(I liked that <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->)
But do try to stay on topic <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Like the idea (I realize I'm kind of late hehe) This would make it so killing the alien's 3rd hive does more than get rid of charge and water balloons (ok so getting rid of xeno and web is nice) since aliens are generally smart enough to build backup chambers any time a hive is going down. Also gets rid of some of the pubbie griefing (dropping sense first without asking =\ )
Yes give me the ability to have fun early as a skulk with sensory without **** off the entire server and getting myself banned.
This simple change could potentialy make ns 100000% more stratigic there is not a single person here on the forums that doesnt see how much this change could dramaticaly improve the stratigic value of ns.
THis one amazing change solves early game rapage by marines. THIS IMproves the SKULK JUST HOW IVE ALWAYS WANTED AND HAVE BEEN COMPLAING FOR. It SOLVES the gorges getting raped early game problem. It solves the 1 person drops sense so everyone leaves and the person who dorps it gets banned problem.
there are no downsides to this idea. if this is implemented things can ONLY get better.
Funny Flayra replied to <a href='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=72035' target='_blank'>this</a> thread but hasnt even graced us with an answer in here <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/sad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Actualy I just did a search of this forums and it looks like he has only ever made 4 posts in this forum <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/sad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad.gif' /><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin-Xyrcai+May 30 2004, 04:23 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Xyrcai @ May 30 2004, 04:23 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> This topic doesnt make him cash =P <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Interesting idea. Payment per post. Hmm.
(bumpage)
Unchain the chambers!
I have invested a fwe nights thought into this and still can't see a downside. Possible half-downsides would be:
Explaining to NSPlayers that there is no longer *any* reason for patronising me with shouts of "omg s3ns3 1st choo n00b". Acutally, I tihnk I would enjoy explaining that. <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif' /><!--endemo-->
What else. Hmm. New refinements in clan play would throw ladders around. ("Well, if we could have had done this this and this with these chambers then we may not have lost in this this and this match.")
Any others?
If not, let's get it in beta5. <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif' /><!--endemo-->
*edit1* nevermind.. i cant post images here. <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo--> *edit2* <--- I put the image on my avatar now
<!--QuoteBegin-Injuis+May 30 2004, 01:52 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Injuis @ May 30 2004, 01:52 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Great idea! As is it, DMS is getting old and forces alien players to follow the same strategy over and over and over again (At least on pubs, anyway). A new system would really bring back the joy of playing something different, something besides a human with a gun and something to shoot at.
Here's another idea I've seen floating around the forums in the past: the ability to mix upgrades for each chamber. For example, giving a skulk the ability to choose 2 carapace upgrades and 1 regen. Or 2 adrenaline upgrades and one celerity. Or 1 cloak, 1 carapace, 1 regen. We've already seen multiple upgrades in Combat and having a limited version of the Combat system in Classic would, in my opinion, not have too drastic of a balancing issue (since using multiple upgrades reduce the efficiency of each individual upgrade) and will bring a very different strategic atmosphere for Alien players.
Combining the above suggestion with the original posters' would not be too complicated either. You would just limited the amount of upgrades to 3 x (# of hives built). So at 1 hive you have at most 3 upgrades and at 3 hives you get all 9 options. Upgrades could be reduced to 1 res each (in order to penalize different ugprade paths) or stay at 2 res for 3 upgrades of the same kind.
Using both ideas in conjunction would really put the spark back in alien play and eliminate the existence of the "must have upgrade." It can also put some use into those upgrades that don't find their way into games under the current system (like redemption or silence).
Early game Aliens are far too weak!! <!--emo&::asrifle::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/asrifle.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='asrifle.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--emo&::skulk::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/skulk.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='skulk.gif' /><!--endemo--> THEY NEED BEEFYNESS, heh. <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Please devs! Put some pop back into Alien play and reply to these posts with your thoughts!! <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Thats the same idea I was having while I was reading this thread. =)
<!--QuoteBegin-Ryo-Ohki+May 30 2004, 09:28 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Ryo-Ohki @ May 30 2004, 09:28 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Change your avatar for great justice! Spread the word! <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> God, that rocks. Sorry Kylie, I've got to retire the cute gorge for now!
You just have to evolve once per level for each upgrade you want...
Imagine fighting cloaked skulks.... celerity skulks, and carapace skulks all at once...
The main problem now is marines need only find out what the aliens chambers are and they have a counter all the time
Sensory..... Get Mt and lvl 1 armor Defense.....upgrade rush Motion..... what the hell were these aliens thinking.... rush heavy armor...(lol)
With this variation.. which is similar to some variations suggested above (and i have written this up in my own suggestion thread twice now) is that aliens get to keep thier INDEPENDENT nature.. getting whatever the hell they want... but are still tied down by teamwork in that someone needs to build the chambers... and in that they are still tied to the hives also (hivemind) in that they need 2-3 hives for sufficient upgrades for higher lifeforms...
Just my variation on what has already been suggested.. `Jason
i think the main problem is that for sensory, SOF is really worthless until the very end of the game to search out and find the last few marines, why not make SOF auto onto everyone and giveing the skulk a spray like of the lerk that doesnt do any damage and slowly wares off over time, say 3-6 mins pretty much it doesnt do any damage to a marine and its like the parasite
focus really isnt used much unless you know you have a good team and can focus rush the marines before they get armor 1
cloaking is sort of a hit or miss thing, sure its fun for awhile but after awhile when peopel start shooting randomly at places and hallways its almost useless, devor and onos cloaking is still very funny tho =p
the DMS is a major one, mainly because on pub servers not everyone is good so when you dont have good players rines get to own you alot with either MDS or SDM.
i also played a game recently where aliens had the rines pined down in Biodome hive, and end up loseing becuase HA went though vents and killed the hives, they where also pined down for a good 40-50 mins there also, ive also seened that soem places are too easily defended by rines mainly because you cant get an onos into the area without it either 1 imposable or 2 the onos dies in 4 seconds of peeking its head though the area
Scent of Fear is actually my preferred upgrade of Sensory.. Hell, it's my favorite overall. It's great for ambushing. You can time perfectly when to drop right on someone.. and also see how many are comin behind'em..Helps to see where a rush is comin from also..
You kidding? SOF is godly. Its the one and only Sensory Upgrade I use. Cloak is usually provided by static chambers, so I don't need that, and knowing how many marines are where is just unparalled useful info. It lets you know ahead of time where to attack, when to attack, and wether or not theres even a point to attacking! SOF+Xeno nets me a tonn of kills/res to.
<!--QuoteBegin-Ryo-Ohki+May 30 2004, 10:23 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Ryo-Ohki @ May 30 2004, 10:23 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Okay, why don't we just start a poll?<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Unfortunatly we can't; looks like only forum mods can start one. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> *Prays for a Poll*
SewlekThe programmer previously known as SchimmelJoin Date: 2003-05-13Member: 16247Members, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Gold, Subnautica Developer
Updated my Avatar <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' /><!--endemo--> In all NS related Forums <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif' /><!--endemo-->
SewlekThe programmer previously known as SchimmelJoin Date: 2003-05-13Member: 16247Members, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Gold, Subnautica Developer
Hey, I startet a poll at the ausns Forums. You can view it overe here: <a href='http://www.ausns.com/forum/index.php?act=ST&f=103&t=7243#' target='_blank'>AusNS Poll</a>
It would make NS so much more fun because there would be some diversity in it. Maybee I'd give up playing BF:V so much and start playing NS again if they put this in.
I vote for unchaining the chambers! (yea, I know this is not a democracy)
<!--QuoteBegin-Ryo-Ohki+May 25 2004, 09:22 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Ryo-Ohki @ May 25 2004, 09:22 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Currently alien stratagy is in a rut. Almost since the first days of NS's public release in October 2002 the chamber order has been Defense - Movement - Sensory, or DMS. Despite attempts in 2.0 to make sensory a move viable opening chamber, DMS reasserted itself with disturbing speed.
The fact of the matter is that DMS will never go away as long as the current system remains. No Onos, Fade or Lerk is going to trade regen for focus, and no alien team is going to want 2 hives without MCs connecting them.
My suggestion is almost as old as NS itself, as I first remember seeing it back when I first came onlo the forums. This issue has come up over and over again and every time it's been raised there has been widespread support, but it's never been tried out. I say that in Beta 5 we give it a shot: <b>remove hive requirements for multiple chamber types.</b>
And the question that is always raised is "Wait, won't that make aliens too powerful?". Not nessessarily. An alien would only be able to evolve a number of evolutionary traits equal to the number of hives. Hence, a 1 hive skulk could take regen, or focus, or silence. A 2 hive skulk could take regen and focus, but not silence as well. A 3 hive skulk could take all 3. In addition, getting 3 of each chamber costs the alien team 90 res. I say if they invest that many resources, they should be able to reap the benefits, like the marine team does.
The problem with DMS is that whilst it's great for higher lifeforms, gorges and skulks miss out. There's a lot of talk now about skulks being too weak: the main reason being they're denied the evolutions that help them the most: cloaking, focus, silence, celerity and scent of fear. Sensory chambers are of tremendous help to alien teams, but they're not used because defense or movement has to be sacrificed for them.
Giving players the option to pick and chose opens up whole new areas of stratagy and makes the game far more diverse and interesting. Marines right now can pursue a whole range of varied tactics, ranging from shotgun rushes to phase gate seige bases to slash-and-burn electrification expansions even up to HA vs JPs. The marine side can do that because their tech tree is unchained and unconstrained.
In this same forum there's talk about putting the "fear" back into NS. I can truely say as a marine that the most frightened I've been in NS was in the early days of 2.0. Cloaked aliens that you could hear but not see coming closer, striking unseen from the shadows, my team running deperately through a tunnel shooting at shadows. Unchaining the alien tech tree would go a long way to putting the fear back.
Like I said above, this is not a new idea. It's been around for over a year at least. I really think it deserves a test, and I know from previous times when this idea has been raised that others think the same way. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> I could not ever agree more.
Good advice Marine01. Now get back to Discussions so I can go to sleep. <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif' /><!--endemo-->
EDIT: I've sent a request to Nemesis Zero. Now we play the waiting game....
obuhNot Quite Smart at NSJoin Date: 2003-03-31Member: 15072Members, Constellation
This is a very good idea.
I made a small spraypaint with the 'Unchain the chambers' picture. Copy the file tempdecal.wad in your nsp directory to use it. Feel free to make other images promoting this idea and spread the word !
Comments
(I liked that <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->)
Free the chambers from their bondage!
<img src='http://www.john-joyce.co.uk/pics/bus.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' />
But do try to stay on topic <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif' /><!--endemo-->
<!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' /><!--endemo-->
This would make it so killing the alien's 3rd hive does more than get rid of charge and water balloons (ok so getting rid of xeno and web is nice) since aliens are generally smart enough to build backup chambers any time a hive is going down.
Also gets rid of some of the pubbie griefing (dropping sense first without asking =\ )
This simple change could potentialy make ns 100000% more stratigic
there is not a single person here on the forums that doesnt see how much this change could dramaticaly improve the stratigic value of ns.
THis one amazing change solves early game rapage by marines. THIS IMproves the SKULK JUST HOW IVE ALWAYS WANTED AND HAVE BEEN COMPLAING FOR. It SOLVES the gorges getting raped early game problem. It solves the 1 person drops sense so everyone leaves and the person who dorps it gets banned problem.
there are no downsides to this idea. if this is implemented things can ONLY get better.
Actualy I just did a search of this forums and it looks like he has only ever made 4 posts in this forum <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/sad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Interesting idea. Payment per post. Hmm.
(bumpage)
Unchain the chambers!
I have invested a fwe nights thought into this and still can't see a downside. Possible half-downsides would be:
Explaining to NSPlayers that there is no longer *any* reason for patronising me with shouts of "omg s3ns3 1st choo n00b".
Acutally, I tihnk I would enjoy explaining that. <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif' /><!--endemo-->
What else.
Hmm.
New refinements in clan play would throw ladders around. ("Well, if we could have had done this this and this with these chambers then we may not have lost in this this and this match.")
Any others?
If not, let's get it in beta5. <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif' /><!--endemo-->
*edit2* <--- I put the image on my avatar now
we should all change our avatars as a peacefull sign of our wishes.
UNCHAIN THE CHAMBERS!!!!
Here's another idea I've seen floating around the forums in the past: the ability to mix upgrades for each chamber. For example, giving a skulk the ability to choose 2 carapace upgrades and 1 regen. Or 2 adrenaline upgrades and one celerity. Or 1 cloak, 1 carapace, 1 regen. We've already seen multiple upgrades in Combat and having a limited version of the Combat system in Classic would, in my opinion, not have too drastic of a balancing issue (since using multiple upgrades reduce the efficiency of each individual upgrade) and will bring a very different strategic atmosphere for Alien players.
Combining the above suggestion with the original posters' would not be too complicated either. You would just limited the amount of upgrades to 3 x (# of hives built). So at 1 hive you have at most 3 upgrades and at 3 hives you get all 9 options. Upgrades could be reduced to 1 res each (in order to penalize different ugprade paths) or stay at 2 res for 3 upgrades of the same kind.
Using both ideas in conjunction would really put the spark back in alien play and eliminate the existence of the "must have upgrade." It can also put some use into those upgrades that don't find their way into games under the current system (like redemption or silence).
Early game Aliens are far too weak!! <!--emo&::asrifle::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/asrifle.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='asrifle.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--emo&::skulk::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/skulk.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='skulk.gif' /><!--endemo--> THEY NEED BEEFYNESS, heh. <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Please devs! Put some pop back into Alien play and reply to these posts with your thoughts!! <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Thats the same idea I was having while I was reading this thread. =)
God, that rocks. Sorry Kylie, I've got to retire the cute gorge for now!
But my variation is
All chambers can be built at all times you get 3 "upgrades" per hive...
each one costs 1 res, but you only get 3 per hive..
Hive one you can get lvl 1 regen, lvl 2 carapace...
Lvl 2 celerity, level 1 regen
lvl 2 cloak, lvl 1 focus...
Whatever you want
You just have to evolve once per level for each upgrade you want...
Imagine fighting cloaked skulks.... celerity skulks, and carapace skulks all at once...
The main problem now is marines need only find out what the aliens chambers are and they have a counter all the time
Sensory..... Get Mt and lvl 1 armor
Defense.....upgrade rush
Motion..... what the hell were these aliens thinking.... rush heavy armor...(lol)
With this variation.. which is similar to some variations suggested above (and i have written this up in my own suggestion thread twice now) is that aliens get to keep thier INDEPENDENT nature.. getting whatever the hell they want... but are still tied down by teamwork in that someone needs to build the chambers... and in that they are still tied to the hives also (hivemind) in that they need 2-3 hives for sufficient upgrades for higher lifeforms...
Just my variation on what has already been suggested..
`Jason
focus really isnt used much unless you know you have a good team and can focus rush the marines before they get armor 1
cloaking is sort of a hit or miss thing, sure its fun for awhile but after awhile when peopel start shooting randomly at places and hallways its almost useless, devor and onos cloaking is still very funny tho =p
the DMS is a major one, mainly because on pub servers not everyone is good so when you dont have good players rines get to own you alot with either MDS or SDM.
i also played a game recently where aliens had the rines pined down in Biodome hive, and end up loseing becuase HA went though vents and killed the hives, they where also pined down for a good 40-50 mins there also, ive also seened that soem places are too easily defended by rines mainly because you cant get an onos into the area without it either 1 imposable or 2 the onos dies in 4 seconds of peeking its head though the area
SoF rocks as it is.
Unfortunatly we can't; looks like only forum mods can start one.
Unfortunatly we can't; looks like only forum mods can start one. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
*Prays for a Poll*
ITS HOT HERE
It would make NS so much more fun because there would be some diversity in it. Maybee I'd give up playing BF:V so much and start playing NS again if they put this in.
I vote for unchaining the chambers! (yea, I know this is not a democracy)
The fact of the matter is that DMS will never go away as long as the current system remains. No Onos, Fade or Lerk is going to trade regen for focus, and no alien team is going to want 2 hives without MCs connecting them.
My suggestion is almost as old as NS itself, as I first remember seeing it back when I first came onlo the forums. This issue has come up over and over again and every time it's been raised there has been widespread support, but it's never been tried out. I say that in Beta 5 we give it a shot: <b>remove hive requirements for multiple chamber types.</b>
And the question that is always raised is "Wait, won't that make aliens too powerful?". Not nessessarily. An alien would only be able to evolve a number of evolutionary traits equal to the number of hives. Hence, a 1 hive skulk could take regen, or focus, or silence. A 2 hive skulk could take regen and focus, but not silence as well. A 3 hive skulk could take all 3. In addition, getting 3 of each chamber costs the alien team 90 res. I say if they invest that many resources, they should be able to reap the benefits, like the marine team does.
The problem with DMS is that whilst it's great for higher lifeforms, gorges and skulks miss out. There's a lot of talk now about skulks being too weak: the main reason being they're denied the evolutions that help them the most: cloaking, focus, silence, celerity and scent of fear. Sensory chambers are of tremendous help to alien teams, but they're not used because defense or movement has to be sacrificed for them.
Giving players the option to pick and chose opens up whole new areas of stratagy and makes the game far more diverse and interesting. Marines right now can pursue a whole range of varied tactics, ranging from shotgun rushes to phase gate seige bases to slash-and-burn electrification expansions even up to HA vs JPs. The marine side can do that because their tech tree is unchained and unconstrained.
In this same forum there's talk about putting the "fear" back into NS. I can truely say as a marine that the most frightened I've been in NS was in the early days of 2.0. Cloaked aliens that you could hear but not see coming closer, striking unseen from the shadows, my team running deperately through a tunnel shooting at shadows. Unchaining the alien tech tree would go a long way to putting the fear back.
Like I said above, this is not a new idea. It's been around for over a year at least. I really think it deserves a test, and I know from previous times when this idea has been raised that others think the same way. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
I could not ever agree more.
This is perfect.
If you want a poll, simply pm Nemesis Zero and ask very politely - thats what I did to get my knockback poll.
EDIT: I've sent a request to Nemesis Zero. Now we play the waiting game....
I made a small spraypaint with the 'Unchain the chambers' picture. Copy the file tempdecal.wad in your nsp directory to use it. Feel free to make other images promoting this idea and spread the word !