Let the Marines set up small patches of long, narrow spikes (lets say a 10 foot square with spikes 8 feet tall and 3 feet apart) to impale an onos that unwittingly jumps on any marines that might be standing within the spike field. The spikes must be tall and narrow so Marines and lower lifeforms can maneuver within the field and fall down between the spikes without being injured themselves.
It would be somewhat analogous to webs, except it would be fatal for Onoses; other lifeforms would be unaffected. Perhaps they could even run through the base of the spikes to destroy them, allowing for safe passage of an Onos.
<!--quoteo(post=1622003:date=Apr 19 2007, 11:07 PM:name=Bigbio2002)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Bigbio2002 @ Apr 19 2007, 11:07 PM) [snapback]1622003[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> Quick idea to counter a jumping Onos: spike pits.
Let the Marines set up small patches of long, narrow spikes (lets say a 10 foot square with spikes 8 feet tall and 3 feet apart) to impale an onos that unwittingly jumps on any marines that might be standing within the spike field. The spikes must be tall and narrow so Marines and lower lifeforms can maneuver within the field and fall down between the spikes without being injured themselves.
It would be somewhat analogous to webs, except it would be fatal for Onoses; other lifeforms would be unaffected. Perhaps they could even run through the base of the spikes to destroy them, allowing for safe passage of an Onos. <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
It can be used in sense of a trap, but as most crush kills probably is based on a second of opportunity it wouldn't have much function.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> Everybody is afraid to some degree of new ideas. So don't tell me you aren't at all. <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I didn't, perhaps I should had explained a bit more, I was refering mostly to this thread then universally.
LiquidMetal is weakened when hot, then that could explain the Heavy Armor loss while and onos is siting on him =P
I thought of a new invention after reading the artical about traps. Could the HA suits just be equiped with a quick boost function like on Armor Core 4 that you can upgrade after you get mt?
Explain: Onos Jumps off high object, the motion tracking picks up the free falling onoses and sends a signal to a boost pack on the back of the heavy. The computer in the heavy, with the help of the mt upgrade tracks the onos and fires up the booster pack, when this happens alarms go off in the heavys hud warning the player to finish activating the boosters. If the player double tabs space bar are something he is flung, uncontrollably in a direction away from the onos bomb.
This idea shouldnt be turned into Flying heavys, just an emergency function to help save maybe one heavy. (wouldnt work against stomp, devour, webs, anything else you can think of.)
It would be really cool if the Thrusters heated up and u could see them smoldering red on the back of the suit, and again since liquidMetal is weaker when its hot, the marine would loss some armor.
The Broken parts post was really neat, I hope the developers add it.
I have one question and one question only, that goes back to alittle bit of what this topic was about. How the hell does a onos clime a latter in the first place? I mean is that phyiscal possible??? Lol, find a answer to that one.
Anyways, If you want to even out HA's vs onos, cant there just be a away for a Ha to grip the onos and have a strength contest. Something like on Zelda twilight princess. Where the one gets thrown a side. I mean the Ha got the hydrolic power, and the onos is got the muslces.
<!--quoteo(post=1622039:date=Apr 20 2007, 12:53 AM:name=DarkRavin)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(DarkRavin @ Apr 20 2007, 12:53 AM) [snapback]1622039[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> I have one question and one question only, that goes back to alittle bit of what this topic was about. How the hell does a onos clime a latter in the first place? I mean is that phyiscal possible??? Lol, find a answer to that one.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Already been discussed in another thread.
Anyways, the thrusters idea was pretty good, but the spike pit? No. Bad.
That's worse than the idea of an onos landing on someone. HA marines could live. Onoses dying in one hit because of a trench with spikes? All marines have to do Is do that to their base, and viola, instant onos-protection...
<!--quoteo(post=1622171:date=Apr 20 2007, 09:21 PM:name=Moving_Target0)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Moving_Target0 @ Apr 20 2007, 09:21 PM) [snapback]1622171[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> Already been discussed in another thread.
Anyways, the thrusters idea was pretty good, but the spike pit? No. Bad.
That's worse than the idea of an onos landing on someone. HA marines could live. Onoses dying in one hit because of a trench with spikes? All marines have to do Is do that to their base, and viola, instant onos-protection... <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
He did say the spikes could be destoyed if you attacked em, and they only work if you fell on them.
<!--quoteo(post=1622469:date=Apr 22 2007, 07:51 PM:name=Svenpa)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Svenpa @ Apr 22 2007, 07:51 PM) [snapback]1622469[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> He did say the spikes could be destoyed if you attacked em, and they only work if you fell on them. <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yeah, but if you thought there was exploit potential in a falling onos...
In the interests of creativity, here's my suggestion for Falling Onos damage...
I believe that the current system only deals falling damage to creatures who strike the ground, and creatures who land on other creatures get off free. First you'd have to change this and say creatures landing on other creatures still took normal fall damage based on their speed at landing. Next say they also deal 1/2 that much fall damage to whatever unit they landed on. (Creatures that don't normally take fall damage from hitting the ground, eg skulks, also won't take or deal fall damage for landing on another creature).
Finally, say that if an Onos lands on you, instead of dealing 1/2 the fall damage they took, they deal 2x the fall damage instead. This is fall damage instead of regular damage, so it ignores armor and goes straight to health. This means the Onos has to jump off a ledge high enough to deal 50 damage to himself in order to get an instant kill on any marine, including HAs. If he jumps from a low enough height not to take any damage himself, he doesn't deal damage to whatever he fell on either.
Potential for abuse is very low because the crushing damage doesn't come into play until the Onos is falling far enough to hurt humself, which requires a fairly high jump point. Simply bunny hopping off the head of a friendly gorge won't cut it. It won't actually come into play very often, but when it does, it will be really cool.
If 2x damage is too weak, you could bump it up to 4x so the Onos only needs to find a 25 HP-level fall.
That will depend on map features. You won't be able to do it at all in a flat room, but you can do it easy by jumping down an elevator shaft or something like that.
You can fall a pretty respectable distance without taking any damage at all, but once you start taking damage, it stacks up very fast with just a little extra distance.
For comparison, sliding off the railing at Triad in NS_Eclipse and landing on the railings below deals about 23 fall damage. Jumping off the top railing and landing on the floor below is around 40 I think, but I'm usually trying to reduce fall speed rather than increase it, so I'm not entirely sure.
4x would be better than 2x I think, since 50 damage falls are pretty rare on NS maps.
KassingerShades of greyJoin Date: 2002-02-20Member: 229Members, Constellation
<!--quoteo(post=1623089:date=Apr 26 2007, 02:42 AM:name=Cxwf)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Cxwf @ Apr 26 2007, 02:42 AM) [snapback]1623089[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> I believe that the current system only deals falling damage to creatures who strike the ground, and creatures who land on other creatures get off free. First you'd have to change this and say creatures landing on other creatures still took normal fall damage based on their speed at landing. <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Have you ever played the (oh noes, custom!) map xsim? In this map there is a huge pit marines must jump down to weld open a door. On the bottom there is water, so you don't take damage falling down. Except if you land on a creature. The only job an onos has in this map is run around attempting to catch rines falling down. :)
When it comes to Onos causing damage when falling on somebody, it take this nearly as granted for NS2. And then some way Cxwf suggested it, not being that dangerous and easy to get kills from. I can't imagine it being used much except like in elevators. And imagine the tradeoff, you jump down on a bunch of rines taking the elevator up, but you get to a point you easily can be ambushed,, being shot at while taking the elevator up again.
There isn't much exploit potential in spike pits, since they can only cause damage if something actually falls on top of it. You couldn't spam MS with spikes like you do with mines, because the spikes would be on ground level. The only way for this to be exploited would be if MS was only accessible via a large hole in the ceiling (which is highly unlikely, and probably bad map design). The spike traps would be designed for placement at the base of elevator shafts and whatnot, so they couldn't be used to simply block an onoses path in standard hallways
locallyunsceneFeeder of TrollsJoin Date: 2002-12-25Member: 11528Members, Constellation
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> In the interests of creativity, here's my suggestion for Falling Onos damage...
I believe that the current system only deals falling damage to creatures who strike the ground, and creatures who land on other creatures get off free. First you'd have to change this and say creatures landing on other creatures still took normal fall damage based on their speed at landing. Next say they also deal 1/2 that much fall damage to whatever unit they landed on. (Creatures that don't normally take fall damage from hitting the ground, eg skulks, also won't take or deal fall damage for landing on another creature).
Finally, say that if an Onos lands on you, instead of dealing 1/2 the fall damage they took, they deal 2x the fall damage instead. This is fall damage instead of regular damage, so it ignores armor and goes straight to health. This means the Onos has to jump off a ledge high enough to deal 50 damage to himself in order to get an instant kill on any marine, including HAs. If he jumps from a low enough height not to take any damage himself, he doesn't deal damage to whatever he fell on either.
Potential for abuse is very low because the crushing damage doesn't come into play until the Onos is falling far enough to hurt humself, which requires a fairly high jump point. Simply bunny hopping off the head of a friendly gorge won't cut it. It won't actually come into play very often, but when it does, it will be really cool.
If 2x damage is too weak, you could bump it up to 4x so the Onos only needs to find a 25 HP-level fall. <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This sounds complicated. Why is there so much math involved!?
Seriously though I like the idea. If you fall from a hieght that hurts you and land on something metal it will hurt you. It will also hurt the metal thing underneith you (if you're an onos).
<!--quoteo(post=1615470:date=Mar 19 2007, 12:38 AM:name=Buzzou)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Buzzou @ Mar 19 2007, 12:38 AM) [snapback]1615470[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> hell yeah! i hope these ideas are implemented!
<!--coloro:#FF0000--><span style="color:#FF0000"><!--/coloro-->2 TON SPACE COW FTW!!!<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc--> <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--quoteo(post=1625873:date=May 9 2007, 04:58 PM:name=locallyunscene)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(locallyunscene @ May 9 2007, 04:58 PM) [snapback]1625873[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> This sounds complicated. Why is there so much math involved!?
Seriously though I like the idea. If you fall from a hieght that hurts you and land on something metal it will hurt you. It will also hurt the metal thing underneith you (if you're an onos). <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Here's the thing, why not have all falling objects have some sort of impact on the objects they land on?
We really need to realize as many ways to bring physics into the gameplay of Natural Selection 2, its plainly a block buster feature of Source.
Push crates off a ledge to defend against Kharaa below or have an Onos push a crate off a ledge on to the Marines below, perhaps. Use a welder or web to build physics traps to squash opponents, maybe.
If an onos manages to get on top of a rines head.......game over, rine dies, THE END. Do you know how many times i've landed on a rines head in NS? like..three times..total..ever. ?? seriously wow lol. It won't happen that often, and if an onos does manage it, he should be rewarded 110% w/ a server wide "humiliation kill", lol.
i don't understand where all the controversy is coming from. It's not like the situation even comes up often. How many chances does an onos have to fall on marines? Maybe as a joke skulks could boost an onos onto a high ceiling, but other than that there's very few uses. It's not like the onos doesn't already have a one-hit-kill weapon that's even more practical than this.
youre right guys, it doesnt happen often, but when it does, its very unrealistic, hence why people are requesting the physics be modified.
i'd be very happy if this could be reconfigured to allow dammage to the marine (or marine structure) that you land on, but i'm concerned about the realistic dammage to the onos.
for example some people have suggested things like the onos should still get their full 100% fall dammage (the same as landing on the ground), with the marine recieving an additional 50% dammage, which is just retarded.
firstly, if the onos lands on a marine, the marine's body will absorb a large part of the impact, therefore cushioning the onos's fall, resulting in less dammage to the onos, compared to landing on a hard concrete/metal surface that wont absorb any energy.
secondly, the onos will be landing on the marines head, which is 6ft above the ground, so the dammage wouldnt be the same as if he landed on the floor, as the fall will be 6ft shorter.
and i also think that the dammage incurred by the hapless marine should also be varied, depending on the length of the fall from the kamakazi space cow. a marine may be able to walk away from a small drop, say 5-10ft, but be bruised and have a few broken bones. a larger drop of 10-20ft should crush him, anything higher than that would result in a big splat, turning the marine into a gooey puddle.
also i definately think a marine would take much less dammage if he had Heavy Armor, as it would absorb a lot of the impact.
thats just my 2 cents anyways.
p.s. also if this is implemented and becomes very popular, maybe marines could research spiked shoulder pads to combat it? lolzors!
<!--quoteo(post=1626156:date=May 11 2007, 09:11 AM:name=Buzzou)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Buzzou @ May 11 2007, 09:11 AM) [snapback]1626156[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> youre right guys, it doesnt happen often, but when it does, its very unrealistic, hence why people are requesting the physics be modified.
i'd be very happy if this could be reconfigured to allow dammage to the marine (or marine structure) that you land on, but i'm concerned about the realistic dammage to the onos.
for example some people have suggested things like the onos should still get their full 100% fall dammage (the same as landing on the ground), with the marine recieving an additional 50% dammage, which is just retarded.
firstly, if the onos lands on a marine, the marine's body will absorb a large part of the impact, therefore cushioning the onos's fall, resulting in less dammage to the onos, compared to landing on a hard concrete/metal surface that wont absorb any energy.
secondly, the onos will be landing on the marines head, which is 6ft above the ground, so the dammage wouldnt be the same as if he landed on the floor, as the fall will be 6ft shorter.
and i also think that the dammage incurred by the hapless marine should also be varied, depending on the length of the fall from the kamakazi space cow. a marine may be able to walk away from a small drop, say 5-10ft, but be bruised and have a few broken bones. a larger drop of 10-20ft should crush him, anything higher than that would result in a big splat, turning the marine into a gooey puddle.
also i definately think a marine would take much less dammage if he had Heavy Armor, as it would absorb a lot of the impact.
thats just my 2 cents anyways.
p.s. also if this is implemented and becomes very popular, maybe marines could research spiked shoulder pads to combat it? lolzors! <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I agree with all of this, but I think that I might have to disagree / MSPaint the idea of a spiked shoulder pad.
<!--quoteo(post=1626156:date=May 11 2007, 05:11 PM:name=Buzzou)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Buzzou @ May 11 2007, 05:11 PM) [snapback]1626156[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> and i also think that the damage incurred by the hapless marine should also be varied, depending on the length of the fall from the kamakazi space cow. a marine may be able to walk away from a small drop, say 5-10ft, but be bruised and have a few broken bones. <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> I think a 0.0001ft drop warrants a crush. Have you tried holding up an elephant above your head.... Ka-splat.
<!--quoteo(post=1626339:date=May 12 2007, 03:07 PM:name=glimmerman)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(glimmerman @ May 12 2007, 03:07 PM) [snapback]1626339[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> I think a 0.0001ft drop warrants a crush. Have you tried holding up an elephant above your head.... Ka-splat. <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> good point, but people do get trampled by elephants and even rhino's and walk away with only a few broken bones, or even just bruises and shattered ego's. sure it would be a small percentage of these animal attacks, but people do survive it. and they are dumb tourists, not battle-hardened TSA marines. also you need to remember the game play has to be sort of fair. it wont be much fun if its insta-crush every time an onos jumps on you.
<!--quoteo(post=1620088:date=Apr 10 2007, 02:26 PM:name=DC_Darkling)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(DC_Darkling @ Apr 10 2007, 02:26 PM) [snapback]1620088[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> I like this idea.. hehe.. splat <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
What he said <img src="http://img486.imageshack.us/img486/5488/marineig7.gif" border="0" alt="IPB Image" /> Just make sure it 'fits in' and the Onos doesn't get too overpowered, they ARE the highest lifeform though.
Expanding on the Onos hurting people from heights theme, I present to you: <b>Devour 2.0</b> <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ikyvQs-VJ-Q" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ikyvQs-VJ-Q</a>
<!--quoteo(post=1626043:date=May 10 2007, 02:14 PM:name=MasterPTG)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(MasterPTG @ May 10 2007, 02:14 PM) [snapback]1626043[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> If an onos manages to get on top of a rines head.......game over, rine dies, THE END. Do you know how many times i've landed on a rines head in NS? like..three times..total..ever. ?? seriously wow lol. It won't happen that often, and if an onos does manage it, he should be rewarded 110% w/ a server wide "humiliation kill", lol. <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--quoteo(post=1626096:date=May 10 2007, 06:53 PM:name=scaryface)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(scaryface @ May 10 2007, 06:53 PM) [snapback]1626096[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> i don't understand where all the controversy is coming from. It's not like the situation even comes up often. How many chances does an onos have to fall on marines? Maybe as a joke skulks could boost an onos onto a high ceiling, but other than that there's very few uses. It's not like the onos doesn't already have a one-hit-kill weapon that's even more practical than this. <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--quoteo(post=1626619:date=May 14 2007, 03:04 AM:name=Zaggy)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Zaggy @ May 14 2007, 03:04 AM) [snapback]1626619[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> What he said Just make sure it 'fits in' and the Onos doesn't get too overpowered, they ARE the highest lifeform though. <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
QFT, all of the above! <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile-fix.gif" />
And as far as skulks boosting and onos up, Scaryface, they shouldn't be able to do that to begin with! Their claws should have a certain limit to the static coefficient of friction. If the force applied by the mass of an onos was on a skulk and the onos tried to stand on the skulk as it was attached to the wall the skulk would be pushed down. (possibly gouging claw marks into the wall with accompanying sparks)
<!--quoteo(post=1622003:date=Apr 19 2007, 05:07 PM:name=Bigbio2002)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Bigbio2002 @ Apr 19 2007, 05:07 PM) [snapback]1622003[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Quick idea to counter a jumping Onos: spike pits.
Let the Marines set up small patches of long, narrow spikes (lets say a 10 foot square with spikes 8 feet tall and 3 feet apart) to impale an onos that unwittingly jumps on any marines that might be standing within the spike field. The spikes must be tall and narrow so Marines and lower lifeforms can maneuver within the field and fall down between the spikes without being injured themselves.
It would be somewhat analogous to webs, except it would be fatal for Onoses; other lifeforms would be unaffected. Perhaps they could even run through the base of the spikes to destroy them, allowing for safe passage of an Onos. <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Oh hell no! You kind of deserved the stupid suggestion MSPaint on that one you know. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tounge.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tounge.gif" />
vote <b><!--coloro:#CC0000--><span style="color:#CC0000"><!--/coloro-->no<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc--></b> to the above. (PS: the onos should have it's legs broken after a fall like that anyways)
<!--quoteo(post=1626430:date=May 13 2007, 12:52 AM:name=Buzzou)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Buzzou @ May 13 2007, 12:52 AM) [snapback]1626430[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> good point, but people do get trampled by elephants and even rhino's and walk away with only a few broken bones, or even just bruises and shattered ego's. sure it would be a small percentage of these animal attacks, but people do survive it. and they are dumb tourists, not battle-hardened TSA marines. also you need to remember the game play has to be sort of fair. it wont be much fun if its insta-crush every time an onos jumps on you. <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yes, people do get away with broken bones and things of that sort, but those elephants and rhinos are really trying to kill you, now are they? The Onos on the other hand is a killing machine bent on molesting the marines...
I think that the idea of an onos crushing a marine is good, but it has a height limit. If the onos is right above, then the marine should obtain some damage but is knocked down. On the other hand, if the onos jumped for a different level and managed to land on a marine, then hey, its the stupid marines fault. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tounge.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tounge.gif" />
Why do you almost never land on marines? Because you dont try, why should you? It dosnt ATM give you any advantage at being ontop of a marine and especially it dosnt damage him, only you from the fall. If you got hell bent on landing or tricking marines under you it would occur alot more often, especially when on ladders.
Onos jump on head reward:
Now = Zero, before it was even a disadvantage, thus less trying.
After implent = Free instant killing from hive 1 bonus, marine dies, you suffer minimal damage, even if miss you can just take him down the normal way. If done perfectly you get 3 easy kills, 1 crushed, 1 Devoured 1 Killed. The first two are out of combat in a few seconds and the third cannot do much alone, further adv if stomp is active. Stomp goes as any weapon, after the hitbox. If one get struck in the chest they still get stunned and have minimal time to run away from a onos jumping on them. Also consider the Onos can do crouch jump, gaining the height needed even when just a slight bit over the marine.
Im pretty sure your all ###### at me for working against this idea but hell, it's a public forum.
<!--quoteo(post=1620949:date=Apr 14 2007, 10:29 AM:name=Moving_Target0)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Moving_Target0 @ Apr 14 2007, 10:29 AM) [snapback]1620949[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> At this point, it splits.
Situation A: Onos loses his nerve due to low HP and starts to back off. JP notices this, flies around the corner, and guns him down.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
That almost never happens.
<!--quoteo(post=1620949:date=Apr 14 2007, 10:29 AM:name=Moving_Target0)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Moving_Target0 @ Apr 14 2007, 10:29 AM) [snapback]1620949[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> Situation B: Onos stays put. JP barely goes around the corner to lure him out (on the farthest away side), flies backwards to avoid being eaten/gored, and guns the now exposed onos down.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Due to latency, slow acceleration of jet packs relative to onos and possibly a strafe jump from the onos, 9 times out of 10 the JP is devoured unless the corridor is really wide or the onos really sucky.
If you're a little more competent as a jp you might do a strafe turn to keep some speed. That sometimes works, but doesn't always lure the onos and there's no time to shoot it until it follows.
Situation C: JP knows the onos is at least somewhat competent and breaks of persuit instead of getting devoured.
<!--quoteo(post=1626888:date=May 15 2007, 09:33 AM:name=Svenpa)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Svenpa @ May 15 2007, 09:33 AM) [snapback]1626888[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> Why do you almost never land on marines? Because you dont try, why should you? It dosnt ATM give you any advantage at being ontop of a marine and especially it dosnt damage him, only you from the fall. If you got hell bent on landing or tricking marines under you it would occur alot more often, especially when on ladders.
Onos jump on head reward:
Now = Zero, before it was even a disadvantage, thus less trying.
After implent = Free instant killing from hive 1 bonus, marine dies, you suffer minimal damage, even if miss you can just take him down the normal way. If done perfectly you get 3 easy kills, 1 crushed, 1 Devoured 1 Killed. The first two are out of combat in a few seconds and the third cannot do much alone, further adv if stomp is active. Stomp goes as any weapon, after the hitbox. If one get struck in the chest they still get stunned and have minimal time to run away from a onos jumping on them. Also consider the Onos can do crouch jump, gaining the height needed even when just a slight bit over the marine.
Im pretty sure your all ###### at me for working against this idea but hell, it's a public forum. <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Thats why you should vote for my idea of dealing 4x your own fall damage, rather than instant killing. Much less potential for abuse, since you can't fall-kill people just by crouch jumping off a railing or anything, you actually need a good height to jump off of. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tounge.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tounge.gif" />
<!--quoteo(post=1629655:date=May 28 2007, 04:58 PM:name=Cxwf)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Cxwf @ May 28 2007, 04:58 PM) [snapback]1629655[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> Thats why you should vote for my idea of dealing 4x your own fall damage, rather than instant killing. Much less potential for abuse, since you can't fall-kill people just by crouch jumping off a railing or anything, you actually need a good height to jump off of. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tounge.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tounge.gif" /> <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yeah. That, and svenpa might actually realize that we're not saying a fall on a ladder can kill everything.
In response to soylent:
I was just making a point, I wasn't going for exact situations that happen most of the time. I was talking based upon personal experience when fighting onoses, or being the onos. Generally, situation A at that point occurs from a JP / HMG.
Situation B: You don't always even have to go around the corner. Grenades work well, as does shooting the onos if you can see a tiny part of him due to his obesity.
Comments
Let the Marines set up small patches of long, narrow spikes (lets say a 10 foot square with spikes 8 feet tall and 3 feet apart) to impale an onos that unwittingly jumps on any marines that might be standing within the spike field. The spikes must be tall and narrow so Marines and lower lifeforms can maneuver within the field and fall down between the spikes without being injured themselves.
It would be somewhat analogous to webs, except it would be fatal for Onoses; other lifeforms would be unaffected. Perhaps they could even run through the base of the spikes to destroy them, allowing for safe passage of an Onos.
Quick idea to counter a jumping Onos: spike pits.
Let the Marines set up small patches of long, narrow spikes (lets say a 10 foot square with spikes 8 feet tall and 3 feet apart) to impale an onos that unwittingly jumps on any marines that might be standing within the spike field. The spikes must be tall and narrow so Marines and lower lifeforms can maneuver within the field and fall down between the spikes without being injured themselves.
It would be somewhat analogous to webs, except it would be fatal for Onoses; other lifeforms would be unaffected. Perhaps they could even run through the base of the spikes to destroy them, allowing for safe passage of an Onos.
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It can be used in sense of a trap, but as most crush kills probably is based on a second of opportunity it wouldn't have much function.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> Everybody is afraid to some degree of new ideas. So don't tell me you aren't at all. <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I didn't, perhaps I should had explained a bit more, I was refering mostly to this thread then universally.
I thought of a new invention after reading the artical about traps. Could the HA suits just be equiped with a quick boost function like on Armor Core 4 that you can upgrade after you get mt?
Explain: Onos Jumps off high object, the motion tracking picks up the free falling onoses and sends a signal to a boost pack on the back of the heavy. The computer in the heavy, with the help of the mt upgrade tracks the onos and fires up the booster pack, when this happens alarms go off in the heavys hud warning the player to finish activating the boosters. If the player double tabs space bar are something he is flung, uncontrollably in a direction away from the onos bomb.
This idea shouldnt be turned into Flying heavys, just an emergency function to help save maybe one heavy. (wouldnt work against stomp, devour, webs, anything else you can think of.)
It would be really cool if the Thrusters heated up and u could see them smoldering red on the back of the suit, and again since liquidMetal is weaker when its hot, the marine would loss some armor.
The Broken parts post was really neat, I hope the developers add it.
Anyways, If you want to even out HA's vs onos, cant there just be a away for a Ha to grip the onos and have a strength contest. Something like on Zelda twilight princess. Where the one gets thrown a side. I mean the Ha got the hydrolic power, and the onos is got the muslces.
I have one question and one question only, that goes back to alittle bit of what this topic was about. How the hell does a onos clime a latter in the first place? I mean is that phyiscal possible??? Lol, find a answer to that one.
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Already been discussed in another thread.
Anyways, the thrusters idea was pretty good, but the spike pit? No. Bad.
That's worse than the idea of an onos landing on someone. HA marines could live. Onoses dying in one hit because of a trench with spikes? All marines have to do Is do that to their base, and viola, instant onos-protection...
Already been discussed in another thread.
Anyways, the thrusters idea was pretty good, but the spike pit? No. Bad.
That's worse than the idea of an onos landing on someone. HA marines could live. Onoses dying in one hit because of a trench with spikes? All marines have to do Is do that to their base, and viola, instant onos-protection...
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He did say the spikes could be destoyed if you attacked em, and they only work if you fell on them.
He did say the spikes could be destoyed if you attacked em, and they only work if you fell on them.
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Yeah, but if you thought there was exploit potential in a falling onos...
I believe that the current system only deals falling damage to creatures who strike the ground, and creatures who land on other creatures get off free. First you'd have to change this and say creatures landing on other creatures still took normal fall damage based on their speed at landing. Next say they also deal 1/2 that much fall damage to whatever unit they landed on. (Creatures that don't normally take fall damage from hitting the ground, eg skulks, also won't take or deal fall damage for landing on another creature).
Finally, say that if an Onos lands on you, instead of dealing 1/2 the fall damage they took, they deal 2x the fall damage instead. This is fall damage instead of regular damage, so it ignores armor and goes straight to health. This means the Onos has to jump off a ledge high enough to deal 50 damage to himself in order to get an instant kill on any marine, including HAs. If he jumps from a low enough height not to take any damage himself, he doesn't deal damage to whatever he fell on either.
Potential for abuse is very low because the crushing damage doesn't come into play until the Onos is falling far enough to hurt humself, which requires a fairly high jump point. Simply bunny hopping off the head of a friendly gorge won't cut it. It won't actually come into play very often, but when it does, it will be really cool.
If 2x damage is too weak, you could bump it up to 4x so the Onos only needs to find a 25 HP-level fall.
How's that for a suggestion?
You can fall a pretty respectable distance without taking any damage at all, but once you start taking damage, it stacks up very fast with just a little extra distance.
For comparison, sliding off the railing at Triad in NS_Eclipse and landing on the railings below deals about 23 fall damage. Jumping off the top railing and landing on the floor below is around 40 I think, but I'm usually trying to reduce fall speed rather than increase it, so I'm not entirely sure.
4x would be better than 2x I think, since 50 damage falls are pretty rare on NS maps.
I believe that the current system only deals falling damage to creatures who strike the ground, and creatures who land on other creatures get off free. First you'd have to change this and say creatures landing on other creatures still took normal fall damage based on their speed at landing.
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Have you ever played the (oh noes, custom!) map xsim? In this map there is a huge pit marines must jump down to weld open a door. On the bottom there is water, so you don't take damage falling down. Except if you land on a creature. The only job an onos has in this map is run around attempting to catch rines falling down. :)
When it comes to Onos causing damage when falling on somebody, it take this nearly as granted for NS2. And then some way Cxwf suggested it, not being that dangerous and easy to get kills from. I can't imagine it being used much except like in elevators. And imagine the tradeoff, you jump down on a bunch of rines taking the elevator up, but you get to a point you easily can be ambushed,, being shot at while taking the elevator up again.
I believe that the current system only deals falling damage to creatures who strike the ground, and creatures who land on other creatures get off free. First you'd have to change this and say creatures landing on other creatures still took normal fall damage based on their speed at landing. Next say they also deal 1/2 that much fall damage to whatever unit they landed on. (Creatures that don't normally take fall damage from hitting the ground, eg skulks, also won't take or deal fall damage for landing on another creature).
Finally, say that if an Onos lands on you, instead of dealing 1/2 the fall damage they took, they deal 2x the fall damage instead. This is fall damage instead of regular damage, so it ignores armor and goes straight to health. This means the Onos has to jump off a ledge high enough to deal 50 damage to himself in order to get an instant kill on any marine, including HAs. If he jumps from a low enough height not to take any damage himself, he doesn't deal damage to whatever he fell on either.
Potential for abuse is very low because the crushing damage doesn't come into play until the Onos is falling far enough to hurt humself, which requires a fairly high jump point. Simply bunny hopping off the head of a friendly gorge won't cut it. It won't actually come into play very often, but when it does, it will be really cool.
If 2x damage is too weak, you could bump it up to 4x so the Onos only needs to find a 25 HP-level fall.
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This sounds complicated. Why is there so much math involved!?
Seriously though I like the idea. If you fall from a hieght that hurts you and land on something metal it will hurt you. It will also hurt the metal thing underneith you (if you're an onos).
hell yeah! i hope these ideas are implemented!
<!--coloro:#FF0000--><span style="color:#FF0000"><!--/coloro-->2 TON SPACE COW FTW!!!<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->
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lol @ the 2 ton space cow comment.
This sounds complicated. Why is there so much math involved!?
Seriously though I like the idea. If you fall from a hieght that hurts you and land on something metal it will hurt you. It will also hurt the metal thing underneith you (if you're an onos).
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<img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tiny.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="::onos::" border="0" alt="tiny.gif" />
<img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/asrifle.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="::asrifle::" border="0" alt="asrifle.gif" />
Seems quite straight forward to me. Take an already existing system, falling damage, and apply it to other objects.
<img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/asrifle.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="::asrifle::" border="0" alt="asrifle.gif" />
<img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/skulk.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="::skulk::" border="0" alt="skulk.gif" />
Here's the thing, why not have all falling objects have some sort of impact on the objects they land on?
We really need to realize as many ways to bring physics into the gameplay of Natural Selection 2, its plainly a block buster feature of Source.
Push crates off a ledge to defend against Kharaa below or have an Onos push a crate off a ledge on to the Marines below, perhaps. Use a welder or web to build physics traps to squash opponents, maybe.
i'd be very happy if this could be reconfigured to allow dammage to the marine (or marine structure) that you land on, but i'm concerned about the realistic dammage to the onos.
for example some people have suggested things like the onos should still get their full 100% fall dammage (the same as landing on the ground), with the marine recieving an additional 50% dammage, which is just retarded.
firstly, if the onos lands on a marine, the marine's body will absorb a large part of the impact, therefore cushioning the onos's fall, resulting in less dammage to the onos, compared to landing on a hard concrete/metal surface that wont absorb any energy.
secondly, the onos will be landing on the marines head, which is 6ft above the ground, so the dammage wouldnt be the same as if he landed on the floor, as the fall will be 6ft shorter.
and i also think that the dammage incurred by the hapless marine should also be varied, depending on the length of the fall from the kamakazi space cow. a marine may be able to walk away from a small drop, say 5-10ft, but be bruised and have a few broken bones. a larger drop of 10-20ft should crush him, anything higher than that would result in a big splat, turning the marine into a gooey puddle.
also i definately think a marine would take much less dammage if he had Heavy Armor, as it would absorb a lot of the impact.
thats just my 2 cents anyways.
p.s. also if this is implemented and becomes very popular, maybe marines could research spiked shoulder pads to combat it? lolzors!
youre right guys, it doesnt happen often, but when it does, its very unrealistic, hence why people are requesting the physics be modified.
i'd be very happy if this could be reconfigured to allow dammage to the marine (or marine structure) that you land on, but i'm concerned about the realistic dammage to the onos.
for example some people have suggested things like the onos should still get their full 100% fall dammage (the same as landing on the ground), with the marine recieving an additional 50% dammage, which is just retarded.
firstly, if the onos lands on a marine, the marine's body will absorb a large part of the impact, therefore cushioning the onos's fall, resulting in less dammage to the onos, compared to landing on a hard concrete/metal surface that wont absorb any energy.
secondly, the onos will be landing on the marines head, which is 6ft above the ground, so the dammage wouldnt be the same as if he landed on the floor, as the fall will be 6ft shorter.
and i also think that the dammage incurred by the hapless marine should also be varied, depending on the length of the fall from the kamakazi space cow. a marine may be able to walk away from a small drop, say 5-10ft, but be bruised and have a few broken bones. a larger drop of 10-20ft should crush him, anything higher than that would result in a big splat, turning the marine into a gooey puddle.
also i definately think a marine would take much less dammage if he had Heavy Armor, as it would absorb a lot of the impact.
thats just my 2 cents anyways.
p.s. also if this is implemented and becomes very popular, maybe marines could research spiked shoulder pads to combat it? lolzors!
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I agree with all of this, but I think that I might have to disagree / MSPaint the idea of a spiked shoulder pad.
and i also think that the damage incurred by the hapless marine should also be varied, depending on the length of the fall from the kamakazi space cow. a marine may be able to walk away from a small drop, say 5-10ft, but be bruised and have a few broken bones.
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I think a 0.0001ft drop warrants a crush. Have you tried holding up an elephant above your head.... Ka-splat.
I think a 0.0001ft drop warrants a crush. Have you tried holding up an elephant above your head.... Ka-splat.
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good point, but people do get trampled by elephants and even rhino's and walk away with only a few broken bones, or even just bruises and shattered ego's. sure it would be a small percentage of these animal attacks, but people do survive it. and they are dumb tourists, not battle-hardened TSA marines.
also you need to remember the game play has to be sort of fair. it wont be much fun if its insta-crush every time an onos jumps on you.
<img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tiny.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="::onos::" border="0" alt="tiny.gif" />
<img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/asrifle.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="::asrifle::" border="0" alt="asrifle.gif" />
oh yeah and the spiked shoulder pads idea was clearly a joke and not meant to be taken seriously at all, but sure, feel free to ms paint it =)
I like this idea.. hehe.. splat
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What he said <img src="http://img486.imageshack.us/img486/5488/marineig7.gif" border="0" alt="IPB Image" />
Just make sure it 'fits in' and the Onos doesn't get too overpowered, they ARE the highest lifeform though.
<b>Devour 2.0</b>
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ikyvQs-VJ-Q" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ikyvQs-VJ-Q</a>
If an onos manages to get on top of a rines head.......game over, rine dies, THE END. Do you know how many times i've landed on a rines head in NS? like..three times..total..ever. ?? seriously wow lol. It won't happen that often, and if an onos does manage it, he should be rewarded 110% w/ a server wide "humiliation kill", lol.
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<!--quoteo(post=1626096:date=May 10 2007, 06:53 PM:name=scaryface)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(scaryface @ May 10 2007, 06:53 PM) [snapback]1626096[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->
i don't understand where all the controversy is coming from. It's not like the situation even comes up often. How many chances does an onos have to fall on marines? Maybe as a joke skulks could boost an onos onto a high ceiling, but other than that there's very few uses. It's not like the onos doesn't already have a one-hit-kill weapon that's even more practical than this.
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<!--quoteo(post=1626619:date=May 14 2007, 03:04 AM:name=Zaggy)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Zaggy @ May 14 2007, 03:04 AM) [snapback]1626619[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->
What he said
Just make sure it 'fits in' and the Onos doesn't get too overpowered, they ARE the highest lifeform though.
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QFT, all of the above! <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile-fix.gif" />
And as far as skulks boosting and onos up, Scaryface, they shouldn't be able to do that to begin with! Their claws should have a certain limit to the static coefficient of friction. If the force applied by the mass of an onos was on a skulk and the onos tried to stand on the skulk as it was attached to the wall the skulk would be pushed down. (possibly gouging claw marks into the wall with accompanying sparks)
<!--quoteo(post=1622003:date=Apr 19 2007, 05:07 PM:name=Bigbio2002)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Bigbio2002 @ Apr 19 2007, 05:07 PM) [snapback]1622003[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Quick idea to counter a jumping Onos: spike pits.
Let the Marines set up small patches of long, narrow spikes (lets say a 10 foot square with spikes 8 feet tall and 3 feet apart) to impale an onos that unwittingly jumps on any marines that might be standing within the spike field. The spikes must be tall and narrow so Marines and lower lifeforms can maneuver within the field and fall down between the spikes without being injured themselves.
It would be somewhat analogous to webs, except it would be fatal for Onoses; other lifeforms would be unaffected. Perhaps they could even run through the base of the spikes to destroy them, allowing for safe passage of an Onos.
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Oh hell no! You kind of deserved the stupid suggestion MSPaint on that one you know. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tounge.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tounge.gif" />
<img src="http://img180.imageshack.us/img180/2864/spikepit2fn8.gif" border="0" alt="IPB Image" />
vote <b><!--coloro:#CC0000--><span style="color:#CC0000"><!--/coloro-->no<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc--></b> to the above.
(PS: the onos should have it's legs broken after a fall like that anyways)
good point, but people do get trampled by elephants and even rhino's and walk away with only a few broken bones, or even just bruises and shattered ego's. sure it would be a small percentage of these animal attacks, but people do survive it. and they are dumb tourists, not battle-hardened TSA marines.
also you need to remember the game play has to be sort of fair. it wont be much fun if its insta-crush every time an onos jumps on you.
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Yes, people do get away with broken bones and things of that sort, but those elephants and rhinos are really trying to kill you, now are they? The Onos on the other hand is a killing machine bent on molesting the marines...
I think that the idea of an onos crushing a marine is good, but it has a height limit. If the onos is right above, then the marine should obtain some damage but is knocked down. On the other hand, if the onos jumped for a different level and managed to land on a marine, then hey, its the stupid marines fault. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tounge.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tounge.gif" />
lol
Onos jump on head reward:
Now = Zero, before it was even a disadvantage, thus less trying.
After implent = Free instant killing from hive 1 bonus, marine dies, you suffer minimal damage, even if miss you can just take him down the normal way. If done perfectly you get 3 easy kills, 1 crushed, 1 Devoured 1 Killed. The first two are out of combat in a few seconds and the third cannot do much alone, further adv if stomp is active.
Stomp goes as any weapon, after the hitbox. If one get struck in the chest they still get stunned and have minimal time to run away from a onos jumping on them. Also consider the Onos can do crouch jump, gaining the height needed even when just a slight bit over the marine.
Im pretty sure your all ###### at me for working against this idea but hell, it's a public forum.
At this point, it splits.
Situation A:
Onos loses his nerve due to low HP and starts to back off. JP notices this, flies around the corner, and guns him down.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
That almost never happens.
<!--quoteo(post=1620949:date=Apr 14 2007, 10:29 AM:name=Moving_Target0)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Moving_Target0 @ Apr 14 2007, 10:29 AM) [snapback]1620949[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->
Situation B:
Onos stays put. JP barely goes around the corner to lure him out (on the farthest away side), flies backwards to avoid being eaten/gored, and guns the now exposed onos down.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Due to latency, slow acceleration of jet packs relative to onos and possibly a strafe jump from the onos, 9 times out of 10 the JP is devoured unless the corridor is really wide or the onos really sucky.
If you're a little more competent as a jp you might do a strafe turn to keep some speed. That sometimes works, but doesn't always lure the onos and there's no time to shoot it until it follows.
Situation C: JP knows the onos is at least somewhat competent and breaks of persuit instead of getting devoured.
Why do you almost never land on marines? Because you dont try, why should you? It dosnt ATM give you any advantage at being ontop of a marine and especially it dosnt damage him, only you from the fall. If you got hell bent on landing or tricking marines under you it would occur alot more often, especially when on ladders.
Onos jump on head reward:
Now = Zero, before it was even a disadvantage, thus less trying.
After implent = Free instant killing from hive 1 bonus, marine dies, you suffer minimal damage, even if miss you can just take him down the normal way. If done perfectly you get 3 easy kills, 1 crushed, 1 Devoured 1 Killed. The first two are out of combat in a few seconds and the third cannot do much alone, further adv if stomp is active.
Stomp goes as any weapon, after the hitbox. If one get struck in the chest they still get stunned and have minimal time to run away from a onos jumping on them. Also consider the Onos can do crouch jump, gaining the height needed even when just a slight bit over the marine.
Im pretty sure your all ###### at me for working against this idea but hell, it's a public forum.
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Thats why you should vote for my idea of dealing 4x your own fall damage, rather than instant killing. Much less potential for abuse, since you can't fall-kill people just by crouch jumping off a railing or anything, you actually need a good height to jump off of. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tounge.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tounge.gif" />
Thats why you should vote for my idea of dealing 4x your own fall damage, rather than instant killing. Much less potential for abuse, since you can't fall-kill people just by crouch jumping off a railing or anything, you actually need a good height to jump off of. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tounge.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tounge.gif" />
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Yeah. That, and svenpa might actually realize that we're not saying a fall on a ladder can kill everything.
In response to soylent:
I was just making a point, I wasn't going for exact situations that happen most of the time. I was talking based upon personal experience when fighting onoses, or being the onos. Generally, situation A at that point occurs from a JP / HMG.
Situation B: You don't always even have to go around the corner. Grenades work well, as does shooting the onos if you can see a tiny part of him due to his obesity.