Autobite
M00_cow
Join Date: 2007-03-02 Member: 60180Members, Constellation
Join Date: 2007-03-02 Member: 60180Members, Constellation
<div class="IPBDescription">Begin Discussion</div>For it? Against it?
How it will change the game? What it means for everyone?
My feelings?
It's early in the game, but I'm not feeling great about this bit of information.
I think that this will lower the skill level that one needs in order to be good at playing Skulk of course.
How it will change the game? What it means for everyone?
My feelings?
It's early in the game, but I'm not feeling great about this bit of information.
I think that this will lower the skill level that one needs in order to be good at playing Skulk of course.
Comments
Especially once they gave us +movement, it became even easier. fastswapping in the olde days was seriously high skill.
They've cited TF2 several times. One really <i>crappy</i> thing about TF2 is that the game has so little skill. It becomes dull and boring. I don't think this single feature is itself bad, but I hope that NS2 doesn't wind up like TF2 and this is on small step toward that direction.
I don't really understand your point about reducing the skill level. Skill is mastering a technique. As long as you can practice it deeper and deeper, there is no limit to skill.
Whatever they give us, there will be skills to master, and a good player, who has mastered the skills will always be better than a new player. And if the system is simple but open, than even the master can get better.
To me there is no easier on an infinite scale, and on top of that, the easier it is to do, the harder it is to master.
That's true. If a marine is in front of you, you have to know to leap forward and not to the right.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->To me there is no easier on an infinite scale, and on top of that, the easier it is to do, the harder it is to master.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Somehow I think this makes even less sense than the sentence I quoted above. But hey, that could just be me.
And perhaps instead of a bite, it should be a claw slash (as it is in NS1), but deal much more damage. Perhaps 50%-75% of bite damage instead of the paltry 20 or so it does nowadays (which amounts to what? 7 actual damage to HP due to armor-health calculations?) That would give an "auto-bite" feature, but <i>also</i> reward skilled players for being to leap and connect the actual bite.
From the Skulk reveal video, leap in NS2 seems much more slow/theatrical, instead of the "rocket leap" is now in NS1. Putting auto-bite after leap in NS1 would probably make things too easy, but I'm confident things will fit together in NS2.
I can't see it hurting "skilled" players who can simply turn this feature off with a click in a box in the options, and it could only help "newbies" who have the survive the baptism of fire anyways. It can only help.
So clanners and "veterans" have their "skill ability" and newbies have their "chance to kill anything at all ability".
And to all those naysayers for auto-bite after leap: Guess what? Being a skulk really sucks in NS1. It's the lowest of the low. Maybe *this* is Unknown Worlds' way of beefing up the skulk in terms of combat ability in NS2. I hope this isn't the only thing, but it should help.
Hey I'm an 'artist' so i bet people don't understand me much :p!! I've got skills I constantly study and constantly learn to master as well, so these things are obvious to me, maybe not to everyone...
It's like painting for example. Taking a brush, dip in paint, and wipe it on canvas. That's pretty easy to do right? Does that make mastering painting an easy thing? You can be Picasso, you still evolve and still get better as time goes by.
Another example, playing an instrument, Hitting a drum ain't a hard action is it. Does that lower the skill level of drumming?
Another example, of a game I really like and should be an important influence to gamers. Chess. Such a simple game with simple rules. But so much of a challenge because of your opponent. What should be a challenge is beating your opponent. Not learning the mechanics of getting your thing to work.
Is skill for you getting to work something that is hard to handle? Or doing crazy stuff with something easy to handle? I hope I have made myself clear this time.
In fact, I see no benefit at all.
Prefer it the old way.
Now that leap is alt-fire for bite, it should help newer players getting used to the skulk. THAT ALONE removes some skill gap between players (and it's a big one)
But why the autobite? I know you guys are trying to make it more newb-friendly, but it isn't necessary to completely dumb it down. now everyone can excel in a game merely by leaping? where is the skill?
and what about the fact that we didn't always WANT to bite... leaping into a base with a marine was a great strategy to leap around and prevent the com (and other marines) from seeing a blinking red structure. you get hit a little yes, but the marine is left shooting aimlessly while his ammo is - depleted. then come in with the real attack. with autobite it might AUTObite the structure because of it's range and thus remove some element of surprise.
leaping with silence prevented any sound from bite being heard. so you could literally leap between marines and some marines would literally be unsure that there is even a skulk around. no sound when you didn't bite (not the bite itself but the sound that accompanied a bite hit would be heard w/ silence)...
I dunno... I might be overreacting but that is just my initial response.
Are we going to get auto fire when I swing my crosshair over a skulk also?
autobite? Isn't the point of actually implementing simultaneous bite/leap capability so that you can bite after leaping? Seems not only redundant but a little patronizing. I vote for a dump, after all if lerks could still bite would you guys implement auto-bite for them too?
<!--quoteo(post=1733074:date=Oct 20 2009, 08:39 PM:name=Psyke)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Psyke @ Oct 20 2009, 08:39 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1733074"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->An auto-bite, with the in-mouth cam, will just serve to disorient players unfamiliar with the game.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
On second though: Biting on contact really does not take that much skill anyway... The more skilled players will likely bypass this feature by flying OVER the frontiermen and biting them WITHOUT making contact, which increases survivability for the skulk in situations where stopping on a marine to bite him will surely get you killed by another marine.
HOWEVER, I agree that it's best if the auto-attack would be a stab (or slash) that's a little less effective than the bite. Therefore there is a reward for doing the manual bite right before contact(but close enough to connect). Or right after contact... to do stab/bite combo.
Another fellow inquired about its usefulness against jetpackers too, and how actually touching a marine was generally harder than just biting them, which had a little bit of range.
And I'm not even happy with setting leap as the alternate fire for bite! What if we want to xeno and leap? Which now that I think about it, I'm not sure if they even announced xeno...
In fact, I see no benefit at all.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
eh, i think your just a bit scared of change.
What i posted on twitter thread
lolling at the flaming of an ability that they haven't seen just because they think it takes away skill from a game they haven't seen anything in game of yet.
So you never want the game to auto reload for you when you run out of bullets? just because it takes the skill away, you saying that the auto crouching when going into vents for left 4 dead isn't good just because it does a thing you should do for you? Its so much more well lets just say something that the game does for you, but you never really thought about it, as a skulk they made it just walk up to a wall and you run on it. There probably are many more of these things, small but affecting your gameplay experience(most of the time- for the better).
If they throw this idea away just like they did with the tazer jsut because you guys didn't see it ingame and it wasn't a replica of the ns1 sniper pistol.(which i admit was good-served useful even at late game) i donno this game will turn out to be a flop because the developers never got to try much new. And that's a lot of the times a bad thing.
The skulk, will instinctively bite the enemy- you are a untamed beast, with a threat on your hive, The player should feel instinctive and i think thats the approach that they might be taking with this.
No one wants to frantically leap around hoping to automatically tag a marine, especially because the new leap is suppose to be even more of a standard movement mechanic than NS1 leap.
Totally agree.
They might have thought autobite is good because it makes it more accessible to new players, but I really think automating attacks with an in-mouth camera will just serve to further disorient players. I know when I hop back into NS it takes some getting used to to lose my vision for a split second when I attack. Imagine if that wasn't even under my control.
So, it doesn't really help the new players.
As you said, the timing is extremely satisfying. I am all for alt-fire being leap, because that's what I had set up in NS1 anyways (+movement was bound to mouse2), but I don't see the point of adding the automatic attack. If you're going to add it onto leap, why not also make the skulk automatically bite whenever you run by a marine?
Might as well just make alternate fire for skulks leap ,) ... maybe not, but I cant imagine imagine it being anything other than leap for xeno.
What i posted on twitter thread
lolling at the flaming of an ability that they haven't seen just because they think it takes away skill from a game they haven't seen anything in game of yet.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Are you incapable of critical thinking? You don't have to see something in action to conceptually imagine it.
<!--quoteo(post=1733086:date=Oct 20 2009, 10:00 PM:name=Tha)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Tha @ Oct 20 2009, 10:00 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1733086"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->So you never want the game to auto reload for you when you run out of bullets? just because it takes the skill away, you saying that the auto crouching when going into vents for left 4 dead isn't good just because it does a thing you should do for you?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Bite timing is a key component of the NS1 movement minigame between opponents. Bite timing changes depending on your opponent's decisions; it is a game mechanic. Auto-reloading is not a game mechanic nor is auto-crouching into vents. An opponent's decisions does not affect a players decision to reload once they are empty or crouch when entering a vent. Your argument is totally irrelevant.
No one wants to frantically leap around hoping to automatically tag a marine, especially because the new leap is suppose to be even more of a standard movement mechanic than NS1 leap.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
QFT
Bite timing is fun to get better at, and would seriously dull gameplay (as a skulk anyways) and possibly make it too easy if taken away. Even so, it's not like bite timing was too hard in the first place to warrant something like this.