.
+1 auto bite.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Once again, I've played this game for such a long period that I often forget what's difficult to learn. I agree that skulking has a lot of diffculties, but is biting while leaping with +movement that much of a challenge? I could see it being difficult without the +movement, but with it it's simple as it gets.
As I mentioned earlier, I don't care that much if it removes a slight bit of skill from the game, but discouraging people to improve the control doesn't sound good in NS. You can most likely learn the very basic bite timing in 5-10 minutes and after that the learning process takes place whenever you decide to leap at a marine. On the other hand with automatic bite people are comfortable sitting back on far less optimal routine and the automation blocks them from seeing the more advanced uses.
If the bite timing really is a significant learning curve issue, by all means implement the automated bite, I just thought it's one of the easiest things a skulk needs to cope with.
It's developers taking this very console-friendly approach that annoys.
You're just so wrong.
It wouldn't be a forum without it.
I just hope they didn't waste much time on this code.
True skill is knowing when and how to attack, not how to time button mashing in an online game due to the influence of latency between the players. Button mashing timing is for rhythm games.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
But knowing WHEN to bite takes a ton of skill, especially when you get better with it and can bite without just running headlong into a marine as if he is a brick wall. I'm with Onozki, in the case that autobite remains in the game the bite attack may as well be removed completely for a perma-biting effect. And I guess marines should autoknife if an alien is within range? Autobuild structures? Autoweld?
That's just pitiful.
Leap is alt-fire aka mouse2.
Please tell me how pressing 2 buttons, mouse2 and mouse1, is button mashing skill.
BTW, why go through the trouble of making alt-fire for leap when you auto-bite anyway?! Just make 1 button do everything, contextually. I have an idea: there should be an icon at the bottom of the screen that says "attack". And you click it. Then it makes your avatar attack, using whatever ability is relevant. Neat, huh.
You don't need to design a good control scheme if you don't have control over the game to begin with.
Seriously though ... Flayra made NS. I think he has a pretty good grasp of what he'd like NS2 to be.
NS is hard for new people and if this makes the game friendlier to new people and is still fun, I don't see the problem.
NS - and by a <b>far</b> greater extension, the NS community - is not friendly to new players. If you can not perform at the top of your game from the get go, you are called every name in the book and raged on. It's hard to learn a game when everyone is throwing insults at you and it's not fun.
Perhaps people need to reel in their elitism a bit.
Besides, he said it was a fun change! I think I would trust that when the person who made NS, who is now making NS2, says its a fun change ... that it might actually be fun.
You're just so wrong.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Your comparison to console gamers has swayed me, I will now follow the logic that the more buttons pressed the more skill is involved.
To walk, I propose we alternate two buttons (such as A and D) to simulate the difference between stepping with each foot. Obviously the skilled players will be able to press the buttons faster and allow them to walk faster therefore showing off their leet skills.
To reload a weapon as marine the player will need to hit 'r' to remove the clip, 'e' to drop it, 'e' again to retrieve the new one and 'r' to place it into the rifle. If the player clicks at the wrong speed the action will not work correctly, just like how a player might miss a bite during a leap if he times it wrong. Obviously a player who is skilled in reloading their weapon is a better player than someone who simply hits 'r' to automatically reload his weapon or god forbid allow the game to do it for him when he runs out of bullets.
To crawl on a wall as a skulk a player should be required to hold the arrow key of the wall direction he wants to stick to so if he leaps at a ceiling he will need to hit the up arrow to stick to it. Obviously allowing the skulk to leap and stick to a wall without having to press an additional button would be an insult to those who use real skill.
Crouching should always require pressing and holding a button, toggle buttons are for noobs.
Obviously anyone who disagrees and thinks that something should happen automatically or with a single key press are just console fanboys and have absolutely no way to tell the difference between streamlining a common action to represent a natural ability of the creature they are playing and making the game easy for noobs.
I will adamantly oppose any kind of logical change to the game from now on. Can I be in your cool club now?
What next? Players run into enemy base on their own and we don't have control over them?
This is complete ###### (male chicken) and bull.
One key to control every muscle in your body would not be as simple as possible.
Only one key to do everything is too simple.
Perhaps people need to reel in their elitism a bit.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
There will <b>always</b> be those in a community who will call those lesser to him names. That's absolutely never going to change, and simplifying how a skulk bites a marine will definitely not change that one bit. That's also a gross generalization, as the majority of people on posting on these forums (definitely me at least) probably care about this game and it's developers far more than any other single game or other dev team. I, and likely also them, absolutely <b>do not</b> belittle those who are at a lower playing stage than me.
Everyone here is arguing for what they think would provide a better game.
However the implementation feels a bit odd, it's like having your gun auto fire when you aim at something.
I think I'd prefer it if bite was simply easier to hit with, it hits in an area around your mouth and maybe autoaims a bit, so you press the button and it aims you at the enemy and maybe pushes you forward a bit if you're close enough. It gives the feel of an alien being faster than a marine because it is hard as hell to shake off in melee and makes it easier to use. Sort of like the melee button in COD4.
It is an online multiplayer game. Who would turn on an option to make the game more "difficult" just for fun? Did you ever turn the brightness waaay down in NS so you couldn't see, in order to make it more difficult? No? Did you ever just stay as skulk when marines are winning, just to make it more difficult on your team? Please.
But please, let me decide when to use the primary attack of the primary alien class...
It is an online multiplayer game. Who would turn on an option to make the game more "difficult" just for fun? Did you ever turn the brightness waaay down in NS so you couldn't see, in order to make it more difficult? No? Did you ever just stay as skulk when marines are winning, just to make it more difficult on your team? Please.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
But it does have downsides, so it's a legit proposal - as mentioned example, if you're attacking a group you may want to hit a specific marine, not the one that first comes into range.
New players are supposed to be ineffective!
Autobite?! Seriously?!
The whole skill thing in NS was that the good players could time leap and bite (much like fades and blink + swipe). Are you going to add auto-swipe too for lazy, unskilled fades? Maybe if a marine is injured, the commander will auto-medpack drop them when they call for it?
Why automate what can be developed through practice? Whats the point of getting good at a game if everyone just has to roll their face across the keyboard and let the game automatically do it's thing? NS was such a great game because there was a stark difference between the players that practiced and improved, and the bad players. If you take this away to make it a more even playing field for those who suck at aiming and shooting, no one will be motivated to improve. Seriously, gah.
Removing the redundancy of having to hit primary attack in order to do damage with your secondary attack.
I fully support having the option to turn it off for more control.
You may be sarcastic here, I'm not sure, but have you ever seen him play NS? lol
<!--quoteo(post=0:date=:name=zex)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (zex)</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Removing the redundancy of having to hit primary attack in order to do damage with your secondary attack.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
If that's the aim, why not have leap do damage? Wait! It already does. Instead of having leap "autobite" why not just play around with how much contact damage leap does? I still fail to see how autobite is actually intuitive for new players, when the skulk doesn't normally autobite on contact, only at the end of a leap. It's inconsistent.
Automatically doing damage when your secondary attack hits its target is the definition of intuitive. It's perfectly consistent with not autobiting whenever you run into an enemy because "running into an enemy" isn't an attack, and doesn't involve pressing a key to perform an attack.
I specifically mentioned it in the quoted post but leap already automatically does damage when it hits a marine. Automatically biting when you haven't pressed the bite key will never be intuitive because it's an anomaly. Leap, at least in NS1, is primarily a movement ability. WASD are movement keys, so if leap autobites on contact, why don't they? Again, please don't ignore the fact that leap <b>already does damage on contact</b>.
Was one of the first ... played with him for quite a long time, actually ...
Was an obscure reference to TF2. Specifically, the "Meet the Soldier" video.
I suppose it doesn't make much sense if you've never seen it.
/shrug
Regardless of what "leap" is in a different game, in *this* game (NS2), leap is a secondary attack ("leap is now alt fire for bite") and not a movement key. Saying the bite alt-fire shouldn't bite, is the only thing that would be inconsistent here.
Good argument, actually. We have to consider if the satisfaction of doing extra damage will balance out the lack of consistency in the UI for the new user.
All these arguments about it taking skill away don't hold water as far as I'm concerned. New players jump directly into the marines and hit the bite key on contact. Autobite reduces their keypresses by one, and thus avoids frustration generated by latency. Skilled players jump past the marines and, as I understand what was written in the twitter, therefore would *not* bite automatically because they have not made actual contact. So in order for them to hit they need to manually adjust their aim and bite on the fly. Arguments about how sometimes you don't want to bite something (like trying to jump past marines or avoiding biting marine structures) are simply adding to the idea that autobite *adds* to the skill depth of the game, since you better be a damned good aim with your leap.
But consistency of UI.. that's important. Now I'm not sure which way I lean.
EDIT: Just saw Zex's counter.. it's a good response. So now the question arises, is there a secondary leap (+movement, perhaps) that does NOT have the autobite enabled? If that's the case then all this wailing and gnashing of teeth is for nothing.