I tried not to click it, but it beckoned me. I don't want to give balance suggestions as we haven't even had ample time to test the changes, however, it doesn't sound all that different. I'm glad the Dev Team at least sees that the mid game is what needs to be fixed.
Lay off guys, the team is trying hard to get the 3.1 out, even after Flayra's "few weeks" comment. I hope the hitbox code is fixed in time for 3.1, and personally, wait until it is. Although the changes aren't completely what I'd thinnk would help balance, at least they're doing something...
wygf: I have no idea where you are coming from because its all opinion with no fact. come up with a list of what you <u>do</u> think would work...
One (perhaps unforseen) consequence to upping the siege damage is chambers die a lot quicker. By upping it to 400, 2 siege shots take out a single chamber, where before you had a chance to heal them. This is a VERY significant boost, much moreso than the few extra points of damage done to the hive, and I think it may go too far. Siege damage was fine before this patch; what marines need are some boosts to other alternative tech paths.
Yeah let me elaborate on my little quip there <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--> .
The dev team has repeatedly and clearly stated their attempts at moving towards a deliberate patch schedule. They have been releasing small bug fix and balance patches since 3F came out; we're on the fourth one now, if the number hasn't clued you in. Despite this, and the fact that they are moving in the direction that <i>everyone</i> feels is correct, this thread is full of posters who lack the ability or desire to think this out, and maybe give the dev team a little bit of applause for getting us closer to a balanced game.
It has been stated by Nemesis Zero, and should be obvious, that we're already quite close considering how much impact changes like adding 5 marine armor seem to have. This is both an indication of balance and an indication of how sophisticated the players are becoming. And when I say sophisticated, I mean about the game, <i>clearly</i> not about the forums. Ok thanks.
ZeframJoin Date: 2004-05-11Member: 28611Members, Forum Moderators, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Gold, NS2 Map Tester, WC 2013 - Shadow, Subnautica Playtester, Pistachionauts, Retired Community Developer
Has anyone actually played 3.04 and seen the effects of the changes? I'm not too keen on the math and numbers of the game yet and haven't seen how it affects the game yet.
I think we need an detailed analysis before the nubs start whining about the changes. From my guesses, the changes affect the games more than the eye rollers will admit.
<!--QuoteBegin-Lofung+Jun 1 2005, 09:37 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Lofung @ Jun 1 2005, 09:37 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> yay the dev team push me away from NS once more. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> A non-specific piece of information that's completely useless for feedback.
Bravo, sir.
Nice to see the .txt crew of combat pubstars once again giving witty comments on a patch they've never played that affects a gamemode which they most likely don't even understand.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Funny how up to and during 3b5, 2.01 was the most balanced version of NS<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
2.01, balanced? /boggle
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->By upping it to 400, 2 siege shots take out a single chamber, where before you had a chance to heal them<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Chance to heal? Siege cannons have a major blast radius, gorges dont live through upclose siege shots. Unless of course they can heal from across the room?
ok i found out the problem, apparently the ns.wad in the zip from some download links is corrupted. it registers as a zero byte file and the dedicated server cannot start correctly.
EMP_DemonNothing to see here.Join Date: 2005-01-28Member: 38754Members, Constellation
<!--QuoteBegin-Electrical Tape+Jun 2 2005, 12:06 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Electrical Tape @ Jun 2 2005, 12:06 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Chance to heal? Siege cannons have a major blast radius, gorges dont live through upclose siege shots. Unless of course they can heal from across the room?<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Sieges... don't... hurt players... <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
i think that they should hurt players, because it stops the stupid gorges from camping and putting the hive up over and over again on a siege map when half their team is dead and its just wasting time <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Yeah Siege damage was so cool when you were 50 feet away from the hive and died from it! Honestly its good as it is now. Sieges maps are a waste of time.
Ick... when did they take that out? The odd times I do play classic, I never play marines anymore. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Since 3.0Final, so for the last 3 months...
im sure these changes will effect clan play, but i cant see it having much, if any effect in pubs... other than making it even easier to rack up skulk kills in the begining of the round, since we dont have to hump.
<!--QuoteBegin-GiGaBiTe+Jun 2 2005, 05:34 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (GiGaBiTe @ Jun 2 2005, 05:34 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> ok i found out the problem, apparently the ns.wad in the zip from some download links is corrupted. it registers as a zero byte file and the dedicated server cannot start correctly.
someone might want to look into that.. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> That one sounds pretty damn ghastly, but it can't have very much to do with .0.4, since it does not include any .wad files at all. Where did you download the 3.0 server version you're running from?
<!--QuoteBegin-Reeke+Jun 2 2005, 03:25 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Reeke @ Jun 2 2005, 03:25 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> im sure these changes will effect clan play, but i cant see it having much, if any effect in pubs... other than making it even easier to rack up skulk kills in the begining of the round, since we dont have to hump. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Well, if that's the case, then good. A few people here seem to be complaining that .03 was great for pubs, while my impression from reading the competitive discussion board is that aliens were still stronger in clan play - so if this helps the clanners but doesn't affect pubs, so much the better.
<!--QuoteBegin-Us3r+Jun 1 2005, 09:19 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Us3r @ Jun 1 2005, 09:19 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Zek+Jun 1 2005, 08:23 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Zek @ Jun 1 2005, 08:23 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> +50% to alien upgrade times seems like a reasonably significant change to me. If the aliens have 2 hives and you're sieging one, that's an extra 2 seconds every skulk has to take before attacking fully upgraded. Or they simply won't take upgrades as often - either way, marines win. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> I'm going to make the increase sound larger by making it into a percentage. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> WHOEHAHAHHA <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Ick... when did they take that out? The odd times I do play classic, I never play marines anymore.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Since 3.0Final, so for the last 3 months... <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Started playing again 2 months ago and never even noticed that! That means I was hopping back and forth timing the siege shots for nothing...
[back on topic]
Hurray! for the aditional ammo! Makes comming more relaxed especially at the start of the game. Also should be easier to get those n00bs through the damn PG now.
<!--QuoteBegin-Buggy+Jun 1 2005, 10:19 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Buggy @ Jun 1 2005, 10:19 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> We're getting there now, NS should be perfectly balanced by 3.0.6 at this rate. \o/ <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> and then they release 3.1, right? <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
tankefuglOne Script To Rule Them All...Trondheim, NorwayJoin Date: 2002-11-14Member: 8641Members, Retired Developer, NS1 Playtester, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue
<!--QuoteBegin-Anderval+Jun 2 2005, 10:54 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Anderval @ Jun 2 2005, 10:54 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Buggy+Jun 1 2005, 10:19 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Buggy @ Jun 1 2005, 10:19 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> We're getting there now, NS should be perfectly balanced by 3.0.6 at this rate. \o/ <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> and then they release 3.1, right? <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Yeah, then we'll start this circus again <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
puzlThe Old FirmJoin Date: 2003-02-26Member: 14029Retired Developer, NS1 Playtester, Forum Moderators, Constellation
edited June 2005
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Anyhoo, like Nem0 said before, the dev team will inevitably get fed up of code changes, precise changes, that if done wrong, may jepardise the whole future of NS. They want something easy to be doing for a change. What easier thing to give them than changing a few damage variables here and there. You also need to give the playtesters something to do (god knows they must be bored sh*tless doing nothing, whilst the dev team is working towards the next major release tounge.gif) <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> They want something easy to be doing for a change. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Not for 'a change' - 'also'. We are hard at work on 3.1 and a numbers only balance patch costs one of us about an hours work. If we gave 3.0.x patches the attention somepeople are suggesting it needs then 3.1 will never get released. Once we change a single line of code then we have to put the server through a QA regression test for bugs. This will consume days from the 3.1 schedule - and get this, 3.1 has some changes to gameplay that *will* impact balance, so we'd probably have to redo any significant balances changes seperately in the 3.1 development branch.
What's this I hear about 3.1 having different movement code? :o
If bhop gets removed, I'll run to your house (albeit in a zig-zag fashion without a speed increase), place a flaming bag full of dog s*** on your front door, and make it xenocide on your nice new Italian loafers.
<!--QuoteBegin-Snidely+Jun 2 2005, 04:02 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Snidely @ Jun 2 2005, 04:02 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Reeke+Jun 2 2005, 03:25 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Reeke @ Jun 2 2005, 03:25 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> im sure these changes will effect clan play, but i cant see it having much, if any effect in pubs... other than making it even easier to rack up skulk kills in the begining of the round, since we dont have to hump. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Well, if that's the case, then good. A few people here seem to be complaining that .03 was great for pubs, while my impression from reading the competitive discussion board is that aliens were still stronger in clan play - so if this helps the clanners but doesn't affect pubs, so much the better. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Clan balance and pub balance really aren't that different. In pubs, the skilled/stacked team is going to win anyway.
If the clan scene is balanced, the balance will filter down to pubs as well, especially with the ever-increasing skill level of the average player nowadays.
but lets be honest, an extra 10 seconds here, 10 seconds off there, really isnt going to have impact in pub play. the marines starting with extra ammo is the only thing i can see having an impact
<!--QuoteBegin-Reeke+Jun 2 2005, 06:40 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Reeke @ Jun 2 2005, 06:40 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> but lets be honest, an extra 10 seconds here, 10 seconds off there, really isnt going to have impact in pub play. the marines starting with extra ammo is the only thing i can see having an impact <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> You'd be surprised.
It's easier for the marines to incorporate strategy than the aliens. All you need is a single comm who isn't an idiot.
20 second earlier HMGs can actually mean more than you think. If your team manages to take out an alien node, you can have HMGs waiting for the fades.
<!--QuoteBegin-Toothy+Jun 2 2005, 04:55 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Toothy @ Jun 2 2005, 04:55 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Nice to see the .txt crew of combat pubstars once again giving witty comments on a patch they've never played that affects a gamemode which they most likely don't even understand. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> It's what we do.
Some things that Ive noticed from this thread: <ul><li>Some people don't know anything about developing a Mod but still seem insistent on whining about things that aren't detrimental to the game.</li><li>Some people don't understand that when Dev team members get bored, they quit. When Dev team members quit, the structure and continuity of a game can be damaged. If this sort of thing happens too much, games die.</li><li>Some people genuinely don't understand the benefits of releasing smaller updates, more often. In the past bigger and more radical changes in updates have not enabled the Dev team to see the results of the changes. Smaller, well thought out changes allow the Dev team to edge -little by little- towards an <i>overall</i> balance (note the use of overall and not <i>perfect</i>).</li><li>The vast majority of the NS community (low - high skill) have accepted this changelog as a good idea, which brings us ever closer to playing a balanced game.</li><li>Someone mentioned earlier the example of chess as a balanced game. <b>NS is completely different.</b> - Each side in Chess is identical in its movement options (save the fact that white goes first, which is usually settled fairly). - 2 players play Chess, 2-32 (or more) can play NS. - Chess is played on the same terrain every time. NS has serveral different maps and even gametypes. - NS aims to achieve an overall balance which is only present when the round is yet to have begun. Once the round begins the human element determines any sort of equilibrium. All the Dev team can do is give each team options to counter different strategies (area control strats, tech strats). We should remember, however, that these types of strats are weakened or strengthened by the presence of a human element.</li></ul> In short, some people would be wise to stop taking things for granted and underestimating the degree of difficulty that exists in trying to balance an RTS with 3 dimensions and a huge possibility of human interaction (error).
<!--QuoteBegin-TOmekki+Jun 2 2005, 11:52 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (TOmekki @ Jun 2 2005, 11:52 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> only official members of team iceland are allowed to use that phrase, sherpa. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> <!--emo&:angry:--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/mad-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='mad-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Comments
Lay off guys, the team is trying hard to get the 3.1 out, even after Flayra's "few weeks" comment. I hope the hitbox code is fixed in time for 3.1, and personally, wait until it is. Although the changes aren't completely what I'd thinnk would help balance, at least they're doing something...
wygf: I have no idea where you are coming from because its all opinion with no fact. come up with a list of what you <u>do</u> think would work...
The dev team has repeatedly and clearly stated their attempts at moving towards a deliberate patch schedule. They have been releasing small bug fix and balance patches since 3F came out; we're on the fourth one now, if the number hasn't clued you in. Despite this, and the fact that they are moving in the direction that <i>everyone</i> feels is correct, this thread is full of posters who lack the ability or desire to think this out, and maybe give the dev team a little bit of applause for getting us closer to a balanced game.
It has been stated by Nemesis Zero, and should be obvious, that we're already quite close considering how much impact changes like adding 5 marine armor seem to have. This is both an indication of balance and an indication of how sophisticated the players are becoming. And when I say sophisticated, I mean about the game, <i>clearly</i> not about the forums. Ok thanks.
I support these changes and I'm glad the team is happy to release smaller tweaks like these. Can't wait to see what you guys do with 3.1.
I think we need an detailed analysis before the nubs start whining about the changes. From my guesses, the changes affect the games more than the eye rollers will admit.
Thanks for being patient with us Nemesis!
A non-specific piece of information that's completely useless for feedback.
Bravo, sir.
Nice to see the .txt crew of combat pubstars once again giving witty comments on a patch they've never played that affects a gamemode which they most likely don't even understand.
/cry <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/sad-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
edit-
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Funny how up to and during 3b5, 2.01 was the most balanced version of NS<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
2.01, balanced? /boggle
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->By upping it to 400, 2 siege shots take out a single chamber, where before you had a chance to heal them<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Chance to heal? Siege cannons have a major blast radius, gorges dont live through upclose siege shots. Unless of course they can heal from across the room?
<!--emo&::tsa::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tsa.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tsa.gif' /><!--endemo-->
<!--c1--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>CODE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='CODE'><!--ec1-->FATAL ERROR (shutting down): File read failure
email debug.log to linux@valvesoftware.com
Thu Jun 2 00:16:01 CDT 2005: Server restart in 10 seconds
Thu Jun 2 00:16:04 CDT 2005: Server Quit
[root@localhost ~]#
<!--c2--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--ec2-->
someone might want to look into that..
Sieges... don't... hurt players... <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Sieges... don't... hurt players... <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Ick... when did they take that out? The odd times I do play classic, I never play marines anymore.
After I've seen it, I'll give whatever comments I deem necessary.
Sieges... don't... hurt players... <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Ick... when did they take that out? The odd times I do play classic, I never play marines anymore. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Since 3.0Final, so for the last 3 months...
someone might want to look into that.. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
That one sounds pretty damn ghastly, but it can't have very much to do with .0.4, since it does not include any .wad files at all. Where did you download the 3.0 server version you're running from?
Well, if that's the case, then good. A few people here seem to be complaining that .03 was great for pubs, while my impression from reading the competitive discussion board is that aliens were still stronger in clan play - so if this helps the clanners but doesn't affect pubs, so much the better.
I'm going to make the increase sound larger by making it into a percentage. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
WHOEHAHAHHA <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin-Electrical Tape @ Jun 2 2005+ 01:26 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Electrical Tape @ Jun 2 2005 @ 01:26 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->
<!--QuoteBegin-EMP Demon @ Jun 2 2005+ 12:35 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (EMP Demon @ Jun 2 2005 @ 12:35 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->
Sieges... don't... hurt players... confused-fix.gif
Ick... when did they take that out? The odd times I do play classic, I never play marines anymore.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Since 3.0Final, so for the last 3 months...
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Started playing again 2 months ago and never even noticed that! That means I was hopping back and forth timing the siege shots for nothing...
[back on topic]
Hurray! for the aditional ammo! Makes comming more relaxed especially at the start of the game. Also should be easier to get those n00bs through the damn PG now.
and then they release 3.1, right? <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
and then they release 3.1, right? <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yeah, then we'll start this circus again <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Anyhoo, like Nem0 said before, the dev team will inevitably get fed up of code changes, precise changes, that if done wrong, may jepardise the whole future of NS. They want something easy to be doing for a change. What easier thing to give them than changing a few damage variables here and there. You also need to give the playtesters something to do (god knows they must be bored sh*tless doing nothing, whilst the dev team is working towards the next major release tounge.gif)
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->
They want something easy to be doing for a change.
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Not for 'a change' - 'also'. We are hard at work on 3.1 and a numbers only balance patch costs one of us about an hours work. If we gave 3.0.x patches the attention somepeople are suggesting it needs then 3.1 will never get released. Once we change a single line of code then we have to put the server through a QA regression test for bugs. This will consume days from the 3.1 schedule - and get this, 3.1 has some changes to gameplay that *will* impact balance, so we'd probably have to redo any significant balances changes seperately in the 3.1 development branch.
If bhop gets removed, I'll run to your house (albeit in a zig-zag fashion without a speed increase), place a flaming bag full of dog s*** on your front door, and make it xenocide on your nice new Italian loafers.
==1C3L4ND3D==
Well, if that's the case, then good. A few people here seem to be complaining that .03 was great for pubs, while my impression from reading the competitive discussion board is that aliens were still stronger in clan play - so if this helps the clanners but doesn't affect pubs, so much the better. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Clan balance and pub balance really aren't that different. In pubs, the skilled/stacked team is going to win anyway.
If the clan scene is balanced, the balance will filter down to pubs as well, especially with the ever-increasing skill level of the average player nowadays.
You'd be surprised.
It's easier for the marines to incorporate strategy than the aliens. All you need is a single comm who isn't an idiot.
20 second earlier HMGs can actually mean more than you think. If your team manages to take out an alien node, you can have HMGs waiting for the fades.
It's what we do.
<ul><li>Some people don't know anything about developing a Mod but still seem insistent on whining about things that aren't detrimental to the game.</li><li>Some people don't understand that when Dev team members get bored, they quit. When Dev team members quit, the structure and continuity of a game can be damaged. If this sort of thing happens too much, games die.</li><li>Some people genuinely don't understand the benefits of releasing smaller updates, more often.
In the past bigger and more radical changes in updates have not enabled the Dev team to see the results of the changes. Smaller, well thought out changes allow the Dev team to edge -little by little- towards an <i>overall</i> balance (note the use of overall and not <i>perfect</i>).</li><li>The vast majority of the NS community (low - high skill) have accepted this changelog as a good idea, which brings us ever closer to playing a balanced game.</li><li>Someone mentioned earlier the example of chess as a balanced game. <b>NS is completely different.</b>
- Each side in Chess is identical in its movement options (save the fact that white goes first, which is usually settled fairly).
- 2 players play Chess, 2-32 (or more) can play NS.
- Chess is played on the same terrain every time. NS has serveral different maps and even gametypes.
- NS aims to achieve an overall balance which is only present when the round is yet to have begun. Once the round begins the human element determines any sort of equilibrium. All the Dev team can do is give each team options to counter different strategies (area control strats, tech strats). We should remember, however, that these types of strats are weakened or strengthened by the presence of a human element.</li></ul>
In short, some people would be wise to stop taking things for granted and underestimating the degree of difficulty that exists in trying to balance an RTS with 3 dimensions and a huge possibility of human interaction (error).
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I am "TeamICE | David Hasselhof"