To Flay: Skulk Bite Removal And How To Stop It

Minstrel_Knight · November 2002

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> ([watch.me.die] @ Nov 25 2002, 04:18 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>exactly ... when people begin to use it in this way is when it becomes a "true" exploit, it isn't being removed to increase FPS or anything like that, it is being removed purely to make it easier to bite people</td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'>
Using the mouse instead of keyboard is purely for being able to aim better.

Acrobad · November 2002

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Minstrel Knight @ Nov 25 2002, 04:55 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> ([watch.me.die] @ Nov 25 2002, 04:18 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>exactly ... when people begin to use it in this way is when it becomes a "true" exploit, it isn't being removed to increase FPS or anything like that, it is being removed purely to make it easier to bite people</td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'>
Using the mouse instead of keyboard is purely for being able to aim better.</td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'>
What does <i>that</i> have to do with ANYTHING?

The team coded so you use mouse to aim.

but they didn't code it in such a way that you don't see bite animations!

<img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/mad.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='mad.gif'> <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/mad.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='mad.gif'> pee off!!

Minstrel_Knight · November 2002

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Acrobad @ Nov 25 2002, 05:03 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>r
but they didn't code it in such a way that you don't see bite animations!

<img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/mad.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='mad.gif'> <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/mad.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='mad.gif'> pee off!!</td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'>
r_drawviewmodel was not disabled
yet anti script code was put in
so the team concsiously chose to give people the option of turning it off

Hammer · November 2002

I think some of you people have way too much time on your hands, sitting around and debating if a certain model is a cheat, or a certain script is a cheat is just plain stupid. Second, if this message was to Flayra why did you not just PM him, hmm? We have this big friggin' disscusion in the models forum, must you bring it here Necro? Wah wah somebody turned off view models, wah wah somebody changed the muzzle flash, wah wah somebody has a better cross-hair. (Hey, all these topics have been bitched about by the same person, Necro!)

Ya know what I say? Two tears in a bucket, **obscenity** it.

Minstrel_Knight · November 2002

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Hammer @ Nov 25 2002, 05:12 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>I think some of you people have way too much time on your hands, sitting around and debating if a certain model is a cheat, or a certain script is a cheat is just plain stupid. Second, if this message was to Flayra why did you not just PM him, hmm? We have this big friggin' disscusion in the models forum, must you bring it here Necro? Wah wah somebody turned off view models, wah wah somebody changed the muzzle flash, wah wah somebody has a better cross-hair. (Hey, all these topics have been bitched about by the same person, Necro!)

Ya know what I say? Two tears in a bucket, **obscenity** it.</td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'>
Must agree totally here. The NS community seems rather insanely overzealous about scripts and r_drawviewmodel and hud_fastswitch. These things give marginal advantages at best and hardly turn NSPlayer into FPS god overnight.

Flare · November 2002

r_drawviewmodel is not an exploit nor a cheat, its called a <b>tweak</b>, nothing more, nothing less, simple as that. its been around it all games for quite some time and is quite popular for competitive gaming especially in ladder matches. i can hardly see it being banned.

Acrobad · November 2002

The key point here is to play "fairly" so noone has certain advantage against another.

And the fact that this c-var was allowed because it was missed as a consideration. This is what called an "exploit". Maybe not so much of a "cheat", but certainly an "exploit".

Minstrel_Knight · November 2002

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Acrobad @ Nov 25 2002, 05:21 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>The key point here is to play "fairly" so noone has certain advantage against another.
</td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'>
A faster video card gives you an advantage. A better key configuration gives you an advantage. A better mouse gives you an advantage. A better mousepad gives you an advantage. A better soundcard gives you an advantage. Better headphones give you an advantage. Having your volume higher gives you an advantage. An even playing field is not possible.

domesticxdispute · November 2002

I wanted to test out what the big deal was using r_drawviewmodel 0 as marines, and let me tell you, there is a HUGE difference. It is 10x easier to kill skulks without that muzzleflash. I had some people run up to me and try to bite me, but I got them every time. I really think this command should be locked, it makes marines TONS better.

Acrobad · November 2002

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Minstrel Knight @ Nov 25 2002, 05:29 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Acrobad @ Nov 25 2002, 05:21 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>The key point here is to play "fairly" so noone has certain advantage against another.
</td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'>
A faster video card gives you an advantage. A better key configuration gives you an advantage. A better mouse gives you an advantage. A better mousepad gives you an advantage. A better soundcard gives you an advantage. Better headphones give you an advantage. Having your volume higher gives you an advantage. An even playing field is not possible.</td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'>
And you're supposed to make it worse by using exploits or cheats?

How ideal and brilliant.

Minstrel_Knight · November 2002

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Acrobad @ Nov 25 2002, 05:48 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>And you're supposed to make it worse by using exploits or cheats?

How ideal and brilliant.</td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'>
The only exploit I use is hud_fastswitch. I could use r_drawviewmodel 0 but it makes so little difference I don't even bother. The point is r_drawviewmodel isn't going to make someone who could never kill you before start dominating you. If someone has skill to begin with this will make a barely noticeable difference. If they suck to begin with they will still suck.

Necro · November 2002

i'm pretty sure i remember flay considering this a cheat/exploit, and if i can do 25/5 with the bite think how much easier it would be without it.

Minstrel_Knight · November 2002

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Necro- @ Nov 25 2002, 05:57 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>i'm pretty sure i remember flay considering this a cheat/exploit, and if i can do 25/5 with the bite think how much easier it would be without it.</td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'>
We might as well just lock all models sounds gamma brightness and mouse sensitivity then since they all give you an advantage over other players.

Daphisto · November 2002

Having the mouth/teeth in the heads-up-display is stupid and unrealistic. Unless, of course, the skulk's eyes are in it's mouth, which they are clearly not.

It's not like the Skulk would actually be having trouble seeing it's attacker because it's "teeth get in the way."

Just seems kind of illogical to have placed the teeth in the viewpoint.

TheEnigma · November 2002

Note: With the friggen' <b>huge</b> muzzle flash that the LMG has, disabling the model + whatnot on the marine side allows you too actually see what you're shooting at. As with the skulk, any amount of time that you can't see out of the mouth is a disadvantage to keeping track of exactly where you're biting. If that's not an advantage, I dont know what is.

CEldin · November 2002

whoever is using those cheats is a sick person. I might also note that cheats are always just temporary, as they are always eventually fixed and your hax are useless and you must play the real way, the way that everyone else will be able to kick your posterior in. too bad for you

Minstrel_Knight · November 2002

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Stung256 @ Nov 25 2002, 06:15 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>whoever is using those cheats is a sick person. I might also note that cheats are always just temporary, as they are always eventually fixed and your hax are useless and you must play the real way, the way that everyone else will be able to kick your posterior in. too bad for you</td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'>
Compared to other mods NS has a relatively small number of cheaters thankfully. Due to the fact that the advantages of wall hacks are lessened to a degree and no head hitboxes weakens the usefulness of aimbots most cheaters would prefer to play a mod which gives them a greater boost to their ego.

padijun · November 2002

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Hammer @ Nov 25 2002, 01:12 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>I think some of you people have way too much time on your hands, sitting around and debating if a certain model is a cheat, or a certain script is a cheat is just plain stupid. Second, if this message was to Flayra why did you not just PM him, hmm? We have this big friggin' disscusion in the models forum, must you bring it here Necro? Wah wah somebody turned off view models, wah wah somebody changed the muzzle flash, wah wah somebody has a better cross-hair. (Hey, all these topics have been bitched about by the same person, Necro!)

Ya know what I say? Two tears in a bucket, **obscenity** it.</td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'>
Every time I see you, you're shooting off your mouth and posturing like some kind of insecure ninny. I feel inclined to point out that this is "the internet", not "the playground". Next time if you have something constructive or intelligent to add (not likely it seems), do it. If not, please avoid buttons marked "add reply".

Black_Wolf · November 2002

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>The only exploit I use is hud_fastswitch. I could use r_drawviewmodel 0 but it makes so little difference I don't even bother. The point is r_drawviewmodel isn't going to make someone who could never kill you before start dominating you. If someone has skill to begin with this will make a barely noticeable difference. If they suck to begin with they will still suck. </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'>

this isnt true, it makes it so much easier for someone to kill marines with a skulk if they have no bite animation, its as simple as that. Hell, it apparently even makes it easier to play as marines. So its an exploit, and regardless of what you say it does make a large difference in the balance of the game. As you say, it may not make a player who sucks to begin with start dominating, but it will make a good player great.

Maus · November 2002

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> ([watch.me.die] @ Nov 25 2002, 09:18 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (absent @ Nov 25 2002, 03:58 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>alias +m "r_drawviewmodel 0; +attack"
alias -m "-attack; r_drawviewmodel 1"</td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'>
exactly ... when people begin to use it in this way is when it becomes a "true" exploit, it isn't being removed to increase FPS or anything like that, it is being removed purely to make it easier to bite people</td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'>
Personally I use it so I can see the corridor I'm covering past the big flashy blue waypoint the commander was kind enough to put in front of me.

Destiny · November 2002

this is so easy... you could make it slightly more TRANSPARENT... n u get to see teeth n still see sumthing moving in ur 'blind' spots

(toking bout v1.03) hopefully =]

Poor_Yurik · November 2002

Transparent teeth. Now there's something...

It gives an unfair advantage. Nuff said.

Harry_S_Truman · November 2002

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Acrobad @ Nov 25 2002, 05:21 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>The key point here is to play "fairly" so noone has certain advantage against another.

And the fact that this c-var was allowed because it was missed as a consideration. This is what called an "exploit". Maybe not so much of a "cheat", but certainly an "exploit".</td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'>
Does this mean that if I'm top scorer and I'm beating the crap out of the other team, I'm supposed to break the fingers on my mouse hand so they can catch up?

You people seem to miss the point that these are available to eveyone. If you choose to use it or not use it is up to you. Personally, I love scripting. That way I can change the way my hand uses the keyboard. I might not like the way the keyboard is set up, it may hurt my wrist in certain positions.

For example....I spend more time ducking than jumping, so my duck key is the spacebar, since my thumb is much stronger than my pinky was trying to hold down the ctrl key.

So you are saying, since I found a way to do this...it isn't fair?

Look people, its all in the way you interface with the game. Next you'll be saying farsighted people can't wear their glasses when they play or that people that spent $200 on that "uber-controller" can't use it cause you can program too many of the buttons. Gimme a break. As long as you don't change HOW the game operates, you aren't cheating.

triskadeka · November 2002

I agree witht the above poster. It is available to everyone.

A few minutes ago I had no previous knowledge/experience with scripting and binding keys. I just went on to a lan game and used what someone had posted, messed around with it for like 5 minutes, now I have a sweet little setup to turn the models on/off right on my mouse. Yay.

The point is that these are not exploits, but helpful tweaks which are available to everyone. Like the above poster stated you're not changing how the game operates, you are changing how you operate with the game.

Katsuro · November 2002

Why the **obscenity** would they lock all the models though? Only the skulk bite is used for cheating. Just lock the skulk, like they do with the HWguy and Scout in TFC. YOu can use custom for any model but those and sentry guns i think.

I hope this mod doesnt die a quick death over this.

triskadeka · November 2002

Also, seeing as I am running NS on a 450 mhz machine with a crappy Geforce 2 MX card it helps my FPS a fair amount. I really hope they don't hard code this into the next patch. It seems dumb to do that. If you want to use it - use it. But if you don't - don't. It's that simple.

FatKao · November 2002

<a href='http://web.njit.edu/~jtm4/omgbitehack.avi' target='_blank'>http://web.njit.edu/~jtm4/omgbitehack.avi</a>

movement to target > actual fight...nuff said.

Necro · November 2002

an option would be to have it so if ur fps is below a certain point (30 or so) you can turn it off.

absent · November 2002

alias +m "fps_max 30; r_drawviewmodel 0; +attack"
alias -m "-attack; r_drawviewmodel 1; fps_max 100"

padijun · November 2002

You could just lock your FPS at 30. Not as nice as 60+, but just as playable.

To Flay: Skulk Bite Removal And How To Stop It

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