<!--QuoteBegin--Harry S. Truman+Nov 25 2002, 07:17 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Harry S. Truman @ Nov 25 2002, 07:17 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Does this mean ... As long as you don't change HOW the game operates, you aren't cheating.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> And why would you think Flayra did some anti-scripting with the Leap + Bite thing?
<b>obviously</b> to discourage the use of scripts!
The one thing that people seem to be forgetting is that most of the people that will be troubled by locking models are not cheaters, but normal players who like to use, make, and exchange custom models. Converting pulse rifles, making a new grenate launcher or different structures, etc. All of these good things will go away just to temporarily remove some cheaters, who will just go to using OGC or XYZ or whatever other cheats are out there.
Suggestions to stop cheating, while not messing up modelling community.
1. Only lock the one model people are cheating with (skulk view model). People are only cheating with one model, so fix that one and leave the rest alone.
2. Better yet, i saw someone suggest that you make the screen go black for an instant when you bite. This is an EXCELLENT idea. It ignores models altogether, and fixes the problem at hand.
Please consider these, instead of destroying a budding modelling community.
<!--QuoteBegin--{US-DF}Rico+Nov 25 2002, 04:50 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> ({US-DF}Rico @ Nov 25 2002, 04:50 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Hmm yes, as much as i agree with removing teeth being a cheat, Twex does have a point. There are many people trying to mess up the way the mod is intended to be played with scripts, models and sprites. My only relief is that if you use any of these and r_drawviewmodel 0 in a CAL match or clan match will get you disqualified.
Im sure flayra can think of something if he deems this is worth the effort.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Far as i rememebr, from a editoral a while back, CAL lets you use cheats. Somthing about server issues and the like, like if its installed on the server usable by both teams, helps fps, some junk like that.
Anyways, someteam caught another team cheating, brought to a admin, and they were like so?
<!--QuoteBegin--Katsuro+Nov 25 2002, 10:41 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Katsuro @ Nov 25 2002, 10:41 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Suggestions to stop cheating, while not messing up modelling community.
1. Only lock the one model people are cheating with (skulk view model). People are only cheating with one model, so fix that one and leave the rest alone.
2. Better yet, i saw someone suggest that you make the screen go black for an instant when you bite. This is an EXCELLENT idea. It ignores models altogether, and fixes the problem at hand.
Please consider these, instead of destroying a budding modelling community.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> 1.) When you lock that one, people make another one that's different but still is a cheating model. and when you lock thenext one, they make another. There's only one Flayra and oh-so-many hackers out there... it's not goign to be possible.
2.) And how exactly for Flayra to do this? To detect the model and kill the person? But again, the models will most likely change again and again, it's not going to be possible to catch up.
so only one idea remains... Lock everything but the default models. <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='confused.gif'><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Every time I see you, you're shooting off your mouth and posturing like some kind of insecure ninny. I feel inclined to point out that this is "the internet", not "the playground". Next time if you have something constructive or intelligent to add (not likely it seems), do it. If not, please avoid buttons marked "add reply". <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I feel inclined to say "Cry me a river"
If my posts bother you that much you can simply choose to ignore me, if you don't do that than their is not a damn thing I can or will do about it. Sorry, maybe I should make endless "I LOVE THE NS DEV TEAM SO MUCH!!!" threads to gain the appease of other forum goers... Nah, I think I'll speak my mind in any way I see fit without breaking the rules of this forum.
Funny thing is you're lecturing about me making "smart" posts, yet your reply to mine does not contain one iota of intelligence, attempting to insult me will get you no where, I posted what I had to say and I meant it. Also take note that I did not ATTACK anybody, I did not say "NECRO YOU ARE A STUPID WEINER" or anything of the nature, it's just that we had this huge conversation in the models forum and it got us no where so he has decided to bring it here. Guess what, it's not going to get us anywhere! This whole little tid-bit of accusations and counter accusations could have been avoided if Necro would have simply made this question to Flayra and Flayra only, not posting it in the forums disguised as a "concerned and caring" message to Flayra.
As for the model consistency, it has been pointed out that it will be a server side OPTION!!!!!! This conversation no longer really needs to go on, the problem is solved and we may all rejoice.
<!--QuoteBegin--Acrobad+Nov 26 2002, 04:34 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Acrobad @ Nov 26 2002, 04:34 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--><!--QuoteBegin--Katsuro+Nov 25 2002, 10:41 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Katsuro @ Nov 25 2002, 10:41 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Suggestions to stop cheating, while not messing up modelling community.
1. Only lock the one model people are cheating with (skulk view model). People are only cheating with one model, so fix that one and leave the rest alone.
2. Better yet, i saw someone suggest that you make the screen go black for an instant when you bite. This is an EXCELLENT idea. It ignores models altogether, and fixes the problem at hand.
Please consider these, instead of destroying a budding modelling community.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> 1.) When you lock that one, people make another one that's different but still is a cheating model. and when you lock thenext one, they make another. There's only one Flayra and oh-so-many hackers out there... it's not goign to be possible.
2.) And how exactly for Flayra to do this? To detect the model and kill the person? But again, the models will most likely change again and again, it's not going to be possible to catch up.
so only one idea remains... Lock everything but the default models. <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='confused.gif'><!--endemo--><!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> I think that you missed my point both times.
1. Only enforce file consistency checks on the models that would be replaced with cheating models (v_lvl1 aka the skulk v_model). No one is making cheat models for the v_shotgun or V_welder models, because theres not really any way you could make one. Changing the model wouldnt make your view any better (or at least not enough to matter). So those models dont need consistancy checks. Get the idea?
2. Someone pointed out that in DoD the screen goes solid black for just a half second or so when you switch to your scope. And they suggested that something similar happen when the skulk actually makes its bite. For .25 second or something, the screen goes black so you cant see. THerefore altered model or not, you cant see at the moment you bite down, as the creator intended.
Either of these ideas would be less harmful to the modelling community than simply locking everything. And they would accomplish the same feat (to disable the skulk bite changing exploit thingy)
Although I play all kinds of games, I've allways seen myself as a "quaker" and as a quaker I feel like you should be able to tweak the game as long as it's not in conflict with the game's concept. I don't agree with the fact that aliens are supposed to get disoriented whilst biting, but that's just my opinion. The game is designed so that an animation covers your screen for some milliseconds and that's not a cosmetic thing, it's a feature. Features shouldn't be able to be turned off by clients.
An example of other features (in other games): view bobbing in Counter-Strike when shooting and after falling, screen black-out in Day of Defeat when bringing up the scope, ringing sound and white-out from flashbangs in America's Army: Operations.
In all first-person games where possible, I allways turn the weapon models off. Just a preference. I don't see this as a cheat in NS, except for the skulk but let's face it, as long as you don't have a black-out when biting I will continue to "exploit" the half-life engine (or whatever you see it as).
Uhm, my point is that you should make a black-out when biting and nothing else. Forcing a value for r_drawviewmodel will make lots of people like me annoyed and forcing consistency for models is just plain stupid.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->1. Only enforce file consistency checks on the models that would be replaced with cheating models (v_lvl1 aka the skulk v_model). No one is making cheat models for the v_shotgun or V_welder models, because theres not really any way you could make one. Changing the model wouldnt make your view any better (or at least not enough to matter). So those models dont need consistancy checks. Get the idea?<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The Skulk is not the only model that blocks your view in annoying ways.
Skulk, Lerk, Onos, LMG, HMG, and yes, even Shotgun, give you a disadvantage when you leave them turned on. Many people will happily replace them with tiny/invisible models if you let them, in order to get an unobstructed view.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->2. Someone pointed out that in DoD the screen goes solid black for just a half second or so when you switch to your scope. And they suggested that something similar happen when the skulk actually makes its bite. For .25 second or something, the screen goes black so you cant see. THerefore altered model or not, you cant see at the moment you bite down, as the creator intended.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The thought alone is giving me headaches. Who enjoys staring at flickering screens?
yeh i took me models off TFC but in NS i get like 5 fps so dont realy matter to me any way <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/sad.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='sad.gif'><!--endemo-->
I rebinded my keys to give myself a distinct advantage! I can switch to any of my weapons within the time the bite covers my screen!!!!
FFS! Get over it, I use the arrow keys, and have my kp_ins kp_end enter and kp_del keys all binded to give me quick access to all my weapons, Does this give me a advantage? Yes, because Ill umbra followed by spikes faster then you can start shooting me, does this make me a cheater? well to this stupid whitch hunting thread, yes, because I will kill alot more then if I had everything default controlls. I have been playing NS since the release, this also gives me and advantage, I have been following the mod a year and been an active member about that long, does this give me an advantage? YES!!
Stop crying because you arn't the best, go out there and learn how to play instead of weeping over 1-2 ratios.
This is the same crap in TFC I heards n00bs whine about all day, and its starting to get annoying.
So what if hes using a script that turns off his r_drawviewmodel when he bites, getting to the marine is where all the skill is taking place. If your at point blank with a marine they should be dead, it doesnt take hax to accomplish this.
I see all the whiners as one of the following,
A marine who gets flanked and dies
A marine who cant aim
A alien that gets 1-2 ratios consistently
A very jeleous person
Somone going along with the flow <- 90% of the people posting in here
Lets go to the logic behind everyones whinning, they think that somone who is bettering them is cheating, and that by getting rid of r_drawviewmodels and inforcing consistency will make them do better in some way, or make there compitition do worst. Welcome to human logic on the internet, if there doing better then you, there cheating.
And I would'nt count on necro- for any accurate information, in patch .01 he said defensive chambers didnt stack.
Ontop of all this I have seen blissfull ignorence from just about every other post here, oh joy incorrect facts.
And you know what, Im going to use a r_drawviewmodel script for the next 2 days just to see if it boosts my averge 3-1 ratio to a higher degree. Dont like it? oh well.
/me waits for mindless flames and incorrect assignments of cheating
(P.S. moleculer was actually the first person to do this, and soon after release I tried it and released a script for it, shortly after changing it back to default config with no viewmodel script, didnt help me much there, dont see how much it will help me now.)
Cheers and lets see how much this really helps <!--emo&::skulk::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/skulk.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='skulk.gif'><!--endemo-->
I tried it myself and i would tell you the viewmodel thing helped alot as in aiming and killing.
However I'm not going to use it because it ruins the fun of the game.
That way, you're just into it because of the killing and the wins...
to me, NS isn't just about those. It's about teamwork and teamwork and teamwork...
While it is so much easier to aim, it ruins the fun that I actually belong to this game because I dont see any weapons at all.
If you think it's alright to use the c_var, go ahead, do so. I'll just look at you as someone who can't play the normal way because they had to take a certain advantage.
so if you think this c_var doesn't change anything, then why not go to the way of wallhacking as well? Hey what did I do wrong now? I'm just changing the wall models! so they're transparent and doesn't block my view and most importantly it helps FPS! Yeah! You can't call me cheating or hacking or being cheap, because I'm just doing what everyone else is doing for the winning! Yippie! [/blah]
I can't help to change anyone's mind, but I can tell you I stand strong on my belief.
erm actually changing the walls to transparent takes more out of your FPS, and it isnt just a variable, a client alterating -outside- program is needed, its pure idiocy to say that scripts are the same thing as cheating.
I've experimented with drawviewmodel too. The biggest advantage is actually for the marines, because you need to keep the gun on the target for some time to kill (short time, but still not instantaneous). Not having the huge muzzle flame is a big advantage. For skulks it doesn't matter so much, because you generally only bite when you're already on target, and a light marine is dead in two bites anyway. By the time you lose sight of them they're probably dead. I do wonder where they got the silly idea for putting the eyes in the mouth. Aliens vs. Predator did the same thing, but that can't be the reason as the devs claim they don't want to copy AvP, right?
I'd put in an autobite option. Skulks are supposed to act on instinct, so I'd say that if a skulk gets in the right position for a bite, let it bite automatically. I mean, would a real skulk have to press '3', then jump at the marine, press '1', attack, press... No! This sort of behaviour is completely ridiculous for a hunting animal. I'd still let the player decide the direction for a leap and the decision if he should leap, but attack should be a reflex when juicy bits are near. Leave a manual bite option for structures, as the skulk doesn't have the stamina to destroy then completely by biting continuously.
On a related note, perhaps it wouldn't be a bad idea to let the commander research rifles that automatically lock onto a motion tracking target (with marines given the option to turn it off if they want to shoot a different target). But perhaps that's too AvP-ish?
Oh, please note that I don't want autoaim cheats in the game, I'd like it to be an official part of the mod available for anyone. Hell, semi-wallhack already is part of it, why not this?
Features which have a great impact on playability should be enforced consistently. For example, it would be totally stupid if you could switch off the flashbang blindness effect, or turn transparent walls on and off as a "feature". I personally would rather tweak my Alpha for good-looking graphics rather than making everything washed-out and ugly so that enemies are instantly visible. If I die a few times from not seeing a skulk hiding in a corner, fine with me... In my opinion, gameplay is more important than winning; of course, not everyone shares this view.
However, I personally think the skulk bite animation is <b>stupid</b>. The devs won't give us view rotation for wallclimbing because they don't want to rip off of AvP and they don't want to disorient people, but the skulk bitemodel is much more disorienting for me, and it is an equally blatant AvP ripoff. However, as long as it is there, I will play with it on, because its lame to give yourself a big advantage over everyone else by tweaking your game settings. (One of the advantages of Xbox Live over PC online gaming is that everyone has the same Xbox with the same settings, so there's nothing to tweak that would give you a big advantage, and no one is at a disadvantage due to inferior hardware)
Autoaim and autobite are just plain idiotic ideas. This isn't Starcraft - FPS skill is important too, and the basis of fps skill is good aim. Removing the skill factor of aiming with autoaim/autobite is just stupid.
<!--QuoteBegin--Bob the Alien+Nov 26 2002, 08:21 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Bob the Alien @ Nov 26 2002, 08:21 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Skulk bite model actually gives me a huge headache after hours of watching it...<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Yeah...I was playing one night biting around, and it was really bad....I got dizzy and motion sick from it. :/ I've never been motion sick.
<!--QuoteBegin--Bob the Alien+Nov 26 2002, 03:21 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Bob the Alien @ Nov 26 2002, 03:21 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Skulk bite model actually gives me a huge headache after hours of watching it...<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> And you're supposed to bypass this by removing the model?
then what's the model doing there at the first place?
I get so tired of doing the same argument over and over... it just never ends!
And the wallhack thing you totally misunderstood my point. The fact that I have not experienced it (thank god) makes me sound like a total idiot, but I do have a point from my post. I'm saying, if you're just going to remove the in-game model for convenience, why not remove the wall or everything then? While surely, you need another program for that, but doesn't it serve the same purpose as to <b>remove in-game features for your own personal benefit?</b>
Oh I think I'll remove the model... and the voice comm... and the sounds... and the textures.... and the hud..... and stuff.... I'll just make it so that NS is a game where i walk through grey walls shotting grey figures with just a crosshair and no guns and blah blah blah..........
[edit] And i want to reinforce that scripting is not cheating, but removing the weapon model is an exploit and should be dealed with. Certain scripts are okay, where as to bind keys, and make new key binds for weapons, command hot keys, stuff... that's fine. However, what's cheap are those attack sequence scripts or any other scripts that try to go around the game rules... If you're so willing to let the computer do all the work for you, and winning is so essential, why not just set up bots and watch them play?
This is disgusting. I can't believe people would choose making the game unfair, even in the slightest degree. Tweak, hack, exploit, cheat.. whatever the hell it is.. Joe Schmoe has it, Bob Jackoff doesn't.. Joe wins. He didn't win fairly. This is like having two football teams, one with regular helmets and the other with helmets that let you see better, or hear better. The difference may be marginal, but it is DIFFERENT!
And cheap.
Up until this week, I didn't know half these exploits/tweaks/whatever existed. Do you think it is fair that the games my teams have lost in the past turned out that way because the other team was cheating? Tweaking? Exploiting? Now every NS player who knows about this crap can more readily question the credibility of another player.. is that what everyone wants? Everyone screaming "hax!" and some being partially right? COME ON.
That .avi file with the bite-hack is sickening. Anyone going to say that they don't have a problem with that? Does anyone want to say "I have a problem with the bite-hack, but not with turning off model-animations." They're related! Even in the smallest way, it's circumventing balance issues.. and in a game like this, balance is more key than in almost ANY other FPS.
And as for buying better computer equipment making the game unfair.. Flayra has no control over that. He DOES have control over the content of his mod. He should work hard to keep it as fair as he possibly can. Take any professional sport (again) for example... player A is stronger than player B. Player A has a better chance at running faster or enduring longer, but the rules they both abide by are the same. The organizations that govern ANY sort of competition set rules.. they usually do not set weight limits, strength limits, eyesight limits. So the "You have higher FPS than me! The playing field will never be even!" is a BS argument.. the devs can't control it, only their mod and its rules! Bleh.
<!--QuoteBegin--Doombringer+Nov 26 2002, 10:11 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Doombringer @ Nov 26 2002, 10:11 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->This is disgusting. I can't believe people would choose making the game unfair, even in the slightest degree. Tweak, hack, exploit, cheat.. whatever the hell it is.. Joe Schmoe has it, Bob Jackoff doesn't.. Joe wins. He didn't win fairly. This is like having two football teams, one with regular helmets and the other with helmets that let you see better, or hear better. The difference may be marginal, but it is DIFFERENT! <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> The thing here is that anyone can turn r_drawviewmodel off if they want. So your point is completely invalid....
<!--QuoteBegin--Snake13+Nov 26 2002, 10:44 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Snake13 @ Nov 26 2002, 10:44 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->bite hack? are you guys serious?
The bite radius of the khara was made a little wider to make it easier to hit strafing marines, this isn't a hack its a damned balancing feature<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Um...balancing feature? Are you serious?
Right now skulks can wreck havoc on marines, and it doesn't take some hack to extend the bite radius more then it is already. I routinely see skulks with scores of around 30 kills, and 5 - 10 deaths. I myself can chomp my way through numerous marines without getting killed when I play smart.
the skulk is a LEVEL 1 alien, the WEAKEST of them all. And you feel that his bite radius needs to be extended to balance him out? WTF?!
What a treat it would be if people left the balance issues up to the people who made the damn game, rather then hack in their own "balancing feature" adjustments.
Bah to all those teeth cheaters, how can you even CLAIM it's not for cheating? Are you that dillusional? Same goes with gun models and whatnot. When you go around your house on lollipop lane with the pink candy cars outside being driven by purple elephants with trombones, do you ever consider it MAY BE CHEATING? Sjeesh what is with these people anyways, they prolly didn't put scores in for that exact reason, so nobody on a team is better than someone else... Removing teeth = cheating (because it was made the way it is) Altering models = cheating Play it the way it came when you installed it. If you alter anything drastically (and don't go: "oooh i can set my gamma high too" because you're not that stupid and if you are, you should be doing other things with your time, like play lego). As discussed in another topic, better hardware = better performance ingame. Of course it is, always has been, always will be. But it's NOT the same as giving yourself an advantage over someone who refuses to cheat and yet has the same hardware. Cheating (= sign with a stripe through it) hardware advantage What amazes me most is some of you put so much time into finding clever answers to accusations. If you'd spend as much time chasing tail as you spent finding and using exploits/cheats/whatnot, you wouldnt have time for computer games because your harem wouldnt let you. Bah, enough ranting!
Necro<insert non-birthday-related title here>Join Date: 2002-08-09Member: 1118Members
shootme your wrong, if i replace my crosshair with something i like betetr (eg a green cross instead of a red) does it give me an advantage? no it doesn't or how about i replace my skulk with a runner alien, advantage? nope.
but when i replace my marines with pink figures it DOES give a HUGE advantage and IS cheating, same with bite, if it gives u an advantage (we're not talking about casual sound,model,sprite changes that you use because u perfer them, we're talking about changes that give u an advantage.)
<!--QuoteBegin--GenmaC+Nov 26 2002, 07:30 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (GenmaC @ Nov 26 2002, 07:30 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->The thing here is that anyone can turn r_drawviewmodel off if they want. So your point is completely invalid....<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
My point is completely valid, because the average or casual player does not know all the little tweaks for the Half-Life engine or for this mod. The average player doesn't have much of a reason to go searching for these tweaks - they just play the game, completely unaware.
This is why I stated that I only learned of this stuff just recently, and that is because I frequent these forums. What about the other guy who doesn't?
My point stands, as much as you'd like it not to, I'm sure.
Anyone who doesnt have the exact same binds/keyboard/moniter/hardware and OS are cheating because they might have an advantage over me!
pft, I only die when somone has more FPS and ping witch makes it seem like they have better reactions, damn cheater needs to downgrade his connection speed and harware
and damn that guy who publicly said he rebinded, I mean the game came with default controlls, stupid cheater isnt playing on a level playing feild, and that guy who PTd, hes a big cheater because he got to practice before me
Then that other guy who snuck up behind me, hes an Fn cheater, I wasnt even looking at him! how fair is that!
/me sighs
Oh doombringer, the average player is the average player because hes not good, even if he did know the tweaks he would fall short.
And downgrade your computer! I think your getting 10 more FPS then me.
Comments
movement to target > actual fight...nuff said.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
....... speechless.
And why would you think Flayra did some anti-scripting with the Leap + Bite thing?
<b>obviously</b> to discourage the use of scripts!
All of these good things will go away just to temporarily remove some cheaters, who will just go to using OGC or XYZ or whatever other cheats are out there.
Suggestions to stop cheating, while not messing up modelling community.
1. Only lock the one model people are cheating with (skulk view model). People are only cheating with one model, so fix that one and leave the rest alone.
2. Better yet, i saw someone suggest that you make the screen go black for an instant when you bite. This is an EXCELLENT idea. It ignores models altogether, and fixes the problem at hand.
Please consider these, instead of destroying a budding modelling community.
Im sure flayra can think of something if he deems this is worth the effort.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Far as i rememebr, from a editoral a while back, CAL lets you use cheats. Somthing about server issues and the like, like if its installed on the server usable by both teams, helps fps, some junk like that.
Anyways, someteam caught another team cheating, brought to a admin, and they were like so?
At least, this was like 6 months ago or somthing.
1. Only lock the one model people are cheating with (skulk view model). People are only cheating with one model, so fix that one and leave the rest alone.
2. Better yet, i saw someone suggest that you make the screen go black for an instant when you bite. This is an EXCELLENT idea. It ignores models altogether, and fixes the problem at hand.
Please consider these, instead of destroying a budding modelling community.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
1.) When you lock that one, people make another one that's different but still is a cheating model. and when you lock thenext one, they make another. There's only one Flayra and oh-so-many hackers out there... it's not goign to be possible.
2.) And how exactly for Flayra to do this? To detect the model and kill the person? But again, the models will most likely change again and again, it's not going to be possible to catch up.
so only one idea remains... Lock everything but the default models. <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='confused.gif'><!--endemo-->
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I feel inclined to say "Cry me a river"
If my posts bother you that much you can simply choose to ignore me, if you don't do that than their is not a damn thing I can or will do about it. Sorry, maybe I should make endless "I LOVE THE NS DEV TEAM SO MUCH!!!" threads to gain the appease of other forum goers... Nah, I think I'll speak my mind in any way I see fit without breaking the rules of this forum.
Funny thing is you're lecturing about me making "smart" posts, yet your reply to mine does not contain one iota of intelligence, attempting to insult me will get you no where, I posted what I had to say and I meant it. Also take note that I did not ATTACK anybody, I did not say "NECRO YOU ARE A STUPID WEINER" or anything of the nature, it's just that we had this huge conversation in the models forum and it got us no where so he has decided to bring it here. Guess what, it's not going to get us anywhere! This whole little tid-bit of accusations and counter accusations could have been avoided if Necro would have simply made this question to Flayra and Flayra only, not posting it in the forums disguised as a "concerned and caring" message to Flayra.
As for the model consistency, it has been pointed out that it will be a server side OPTION!!!!!! This conversation no longer really needs to go on, the problem is solved and we may all rejoice.
Yay.
1. Only lock the one model people are cheating with (skulk view model). People are only cheating with one model, so fix that one and leave the rest alone.
2. Better yet, i saw someone suggest that you make the screen go black for an instant when you bite. This is an EXCELLENT idea. It ignores models altogether, and fixes the problem at hand.
Please consider these, instead of destroying a budding modelling community.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
1.) When you lock that one, people make another one that's different but still is a cheating model. and when you lock thenext one, they make another. There's only one Flayra and oh-so-many hackers out there... it's not goign to be possible.
2.) And how exactly for Flayra to do this? To detect the model and kill the person? But again, the models will most likely change again and again, it's not going to be possible to catch up.
so only one idea remains... Lock everything but the default models. <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='confused.gif'><!--endemo--><!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I think that you missed my point both times.
1. Only enforce file consistency checks on the models that would be replaced with cheating models (v_lvl1 aka the skulk v_model). No one is making cheat models for the v_shotgun or V_welder models, because theres not really any way you could make one. Changing the model wouldnt make your view any better (or at least not enough to matter). So those models dont need consistancy checks. Get the idea?
2. Someone pointed out that in DoD the screen goes solid black for just a half second or so when you switch to your scope. And they suggested that something similar happen when the skulk actually makes its bite. For .25 second or something, the screen goes black so you cant see. THerefore altered model or not, you cant see at the moment you bite down, as the creator intended.
Either of these ideas would be less harmful to the modelling community than simply locking everything. And they would accomplish the same feat (to disable the skulk bite changing exploit thingy)
An example of other features (in other games): view bobbing in Counter-Strike when shooting and after falling, screen black-out in Day of Defeat when bringing up the scope, ringing sound and white-out from flashbangs in America's Army: Operations.
In all first-person games where possible, I allways turn the weapon models off. Just a preference. I don't see this as a cheat in NS, except for the skulk but let's face it, as long as you don't have a black-out when biting I will continue to "exploit" the half-life engine (or whatever you see it as).
Uhm, my point is that you should make a black-out when biting and nothing else. Forcing a value for r_drawviewmodel will make lots of people like me annoyed and forcing consistency for models is just plain stupid.
The Skulk is not the only model that blocks your view in annoying ways.
Skulk, Lerk, Onos, LMG, HMG, and yes, even Shotgun, give you a disadvantage when you leave them turned on. Many people will happily replace them with tiny/invisible models if you let them, in order to get an unobstructed view.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->2. Someone pointed out that in DoD the screen goes solid black for just a half second or so when you switch to your scope. And they suggested that something similar happen when the skulk actually makes its bite. For .25 second or something, the screen goes black so you cant see. THerefore altered model or not, you cant see at the moment you bite down, as the creator intended.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The thought alone is giving me headaches. Who enjoys staring at flickering screens?
Heh, just go around the tower, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5.
5 dead marines. <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo--><!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
nice1 <!--emo&:0--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wow.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='wow.gif'><!--endemo-->
yeh i took me models off TFC but in NS i get like 5 fps so dont realy matter to me any way <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/sad.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='sad.gif'><!--endemo-->
btw is it allowed to change my sprits?
I rebinded my keys to give myself a distinct advantage! I can switch to any of my weapons within the time the bite covers my screen!!!!
FFS! Get over it, I use the arrow keys, and have my kp_ins kp_end enter and kp_del keys all binded to give me quick access to all my weapons, Does this give me a advantage? Yes, because Ill umbra followed by spikes faster then you can start shooting me, does this make me a cheater? well to this stupid whitch hunting thread, yes, because I will kill alot more then if I had everything default controlls. I have been playing NS since the release, this also gives me and advantage, I have been following the mod a year and been an active member about that long, does this give me an advantage? YES!!
Stop crying because you arn't the best, go out there and learn how to play instead of weeping over 1-2 ratios.
This is the same crap in TFC I heards n00bs whine about all day, and its starting to get annoying.
So what if hes using a script that turns off his r_drawviewmodel when he bites, getting to the marine is where all the skill is taking place. If your at point blank with a marine they should be dead, it doesnt take hax to accomplish this.
I see all the whiners as one of the following,
A marine who gets flanked and dies
A marine who cant aim
A alien that gets 1-2 ratios consistently
A very jeleous person
Somone going along with the flow <- 90% of the people posting in here
Lets go to the logic behind everyones whinning, they think that somone who is bettering them is cheating, and that by getting rid of r_drawviewmodels and inforcing consistency will make them do better in some way, or make there compitition do worst. Welcome to human logic on the internet, if there doing better then you, there cheating.
And I would'nt count on necro- for any accurate information, in patch .01 he said defensive chambers didnt stack.
Ontop of all this I have seen blissfull ignorence from just about every other post here, oh joy incorrect facts.
And you know what, Im going to use a r_drawviewmodel script for the next 2 days just to see if it boosts my averge 3-1 ratio to a higher degree. Dont like it? oh well.
/me waits for mindless flames and incorrect assignments of cheating
(P.S. moleculer was actually the first person to do this, and soon after release I tried it and released a script for it, shortly after changing it back to default config with no viewmodel script, didnt help me much there, dont see how much it will help me now.)
Cheers and lets see how much this really helps <!--emo&::skulk::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/skulk.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='skulk.gif'><!--endemo-->
However I'm not going to use it because it ruins the fun of the game.
That way, you're just into it because of the killing and the wins...
to me, NS isn't just about those. It's about teamwork and teamwork and teamwork...
While it is so much easier to aim, it ruins the fun that I actually belong to this game because I dont see any weapons at all.
If you think it's alright to use the c_var, go ahead, do so. I'll just look at you as someone who can't play the normal way because they had to take a certain advantage.
so if you think this c_var doesn't change anything, then why not go to the way of wallhacking as well? Hey what did I do wrong now? I'm just changing the wall models! so they're transparent and doesn't block my view and most importantly it helps FPS! Yeah! You can't call me cheating or hacking or being cheap, because I'm just doing what everyone else is doing for the winning! Yippie! [/blah]
I can't help to change anyone's mind, but I can tell you I stand strong on my belief.
I do wonder where they got the silly idea for putting the eyes in the mouth. Aliens vs. Predator did the same thing, but that can't be the reason as the devs claim they don't want to copy AvP, right?
I'd put in an autobite option. Skulks are supposed to act on instinct, so I'd say that if a skulk gets in the right position for a bite, let it bite automatically. I mean, would a real skulk have to press '3', then jump at the marine, press '1', attack, press...
No! This sort of behaviour is completely ridiculous for a hunting animal. I'd still let the player decide the direction for a leap and the decision if he should leap, but attack should be a reflex when juicy bits are near. Leave a manual bite option for structures, as the skulk doesn't have the stamina to destroy then completely by biting continuously.
On a related note, perhaps it wouldn't be a bad idea to let the commander research rifles that automatically lock onto a motion tracking target (with marines given the option to turn it off if they want to shoot a different target). But perhaps that's too AvP-ish?
Oh, please note that I don't want autoaim cheats in the game, I'd like it to be an official part of the mod available for anyone. Hell, semi-wallhack already is part of it, why not this?
However, I personally think the skulk bite animation is <b>stupid</b>. The devs won't give us view rotation for wallclimbing because they don't want to rip off of AvP and they don't want to disorient people, but the skulk bitemodel is much more disorienting for me, and it is an equally blatant AvP ripoff. However, as long as it is there, I will play with it on, because its lame to give yourself a big advantage over everyone else by tweaking your game settings. (One of the advantages of Xbox Live over PC online gaming is that everyone has the same Xbox with the same settings, so there's nothing to tweak that would give you a big advantage, and no one is at a disadvantage due to inferior hardware)
Autoaim and autobite are just plain idiotic ideas. This isn't Starcraft - FPS skill is important too, and the basis of fps skill is good aim. Removing the skill factor of aiming with autoaim/autobite is just stupid.
Yeah...I was playing one night biting around, and it was really bad....I got dizzy and motion sick from it. :/ I've never been motion sick.
And you're supposed to bypass this by removing the model?
then what's the model doing there at the first place?
I get so tired of doing the same argument over and over... it just never ends!
And the wallhack thing you totally misunderstood my point. The fact that I have not experienced it (thank god) makes me sound like a total idiot, but I do have a point from my post. I'm saying, if you're just going to remove the in-game model for convenience, why not remove the wall or everything then? While surely, you need another program for that, but doesn't it serve the same purpose as to <b>remove in-game features for your own personal benefit?</b>
Oh I think I'll remove the model... and the voice comm... and the sounds... and the textures.... and the hud..... and stuff.... I'll just make it so that NS is a game where i walk through grey walls shotting grey figures with just a crosshair and no guns and blah blah blah..........
[edit] And i want to reinforce that scripting is not cheating, but removing the weapon model is an exploit and should be dealed with. Certain scripts are okay, where as to bind keys, and make new key binds for weapons, command hot keys, stuff... that's fine. However, what's cheap are those attack sequence scripts or any other scripts that try to go around the game rules... If you're so willing to let the computer do all the work for you, and winning is so essential, why not just set up bots and watch them play?
And cheap.
Up until this week, I didn't know half these exploits/tweaks/whatever existed. Do you think it is fair that the games my teams have lost in the past turned out that way because the other team was cheating? Tweaking? Exploiting? Now every NS player who knows about this crap can more readily question the credibility of another player.. is that what everyone wants? Everyone screaming "hax!" and some being partially right? COME ON.
That .avi file with the bite-hack is sickening. Anyone going to say that they don't have a problem with that? Does anyone want to say "I have a problem with the bite-hack, but not with turning off model-animations." They're related! Even in the smallest way, it's circumventing balance issues.. and in a game like this, balance is more key than in almost ANY other FPS.
And as for buying better computer equipment making the game unfair.. Flayra has no control over that. He DOES have control over the content of his mod. He should work hard to keep it as fair as he possibly can. Take any professional sport (again) for example... player A is stronger than player B. Player A has a better chance at running faster or enduring longer, but the rules they both abide by are the same. The organizations that govern ANY sort of competition set rules.. they usually do not set weight limits, strength limits, eyesight limits. So the "You have higher FPS than me! The playing field will never be even!" is a BS argument.. the devs can't control it, only their mod and its rules! Bleh.
The bite radius of the khara was made a little wider to make it easier to hit strafing marines, this isn't a hack its a damned balancing feature
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The thing here is that anyone can turn r_drawviewmodel off if they want. So your point is completely invalid....
The bite radius of the khara was made a little wider to make it easier to hit strafing marines, this isn't a hack its a damned balancing feature<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Um...balancing feature? Are you serious?
Right now skulks can wreck havoc on marines, and it doesn't take some hack to extend the bite radius more then it is already. I routinely see skulks with scores of around 30 kills, and 5 - 10 deaths. I myself can chomp my way through numerous marines without getting killed when I play smart.
the skulk is a LEVEL 1 alien, the WEAKEST of them all. And you feel that his bite radius needs to be extended to balance him out? WTF?!
What a treat it would be if people left the balance issues up to the people who made the damn game, rather then hack in their own "balancing feature" adjustments.
Same goes with gun models and whatnot. When you go around your house on lollipop lane with the pink candy cars outside being driven by purple elephants with trombones, do you ever consider it MAY BE CHEATING?
Sjeesh what is with these people anyways, they prolly didn't put scores in for that exact reason, so nobody on a team is better than someone else...
Removing teeth = cheating (because it was made the way it is)
Altering models = cheating
Play it the way it came when you installed it. If you alter anything drastically (and don't go: "oooh i can set my gamma high too" because you're not that stupid and if you are, you should be doing other things with your time, like play lego).
As discussed in another topic, better hardware = better performance ingame. Of course it is, always has been, always will be. But it's NOT the same as giving yourself an advantage over someone who refuses to cheat and yet has the same hardware.
Cheating (= sign with a stripe through it) hardware advantage
What amazes me most is some of you put so much time into finding clever answers to accusations. If you'd spend as much time chasing tail as you spent finding and using exploits/cheats/whatnot, you wouldnt have time for computer games because your harem wouldnt let you.
Bah, enough ranting!
but when i replace my marines with pink figures it DOES give a HUGE advantage and IS cheating, same with bite, if it gives u an advantage (we're not talking about casual sound,model,sprite changes that you use because u perfer them, we're talking about changes that give u an advantage.)
My point is completely valid, because the average or casual player does not know all the little tweaks for the Half-Life engine or for this mod. The average player doesn't have much of a reason to go searching for these tweaks - they just play the game, completely unaware.
This is why I stated that I only learned of this stuff just recently, and that is because I frequent these forums. What about the other guy who doesn't?
My point stands, as much as you'd like it not to, I'm sure.
Anyone who doesnt have the exact same binds/keyboard/moniter/hardware and OS are cheating because they might have an advantage over me!
pft, I only die when somone has more FPS and ping witch makes it seem like they have better reactions, damn cheater needs to downgrade his connection speed and harware
and damn that guy who publicly said he rebinded, I mean the game came with default controlls, stupid cheater isnt playing on a level playing feild, and that guy who PTd, hes a big cheater because he got to practice before me
Then that other guy who snuck up behind me, hes an Fn cheater, I wasnt even looking at him! how fair is that!
/me sighs
Oh doombringer, the average player is the average player because hes not good, even if he did know the tweaks he would fall short.
And downgrade your computer! I think your getting 10 more FPS then me.
The point is to minimize advantages certain players have over others because of things other than actual playing skills.
Turning off the viewmodel does give an advantage and it is not an actual playing skill. Since it can be removed without too much effort, it should be.