Natural Selection 2 News Update - Knife + Pistol = Taser?

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Comments

  • Mr. EpicMr. Epic Join Date: 2003-08-01 Member: 18660Members, Constellation
    I think I misread the original news piece... "It also means one less weapon to concept, model, texture, rig and animate!"


    That to me sounds crazy. How difficult would it be to do a knife and pistol that already exist? I would think that the argument is nullified by the experimental nature of this concept. Go ahead and try it if you want, thats why there is an ALPHA (right?) and eventually a beta... but please don't exclude the others and hope to integrate the two to save some time. Count on the knife and pistol, even as the back. Is it so hard?
  • PricePrice Join Date: 2003-09-27 Member: 21247Members
    Very good the game supports Lua...i see a lot of changes there.
  • homicidehomicide Join Date: 2003-11-10 Member: 22451Members
    It is a shame that this will remove the only 'long-range' marine weapon. Without some kind of long-range weapon I foresee obnoxious aliens playing at the end of long hallways. However, the overall concept seems decent.
  • DuskstalkerDuskstalker Join Date: 2007-09-18 Member: 62351Members
    <!--quoteo(post=1718889:date=Jul 23 2009, 10:32 AM:name=homicide)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (homicide @ Jul 23 2009, 10:32 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1718889"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->It is a shame that this will remove the only 'long-range' marine weapon. Without some kind of long-range weapon I foresee obnoxious aliens playing at the end of long hallways. However, the overall concept seems decent.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    How do you know they aren't adding a long range marine weapon?

    Also I personally like the idea of a marine carrying a taser around, it makes sense that the marines would want to carry around a weapon that had the potential to just give a shock rather then kill, after all if the marines needed to break up a fight between their own members or stop some kind of assault (female marines added might be a nice alternative to carrying mace :P) having a non lethal weapon on you is good. And chances are that you wouldn't leave it in the locker room whilst you went to battle the aliens, so to me the concept makes sense.

    Plus who wants to be carrying a knife, a pistol and an lmg and maybe a welder.. oh and some mines... maybe some grenades on them all the time. It would make sense for the rines to try and reduce the amount they had to hold even if it was by only one.
  • CoolCookieCooksCoolCookieCooks Pretty Girl Join Date: 2003-05-18 Member: 16446Members, NS1 Playtester, Contributor, Constellation
    Retales comic about NS1 has become true!

    <img src="http://c3.thesevens.net/29.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
  • odaeyssodaeyss Join Date: 2005-05-13 Member: 51517Members
    Think I might like the idea, though it'll be a fine line to walk making it strong enough to not feel like running with a welder in ns1, and weak enough that it's not op.. strange mechanic.
    but honestly I don't care for the artwork very much. the design side of it, that is.. it's too.. taser. i mean, it IS a taser. this is the future, make it different.. more electrodes, maybe a billy club looking affair? .. ohh, or a buckler. That'd fit in well with the charged secondary fire on it making a wall -- base it on the idea of a buckler, if it's going to be more of a last-resort defensive, not offensive, weapon. Plus that'd probably look freaking crazy.
  • Dalin SeivewrightDalin Seivewright 0x0000221E Join Date: 2007-10-20 Member: 62685Members, Constellation
    <a href="http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601103&sid=aR6xHcnBMn9M" target="_blank">Taser Sues Second Life Virtual World Creator Over Gun Sales</a>

    If Microsoft has to obey different "rules" because they're a Monopoly, I think Trademarks like "Taser" and "Kleenex" and all other words that have grown into common usage ("Band-aid" is another one) should immediately lose their status as Trademarked and can therefore no longer be trademarked by anyone. The sheer idiocy!
  • CrispyCrispy Jaded GD Join Date: 2004-08-22 Member: 30793Members, Constellation
    <!--quoteo(post=1718715:date=Jul 22 2009, 08:35 PM:name=Zamma)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Zamma @ Jul 22 2009, 08:35 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1718715"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->"A backup ranged weapon that could be used when your primary weapon couldn't be used" - Yeah? So what? Like all games have this. It's the fundamental of most games, you have your primary weapon, generally the one with the big clip size for general killing, your secondary for backup use when your primary is out (or for use in specialist situations, i.e. at RANGE), and then your classic melee weapon.

    ALSO

    How is the pistol an uber weapon!?
    Ever since the cap was added to the RoF, the pistol is a very balanced, yet key weapon in NS.

    Although I think half of what you wrote on your update page was complete bull. I don't want to have a dig, as it's too early to say how the taser will affect gameplay.

    But in all honesty, I think you are making a risky (and more likely bad) move.

    Yet we will see. GL

    p.s. It's nice to see you're thinking about the game in so much depth, but I feel you need actual PLAYER experience on your side. People who actually play games on a common basis.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->Couldn't disagree more. The Pistol is very powerful in NS and more accurate than any other weapon in the game with no damage falloff. Compared to the LMG it has higher DPS (not including magazine limitation). The rate of fire on the pistol can still be increased beyond what most players are capable of via some clever binding (i.e. the fix didn't completely work). I like the Pistol in NS because I'm used to it, but I think this is not only more unique to other games, it's an elegant way of streamlining the inventory and reducing dev time.

    <!--quoteo(post=1718718:date=Jul 22 2009, 08:40 PM:name=Delphic)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Delphic @ Jul 22 2009, 08:40 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1718718"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Couple of concerns though,

    i) won't making the electricity / sparks / chain look good take a lot of effort compared to a pistol / knife, so would you really be saving there?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->Probably not, since the electricity could be created out of 2D sprites and particle effects instead of 3D stuff. Even if the beam is 3D, it's 1 weapon versus 2 fully concepted, modelled, textured, rigged animated weapons with sound effects, balance testing and HUD sprites to boot.

    <!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->ii) I'm not sure I see a way of animating the melee mode in any way that doesn't look pansy-ish. I mean if you went to poke something with that gripping the handle / hilt, if they were moving with any speed or power it'd get knocked out of your hand surely? Just worried that it'll lack the brutality that melee weapon animations should have a least some degree of.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->I agree with this. Tasers just aren't very military. They have a reputation for being either stealthy or non-lethal, so making them feel powerful will take some polish.

    <!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->iii) I don't think that firing darts into multi-structures and waiting till they go splat will really be any less monotonous than knifing it, unless it's quicker... but if it's quicker how are you planning to balance it? Presumably you wouldn't be able to do this - even with extreme skills - to OCs or they'd be kinda pointless.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->I think it would be best if they allowed the Taser to do a 'full discharge' burst that would only work in close proximity but could take a structure down to 75% health in one shot from one Marine. The 'burst' would recharge very slowly, meaning lots of marines could takre a structure down very quickly, but a single Marine would still only be able to do a quick burst and then resort to depleting primary weapon ammo to kill the structure quicker. What I don't think is that Marines should be able to destroy a structure from range without depleting their primary weapon's ammo. The knife made Marines vulnerable while attacking RTs solo. This concept needs to stay for NS2.
  • RhodriRhodri Join Date: 2003-06-21 Member: 17575Members
    Personally I'm not a fan of the design itself at-all. It feels far to civilian and tame - I just feel it needs to be more aggressive and military. I think a big part of this is how it's held, will it really be held one handed like in the sketch (like a large candle lighter) or two handed?

    As for it's in game implamentation I think Aegix's post above is extremely clear and well thought out and would solve all of my concerns about the taser design. Cookie for you :)
  • Cereal_KillRCereal_KillR Join Date: 2002-10-31 Member: 1837Members
    So, what's the alien equivalent? Marine structure-knifing is similar to skulk structure-biting: get close, press a button, wait...


    I'm having mixed feelings for this taser. I do agree that the pistol in NS1 didn't really play the role of a sidearm, but rather as an opportunity weapon.

    For structure destruction, there should be something closer to sappers/combat engineers: you need to get in close and vulnerable, and set a device that would eventually destroy said structure. The knife, while not perfectly emulating this specialized combat role, does make you get in close and vulnerable. I am definitely not saying we need explosive charges to take care of structures, but taking care of structures requires a certain method that should be very different from the live-target treatment. Perhaps, if you really want to go the taser way, the need to go near the structure and plant a stronger transponder?
    I find that tasing chambers just feels off. Standing there in front of a hive shocking it to death doesn't seem nearly as effective as slicing through it. (Just like the fact that running towards a skulk with a knife doesn't seem nearly as effective as frying it from afar).
    That being said, it does depend on how the secondary-fire mode looks...
  • AlignAlign Remain Calm Join Date: 2002-11-02 Member: 5216Forum Moderators, Constellation
    edited July 2009
    <!--quoteo(post=1718824:date=Jul 23 2009, 02:40 AM:name=Mut-hoe)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Mut-hoe @ Jul 23 2009, 02:40 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1718824"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->It seems to me that in NS 1, the marines were more about efficiency than snazzy technology. Look at the Siege cannon. It was really just a giant slug shooter and nothing more fancier.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    The Siege cannon was actually the most sci-fi item NS marines had - it used sonic waves in some freaky way I forget, while everything else was stuff we might've been able to produce today.

    <!--quoteo(post=1718841:date=Jul 23 2009, 05:04 AM:name=EmpV)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (EmpV @ Jul 23 2009, 05:04 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1718841"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->powering buildings<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    This sounds like a good excuse for the marines carrying tasers into the front lines.
  • schkorpioschkorpio I can mspaint Join Date: 2003-05-23 Member: 16635Members
    edited July 2009
    what about a collar type device that you plant at the (neck?)base of the resource tower, this then slowly electrifies the tower, unless chomped by aliens?

    edit: also i hope that the welder/blowtorch is an upgrade to the taser
  • whoppaXXLwhoppaXXL Join Date: 2006-11-03 Member: 58298Members, Reinforced - Shadow
    There must be even 5 different tazer sounds, because we will hear that all time. And they have to be good quality. Otherwise it would easily start to annoy.
    I like the idea of the Tazer. I dont like the Idea of making it the Secondary Weapon.

    This looks more like a good Item to purchase for yourself, having a little Supportweapon when the Heavies are going out.
    Or at advice to equip on your Main Weapon.

    Also the Design feels a bit too plumpy and looks like it slips easily out of your hand. Would be more heavier and dangerous looking if held in two hands.
    I can't imagine myself defending myself off an Onos or Fade with this. The Knife is more trusty even in this situation.

    The overall Design is good, but please think of considering and using it in another way.

    Your biggest fan.
  • DelphicDelphic Join Date: 2006-11-02 Member: 58262Members
    As anyone that's read through the entire thread will have been able to tell my my multiple posts, I'm swinging between liking this idea and worrying that's not quite right / wouldn't really save that much time and effort given it's complexity.

    I *think* I've settled to the opinion that it could work, but I think it needs to look more militaristic (a knuckle duster style addition to the handle just to hold it on your hand as it gets knocked as you strike would help, especially given the grip looks like you smack it out of their hand by slapping their wrist at the moment) and the electrical effects really need some work to make sure it looks like they are supposed to be a lethal electrical weapon, not an out and out stun gun (if that's making them slightly plasma esque or just really effective crackling I guess is up to the devs!).

    This amusingly could also form a generic sci-fi multi tool, where you zap stuff and magically it works!
    "want to hack that computer?" *ZZAAAPPP*
    "want to electrify that building?" *ZZZAAAPPP*
    "want to make the gorgie dance?" *ZZZZZAAAAPPPP*

    Additionally I think, the whole darts staying in things dependant on their speed is going to get far to complex to explain, just have it so it hits alien lifeforms and just a set amount of dmg (it can be instant or over half a second or over three, doesn't matter), and such that it places darts in a building which stay there and you use your secondary chain attack on (because lets face it you're not going to tag multiple aliens, and have them stick around not killing you and not going out of range whilst you queue up other aliens and then chain zap them). Finally, the building damage should require los and close proximity, so that you can't zap OCs (presuming they are in the game) easily and you can't easily find a safe place to hide from aliens whilst zapping - the tension of leaving yourself vulnerable is important!

    I'm sure all this has been considered but wanted to give my 2 cents, for the fourth time :s.
  • NasderoNasdero Join Date: 2008-11-11 Member: 65423Members
    Hey !! i got an important point i think!!!!

    first of all i love ns 1 and are really looking forward to ns2 BUUUUUT!!

    i dont want a teaser and i dont like it, the idea of a MODERN melee weapon is good ! but a teaser ? are the marines some kind of grannys trying to defend thier
    wallet ??? i dont like the design it looks to harmless and bulky. a knive is alway a good idea and were in the futere dont know what kinda material you could makes knifes of in the future?

    and finally planting your knife on an lmg would be a great solution stab melee! but serius do something the the teaser some electro shoks vs this damn aliens ?? nope

    honestly your Nasdero


    ps. i hope the devs read this !!!! plz !
  • ckreonckreon Join Date: 2009-06-30 Member: 67977Members
    I've seen a couple other people post sharing my concern with development time - and I'm just curious what everyone else's take on this is?

    I read that we would be getting an alpha and tools as early as August/September. Then I see posts like this discussing absolute core game play issues that are obviously still way up in the air!

    I recognize that it is the dev's game to do what they want with and release when they want, but I feel a bit deceived every time I read a news post displaying 'progress' and realize that how little they've actually accomplished toward core game development. I understand the engine probably took a good chunk of their time, but why then are we starting pre-orders now AND a promised 2009 release? I can't imagine anything beyond an alpha being released this year, yet alone the full game (which was promised in the FAQ at naturalselection2.com)! They might just squeak in a beta before the year turns, but at the current pace it seems unlikely.

    I guess either way it doesn't matter, and I'm not trying to stir the pot. I'm just curious how everyone else feels in regards to this.

    And hey, maybe I'll get surprised by the small, dedicated team working a miracle and getting it out in '09 - who knows!
  • barbbarb Join Date: 2008-11-04 Member: 65379Members
    I like the idea a lot.

    I am wondering though what the damage would be of a single shot with this one. I kind of like the way the pistol is in NS, as a last resort that can make quite a lot of damage but only for a short time. So I think the impact damage of the transponders and the rate of fire could be the same as the pistol, however since this I believe will have infinite amounts of ammo, it could have some sort of energy bar that recharges like the alien energy in NS.

    About it being a taser and all, I dont really think thats very weird. Electricity worked in NS 1, right? :)

    Also, slow moving projectiles? No thanks! I would want the transponder hits to be instant.
  • PricePrice Join Date: 2003-09-27 Member: 21247Members
    edited July 2009
    Maybe the UWE team play to much saints row 2...
    Price say : ,,Back to the roots!"
  • AkinAkin Join Date: 2003-05-16 Member: 16368Members, Constellation
    edited July 2009
    Problems with this idea:
    *Needs more nanites. I thought one of the concept of the Kharaa is that they could gain energy from a variety of sources, theoretically. They just happened to optimize themselves for the universal goo that resource nodes produce.
    *It doesn't look like a weapon, or military. Nor does it even look TSA flavored at all.
    *Taser is a registered trademark. You <i>will</i> get sued. The fact that the design looks nearly exactly like the 'non-lethal' weapon doesn't help you either.
    *You'll have to come up with a good explanation for why aliens aren't 'stunned' when struck, as stunning would kill the feel of the alien side.
    *Wait, so what is someone with a shotgun supposed to do medium range, or a GL against a single (fast-moving) skulk? I think the latter can be changed with whatever the GL alt-fire is though.

    If you do decide to go with this general idea:
    *Redesign the look. This does not <i>look</i> lethal at all. Perhaps if it looked a bit more like a pistol? Moreover, the design is rather anti-marine. TSA are very 'functional', not 'elegant', unlike most space-going Sci-fi.
    *As you are removing what becomes late-game the only accurate weapon in the game, and as 'sniper rifles' are 100% against both the feel and the backstory (remember, Kharaa can regenerate and are bacteria-based) of NS, I would suggest increasing the accuracy of the LMG, and/or having secondary fire be 'single fire mode' or 'slow fire mode' where the bullets are 100% accurate, and more damaging per round. This would make LMG actually useful in late-game, which goes with your whole theme of classes on the alien side not becoming useless late-game in NS2 that you talked about elsewhere.

    Alternative ideas:
    *A less accurate (or perhaps slower-firing) pistol (looking somewhat like a ns1 pistol) with a 'shock' mode for melee only
    *If all marines will have welder, make the alt-fire an attack, and make that the backup weapon or weapon of last resort. Should be coupled with changes to LMG as stated above, or keep the pistol in so shotgunners aren't screwed.
    *A knife with some stuff added so you can shock things short range via a single dart at a time. Hold alt-fire if you hit to continue damage, secondary fire would mostly be for building and other stationary targets. It could vaguely resemble a NS1 knife. Should be coupled with changes to LMG as stated above.

    Keep in mind, as the pistol and knife were the most iconic marine small arms in the game, a 100% removal of both might be a bad idea.

    <!--quoteo(post=1718758:date=Jul 22 2009, 04:06 PM:name=grepdashv)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (grepdashv @ Jul 22 2009, 04:06 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1718758"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->--Insert epic post here--<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Awesome post. There's some great analysis in here.

    edit for off-topic stuff:
    <!--quoteo(post=1718901:date=Jul 23 2009, 06:08 AM:name=Align)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Align @ Jul 23 2009, 06:08 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1718901"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->The Siege cannon was actually the most sci-fi item NS marines had - it used sonic waves in some freaky way I forget<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Actually, it was a gravity-wave or something, which is why it was only able to "aim" at structures, even back in 1.0x when it could hurt lifeforms that were near the structure.
  • SpaceMoogle5SpaceMoogle5 Join Date: 2003-06-23 Member: 17643Members, NS1 Playtester
    I could see a taser leading to an Onos BBQ! I think that the Onos could be very negatively affected by a quick taser gang bang, as a few marines could make short work of a dominant class like an Onos... just something to think about.

    The pistol is still deadly even after the speed cap, so to people who say it isn't either don't know how to bind their mouse wheel or have not dealt with a good marine. So the taser could very seriously affect how good players use their primary weapon.

    Pistol, Knife or Taser I think the spirit if the game is still very much intact!

    I love the idea guys, I am glad to see that things are coming together!
  • NinjiNinji Join Date: 2009-07-11 Member: 68109Members
    edited July 2009
    <b> scenario: </b>
    <i> Onos charges in and uses bone shield to evade taking damage from ranged weaponry. A lone marine comes up on the side of the onos *zap*. The rest of the marines get in line and taze the onos while others just shoot at him.</i>

    -----------------------------------------------------

    <i>Mmmm bbq onos, my favorite. Personally, I'd like to see a skulk semi-equivalent. The skulk could possibly use its leap to the same effect though a shorter(?) duration.


    Love the idea, but still requires refinement because I can already smell the bbq coming :D</i>
  • locallyunscenelocallyunscene Feeder of Trolls Join Date: 2002-12-25 Member: 11528Members, Constellation
    <!--quoteo(post=1718872:date=Jul 23 2009, 02:00 AM:name=aegix)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (aegix @ Jul 23 2009, 02:00 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1718872"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--><!--coloro:lightblue--><span style="color:lightblue"><!--/coloro--><b>Thoughts on the actual design:</b><!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->
    I think this overcomplicates things a bit.
    <ul><li>Having bullets only fire after a click is complete rather than the instant the mouse button is depressed (like all other FPS games) could make it feel really strange and laggy. </li><li>The fact that it takes marines a significant amount of time to take down multiple alien structures is a good thing. It gives the aliens a chance to respond.</li><li>In NS1 there is a tradeoff on the part of the marine when attacking a structure: you can either use you knife and become somewhat oblivious to approaching aliens because of your blocked vision and the knifing sound OR you can use your weapons to shoot the structure and become vulnerable to an attack during reload. The "tag and zap" of the taser removes both of those dangers.</li></ul>

    <!--coloro:lightblue--><span style="color:lightblue"><!--/coloro--><b>What I'd rather see:</b><!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->
    Similar weapon concept. I like the idea of an electrically based secondary weapon rather than a cookie cutter pistol.
    <u>Primary fire:</u> Essentially the same as the pistol in NS1. Shoots out projectiles that do a set amount of damage on impact. Maybe transponders that unload their entire charge instantly with a nice electric effect? :D I guess this attack could also do a weak initial hit with a short damage over time effect to differentiate it a bit. There are lots of options.
    <u>Secondary fire:</u> Electric arc. Similar to the right click functionality on the current concept. A melee only weapon, single target, but does an increasing amount of damage the longer it's on a target up to a suitable maximum (don't want nodes dying too fast).

    That design is far simpler and solves a lot of problems:
    <ul><li>It's intuitive. Everyone knows how a pistol works and with the help of a visual cue on the weapon like a charge bar, it would be obvious that damage is ramping up on the melee attack. It will also be obvious where the damage is coming from.</li><li>The ramping damage on the secondary fire lets marines take out structures relatively quickly but it also means it's very hard for them to get the upper hand on aliens in melee. It was always frustrating getting knifed as a skulk. The low initial damage means aliens will always be doing far more damage in a melee fight. You could also get a satisfying sizzle going on stationary players like eggs or afk gorges :D</li><li>It preserves the tradeoff between having time to react to incoming aliens and attacking a structure that a taser would remove.</li></ul><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Good post. I like the transponder and chaining idea too and would like to combine them.
  • N_3N_3 &#092;o/ Join Date: 2004-03-12 Member: 27291Members, Constellation
    i like the idea of the tazer being a newly developed weapon made especially for combating the kharaa and mass distribution. on the other hand it doesn't really feel right to combat viscous biting/slashing aliens that a tazer be used, and not something bigger like a chainsaw. if it had knockback/repellent properties it might make more sense, i.e you have to use a tazer to get an alien off a pinned marine.
  • BacillusBacillus Join Date: 2006-11-02 Member: 58241Members
    edited July 2009
    I think that calling it something else than 'Taser' is the first thing to do.
  • spellman23spellman23 NS1 Theorycraft Expert Join Date: 2007-05-17 Member: 60920Members
    <!--quoteo(post=1718872:date=Jul 23 2009, 06:00 AM:name=aegix)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (aegix @ Jul 23 2009, 06:00 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1718872"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--><!--coloro:lightblue--><span style="color:lightblue"><!--/coloro--><b>Thoughts on the actual design:</b><!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->
    I think this overcomplicates things a bit.
    <ul><li>Having bullets only fire after a click is complete rather than the instant the mouse button is depressed (like all other FPS games) could make it feel really strange and laggy. </li><li>The charged attack itself is a bit unintuitive I think, and could be especially frustrating for new players dying to it. Imagine you get tagged by a marine but then run around a corner and wait in ambush. You think you've escaped but suddenly you start taking an increasing amount of damage from no apparent source. </li><li>The fact that it takes marines a significant amount of time to take down multiple alien structures is a good thing. It gives the aliens a chance to respond.</li><li>In NS1 there is a tradeoff on the part of the marine when attacking a structure: you can either use you knife and become somewhat oblivious to approaching aliens because of your blocked vision and the knifing sound OR you can use your weapons to shoot the structure and become vulnerable to an attack during reload. The "tag and zap" of the taser removes both of those dangers.</li></ul>

    <!--coloro:lightblue--><span style="color:lightblue"><!--/coloro--><b>What I'd rather see:</b><!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->
    Similar weapon concept. I like the idea of an electrically based secondary weapon rather than a cookie cutter pistol.
    <u>Primary fire:</u> Essentially the same as the pistol in NS1. Shoots out projectiles that do a set amount of damage on impact. Maybe transponders that unload their entire charge instantly with a nice electric effect? :D I guess this attack could also do a weak initial hit with a short damage over time effect to differentiate it a bit. There are lots of options.
    <u>Secondary fire:</u> Electric arc. Similar to the right click functionality on the current concept. A melee only weapon, single target, but does an increasing amount of damage the longer it's on a target up to a suitable maximum (don't want nodes dying too fast).

    That design is far simpler and solves a lot of problems:
    <ul><li>It's intuitive. Everyone knows how a pistol works and with the help of a visual cue on the weapon like a charge bar, it would be obvious that damage is ramping up on the melee attack. It will also be obvious where the damage is coming from.</li><li>The ramping damage on the secondary fire lets marines take out structures relatively quickly but it also means it's very hard for them to get the upper hand on aliens in melee. It was always frustrating getting knifed as a skulk. The low initial damage means aliens will always be doing far more damage in a melee fight. You could also get a satisfying sizzle going on stationary players like eggs or afk gorges :D</li><li>It preserves the tradeoff between having time to react to incoming aliens and attacking a structure that a taser would remove.</li></ul><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    This is actually what I thought they were doing when I first read the post. A main fire that does set damage, and a ramping melee.

    Of course, we don't want the structure to go down too quickly. They have to give away your position and give time for the other team to respond.

    Another thing I was thinking of was charging the taser to make taking down the structures faster. However, you trade off for slower projectile. this makes it perfect against structures at full charge, and you can charge on your way to a structure shortening the time you're there killing it. But the moment you get attacked, you're likely to miss and waste all that time.
  • BadMouthBadMouth It ceases to be exclusive when you can have a custom member titl Join Date: 2004-05-21 Member: 28815Members
    I'm going to reserve most of my comments till when the thing actually comes out, so I can comment on it gameplay wise.

    But from what I know, I would have the "taser" look a bit more badass. It looks too weak for the moment, designed more to incapacitate rather than kill, as others have mentioned before me. And I would rather it do instant shock damage. Like you shoot, and the alien/building instantly gets damaged, instead of having to press another button or hold onto another button for damage. I prefer simplicity in these things.
  • RisingSunRisingSun Rising California Join Date: 2004-04-19 Member: 28015Members, Constellation, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow
    Instead of just agreeing with others I have hopefully come up with some constructive alternatives to repalce the taser idea which I am against.

    What if as a standard set of equipment would be 1. Primary weapon (Lmg, HMG, shotgun, GL). 2. Get rid of the pistol all together, have a knife with an electiric aura around it much like an electified rt in ns1. The knife could do great damage to structures since they have little armor but weak damage to aliens because of their thick skin they are hatched with. You could have a secondary fire that could be charged making it glow or the electricity build. When released it sends out a short range wave at a 180 degree horizontal slash. 3. Start with a welder. Since it sounds like the commander won't be in charge of the weapon distribution anymore. I believe it would be a cheap alternative. It can be argued the pistol is a main stay in modern fps's but not required if you guys are against it. (I personally loved the ns1 weapons as they were. Ton down the pistol a little and it would be great.) all in all awesome job so far devs, but in my humble opinion this taser idea if it gets implemented could ruin a lot. Function aside, the thought of going to war with blood thirsty aliens ( and cuddly gorges) and being issued a taser? Kinda silly if you ask me, no offense to the person who had the idea. At least they arethinking outside the ns1 box. =)

    pardon my post, on an iPhone at work. NS forever!
  • hhdropbaudhhdropbaud Join Date: 2009-07-07 Member: 68070Members
    Why not make it a transformable Plasma torch weapon?
    It starts out as a torch, with low range directional.. Using your opposite click transforms it into a recharging ammo, High Intensity Plasma Knife / Cutter?
    And why not add to it's functionality to it, Remove the weldable spots and rename it to uncharged system panel and
    make it a scripted action so you are unable to do anything until you hit the use key again!
    Giving the skulks plenty of time eat the marine that's doing the charging?

    Panels without main power grid power, By researching the "charging" option for the Plasma torch, you recharge these panels into operation.
    Now these systems could have 2 ways of charging depending on map maker, Recharge to FIX or recharge for a set time.
    Of course you could give it a downside.. Make it burn marines also?

    There is a host of option's open for for this sorta low range sorta weapon, and upgrades to go along with it!
    Even with the Tazer.

    Other then that I think the Idea of the tazer is awesome.. But I rather not see 6 marines walking in formation with tazer's killing a group of skulks like no tomorrow with linked charges.
  • whoppaXXLwhoppaXXL Join Date: 2006-11-03 Member: 58298Members, Reinforced - Shadow
    Kharaa are the Masters of Evolution - don't they just can adapt at electricity?
  • TriggermanTriggerman Graphic Artist Join Date: 2004-11-10 Member: 32724Members, WC 2013 - Supporter
    I'm going to voice my opinion, and that is that rays of electricity running all over the place when assaulting anything is just not NS to me at least.
    The concept is a bit complex and taking down structures... well honestly is there any way to make that fun?

    A bad suggestion from me would be having the lesser Kharaa structure have four 'veins' on the outside of it that takes a certain amount of damage before it breaks would at the very least give the player motive to move around so he's not sitting at the most tactical corner of it. The idea of stringing several marine's taser-fire together is okay but it's hardly doable, since at least one of them should have ammunition on their main-weapon and the charge taking time would make anything higher than a gorge impossible to kill with a team-effort, let alone more than one of those targets.

    Also, Tasers is honestly the same as 'stun' in everyone's eyes. Isn't there a better weapon to get inspiriation from that could tie the melee and secondary ranged weapon together?
    I can see how a taser in a real-life situation for a Marine could be useful, (a Skulk is on top of you and charge it with a hefty dose so it falls down and with the heel of your boots you end it) but then only if it actually stunned the target; which it just can't in this game or it will completely ruin the gameplay for the aliens. I'm not a gun fanatic but it made more sense to bring something like that up if stunning the target is out of the question.
    The design wants a bit too much and tying it to a non-lethal real-life weapon isn't making it look any better I'm afraid.

    I think what NS should stick to is bullets, the effects of nanites that is impossible to see with the naked eye and just staying the heck away from anything (visually) remotely close to Star Trek.
    Or electricity.
    Whole teams using it.

    T.L.D.R: The gameplay idea is a refreshing one, but it's just not quite 'it' in my book. It's a bit too complex and the reference for this weapon makes it look a bit silly.
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