your absolutly right, pedda make sure to put all your binds back to the default, lock your fps at 30. and turn your resolution down to 800 x 600. That would minimize it, what do you say, would that put us on a level playing feild? Yup it sure would.
Hrm, I just thought of somthing, maybe im not the one missing the point.
<!--QuoteBegin--Bob the Alien+Nov 27 2002, 04:51 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Bob the Alien @ Nov 27 2002, 04:51 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->your absolutly right, pedda make sure to put all your binds back to the default, lock your fps at 30. and turn your resolution down to 800 x 600. That would minimize it, what do you say, would that put us on a level playing feild? Yup it sure would.
Hrm, I just thought of somthing, maybe im not the one missing the point.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Just wondering, does this have any reference to my post? If so, please explain.
Bob please, your being a random flamer right now, I see no rhyme or reason to your random insults, and hostility. You are just trying to discredit people, where they deserve praise, they bring up good points. Just because a select few might be operating at a disadvantage does not mean everyone should cater to THEIR needs, we have what we have and that is that. People are adressing an issue with the MOD, not their computer.
<!--QuoteBegin--Pedda+Nov 27 2002, 08:55 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Pedda @ Nov 27 2002, 08:55 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--><!--QuoteBegin--Bob the Alien+Nov 27 2002, 04:51 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Bob the Alien @ Nov 27 2002, 04:51 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->your absolutly right, pedda make sure to put all your binds back to the default, lock your fps at 30. and turn your resolution down to 800 x 600. That would minimize it, what do you say, would that put us on a level playing feild? Yup it sure would.
Hrm, I just thought of somthing, maybe im not the one missing the point.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Just wondering, does this have any reference to my post? If so, please explain.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> You said you wanted a even playing field, that would even it, doesnt look so shiny does it?
Yes Bob, having a good computer might make you play better than a person with a bad one. The fact is that Flayra, or any developer cannot change that, so stop moaning and adress the issue at hand.
I said I'd like a playing field as even as possible without limiting the gameplay. By disabling the ability to get rid of the viewmodel you definately take a step in that direction.
Now disabling viewmodels in general is far from exploiting, in games like UT for example. I personally never disable them but I can understand people who do this for the slight performance and field of view advantage it gives them in those games. Emphasis on the word slight. But now in NS this is something different. Whereas in other games they're mostly there to give you something nice to look at, the models in Natural Selection are there for balance reasons (as far as I can gather, Flayra stated this) and hence are an essential part of the game mechanics. Disabling them gives you a huge field of view advantage which you simply should not have.
<!--QuoteBegin--Stung256+Nov 27 2002, 09:06 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Stung256 @ Nov 27 2002, 09:06 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Yes Bob, having a good computer might make you play better than a person with a bad one. The fact is that Flayra, or any developer cannot change that, so stop moaning and adress the issue at hand.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Actually I have a very nice computer, I get 50+ FPS at all times, the point is you people are trying to decide what advantages are right and what are wrong. Also the pure ignorence I have seen on servers over the last few weeks have make me volitile to this situation.
Yes Teeth scripts give a skulk a slight advantage, but imo its less then key rebinds
Yes rebinds give people a large advantage
Yes having a computer that runs smoothly and gets you high FPS is an advantage
Yes Having broadband is and advantage
You people are trying to draw the line on what is bad and good with very little experience doing both. I have seen tons of people accuse other people of stupid things on public servers which I allready said makes my volitile to this situation, I have seen somone accuse another person of using a bug so that he was invincable and got a really high ratio (what the person incorrectly heard was the spectator bug and assumed thats what he was doing), On another server I myself got into an argument and was being threatend to be banned because I was exploiting the "RR" bug and doing that somehow made me invincable, I dont know if the person was just smoking crack, or thought thats how our gorges where getting resources, but seeing as I never went into the RR after the game started it was pretty rediculous. I have seen people accuse others of useing this bite script when they havent thinking thats why they are getting owned, I myself have been accused several times of doing it when the only thing binded to mouse1 was +attack.
Its pretty sickening to see people moan and goan over somthing they think is giving somone else an advantage, It reminds me of two brothers fighting because one thinks the other got a bigger cookie. If there is a bug/exploit that needs fixing right now its the stupidity and uncooperation in the general public server, of course that will never be patched out, neither will the public ignorance of events going on.
You people assume anyone beating you is cheating, Gotta love the common public oppinion.
My main point through all of this is, I have played basicly since release with the stupid teeth and over the last day have tried using this script under different aliases then my normal one, And you know what? the returns where moot, I was still getting my exact same ratio, but do you know what was nice? After playing over 120+ hours since release finnaly not having those stupid teeth, IMO the devs should just get a new model, it doesnt balance anything it doesnt hurt anyone precious score, but it is the most damned annoying thing I have ever played with. In chronic play it has caused me so many problems.
You guys act like changing a model is the difference between life and death.
lol, but you don't believe that this was the last witchhunt, do you?
after the models are locked ppl will realize that they are STILL getting killed by superior players, and will quickly localize the next scapegoat feature, which will need to be "fixed immediately".
<!--QuoteBegin--Twex+Nov 27 2002, 09:37 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Twex @ Nov 27 2002, 09:37 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->lol, but you don't believe that this was the last witchhunt, do you?
after the models are locked ppl will realize that they are STILL getting killed by superior players, and will quickly localize the next scapegoat feature, which will need to be "fixed immediately".<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Of course, my bet is the next scape goat will be muzzle flash edditing, then toggle scritps.
I can just imagin it now "he leaped the IMEDIENTLY switched to bite, HAX!
::edit::
NvM people are allready saying alien armor is bugged, YAY!!!
<!--QuoteBegin--Flare+Nov 26 2002, 07:49 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Flare @ Nov 26 2002, 07:49 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->r_drawviewmodel is not an exploit nor a cheat, its called a <b>tweak</b>, nothing more, nothing less, simple as that. its been around it all games for quite some time and is quite popular for competitive gaming especially in ladder matches. i can hardly see it being banned.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Flare sums up my thoughts.
Don't like it? Fine don't use it. Don't try and force your beliefs on us.
Normally the use of r_drawviewmodel is not considered exploiting/cheating but in NS its different. Why? because the team made it so if you do use it some of your screen info is not displayed. From what I gather this was done intentionally so as to discourage ppl from using the command. I have also read, somewhere here on these forums, that the actual command will be nerfed sometime in a later release thereby preventing ppl from removing thier weapon models and such from the screen. Of course this may not be correct. <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='confused.gif'><!--endemo-->
Wow. I just read through most of this thread, and I was amazed at some of the responses.
the drawmodel thing IS NOT A CHEAT. You can do it in counter-strike, and just about every single other HL mod. It is commplished with ONE COMMAND into the console. Wow, guess what folks!
<sarcasm> Natural Selection was kind enough the BUILD IN CHEATS for us! how nice! </sarcasm>
Furthermore, as has been said by others, this is a relitivly slight advantage. Personally, I think the guy that gets 100 fps on like 1200x1600 resolution has the advantage over me with my 30 fps on 800x600. Do i care? Not really.
Oh yeah, we should all downgrade our mice b/c some ppl have crappy ball mice that get stuck sometimes.
We should all have the same exact key configurations! Because thats the fair thing to do, right? YOU OVER THERE! You rebound your reload key! HACKER!
To those of you who are saying the dev team should lock the drawmodel command, guess what. All you have to do is use a custom model instead. And if they lock custom models, it will destroy a community of modelers before its even really started. That would be a BAD decision.
I thought the marine gun flash was pretty distracting to... guess what. I use the pulse rifle model. Its helped me shoot better I have to say. Does that mean they should lock the LMG model? GOD I hope not, i mean its a decent model but I don't want to have to look at the original LMG for the rest of the time I play NS. SHEESH!
Find something else to whine about. The real cheaters use REAL cheats, go whine about them plz. This is pathetic.
Yes I turn off my bite model. I find it odd and unrealistic that as a skulk I am given the viewport through the back of my throat. This is obviously not something a real skulk (no, skulks aren't REALLY real, duh <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo--> ) would have to deal with.
<!--QuoteBegin--ShadowWolf+Nov 27 2002, 07:09 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (ShadowWolf @ Nov 27 2002, 07:09 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Furthermore, as has been said by others, this is a relitivly slight advantage. Personally, I think the guy that gets 100 fps on like 1200x1600 resolution has the advantage over me with my 30 fps on 800x600. Do i care? Not really.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Well i read the first few pages when they were first posted and now i come back and find its 8 pages long :/ I didnt bother to read the whole thing but does the above qoute mean youve been arguing that its cheating to have a better graphics card then someone else???
If so then OMFG! every single one of you (nearly) is cheating! and i demand that you all melt your graphics cards to have **obscenity** up ones like mine!!!
Anyone who's played ANY quake or quake-based game EVER knows about commands like these. I can pretty much guarantee that the people complaining that r_drawviewmodel is a "cheat" haven't played anything before HL. They are thus newbies, and wouldn't know the difference between a cheat and their own **obscenity**. In fact, i'm willing to bet that half of you are nowhere NEAR qualified to comment on what is and isn't there "for balance".
Like someone else said, lock your FPS at 30 and cap your rate at 5000. If you're SOOOOOO concerned about eliminating "advantages", PROVE IT and do those things. Oh, what? Everyone EXCEPT YOU is supposed to play without "advantages"? I don't think so.
Why does the CPL have identical high-end machines for tournament participants? To ensure that everyone is on a level playing field. The strict adherence to default visual settings is possbly ONLY because THEY ARE PROVIDING MACHINES THAT DO NOT NEED TWEAKS TO MAINTAIN HIGH FRAMERATES.
IS THIS POSSIBLE IN ONLINE PLAY? <u>No, jackasses</u>. There are differences in connections, so we have cl_rate, cl_updaterate, and cl_cmdrate TO COMPENSATE. There are differences in hardware, so we have visual tweaks TO COMPENSATE. It's been like this <b>since DOOM</b>. It's time for you retards to get up to speed. With all the differences in hardware, detail options will always be necessary. Online play will also NEVER be level, so long as there are people with modems playing against people with broadband, and people with high framerates playing with people who have low framerates. DEAL WITH IT, CANDYASSES.
Is the bite powerful? Yes. Are skulks extremely vulnerable to LMG fire? Yes. Even when they have r_drawviewmodel off, i can take one out with less than a full clip of <i>pistol</i> fire. If a skulk kills you, r_drawviewmodel 0 or not, it's because he was better. Period. Either you suck at aiming, you went off without backup, he has more experience, or you put yourself in a position where he could sneak up on you. Either way, the problem is on YOUR end, not with r_drawviewmodel. This is just another case of incompetent newbies joining the marine team because of the "Dur, they gots guns, just like CS" factor, and then complaining at random about anything that could've caused their ingame demise. Anything, of course, other than their own incompetence. This includes possible EM interference from solar flares and sunspots. I've had about enough of this garbage on pub servers, and you llamas need to go **obscenity** yourselves.
Even with r_drawviewmodel on, you can still see well enough infront of you when the jaws are fully closed. And even when they ARE closed, they're closed for a FRACTION of a second. And what's more, even if it IS meant to blind you, it makes absolutely zero, zilch, NADA sense for a player's weapon to only be usable when he can't even see what he's aiming at. This is called "common sense". You people should try it sometime.
This has jack **obscenity** to do with balance. Is Flayra unable to change the RoF or damage for the bite attack? No? Then the fact that the skulk's eyes are in its mouth is nothing more than a baseless decision, and a total lapse of judgement. Now that i think about it, that's probably why it's there; rational judgement doesn't seem to be his strong point. If parts of the HUD are deliberately tied to r_drawviewmodel and engine limitations are NOT the reason, then it comes down to lazy game balance. Plain and simple.
Wee I just got banned from #naturalselection in IRC because my opinion differed from the IRC admins and half of them are too immature to even think somone else has a good point.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Then the fact that the skulk's eyes are in its mouth is nothing more than a baseless decision, and a total lapse of judgement. Now that i think about it, that's probably why it's there; rational judgement doesn't seem to be his strong point.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The skulk's eyes being in its mouth wasn't a baseless decision; Flayra, the other devs, and playtesters argued over its placement for quite some time before reaching a general consensus that that was the most immersive location and offered a built in balancing feature.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> can take one out with less than a full clip of <i>pistol</i> fire<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I won't bother stooping to your level and peppering this with condescension and insults, but the pistol is meant to be powerful and accurate. Its drawback is its small magazine size and limited backup ammunition levels. So taking down a level one with it doesn't prove much, really.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->And what's more, even if it IS meant to blind you, it makes absolutely zero, zilch, NADA sense for a player's weapon to only be usable when he can't even see what he's aiming at.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Technically, for the split second when the mouth is closed the weapon is actually <b>unusable</b> as it's currently <i>in use</i>. You have to wait out the brief period in which the mouth opens again to fire another 'shot' off. Kind of like how when you chamber a new round in the CS scout or the awm your eye is removed from the scope, and the weapon is temporarily inoperable. Common sense, indeed.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->You people make me sick. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Someone with your temperament isn't exactly a treat, either . . .
<!--QuoteBegin--mndeg+Nov 27 2002, 05:45 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (mndeg @ Nov 27 2002, 05:45 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--><!--QuoteBegin--Bob the Alien+Nov 27 2002, 08:20 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Bob the Alien @ Nov 27 2002, 08:20 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Wee I just got banned from #naturalselection in IRC because my opinion differed from the IRC admins and half of them are too immature to even think somone else has a good point.
gg logic.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> me too!<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> omg lets start a club in #nsred
Necro<insert non-birthday-related title here>Join Date: 2002-08-09Member: 1118Members
<!--QuoteBegin--Ahnteis+Nov 27 2002, 10:58 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Ahnteis @ Nov 27 2002, 10:58 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Maybe you folks should read what the devs have said on the subject instead of telling everyone it's OK to remove the model.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> where's this?
Im not going to make 5 pages long of how lame this whole subject is, saying that using the command is cheap or a hack, or a cheat. becuase i could write about 20 pages worth of how dumb this whole thing is. Saying r_drawviewmodel is cheap is just like saying hud_fastswitch is cheap. that is ALL i have to say. i do not use hud_fastswitch, should i call all those kids that do use it hackers? it is easier for them to leap at me and then bite me in mid air then it is for me. Is that cheap?
you know when you dont have r_drawviewmodel on you cant see the progress of the buildings you are building as well as cant see the # of hives you have or upgrades or whatnot.... oh wait this was a flame about the teeth oh well i still got roned as skulk when i had this on...just made it easier to see the guy who killed me RAWR
<!--QuoteBegin--remiCs+Nov 28 2002, 03:18 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (remiCs @ Nov 28 2002, 03:18 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Im not going to make 5 pages long of how lame this whole subject is, saying that using the command is cheap or a hack, or a cheat. becuase i could write about 20 pages worth of how dumb this whole thing is. Saying r_drawviewmodel is cheap is just like saying hud_fastswitch is cheap. that is ALL i have to say. i do not use hud_fastswitch, should i call all those kids that do use it hackers? it is easier for them to leap at me and then bite me in mid air then it is for me. Is that cheap?<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> hud_fastswitch is a choice in the customize menu
would you be any less ignorant?
It is totally different.
Stop trying to merge r_view with some of the scripts/binds or c_vars that are used ingame... it is a different matter with just binds or hud_fastswitch... It removes things that block your view of aiming, makes you easier to aim, simple as that. And people find it cheap because it is not an <b>option</b> made <b>public</b> for everyone including newbies. It is a tweak, an exploit and it should not be allowed. Developer said <b>No</b> and don't support it, end of argument.
TalesinOur own little well of hateJoin Date: 2002-11-08Member: 7710NS1 Playtester, Forum Moderators
edited November 2002
Actually, this *has* gone from serious to silly. Personally, I have no problem taking down a Marine, chomp-chompeh. So is holding forward while you bite to make sure your target doesn't move/hasn't moved out of the way a cheat? How I determine it. If I've moved the instant the teeth start to open again, I start looking around for where they went, still on the run. If *anything*, I'd say that the superball-on-crack Marines are an exploit. The crouching hitbox bug on Marines is an exploit. But insofar I haven't seen ANYONE doing anything but defending them as valid gameplay techniques. The first, which exploits the Skulk's already limited FOV (you pretty much have to have your screen full of Marine to chomp).. if they strafe, you LOSE them while they're bouncing all over the place, and you're moving at Mach 1 to keep from getting hit by their crouchjumping just-as-accurate LMG or pistol fire, using Celerity 3.. something that would not happen to a predator in the same actual situation. The second, watching a marine sit and crouch in a corner with a welder, essentially invincible considering the welder does 10dmg *10/sec, with their hitboxes in the floor under their feet.
It actually *does* make sense though, about 'hardware cheating'. It's just paying RL cash for greater ability to work what skill you have. I'll gleefully admit that my 100fps rock-solid at 1024x768x32 is a form of cheating. That my DSL line compared to a 56K is cheating. It will eke out an additional kill against someone of greater skill, if their system only performs half as well. We're both running the 'default' mod, yet *I* have an advantage. I've paid for it. I pay monthly for it. Next up, if you know how to tweak your video card drivers for greater performance, where an original-run Athlon 700 (Slot A.. none of this Thunderbird BS) with an ATI Radeon 9000 Pro can peg at 100 solid, compared to someone who just runs the default drivers on an XP1600, 1800, or 2000+, am I cheating? According to most of the posts on this thread, yes I am. I paid the same amount (less, actually), downloaded the same mod, run with the same mod defaults.. but I get greater performance. I can see clearer, move smoother, jump more accurately, and stand a GOOD chance of someone only running 24-30fps normal of missing me in a firefight, against the muzzle flash and general slowdown. Why? Because I'm *exploiting* the knowledge I've earned, to make my system run Half-Life more efficiently.
Seriously, compared to a lot of the other arguments in this thread, the logic in the above two paragraphs follows and is flawless. But more to the point, would anyone COMPLAIN about it? That their system sucks and mine is tweaked for maximum output? NO. Because *they* didn't take the time to do it. *They* didn't bother to learn the tricks to fix their machine, and shave out every last bit of performance-per-clock. They didn't bother to put out the effort to take a look at information that was available to the PUBLIC, and put it to use.
Yet if someone does the same thing to change ONE default variable, they're horrific cheating SOBs.
I was considering redoing a few of the NS models to be high-poly and/or Truform-friendly, for those machines that could handle it. I personally am TIRED of being pegged at 100fps, intense firefight or staring at a wall. Bought a good video card, and it works well... rendering relatively low-detail models, chewing up and spitting out anything that NS can hand to it. At this point it looks like that isn't going to be happening with the 'model consistency' problems that are already popping up here and there.
<!--QuoteBegin--BathroomMonkey+Nov 27 2002, 03:35 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (BathroomMonkey @ Nov 27 2002, 03:35 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> The skulk's eyes being in its mouth wasn't a baseless decision; Flayra, the other devs, and playtesters argued over its placement for quite some time before reaching a general consensus that that was the most immersive location and offered a built in balancing feature. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Sure, if you replace "immersive" with "pointlessly intrusive".
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I won't bother stooping to your level and peppering this with condescension and insults, but the pistol is meant to be powerful and accurate. Its drawback is its small magazine size and limited backup ammunition levels. So taking down a level one with it doesn't prove much, really. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Right. So you'll just stoop to the level of giving pretentious "explainations" that would give holocaust deconstructionists something to laugh about.
Its drawback is also that it requires better aim due to that lack of clip size, making it the hardest marine gun to take them on with, short of the grenade launcher which has splash damage. If you want to get picky, killing a skulk with an LMG is even easier thanks to the clip size, rate of fire, and full-auto capabilities. The point, captain obvious, is that skulks are fragile and r_drawviewmodel 0 does nothing to negate that fact.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Technically, for the split second when the mouth is closed the weapon is actually <b>unusable</b> as it's currently <i>in use</i>. You have to wait out the brief period in which the mouth opens again to fire another 'shot' off. Kind of like how when you chamber a new round in the CS scout or the awm your eye is removed from the scope, and the weapon is temporarily inoperable. Common sense, indeed. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yeah, kind of like that. Except, not. "Technically", you're really stretching for your BS answers. I've seen political speechwriters spin less garbage. That comparison invalidates itself simply by <i>existing</i>.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Someone with your temperament isn't exactly a treat, either . . .<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Neither is the thought of having the game i like being on the path to ruin due to the lamest "logic" i've ever seen. I have a thing about not liking morons. Sue me. First it's r_drawviewmodel, then what? Maybe "skulks that bark bees when they bark!"?
i think asking peeps if they have been hit by a car is much funnier..
If you have removed bite model, then you are really lame, and ar skilless If you have the bite model there, and you hate it, but keeps it, you are not lame..
Comments
Hrm, I just thought of somthing, maybe im not the one missing the point.
Hrm, I just thought of somthing, maybe im not the one missing the point.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Just wondering, does this have any reference to my post? If so, please explain.
Hrm, I just thought of somthing, maybe im not the one missing the point.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Just wondering, does this have any reference to my post? If so, please explain.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You said you wanted a even playing field, that would even it, doesnt look so shiny does it?
Now disabling viewmodels in general is far from exploiting, in games like UT for example. I personally never disable them but I can understand people who do this for the slight performance and field of view advantage it gives them in those games. Emphasis on the word slight.
But now in NS this is something different. Whereas in other games they're mostly there to give you something nice to look at, the models in Natural Selection are there for balance reasons (as far as I can gather, Flayra stated this) and hence are an essential part of the game mechanics. Disabling them gives you a huge field of view advantage which you simply should not have.
Actually I have a very nice computer, I get 50+ FPS at all times, the point is you people are trying to decide what advantages are right and what are wrong. Also the pure ignorence I have seen on servers over the last few weeks have make me volitile to this situation.
Yes Teeth scripts give a skulk a slight advantage, but imo its less then key rebinds
Yes rebinds give people a large advantage
Yes having a computer that runs smoothly and gets you high FPS is an advantage
Yes Having broadband is and advantage
You people are trying to draw the line on what is bad and good with very little experience doing both. I have seen tons of people accuse other people of stupid things on public servers which I allready said makes my volitile to this situation, I have seen somone accuse another person of using a bug so that he was invincable and got a really high ratio (what the person incorrectly heard was the spectator bug and assumed thats what he was doing), On another server I myself got into an argument and was being threatend to be banned because I was exploiting the "RR" bug and doing that somehow made me invincable, I dont know if the person was just smoking crack, or thought thats how our gorges where getting resources, but seeing as I never went into the RR after the game started it was pretty rediculous. I have seen people accuse others of useing this bite script when they havent thinking thats why they are getting owned, I myself have been accused several times of doing it when the only thing binded to mouse1 was +attack.
Its pretty sickening to see people moan and goan over somthing they think is giving somone else an advantage, It reminds me of two brothers fighting because one thinks the other got a bigger cookie. If there is a bug/exploit that needs fixing right now its the stupidity and uncooperation in the general public server, of course that will never be patched out, neither will the public ignorance of events going on.
You people assume anyone beating you is cheating, Gotta love the common public oppinion.
My main point through all of this is, I have played basicly since release with the stupid teeth and over the last day have tried using this script under different aliases then my normal one, And you know what? the returns where moot, I was still getting my exact same ratio, but do you know what was nice? After playing over 120+ hours since release finnaly not having those stupid teeth, IMO the devs should just get a new model, it doesnt balance anything it doesnt hurt anyone precious score, but it is the most damned annoying thing I have ever played with. In chronic play it has caused me so many problems.
You guys act like changing a model is the difference between life and death.
-"whoever crys the loudest is heard the most"
Maybe we can some day just get rid of this rediculous model alltogether
after the models are locked ppl will realize that they are STILL getting killed by superior players, and will quickly localize the next scapegoat feature, which will need to be "fixed immediately".
after the models are locked ppl will realize that they are STILL getting killed by superior players, and will quickly localize the next scapegoat feature, which will need to be "fixed immediately".<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Of course, my bet is the next scape goat will be muzzle flash edditing, then toggle scritps.
I can just imagin it now "he leaped the IMEDIENTLY switched to bite, HAX!
::edit::
NvM people are allready saying alien armor is bugged, YAY!!!
Flare sums up my thoughts.
Don't like it? Fine don't use it. Don't try and force your beliefs on us.
removing gunflames is lame to..
the drawmodel thing IS NOT A CHEAT. You can do it in counter-strike, and just about every single other HL mod. It is commplished with ONE COMMAND into the console. Wow, guess what folks!
<sarcasm> Natural Selection was kind enough the BUILD IN CHEATS for us! how nice! </sarcasm>
Furthermore, as has been said by others, this is a relitivly slight advantage. Personally, I think the guy that gets 100 fps on like 1200x1600 resolution has the advantage over me with my 30 fps on 800x600. Do i care? Not really.
Oh yeah, we should all downgrade our mice b/c some ppl have crappy ball mice that get stuck sometimes.
We should all have the same exact key configurations! Because thats the fair thing to do, right? YOU OVER THERE! You rebound your reload key! HACKER!
To those of you who are saying the dev team should lock the drawmodel command, guess what. All you have to do is use a custom model instead. And if they lock custom models, it will destroy a community of modelers before its even really started. That would be a BAD decision.
I thought the marine gun flash was pretty distracting to... guess what. I use the pulse rifle model. Its helped me shoot better I have to say. Does that mean they should lock the LMG model? GOD I hope not, i mean its a decent model but I don't want to have to look at the original LMG for the rest of the time I play NS. SHEESH!
Find something else to whine about. The real cheaters use REAL cheats, go whine about them plz. This is pathetic.
Yes I turn off my bite model. I find it odd and unrealistic that as a skulk I am given the viewport through the back of my throat. This is obviously not something a real skulk (no, skulks aren't REALLY real, duh <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo--> ) would have to deal with.
<!--emo&::skulk::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/skulk.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='skulk.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--emo&::asrifle::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/asrifle.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='asrifle.gif'><!--endemo-->
Well i read the first few pages when they were first posted and now i come back and find its 8 pages long :/
I didnt bother to read the whole thing but does the above qoute mean youve been arguing that its cheating to have a better graphics card then someone else???
If so then OMFG! every single one of you (nearly) is cheating! and i demand that you all melt your graphics cards to have **obscenity** up ones like mine!!!
Like someone else said, lock your FPS at 30 and cap your rate at 5000. If you're SOOOOOO concerned about eliminating "advantages", PROVE IT and do those things. Oh, what? Everyone EXCEPT YOU is supposed to play without "advantages"? I don't think so.
Why does the CPL have identical high-end machines for tournament participants? To ensure that everyone is on a level playing field. The strict adherence to default visual settings is possbly ONLY because THEY ARE PROVIDING MACHINES THAT DO NOT NEED TWEAKS TO MAINTAIN HIGH FRAMERATES.
IS THIS POSSIBLE IN ONLINE PLAY? <u>No, jackasses</u>. There are differences in connections, so we have cl_rate, cl_updaterate, and cl_cmdrate TO COMPENSATE. There are differences in hardware, so we have visual tweaks TO COMPENSATE. It's been like this <b>since DOOM</b>. It's time for you retards to get up to speed. With all the differences in hardware, detail options will always be necessary. Online play will also NEVER be level, so long as there are people with modems playing against people with broadband, and people with high framerates playing with people who have low framerates. DEAL WITH IT, CANDYASSES.
Is the bite powerful? Yes. Are skulks extremely vulnerable to LMG fire? Yes. Even when they have r_drawviewmodel off, i can take one out with less than a full clip of <i>pistol</i> fire. If a skulk kills you, r_drawviewmodel 0 or not, it's because he was better. Period. Either you suck at aiming, you went off without backup, he has more experience, or you put yourself in a position where he could sneak up on you. Either way, the problem is on YOUR end, not with r_drawviewmodel. This is just another case of incompetent newbies joining the marine team because of the "Dur, they gots guns, just like CS" factor, and then complaining at random about anything that could've caused their ingame demise. Anything, of course, other than their own incompetence. This includes possible EM interference from solar flares and sunspots. I've had about enough of this garbage on pub servers, and you llamas need to go **obscenity** yourselves.
Even with r_drawviewmodel on, you can still see well enough infront of you when the jaws are fully closed. And even when they ARE closed, they're closed for a FRACTION of a second. And what's more, even if it IS meant to blind you, it makes absolutely zero, zilch, NADA sense for a player's weapon to only be usable when he can't even see what he's aiming at. This is called "common sense". You people should try it sometime.
This has jack **obscenity** to do with balance. Is Flayra unable to change the RoF or damage for the bite attack? No? Then the fact that the skulk's eyes are in its mouth is nothing more than a baseless decision, and a total lapse of judgement. Now that i think about it, that's probably why it's there; rational judgement doesn't seem to be his strong point. If parts of the HUD are deliberately tied to r_drawviewmodel and engine limitations are NOT the reason, then it comes down to lazy game balance. Plain and simple.
You people make me sick.
gg logic.
The skulk's eyes being in its mouth wasn't a baseless decision; Flayra, the other devs, and playtesters argued over its placement for quite some time before reaching a general consensus that that was the most immersive location and offered a built in balancing feature.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> can take one out with less than a full clip of <i>pistol</i> fire<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I won't bother stooping to your level and peppering this with condescension and insults, but the pistol is meant to be powerful and accurate. Its drawback is its small magazine size and limited backup ammunition levels. So taking down a level one with it doesn't prove much, really.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->And what's more, even if it IS meant to blind you, it makes absolutely zero, zilch, NADA sense for a player's weapon to only be usable when he can't even see what he's aiming at.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Technically, for the split second when the mouth is closed the weapon is actually <b>unusable</b> as it's currently <i>in use</i>. You have to wait out the brief period in which the mouth opens again to fire another 'shot' off. Kind of like how when you chamber a new round in the CS scout or the awm your eye is removed from the scope, and the weapon is temporarily inoperable. Common sense, indeed.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->You people make me sick. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Someone with your temperament isn't exactly a treat, either . . .
gg logic.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
me too!<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
omg lets start a club in #nsred
where's this?
hud_fastswitch is a choice in the customize menu
would you be any less ignorant?
It is totally different.
Stop trying to merge r_view with some of the scripts/binds or c_vars that are used ingame... it is a different matter with just binds or hud_fastswitch... It removes things that block your view of aiming, makes you easier to aim, simple as that. And people find it cheap because it is not an <b>option</b> made <b>public</b> for everyone including newbies. It is a tweak, an exploit and it should not be allowed. Developer said <b>No</b> and don't support it, end of argument.
It actually *does* make sense though, about 'hardware cheating'. It's just paying RL cash for greater ability to work what skill you have. I'll gleefully admit that my 100fps rock-solid at 1024x768x32 is a form of cheating. That my DSL line compared to a 56K is cheating. It will eke out an additional kill against someone of greater skill, if their system only performs half as well. We're both running the 'default' mod, yet *I* have an advantage. I've paid for it. I pay monthly for it.
Next up, if you know how to tweak your video card drivers for greater performance, where an original-run Athlon 700 (Slot A.. none of this Thunderbird BS) with an ATI Radeon 9000 Pro can peg at 100 solid, compared to someone who just runs the default drivers on an XP1600, 1800, or 2000+, am I cheating? According to most of the posts on this thread, yes I am. I paid the same amount (less, actually), downloaded the same mod, run with the same mod defaults.. but I get greater performance. I can see clearer, move smoother, jump more accurately, and stand a GOOD chance of someone only running 24-30fps normal of missing me in a firefight, against the muzzle flash and general slowdown. Why? Because I'm *exploiting* the knowledge I've earned, to make my system run Half-Life more efficiently.
Seriously, compared to a lot of the other arguments in this thread, the logic in the above two paragraphs follows and is flawless. But more to the point, would anyone COMPLAIN about it? That their system sucks and mine is tweaked for maximum output? NO. Because *they* didn't take the time to do it. *They* didn't bother to learn the tricks to fix their machine, and shave out every last bit of performance-per-clock. They didn't bother to put out the effort to take a look at information that was available to the PUBLIC, and put it to use.
Yet if someone does the same thing to change ONE default variable, they're horrific cheating SOBs.
I was considering redoing a few of the NS models to be high-poly and/or Truform-friendly, for those machines that could handle it. I personally am TIRED of being pegged at 100fps, intense firefight or staring at a wall. Bought a good video card, and it works well... rendering relatively low-detail models, chewing up and spitting out anything that NS can hand to it. At this point it looks like that isn't going to be happening with the 'model consistency' problems that are already popping up here and there.
Darwin says 'hi'. Oh, and 'look behind you'.
<!--emo&::skulk::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/skulk.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='skulk.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--emo&::asrifle::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/asrifle.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='asrifle.gif'><!--endemo--> <<<b>CHOMPEH!!</b>>> <!--emo&::gorge::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/pudgy.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='pudgy.gif'><!--endemo-->
The skulk's eyes being in its mouth wasn't a baseless decision; Flayra, the other devs, and playtesters argued over its placement for quite some time before reaching a general consensus that that was the most immersive location and offered a built in balancing feature.
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Sure, if you replace "immersive" with "pointlessly intrusive".
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->
I won't bother stooping to your level and peppering this with condescension and insults, but the pistol is meant to be powerful and accurate. Its drawback is its small magazine size and limited backup ammunition levels. So taking down a level one with it doesn't prove much, really.
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Right. So you'll just stoop to the level of giving pretentious "explainations" that would give holocaust deconstructionists something to laugh about.
Its drawback is also that it requires better aim due to that lack of clip size, making it the hardest marine gun to take them on with, short of the grenade launcher which has splash damage. If you want to get picky, killing a skulk with an LMG is even easier thanks to the clip size, rate of fire, and full-auto capabilities. The point, captain obvious, is that skulks are fragile and r_drawviewmodel 0 does nothing to negate that fact.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->
Technically, for the split second when the mouth is closed the weapon is actually <b>unusable</b> as it's currently <i>in use</i>. You have to wait out the brief period in which the mouth opens again to fire another 'shot' off. Kind of like how when you chamber a new round in the CS scout or the awm your eye is removed from the scope, and the weapon is temporarily inoperable. Common sense, indeed.
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yeah, kind of like that. Except, not. "Technically", you're really stretching for your BS answers. I've seen political speechwriters spin less garbage. That comparison invalidates itself simply by <i>existing</i>.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->
Someone with your temperament isn't exactly a treat, either . . .<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Neither is the thought of having the game i like being on the path to ruin due to the lamest "logic" i've ever seen. I have a thing about not liking morons. Sue me. First it's r_drawviewmodel, then what? Maybe "skulks that bark bees when they bark!"?
There's just <i>nothing</i> that you could do to explain to them because their logic is <i>different</i>...
If you have removed bite model, then you are really lame, and ar skilless
If you have the bite model there, and you hate it, but keeps it, you are not lame..