face it, both the gamplay and user base is significantly diffrent, and both will never be able to be balanced (marine vs alien wise) while they are in the same game because of it.
Just deleting combat is not an option, first off people play it, and secondly the devs put time into creating it.
You also can't just go banning all plugins no matter how much you hate them because of the same two reasons above. (and yes i hate them too, i only play combat via lan on unmodified servers now)
So why not just be like all the other steam games, if you want to do something diffrent you click exit hit my games and select the diffrent gameplay. Heck i betcha there is less of a diffrence between cs and dod or tfc than there is between ns and co, and all 3 of those steam games are kept seperate?
urinalcakeCan't work a sound cardUnited StatesJoin Date: 2002-11-08Member: 7799Members
Yes, NS is in a poor state. Thats the point of this whole thread, its in a crappy state, so theres no REAL players to play anymore, no one to scrim because they're busy getting 5 minutes of fun with modded combat. :-/
<!--QuoteBegin-Sandstorm+Jun 9 2005, 02:48 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Sandstorm @ Jun 9 2005, 02:48 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-CommunistWithAGun+Jun 9 2005, 05:33 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (CommunistWithAGun @ Jun 9 2005, 05:33 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->...It is my sincere opinion that server mods should not be allowed to change the games balance in any way at all...<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Said like a true Communist. <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
I assume the real reason for this post was to say that the clan community is small because of these combat plugins. Here's my view on things:
The Developers create the game, giving rise the the Public players. The Public players give rise to the Clan players. The Clan players give feedback to the Developers, who make changes that attract more Public players. Later on, Plugins show up, but only take feedback from Public players. However, they rarely have major influence over the game.
In NS, the hierarchy appears like this: <!--c1--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>CODE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='CODE'><!--ec1--> Developer ↑ ↕ Clan Players ← Public Players ↔ Plugins <!--c2--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--ec2-->
In essence, the Developers are trying to please each group seperately. I'm not sure how this occured, but that's the only real difference between NS and most other games. The end result has been things like mp_tournamentmode, mp_blockscripts, and, of course, Combat. It's also produced a split in the community and made many people take more hardline positions.
The heavy predominance of plugins is more likely a result of a lack of Clan servers. In most games, a majority of heavy users are Clan players, so most of the servers are Clan servers. In NS, there are, apparently, a large number of heavy users who are Public players, which leads to an increase in Public servers. Increase the proportion of Clan players, and the number of Clan servers will also increase.
If you want to boost Clan players, you need to embrace Combat. Get the Developer to adjust Combat to make it more clan-friendly, and you'll increase your recruitment. Once your clan-base is more representative of all Public players, the Developer may, once again, focus on Clan player feedback. However, since I don't know what caused the rift in the first place, this may not actually fix the problem. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> QFT, <b>especially</b> the last paragraph. Hail Sandstorm!
CheeseLork on the ClorfJoin Date: 2003-12-15Member: 24396Members, Constellation
hmm im playing co_ sometimes when im searching for simple ownage...
Most of the time i join a specific co_ server that has the same players on it all the time.
the owners of this server have 3...
ednk I: ns only ednk II: co only ednk III: ns only
so there are many players who you ll fidn at ednk I and III at II too <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
so..if i am bored or searching for a short game..i join a server, evolve to lerk, get some kills, end the round and leave again. That is co_ for me...happens about 1 hour a month or even less...
Aaronvroom vroom der party startahJoin Date: 2002-11-05Member: 7020Members
I do agree that it would be useful for players to know what servers are adulterated with various mods (but it would probably have to be voluntary, as mods can change this info IIRC). The most annoying thing to me are DoD servers which destroy the whole atmosphere with asinane booming "UTRA-KILL!?!?!!?!!!! HUMILIATION!!!!*&@#" and beavis and butthead sounds blasting out of the sky and puking neon text all over my screen, making the game basically an arcade game.
But that said...some of these "impure" mods get into the game. Armory health was a feature of Voogru's mod, and that got added eventually. So they are not all crackpot ideas.
Just most of them.
And co is pretty much a goof anyway...so I'm not personally concerned if people do wacky things to it, as I only play it while waiting for more people to join so we can play NS.
The point I'm going to counter is a bit old and far back in the thread, but then a lot of the posts since it are pointless banter.
You say things to the effect of: "If you don't like how a server is, don't play there, no one is forcing you. Don't try to change how other people play, make your own server."
Well, that is really quite silly to say, as I can turn that right around... No one is forcing you to play NS, if you don't like how the game works, don't play it. Don't try to change and modify the game that other people enjoy. Make your own game.
That argument goes both ways, and it is actually completely valid in both respects. As much as someone shouldn't try to change other servers, why are all these servers changing flayra's game?
<!--QuoteBegin-"Sandstorm"+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> ("Sandstorm")</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->However, since I don't know what caused the rift in the first place, this may not actually fix the problem.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I have an idea why.
Generally, people who play NS start off as a casual player. Most people who start off playing a game aren't those who has a mindset to play in a clan right away (unless they already have a clan that moved to a different game).
So in the beginning, around 1.04, you have causal players playing NS:Classic that some of which go on to play competitively. So far, so good, but unfortunately, the game was too long in the competitive scene. Therefore, there was a good population of causal players, but a very low population of clan players. The devs saw the need to change. I think the change is too much, but that's my opinion...
So now you have 2.0 rolling around. Great for competitive players, and in my opinion horrible for causal players. Basically, you have the rushrushrush syndrome with everyone having to perform perfectly - which is great for clan players - but horrible for causal who want to relax playing the game instead of this 'Be all you can be right now: or we lose and it's your fault!' ideal. This cause a lot of the public players to drop out... those who can't afford to spend the time to group together and play competitively. If you were lucky in this era, you had a community who worked together and kept things running. But even then, the causal players population dropped a lot...
So 3.0beta rolls around. This is the introduction of combat, and a few extra things as an attempt to get more causal players back into the game. At this point, there's an increase of causal players due to combat: you can aliens vs. marine DM style! This appeals to the causal player group and those who don't have time to spend a full NS:classic game. However, this introduces a new problem: How do you get the causal players to become clan players? The process they have to go through is: they play combat, then have to play classic, then learn to play competitively in classic. Most got the first step, but there's only a minor few that achieve the next step.
Right now, there's really no bridge for causal players in combat to go and play in classic. Sure, it seems simple for them to just login to a classic server, but the learning and enjoyable factor at stake is very high. There are a few individuals who enjoy going from combat to classic, or lucky to have someone to teach them how to play classic. However, the majority causal players find it hard to go from 'fragfragfrag' combat to 'rush-rush-RT-perform-perfectly-even though you can't upgrade to shotty/hmg/gl unless comm gives you' classic. They rather say back in combat, where they control what marine weapons to get, or individually the multiple upgrades they get as alien.
Now 3.0final+ the devs seems to do major classic changes to try to bridge the gap between causal players playing combat to causal players playing classic. We see this, due to the free upgrades in aliens, and the +5 armor to marine. For now, the amount of tweaks the devs do would either close or increase the gap. I don't know on either case, and basically time will show what will happen in the near future.
Where to plugins come into this? I see the extralvl2 and lvl 50 plugins as an attempt to balance combat, or to add the 'silliness' factor in most cases. Most combat servers don't mind: they're only hosting causal players or people who just like to frag. They're not being serious when playing as a team, but rather as an individual.
To sum it up: NS 1.0 gave us a good public players, low clan players. NS 2.0 gave us a significant drop on public players, but higher clan players. NS 3.0beta gave us a dramatic shift of public players into combat, with about the same amount of clan players as before. However, those public players in combat have a huge bridge to cross to classic, then up to clan players. That bridge is hard to cross. NS 3.0final+ attempts to close this bridge.
It's easy for a team to each play individually, but it's hard for a group of individuals to play as a group. It is easy for a classic player to play a combat game, but it's hard for a combat player to play a classic game.
That's the state I see NS is in. What to do about it? I don't know.
Edited to make it clearer that 3.0beta and 3.0final+ are different groups.
<!--QuoteBegin-ubermensch+Jun 10 2005, 04:50 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (ubermensch @ Jun 10 2005, 04:50 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--><!--QuoteBegin-Scylla+Jun 10 2005, 04:35 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Scylla @ Jun 10 2005, 04:35 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Sorry but it’s up to you to change than. Server owners running Natural Selection servers are the backbone of the community. You don’t feel that comfortable with the current selection of servers for you? There’s a pretty easy solution. Get your own server and create an environment you and others like to play. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I just covered this idiotic way of thinking a page ago. Typically it got drowned down in a load of useless banter. I'll reiterate until you people stop using that moronic notion (it's up to you to change, start your own server then, bla bla). In short: the community as a whole is dying because of 'you people,' and the problem is you and nothing else.
<!--QuoteBegin-The Finch+Jun 10 2005, 12:01 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (The Finch @ Jun 10 2005, 12:01 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->If you want a classic server, pay for one. You can mock servers like nsarmslab all you like, but they're usually filled to capacity. Why would they implement a game "the way it's supposed to be" if it would just clear out their servers?
Just because you want to play classic sans mods doesn't mean others want to or should have to. Classic has plenty of problems, most notably its utter inability to scale to larger games. It's far too limited to ever be successful, it's on old technology and the learning curve is wrist-slittingly hard.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Oh how I utterly despise your kind, your logic, your choice of words and rhetorc; let's face it, I hate every molecule that constitutes your existance.
It doesn't take an IQ of 180 to realize concentric circles of influence expand from significant events - in this case, the implementation of counter strike style death match into a game whose core is rooted in real time strategy and teamwork, the absolute antithesis of what Natural Selection is trying to accomplish (teamwork, foresight, multi tasking, etc.).
<i>Why would they implement a game "the way it's supposed to be" if it would just clear out their servers?</i>
The only reason it clears out servers is because most of the NS community has been tainted with combat players - a distasteful group of similar minded people who are more at home in a 24/7 de_dust server than in any NS game.
A better question is why would they impliment a game that deters entirely from the main points of Natural Selection (strategy & teamwork), and continue to foster a parasitic crowd (combat players) that is destroying the community from within?
You prepose that NS classic fans put up more NS classic servers, and this would lead to a solution? The only solution is to purify the community so that only players who like the game "the way it's supposed to be played" are left.
<i>Classic has plenty of problems, most notably its utter inability to scale to larger games. It's far too limited to ever be successful, it's on old technology and the learning curve is wrist-slittingly hard.</i>
See what we have here? Someone who doesn't even consider playing classic, let alone know how to; and they want to have an opinion on how the game develops and the direction it heads?! BS. You are internet riff-raff. The scum of the online ecosystem that no one really wants moving into their communities (see the politically incorrect analogy I'm drawing?), and when everyone gets lenient and let them in, they erode it from its core.
THIS is what combat has brought to our beloved little enclave. This is what has wattered down the essence of not only the game, but the <b>quality of players</b>, the most important aspect of an online game community. This is what sickens those of us who are true NSPlayers, and who couldn't be more contented had combat been eliminated in the last patch.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> If you're representative of the NS community, it's no wonder it's a dying game. You're a giant wang. I've been playing since release. No doubt you remember when combat wasn't an option. I certainly do. People yelling at new commanders, people yelling about a gorge for dropping "the wrong chamber," and large servers where marines steamrolled the aliens. Ooh, I really want to go back to that.
Your beloved little community is gone. Nobody cares that you're a bitter little man, lamenting the loss of a game that never really brought in new players. Modded combat is fun for what it is. Why don't you use the 1337 competitive scene to draw new players to classic? Oh, that's right. They all left and NS isn't newb friendly enough to get replacements.
So, you should probably go back to sitting in your empty classic server, then cutting yourself in sorrow.
The_CheatIt's a The Cheat!Join Date: 2003-11-19Member: 23191Members, Constellation
That's a good breakdown, Theslan, but you left out a very important part: Combat has been out for months longer than the classic changes have that have "tried to bring classic players back." Combat has had ample time to infest the community with those CS-minded players who want nothing but deathmatch. The classic changes you mention from 3.0 are hardly 2 months old, if even.
<!--QuoteBegin-The Cheat+Jun 10 2005, 11:50 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (The Cheat @ Jun 10 2005, 11:50 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> That's a good breakdown, Theslan, but you left out a very important part: Combat has been out for months longer than the classic changes have that have "tried to bring classic players back." Combat has had ample time to infest the community with those CS-minded players who want nothing but deathmatch. The classic changes you mention from 3.0 are hardly 2 months old, if even. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Sry, when I meant 3.0, I meant to include a very small part of 3.0 final, and basically the whole 3.0beta. The classic changes I mention for 3.0 was to lump it to together at one go.
In hindsight, you could break it up to two groups, making 3.0beta as one, with the parts I mention above. The 3.0 final is the other group, which the devs does try to get classic more appealing again and is something I haven't thought too much about.
I'm going to edit the post above to make things a bit more clearer.
Here's some suggestions for making combat more classic-like: 1. Replace Levels/EXP with RFK 2. Automate Tech that would normally be researched by Commander or built by a Gorge (not controlled by the individual) 3. Players lose Weapons/Lifeforms when they die
I seriously think Combat went in the wrong direction as a training aid for newbies. I mean, getting your weapon or lifeform back when you die is fine, if you're a 2 year old. <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
A Boojum Snark: Flayra allows server-side plugins. That was stated by Nemesis Zero <a href='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=87488&st=30&#' target='_blank'>here</a>.
Depot: That's only the servers I ping <50ms to, have at least 8 players, and aren't passworded. I don't get <50ms pings to servers in Florida, since I'm in Texas. Perhaps Texas has an unusually large number of Natural Selection servers...
<!--QuoteBegin-Sandstorm+Jun 10 2005, 10:56 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Sandstorm @ Jun 10 2005, 10:56 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> A Boojum Snark: Flayra allows server-side plugins. That was stated by Nemesis Zero <a href='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=87488&st=30&#' target='_blank'>here</a>. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> I'm not saying they aren't or shouldn't be allowed. I'm just saying it's silly for anyone to argue against people telling them not to try changing how others play, when in fact, they have changed the game themselves.
The people that come here and write dramatic essays about the scum and trechery of combat players are the same ones that hit the eject commander buttons first.
<!--QuoteBegin-Sandstorm+Jun 10 2005, 12:56 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Sandstorm @ Jun 10 2005, 12:56 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Depot: That's only the servers I ping <50ms to, have at least 8 players, and aren't passworded. I don't get <50ms pings to servers in Florida, since I'm in Texas. Perhaps Texas has an unusually large number of Natural Selection servers... <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> In that case: 67.18.78.2:27016 LeetServers.com NS 3.04 (in Texas). This is my secondary 100% plain vanilla server and is very stable.
You know....I think it's high time we had a poll about this. It would help put this argument to rest.
Q: Do you: - Play Classic only, and wish Combat were removed from NS - Play Classic and/or Combat, and wish modded NS servers disappeared - Play Classic and/or Combat, but wished the two game modes were separated (meaning, balanced individually) - Play only Combat, and wish Classic were simplified/balanced better - Play everything equally, and really don't care what game type/mods you play
Either the devs won't like what they see, or the hardcore fans of NS won't like what they see, but this needs to be done.
Eventually, someone will figure out how to make competitive Combat work. If the Classic Clan community continues to reject Combat at that point, those that want competitive Combat will just give the Classic Clan community the middle finger and form their own clans and leagues. Spewing hatred onto this forum for these people isn't helping your cause any, either. <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
What's amusing is that the original complaint was not that CO was terrible and should die a horrible death, I thought the topic starter was complaining that the plugins (such as extralevels) that rape the game to the point where it doesn't even resemble the original are terrible. He's kind of right too, while people may enjoy such plugins they might as well be playing another game. Of course, there isn't a whole lot you can do about it.
I'd have to vote for #3 (NS and Combat are balanced seperately).
And I want people to stop insulting others because of their preferences of gametype. Don't call someone a "CS nub" or an "elitist". Try to actually contribute to the topic rather than flame someone. I'm personally against Combat in its current form, and I hope it's made a little more like NS, while still letting people join and shoot.
Okay, I've played NS since release. Pubbed till late 2.0. Vet-tested 3.0 till vets were removed. Clanned from late 2.0 till last june, gave up out of boredom, am back again cleaning up my game a bit and getting into clans again.
Now, when I left, Co was popular and slowly overtaking NS. I can deal with this thanks to #nspickup, scrimming, etc.
Here is my gripe. Why are server admins allowed to run vomit-inducing extra levels, 32 man combat games, with upgrades that literally bend the game over and shove a jumbo cactus dildo up its rear end.
I cant decide whats worse, that people actually ENJOY a counter-strike pseudo clone with aliens or the people who commited this proverbial abortion in the first place. It is exceedingly pathetic that servers empty quickly after an NS map is loaded, or they say exactly this "RANDOMPUBBER: /menu"
"RANDOMPUBBER: What? no menu? This server sucks!" *leaves*
Seriously, what the hell is up with this garbage. It is my sincere opinion that server mods should not be allowed to change the games balance in any way at all. Combat was meant for, and is balanced for 4v4 or 5v5 TOPS. 16v16 killfests are a spit in the face to what Natural-selection WAS. It USED to be a game that required not only the ability to aim, move, and adjust, but to think, strategize, and above all, adapt. Thanks. Also a pre-emptive pride obliterating ****-slap: Don't tell me that this game was only decided to be balanced via clan play because I very vividly remember balance for ALL being discussed. So get off your eliteist highhorse pubbers (you know who you are.)<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> What I got out of this is that CWAG wanted the Developers to force other players to play the way he wants to. In other words, he's upset that the Developers aren't giving Clan players all the perks. After all, they know what's best for the community. <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Early on, the Veterans group was a representation of Clan players. I assume that 2.x was based heavily on this group's suggestions, especially regarding balance. However, for some reason, the Developers slowly shifted towards other groups, particularly Constellation members, who are a mix of Clan and Public players. It might have had something to do with the opening up of the Veterans group, and it eventually dissolving.
Of course, taking feedback from seperate groups is going to result in seperate games. At this point, the Clan players and the Public players are so far apart that it would be impossible for the Developers to please them both with a single gamemode. However, it's the Clan players who are complaining here, not the Public players, nor the Developers.
I know there are Clan players who are adapting to the situation. However, I have no idea what's going on with ones calling all the Public players an infestation, plague, and a disease, and the things they enjoy garbage and trash. Honestly, what are these people thinking? <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin-Sky+Jun 10 2005, 02:06 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Sky @ Jun 10 2005, 02:06 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> You know....I think it's high time we had a poll about this. It would help put this argument to rest.
Q: Do you: - Play Classic only, and wish Combat were removed from NS - Play Classic and/or Combat, and wish modded NS servers disappeared - Play Classic and/or Combat, but wished the two game modes were separated (meaning, balanced individually) - Play only Combat, and wish Classic were simplified/balanced better - Play everything equally, and really don't care what game type/mods you play
Either the devs won't like what they see, or the hardcore fans of NS won't like what they see, but this needs to be done. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> ... and the same 2 or 3 dozen forum users will vote in this poll, or maybe even 4 dozen.
<!--QuoteBegin-Sandstorm+Jun 10 2005, 02:47 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Sandstorm @ Jun 10 2005, 02:47 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Eventually, someone will figure out how to make competitive Combat work. If the Classic Clan community continues to reject Combat at that point, those that want competitive Combat will just give the Classic Clan community the middle finger and form their own clans and leagues. Spewing hatred onto this forum for these people isn't helping your cause any, either. <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--><!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Competitive combat is a different story. I have in my possession a Metamod plugin designed for competitive 4v4 play. Mp_tournamentmode must be enabled and <ul><li>Aliens are only allowed 1 upgrade per chamber.</li><li>2nd and 3rd hive abilities will cost 2 points each.</li><li>Higher lifeforms are limited to 2 of a possible 3: lerk and fade, lerk and onos, fade and onos.</li></ul>Working on getting this playtested atm. It looks very promising for league play.
Ugh. I'm struggling with my good inner self, which knows that it would be exceedingly stupid to post in this thread, which has already headed down the long and winding path of the dark side.
That path seems to involve CWAG getting himself banned again, which doesn't need to happen.
The course that Flay's baby is wading through has reached a few tough spots. But you know what? It's not the game that's broken, it's the players, and there's no solution in sight. I can speak for some of the pubbers here. Not all of us are ravenous morons with sloppy typing and frothing insults dribbling from our fingers. We're just as irritated with the moron club as everyone else is. Have you ever seen a marine in the command seat without a clan tag, nearly breaking his mind while struggling to keep a clueless marine team together through coercion? I've seen a lot of them, and I've been that fool sometimes. After I log out of the chair and get eaten at the end of those games, I crawl into a fetal position and rock slowly back and forth, straining to recollect the scattered shards of my sanity.
These people that don't care to follow orders? They're the enemy. You know, this community would be a lot less divided if we made stupid marines and aliens our common enemy in a righteous crusade blinded by fury. As long as we made the distinction between the true idiots and those who have hope for salvation, it would work out nicely.
<!--QuoteBegin-Depot+Jun 10 2005, 05:05 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Depot @ Jun 10 2005, 05:05 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Sky+Jun 10 2005, 02:06 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Sky @ Jun 10 2005, 02:06 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> You know....I think it's high time we had a poll about this. It would help put this argument to rest.
Q: Do you: - Play Classic only, and wish Combat were removed from NS - Play Classic and/or Combat, and wish modded NS servers disappeared - Play Classic and/or Combat, but wished the two game modes were separated (meaning, balanced individually) - Play only Combat, and wish Classic were simplified/balanced better - Play everything equally, and really don't care what game type/mods you play
Either the devs won't like what they see, or the hardcore fans of NS won't like what they see, but this needs to be done. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> ... and the same 2 or 3 dozen forum users will vote in this poll, or maybe even 4 dozen.
Scientific .... ... .. . NOT! <!--emo&:0--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wow.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wow.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> 1) 883 people voted in the NS:S poll. Just a few more than a couple dozen. 2) The people who would vote in a poll on these forums ARE the people the devs should be listening to. I've already said this: the vast majority of pubbers who don't come here couldn't give a damn about the balance of the game, they'll play regardless because it's free, and move on. The people here, they don't do that. 3) And YOUR statistics are so much more scientific. I've already said, you can't cite the number of downloads as an idicator of popularity. They dont represent individual downloads, they are the server admins choice (no vote from the players), AND you're not taking into consideration the possibility that a bunch of the people who downloaded the mod hated it, and wiped it from their server.
<!--QuoteBegin-Sky+Jun 10 2005, 07:37 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Sky @ Jun 10 2005, 07:37 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--><!--QuoteBegin-Depot+Jun 10 2005, 05:05 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Depot @ Jun 10 2005, 05:05 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Sky+Jun 10 2005, 02:06 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Sky @ Jun 10 2005, 02:06 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> You know....I think it's high time we had a poll about this. It would help put this argument to rest.
Q: Do you: - Play Classic only, and wish Combat were removed from NS - Play Classic and/or Combat, and wish modded NS servers disappeared - Play Classic and/or Combat, but wished the two game modes were separated (meaning, balanced individually) - Play only Combat, and wish Classic were simplified/balanced better - Play everything equally, and really don't care what game type/mods you play
Either the devs won't like what they see, or the hardcore fans of NS won't like what they see, but this needs to be done. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> ... and the same 2 or 3 dozen forum users will vote in this poll, or maybe even 4 dozen.
Scientific .... ... .. . NOT! <!--emo&:0--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wow.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wow.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> 1) 883 people voted in the NS:S poll. Just a few more than a couple dozen. 2) The people who would vote in a poll on these forums ARE the people the devs should be listening to. I've already said this: the vast majority of pubbers who don't come here couldn't give a damn about the balance of the game, they'll play regardless because it's free, and move on. The people here, they don't do that. 3) And YOUR statistics are so much more scientific. I've already said, you can't cite the number of downloads as an idicator of popularity. They dont represent individual downloads, they are the server admins choice (no vote from the players), AND you're not taking into consideration the possibility that a bunch of the people who downloaded the mod hated it, and wiped it from their server.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> 1) Please don't flatter yourself thinkiing 10% of them would vote on what you proposed. You're not Flayra, and the poll doesn't concern source.
2) There are many pubbers of ns that just don't care for forums. At all.
3) My stats showing the number of downloads for the mentioned plugins goes hand in hand with the high number of servers running said mods. Re-read CWAG's thread - that's his beef.
<!--QuoteBegin-Depot+Jun 10 2005, 10:10 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Depot @ Jun 10 2005, 10:10 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Sandstorm+Jun 10 2005, 02:47 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Sandstorm @ Jun 10 2005, 02:47 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Eventually, someone will figure out how to make competitive Combat work. If the Classic Clan community continues to reject Combat at that point, those that want competitive Combat will just give the Classic Clan community the middle finger and form their own clans and leagues. Spewing hatred onto this forum for these people isn't helping your cause any, either. <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--><!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Competitive combat is a different story. I have in my possession a Metamod plugin designed for competitive 4v4 play. Mp_tournamentmode must be enabled and <ul><li>Aliens are only allowed 1 upgrade per chamber.</li><li>2nd and 3rd hive abilities will cost 2 points each.</li><li>Higher lifeforms are limited to 2 of a possible 3: lerk and fade, lerk and onos, fade and onos.</li></ul>Working on getting this playtested atm. It looks very promising for league play. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> This is exactly what lumps looking for! =]
Comments
why not just make it two seperate games???
face it, both the gamplay and user base is significantly diffrent, and both will never be able to be balanced (marine vs alien wise) while they are in the same game because of it.
Just deleting combat is not an option, first off people play it, and secondly the devs put time into creating it.
You also can't just go banning all plugins no matter how much you hate them because of the same two reasons above. (and yes i hate them too, i only play combat via lan on unmodified servers now)
So why not just be like all the other steam games, if you want to do something diffrent you click exit hit my games and select the diffrent gameplay. Heck i betcha there is less of a diffrence between cs and dod or tfc than there is between ns and co, and all 3 of those steam games are kept seperate?
Agreed Duo, so long ago yet so memorable.
Said like a true Communist. <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
I assume the real reason for this post was to say that the clan community is small because of these combat plugins. Here's my view on things:
There's a specific hierarchy to all FPS games:
<!--c1--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>CODE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='CODE'><!--ec1-->
Developer → Public Players ↔ Plugins
↑ ↓
Clan Players
<!--c2--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--ec2-->
The Developers create the game, giving rise the the Public players. The Public players give rise to the Clan players. The Clan players give feedback to the Developers, who make changes that attract more Public players. Later on, Plugins show up, but only take feedback from Public players. However, they rarely have major influence over the game.
In NS, the hierarchy appears like this:
<!--c1--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>CODE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='CODE'><!--ec1-->
Developer
↑ ↕
Clan Players ← Public Players ↔ Plugins
<!--c2--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--ec2-->
In essence, the Developers are trying to please each group seperately. I'm not sure how this occured, but that's the only real difference between NS and most other games. The end result has been things like mp_tournamentmode, mp_blockscripts, and, of course, Combat. It's also produced a split in the community and made many people take more hardline positions.
The heavy predominance of plugins is more likely a result of a lack of Clan servers. In most games, a majority of heavy users are Clan players, so most of the servers are Clan servers. In NS, there are, apparently, a large number of heavy users who are Public players, which leads to an increase in Public servers. Increase the proportion of Clan players, and the number of Clan servers will also increase.
If you want to boost Clan players, you need to embrace Combat. Get the Developer to adjust Combat to make it more clan-friendly, and you'll increase your recruitment. Once your clan-base is more representative of all Public players, the Developer may, once again, focus on Clan player feedback. However, since I don't know what caused the rift in the first place, this may not actually fix the problem. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
QFT, <b>especially</b> the last paragraph. Hail Sandstorm!
Most of the time i join a specific co_ server that has the same players on it all the time.
the owners of this server have 3...
ednk I: ns only
ednk II: co only
ednk III: ns only
so there are many players who you ll fidn at ednk I and III at II too <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
so..if i am bored or searching for a short game..i join a server, evolve to lerk, get some kills, end the round and leave again. That is co_ for me...happens about 1 hour a month or even less...
But that said...some of these "impure" mods get into the game. Armory health was a feature of Voogru's mod, and that got added eventually. So they are not all crackpot ideas.
Just most of them.
And co is pretty much a goof anyway...so I'm not personally concerned if people do wacky things to it, as I only play it while waiting for more people to join so we can play NS.
You say things to the effect of: "If you don't like how a server is, don't play there, no one is forcing you. Don't try to change how other people play, make your own server."
Well, that is really quite silly to say, as I can turn that right around...
No one is forcing you to play NS, if you don't like how the game works, don't play it. Don't try to change and modify the game that other people enjoy. Make your own game.
That argument goes both ways, and it is actually completely valid in both respects. As much as someone shouldn't try to change other servers, why are all these servers changing flayra's game?
I have an idea why.
Generally, people who play NS start off as a casual player. Most people who start off playing a game aren't those who has a mindset to play in a clan right away (unless they already have a clan that moved to a different game).
So in the beginning, around 1.04, you have causal players playing NS:Classic that some of which go on to play competitively. So far, so good, but unfortunately, the game was too long in the competitive scene. Therefore, there was a good population of causal players, but a very low population of clan players. The devs saw the need to change. I think the change is too much, but that's my opinion...
So now you have 2.0 rolling around. Great for competitive players, and in my opinion horrible for causal players. Basically, you have the rushrushrush syndrome with everyone having to perform perfectly - which is great for clan players - but horrible for causal who want to relax playing the game instead of this 'Be all you can be right now: or we lose and it's your fault!' ideal. This cause a lot of the public players to drop out... those who can't afford to spend the time to group together and play competitively. If you were lucky in this era, you had a community who worked together and kept things running. But even then, the causal players population dropped a lot...
So 3.0beta rolls around. This is the introduction of combat, and a few extra things as an attempt to get more causal players back into the game. At this point, there's an increase of causal players due to combat: you can aliens vs. marine DM style! This appeals to the causal player group and those who don't have time to spend a full NS:classic game. However, this introduces a new problem: How do you get the causal players to become clan players? The process they have to go through is: they play combat, then have to play classic, then learn to play competitively in classic. Most got the first step, but there's only a minor few that achieve the next step.
Right now, there's really no bridge for causal players in combat to go and play in classic. Sure, it seems simple for them to just login to a classic server, but the learning and enjoyable factor at stake is very high. There are a few individuals who enjoy going from combat to classic, or lucky to have someone to teach them how to play classic. However, the majority causal players find it hard to go from 'fragfragfrag' combat to 'rush-rush-RT-perform-perfectly-even though you can't upgrade to shotty/hmg/gl unless comm gives you' classic. They rather say back in combat, where they control what marine weapons to get, or individually the multiple upgrades they get as alien.
Now 3.0final+ the devs seems to do major classic changes to try to bridge the gap between causal players playing combat to causal players playing classic. We see this, due to the free upgrades in aliens, and the +5 armor to marine. For now, the amount of tweaks the devs do would either close or increase the gap. I don't know on either case, and basically time will show what will happen in the near future.
Where to plugins come into this? I see the extralvl2 and lvl 50 plugins as an attempt to balance combat, or to add the 'silliness' factor in most cases. Most combat servers don't mind: they're only hosting causal players or people who just like to frag. They're not being serious when playing as a team, but rather as an individual.
To sum it up:
NS 1.0 gave us a good public players, low clan players.
NS 2.0 gave us a significant drop on public players, but higher clan players.
NS 3.0beta gave us a dramatic shift of public players into combat, with about the same amount of clan players as before. However, those public players in combat have a huge bridge to cross to classic, then up to clan players. That bridge is hard to cross.
NS 3.0final+ attempts to close this bridge.
It's easy for a team to each play individually, but it's hard for a group of individuals to play as a group. It is easy for a classic player to play a combat game, but it's hard for a combat player to play a classic game.
That's the state I see NS is in. What to do about it? I don't know.
Edited to make it clearer that 3.0beta and 3.0final+ are different groups.
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I just covered this idiotic way of thinking a page ago. Typically it got drowned down in a load of useless banter. I'll reiterate until you people stop using that moronic notion (it's up to you to change, start your own server then, bla bla). In short: the community as a whole is dying because of 'you people,' and the problem is you and nothing else.
<!--QuoteBegin-The Finch+Jun 10 2005, 12:01 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (The Finch @ Jun 10 2005, 12:01 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->If you want a classic server, pay for one. You can mock servers like nsarmslab all you like, but they're usually filled to capacity. Why would they implement a game "the way it's supposed to be" if it would just clear out their servers?
Just because you want to play classic sans mods doesn't mean others want to or should have to. Classic has plenty of problems, most notably its utter inability to scale to larger games. It's far too limited to ever be successful, it's on old technology and the learning curve is wrist-slittingly hard.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Oh how I utterly despise your kind, your logic, your choice of words and rhetorc; let's face it, I hate every molecule that constitutes your existance.
It doesn't take an IQ of 180 to realize concentric circles of influence expand from significant events - in this case, the implementation of counter strike style death match into a game whose core is rooted in real time strategy and teamwork, the absolute antithesis of what Natural Selection is trying to accomplish (teamwork, foresight, multi tasking, etc.).
<i>Why would they implement a game "the way it's supposed to be" if it would just clear out their servers?</i>
The only reason it clears out servers is because most of the NS community has been tainted with combat players - a distasteful group of similar minded people who are more at home in a 24/7 de_dust server than in any NS game.
A better question is why would they impliment a game that deters entirely from the main points of Natural Selection (strategy & teamwork), and continue to foster a parasitic crowd (combat players) that is destroying the community from within?
You prepose that NS classic fans put up more NS classic servers, and this would lead to a solution? The only solution is to purify the community so that only players who like the game "the way it's supposed to be played" are left.
<i>Classic has plenty of problems, most notably its utter inability to scale to larger games. It's far too limited to ever be successful, it's on old technology and the learning curve is wrist-slittingly hard.</i>
See what we have here? Someone who doesn't even consider playing classic, let alone know how to; and they want to have an opinion on how the game develops and the direction it heads?! BS. You are internet riff-raff. The scum of the online ecosystem that no one really wants moving into their communities (see the politically incorrect analogy I'm drawing?), and when everyone gets lenient and let them in, they erode it from its core.
THIS is what combat has brought to our beloved little enclave. This is what has wattered down the essence of not only the game, but the <b>quality of players</b>, the most important aspect of an online game community. This is what sickens those of us who are true NSPlayers, and who couldn't be more contented had combat been eliminated in the last patch.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
If you're representative of the NS community, it's no wonder it's a dying game. You're a giant wang. I've been playing since release. No doubt you remember when combat wasn't an option. I certainly do. People yelling at new commanders, people yelling about a gorge for dropping "the wrong chamber," and large servers where marines steamrolled the aliens. Ooh, I really want to go back to that.
Your beloved little community is gone. Nobody cares that you're a bitter little man, lamenting the loss of a game that never really brought in new players. Modded combat is fun for what it is. Why don't you use the 1337 competitive scene to draw new players to classic? Oh, that's right. They all left and NS isn't newb friendly enough to get replacements.
So, you should probably go back to sitting in your empty classic server, then cutting yourself in sorrow.
Sry, when I meant 3.0, I meant to include a very small part of 3.0 final, and basically the whole 3.0beta. The classic changes I mention for 3.0 was to lump it to together at one go.
In hindsight, you could break it up to two groups, making 3.0beta as one, with the parts I mention above. The 3.0 final is the other group, which the devs does try to get classic more appealing again and is something I haven't thought too much about.
I'm going to edit the post above to make things a bit more clearer.
1. Replace Levels/EXP with RFK
2. Automate Tech that would normally be researched by Commander or built by a Gorge (not controlled by the individual)
3. Players lose Weapons/Lifeforms when they die
I seriously think Combat went in the wrong direction as a training aid for newbies. I mean, getting your weapon or lifeform back when you die is fine, if you're a 2 year old. <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
A Boojum Snark:
Flayra allows server-side plugins. That was stated by Nemesis Zero <a href='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=87488&st=30&#' target='_blank'>here</a>.
Depot:
That's only the servers I ping <50ms to, have at least 8 players, and aren't passworded. I don't get <50ms pings to servers in Florida, since I'm in Texas. Perhaps Texas has an unusually large number of Natural Selection servers...
Flayra allows server-side plugins. That was stated by Nemesis Zero <a href='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=87488&st=30&#' target='_blank'>here</a>. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
I'm not saying they aren't or shouldn't be allowed. I'm just saying it's silly for anyone to argue against people telling them not to try changing how others play, when in fact, they have changed the game themselves.
That's only the servers I ping <50ms to, have at least 8 players, and aren't passworded. I don't get <50ms pings to servers in Florida, since I'm in Texas. Perhaps Texas has an unusually large number of Natural Selection servers... <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
In that case: 67.18.78.2:27016 LeetServers.com NS 3.04 (in Texas).
This is my secondary 100% plain vanilla server and is very stable.
Q: Do you:
- Play Classic only, and wish Combat were removed from NS
- Play Classic and/or Combat, and wish modded NS servers disappeared
- Play Classic and/or Combat, but wished the two game modes were separated (meaning, balanced individually)
- Play only Combat, and wish Classic were simplified/balanced better
- Play everything equally, and really don't care what game type/mods you play
Either the devs won't like what they see, or the hardcore fans of NS won't like what they see, but this needs to be done.
edit- oops, or an admin make the poll...
And I want people to stop insulting others because of their preferences of gametype. Don't call someone a "CS nub" or an "elitist". Try to actually contribute to the topic rather than flame someone. I'm personally against Combat in its current form, and I hope it's made a little more like NS, while still letting people join and shoot.
Okay, I've played NS since release. Pubbed till late 2.0. Vet-tested 3.0 till vets were removed. Clanned from late 2.0 till last june, gave up out of boredom, am back again cleaning up my game a bit and getting into clans again.
Now, when I left, Co was popular and slowly overtaking NS. I can deal with this thanks to #nspickup, scrimming, etc.
Here is my gripe. Why are server admins allowed to run vomit-inducing extra levels, 32 man combat games, with upgrades that literally bend the game over and shove a jumbo cactus dildo up its rear end.
I cant decide whats worse, that people actually ENJOY a counter-strike pseudo clone with aliens or the people who commited this proverbial abortion in the first place. It is exceedingly pathetic that servers empty quickly after an NS map is loaded, or they say exactly this "RANDOMPUBBER: /menu"
"RANDOMPUBBER: What? no menu? This server sucks!"
*leaves*
Seriously, what the hell is up with this garbage. It is my sincere opinion that server mods should not be allowed to change the games balance in any way at all. Combat was meant for, and is balanced for 4v4 or 5v5 TOPS. 16v16 killfests are a spit in the face to what Natural-selection WAS. It USED to be a game that required not only the ability to aim, move, and adjust, but to think, strategize, and above all, adapt. Thanks. Also a pre-emptive pride obliterating ****-slap: Don't tell me that this game was only decided to be balanced via clan play because I very vividly remember balance for ALL being discussed. So get off your eliteist highhorse pubbers (you know who you are.)<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
What I got out of this is that CWAG wanted the Developers to force other players to play the way he wants to. In other words, he's upset that the Developers aren't giving Clan players all the perks. After all, they know what's best for the community. <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Early on, the Veterans group was a representation of Clan players. I assume that 2.x was based heavily on this group's suggestions, especially regarding balance. However, for some reason, the Developers slowly shifted towards other groups, particularly Constellation members, who are a mix of Clan and Public players. It might have had something to do with the opening up of the Veterans group, and it eventually dissolving.
Of course, taking feedback from seperate groups is going to result in seperate games. At this point, the Clan players and the Public players are so far apart that it would be impossible for the Developers to please them both with a single gamemode. However, it's the Clan players who are complaining here, not the Public players, nor the Developers.
I know there are Clan players who are adapting to the situation. However, I have no idea what's going on with ones calling all the Public players an infestation, plague, and a disease, and the things they enjoy garbage and trash. Honestly, what are these people thinking? <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Q: Do you:
- Play Classic only, and wish Combat were removed from NS
- Play Classic and/or Combat, and wish modded NS servers disappeared
- Play Classic and/or Combat, but wished the two game modes were separated (meaning, balanced individually)
- Play only Combat, and wish Classic were simplified/balanced better
- Play everything equally, and really don't care what game type/mods you play
Either the devs won't like what they see, or the hardcore fans of NS won't like what they see, but this needs to be done. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
... and the same 2 or 3 dozen forum users will vote in this poll, or maybe even 4 dozen.
Scientific .... ... .. . NOT! <!--emo&:0--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wow.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wow.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Competitive combat is a different story. I have in my possession a Metamod plugin designed for competitive 4v4 play. Mp_tournamentmode must be enabled and <ul><li>Aliens are only allowed 1 upgrade per chamber.</li><li>2nd and 3rd hive abilities will cost 2 points each.</li><li>Higher lifeforms are limited to 2 of a possible 3: lerk and fade, lerk and onos, fade and onos.</li></ul>Working on getting this playtested atm. It looks very promising for league play.
That path seems to involve CWAG getting himself banned again, which doesn't need to happen.
The course that Flay's baby is wading through has reached a few tough spots. But you know what? It's not the game that's broken, it's the players, and there's no solution in sight. I can speak for some of the pubbers here. Not all of us are ravenous morons with sloppy typing and frothing insults dribbling from our fingers. We're just as irritated with the moron club as everyone else is. Have you ever seen a marine in the command seat without a clan tag, nearly breaking his mind while struggling to keep a clueless marine team together through coercion? I've seen a lot of them, and I've been that fool sometimes. After I log out of the chair and get eaten at the end of those games, I crawl into a fetal position and rock slowly back and forth, straining to recollect the scattered shards of my sanity.
These people that don't care to follow orders? They're the enemy. You know, this community would be a lot less divided if we made stupid marines and aliens our common enemy in a righteous crusade blinded by fury. As long as we made the distinction between the true idiots and those who have hope for salvation, it would work out nicely.
Q: Do you:
- Play Classic only, and wish Combat were removed from NS
- Play Classic and/or Combat, and wish modded NS servers disappeared
- Play Classic and/or Combat, but wished the two game modes were separated (meaning, balanced individually)
- Play only Combat, and wish Classic were simplified/balanced better
- Play everything equally, and really don't care what game type/mods you play
Either the devs won't like what they see, or the hardcore fans of NS won't like what they see, but this needs to be done. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
... and the same 2 or 3 dozen forum users will vote in this poll, or maybe even 4 dozen.
Scientific .... ... .. . NOT! <!--emo&:0--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wow.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wow.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
1) 883 people voted in the NS:S poll. Just a few more than a couple dozen.
2) The people who would vote in a poll on these forums ARE the people the devs should be listening to. I've already said this: the vast majority of pubbers who don't come here couldn't give a damn about the balance of the game, they'll play regardless because it's free, and move on. The people here, they don't do that.
3) And YOUR statistics are so much more scientific. I've already said, you can't cite the number of downloads as an idicator of popularity. They dont represent individual downloads, they are the server admins choice (no vote from the players), AND you're not taking into consideration the possibility that a bunch of the people who downloaded the mod hated it, and wiped it from their server.
Q: Do you:
- Play Classic only, and wish Combat were removed from NS
- Play Classic and/or Combat, and wish modded NS servers disappeared
- Play Classic and/or Combat, but wished the two game modes were separated (meaning, balanced individually)
- Play only Combat, and wish Classic were simplified/balanced better
- Play everything equally, and really don't care what game type/mods you play
Either the devs won't like what they see, or the hardcore fans of NS won't like what they see, but this needs to be done. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
... and the same 2 or 3 dozen forum users will vote in this poll, or maybe even 4 dozen.
Scientific .... ... .. . NOT! <!--emo&:0--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wow.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wow.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
1) 883 people voted in the NS:S poll. Just a few more than a couple dozen.
2) The people who would vote in a poll on these forums ARE the people the devs should be listening to. I've already said this: the vast majority of pubbers who don't come here couldn't give a damn about the balance of the game, they'll play regardless because it's free, and move on. The people here, they don't do that.
3) And YOUR statistics are so much more scientific. I've already said, you can't cite the number of downloads as an idicator of popularity. They dont represent individual downloads, they are the server admins choice (no vote from the players), AND you're not taking into consideration the possibility that a bunch of the people who downloaded the mod hated it, and wiped it from their server.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
1) Please don't flatter yourself thinkiing 10% of them would vote on what you proposed. You're not Flayra, and the poll doesn't concern source.
2) There are many pubbers of ns that just don't care for forums. At all.
3) My stats showing the number of downloads for the mentioned plugins goes hand in hand with the high number of servers running said mods. Re-read CWAG's thread - that's his beef.
Competitive combat is a different story. I have in my possession a Metamod plugin designed for competitive 4v4 play. Mp_tournamentmode must be enabled and <ul><li>Aliens are only allowed 1 upgrade per chamber.</li><li>2nd and 3rd hive abilities will cost 2 points each.</li><li>Higher lifeforms are limited to 2 of a possible 3: lerk and fade, lerk and onos, fade and onos.</li></ul>Working on getting this playtested atm. It looks very promising for league play. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
This is exactly what lumps looking for! =]