<!--QuoteBegin-whenyougofowards+Jun 1 2005, 06:19 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (whenyougofowards @ Jun 1 2005, 06:19 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I apologize for my sloppy sentance structuring and grammar/punctuation. I'm not trying to discredit the devs for doing thier job. It's a luxory to have a soundman in the crew. However, when the pressing issues aren't with background noises, or how the fade sounds slapping against metal; why then are you using Madmax as a defense?
Look, all I'm trying to get at is the devs should be more concerned about making the game first of all-<i> fun</i> & <i>balanced.</i> <i>Then</i> worry about fixing the game up nice and pretty like. : ) Just simple prioritization, that's it.
I'm not trying to question the overall mission or focus for Natural Selection as a whole or what have you. I don't have the right to do so either. (I'd just like to make that clear) I'm just stating my opinon about the newest release. Take it which ever which way you want. Obviously people like 'I'm lost' and 'Swiftspear' can't understand the points I've made. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Dude, what are you talking about? This patch is nothing but balance changes, no fluff here at all. As for sound changes(which, again, are nowhere to be found in 3.0.4), what he's saying is that Maxx is exclusively the sound guy. He doesn't do any of the coding. You act as if they are wasting time with trivial sound fixes, but Nem's point is that to do otherwise would be wasting manpower as it leaves Maxx with nothing to do. Maxx works on the sounds while other devs are doing work on the pressing issues - if they stopped patching sound changes, there would not be any more work done on the issues, it would just be a smaller patch. Different devs do different jobs, and work done on one area does not necessarily come at the expense of another.
Only played one 3.0.4 game- it was longer than usual (with the added bonus of not being decided within the 1st few minutes), but the aliens still managed to grind out the win -as soon as the 2nd hive goes up, the extra LMG/pistol ammo means nada <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
But this is still a great patch, marines don't have to hump as much, allowing them to reach their waypoints a few seconds quicker; that and the extra upgrade-gestation time pushes the balance in favour of the marines during the 1st couple of minutes (but I doubt this has any effect late-game).
I think it's wrong to expect a complete balance of the game mechanics by a small-sided server patch; we should all be waiting for 3.1 when, hopefully, 2-hive aliens won't be the killing machines they are now.
<!--QuoteBegin-Garet Jax+Jun 1 2005, 10:34 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Garet Jax @ Jun 1 2005, 10:34 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> the extra upgrade-gestation time pushes the balance in favour of the marines during the 1st couple of minutes (but I doubt this has any effect late-game). <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Actually, they can really hurt you if you're a late game alien in a defense situation, because you'd likely profit greatly from all three upgrades, which adds another four or so seconds to your waiting time, so I'd expect the change to be quite potent in late-game two hive-standoffs.
<!--QuoteBegin-whenyougofowards+Jun 1 2005, 10:19 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (whenyougofowards @ Jun 1 2005, 10:19 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> ...Look, all I'm trying to get at is the devs should be more concerned about making the game first of all-<i> fun</i> & <i>balanced.</i> <i>Then</i> worry about fixing the game up nice and pretty like. : ) Just simple prioritization, that's it... <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> What a lot of people don't understand, is that the very nature of balancing a game is counteracting the fun effect.
Take a nice, perfectly balanced game, like Chess. I've actually said this a couple of times before, but, when was the last time you had fun playing Chess?
I personally can never remember a fun chess game. I always play when I've got nothing better to do. Chess is more or less perfectly balanced, and therefore, not very fun (I know the stats people will quote something like 44% chance of winning if black, don't start on me, I'm tired, and liable to snap at you...)
Anyhoo, like Nem0 said before, the dev team will inevitably get fed up of code changes, precise changes, that if done wrong, may jepardise the whole future of NS. They want something easy to be doing for a change. What easier thing to give them than changing a few damage variables here and there. You also need to give the playtesters something to do (god knows they must be bored sh*tless doing nothing, whilst the dev team is working towards the next major release <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->)
In any case, I personally agree with minor changes in the game, provding that they don't shift the balance of power too much. Reducing the minimum best time for HA, and JP could bring the late game into effect before time, if you follow me. Also, reducing the AA time by 20 seconds is quite a lot, given what the marines get out of it. I've seen an AA done by 3 mins, before a normal alien has had a chance to fade, or get another hive up. Making that 2m40s would basically spell the end for the aliens.
The main reason why I agree with them is the human rights of the dev team. I can't really imagine Nem0 allowing them down the local cinema to watch Star Wars (which would be a breach of my human rights, making me see a film to which I already know the major plot points within). It gives our dev team a change, and a new persective on their major point work, when they return to it.
[/quote=cryforme] You know, i could be wrong, but when the game starts and you're on aliens, i'm pretty sure it says very clearly "You are defending".[/quote] T'would be the message that appears when you are playing a CO map, not an NS one. You can't win an NS map by defending your hive.
First, I'm not new to these forums, nor am I new to Natural Selection.
Secondly, this was not a 'personal attack' this was a moderetly defensive response to those users' statements. I simply noted that they did not grasp my initial points.
I understand each member of the dev team has thier job to do. My suggestion was not to leave the soundman out of a job; instead, just take care of business. In your A,B,C, short answer you in-short stated that -
A)The dev team does not know how to fix problems that have been in the game since 2.01 IE: SHOTGUN BUG
B)There is a fair bit if neglegance towards the people who have these 'leads' on the problems therefore they themselves cannot find a solution to them for whatever reason IE: They probably don't even play NS.
C)That fixing these more *pressing* issues wouldnt lead to a better, funner, more balanced game. <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--> I don't know what to say about that, but maybe I just misinterpreted what you've posted.
<!--QuoteBegin-Lt Patch+Jun 1 2005, 06:39 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Lt Patch @ Jun 1 2005, 06:39 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I personally can never remember a fun chess game. I always play when I've got nothing better to do. Chess is more or less perfectly balanced, and therefore, not very fun <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> That is not a compelling argument. Lots of people consider chess fun for various reasons... I'm sure you still wouldn't enjoy it even if it was less balanced. I don't think fun and balance are mutually exclusive - why would they be, unless your definition of fun is to win more often as one team than the other? The problem is that the changes most people consider to be "fun" are new features - basically anything that makes the game feel new again, if only a little. The game naturally becomes less and less fun the more familiar you become with it, and people count on patches to restore that interest. That's why you only see feature requests in I&S instead of "Increase base LMG damage to 11" or whatever else. But not only is it not realistically possible to continuously add exiting new features all the time, but every time you add a feature that affects gameplay, balance is affected, for better or for worse. As a general rule, big change, "fun" though they may be, are a very imprecise way to balance the game. Thus, game balance is often tweaked with small, uninteresting changes like the ones in this patch, which people then determine not to be fun. While it's certainly possible to have a game that is both fun and balanced, it is extremely difficult to maintain that state for a long period of time.
You know, I don't get not paid to have my words turned around to suit a resentment I can honestly still not really follow. I made my points, I think they are clear enough for anyone to understand, and now I'm going to bed. Night.
<!--QuoteBegin-whenyougofowards+Jun 1 2005, 06:19 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (whenyougofowards @ Jun 1 2005, 06:19 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Look, all I'm trying to get at is the devs should be more concerned about making the game first of all-<i> fun</i> & <i>balanced.</i> <i>Then</i> worry about fixing the game up nice and pretty like. : ) Just simple prioritization, that's it. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> But, none of these changes are mere aestheticss. They're all balance tweaks. So...why are you complaining that the devs are just "fixing the JP sounds" and such?
Alcapwn"War is the science of destruction" - John AbbotJoin Date: 2003-06-21Member: 17590Members
I have to admit, i havent played NS for about 2 months now...i have no idea how 3.03 affected the gameplay (Good or bad) but i thought 3.02 was pretty damn perfect. Are aliens still THAT overpowered? <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
EMP_DemonNothing to see here.Join Date: 2005-01-28Member: 38754Members, Constellation
People are complaining about the balance already? The patch has been out for what? 3-4 hours? <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
tankefuglOne Script To Rule Them All...Trondheim, NorwayJoin Date: 2002-11-14Member: 8641Members, Retired Developer, NS1 Playtester, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue
edited June 2005
<!--QuoteBegin-whenyougofowards+Jun 1 2005, 11:47 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (whenyougofowards @ Jun 1 2005, 11:47 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> A)The dev team does not know how to fix problems that have been in the game since 2.01 IE: SHOTGUN BUG
B)There is a fair bit if neglegance towards the people who have these 'leads' on the problems therefore they themselves cannot find a solution to them for whatever reason IE: They probably don't even play NS. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Hi.
The <a href='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index.php?showforum=38' target='_blank'>bug report forum</a> is our friend.
I've yet to see all these recent "atmosphere changes" you speak so harshly of, by the way. It must be, let's seee, four months or so since last time anything cosmetic was released.
whenyougofowards, I still dont see what the problem is...
I understand that you want the game more fun and balanced, and as far as that goes (and has already been stated,) this patch deals entirely with balance, unless I'm missing something your not...
On the topic of bug fixing: this is just a small server side patch, how could they do any major bug fixing on it? I think its brilliant that the devs can keep us going with little updates like this while they're working on all the changes and bugfixes that are going into 3.1 - and they are coming, just listen to Zunni's dev corner and take a browse through the bug database to see what I mean.
Remember, its as much a labour of love on the dev teams part in making NS as it is a passion for you to play it, theres no way that they would ever sabotage the game as you seem to feel they are. Give Nemisis Zero and the rest of the team a break <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
On the matter of the patch itself: I also think that the aliens need more incentive to mount a stronger offensive. Having said that, I'm not sure that making it impossible to push back a siege on their hive is the way to do it. I'm just of the mind that the any battle over a hive under siege should continue on while that hive is actually being sieged, after the marines have taken control over the siege spot, and not end as soon as the sieges have gone up. More siege damage means less time for warning and reaction, and I dont think that there should be no time for warning or reaction at all.
Otherwise, everything in the patch looks to be a step in the right direction, thanks alot Devs <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Obviously I'm not making my points clear. YES the 3.04 changes aren't 'aesthetic.' But they might aswell be. I don't see the point of fixing what isn't broken. The devs keep releasing patches to fix **** that isn't broken because they can't fix problems that have been in the game since before 3.0
BTW I do not need a link to the Bug Report Forums. But thanks for the dose of ignorant redundancy.
I'm saying they need to fix **** that actually will improve the FUN factor of the game and BALANCE it; INSTEAD of changing useless things that don't need changing. I don't know how I can make myself any more clear. I used aesthetics as an example of useless changes to an unbalanced game. It's like slap'n a new paint job on a beatdown o'l chevy. What the **** is the point? fix it up, then make it pretty ok. There is no need for most of these changes, where as most of the bigger issues are ignored...
<!--QuoteBegin-whenyougofowards+Jun 1 2005, 08:15 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (whenyougofowards @ Jun 1 2005, 08:15 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Obviously I'm not making my points clear. YES the 3.04 changes aren't 'aesthetic.' But they might aswell be. I don't see the point of fixing what isn't broken. The devs keep releasing patches to fix **** that isn't broken because they can't fix problems that have been in the game since before 3.0
BTW I do not need a link to the Bug Report Forums. But thanks for the dose of ignorant redundancy.
I'm saying they need to fix **** that actually will improve the FUN factor of the game and BALANCE it; INSTEAD of changing useless things that don't need changing. I don't know how I can make myself any more clear. I used aesthetics as an example of useless changes to an unbalanced game. It's like slap'n a new paint job on a beatdown o'l chevy. What the **** is the point? fix it up, then make it pretty ok. There is no need for most of these changes, where as most of the bigger issues are ignored... <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> First off, it <i>is</i> broken: by far the common perception is that 3.0F aliens are still overpowered, which is why 3.0.4 exclusively focuses on balance tweaks to help the marines. There's nothing useless about it; this is how you balance a game, simple as that. More importantly, the reason that there's nothing but number tweaks on this patch is because it's a server patch. It's simply impossible to patch the clientside bugs you're talking about without a clientside patch. As I assume you are aware, 3.1 is still in the works, but because it isn't done yet the devs are releasing server patches to address the balance concerns with the current release in the meantime. If they followed your suggestions, you would still be playing 3.0F and you would simply have to wait until 3.1's release. Maybe it would come a couple days sooner, but not much.
<!--QuoteBegin-Garet Jax+Jun 1 2005, 08:17 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Garet Jax @ Jun 1 2005, 08:17 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> The 3.0.4 changelog is as follows:
* Increased alien upgrade gestation time from two to three seconds. * Reduced time to research the advanced armory from 180 to 160 seconds. * Increased HeavyArmor research time from 100 to 110 seconds. * Increased Jetpack research time from 50 to 60 seconds. * Increased siege damage from 380 to 400. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Any <i>useful</i> changes that we should know about?
<!--QuoteBegin-SentrySteve+Jun 1 2005, 07:31 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (SentrySteve @ Jun 1 2005, 07:31 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Garet Jax+Jun 1 2005, 08:17 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Garet Jax @ Jun 1 2005, 08:17 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> The 3.0.4 changelog is as follows:
* Increased alien upgrade gestation time from two to three seconds. * Reduced time to research the advanced armory from 180 to 160 seconds. * Increased HeavyArmor research time from 100 to 110 seconds. * Increased Jetpack research time from 50 to 60 seconds. * Increased siege damage from 380 to 400. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Any <i>useful</i> changes that we should know about? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Not for combat junkies.
<!--QuoteBegin-Emanon+Jun 1 2005, 07:41 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Emanon @ Jun 1 2005, 07:41 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Not for combat junkies. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> The extra 1 second on the alien gestation time will completely change classic as we know it.
<!--QuoteBegin-DuoGodOfDeath+Jun 1 2005, 08:06 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (DuoGodOfDeath @ Jun 1 2005, 08:06 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Honestly, in my opinion, these changes will do absolutly nothing for the sake of NS. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> But a full second, dude, come on.
+50% to alien upgrade times seems like a reasonably significant change to me. If the aliens have 2 hives and you're sieging one, that's an extra 2 seconds every skulk has to take before attacking fully upgraded. Or they simply won't take upgrades as often - either way, marines win.
Compared to older version when it did cost 2 res, fighting basic skulks was a cake walk. Even with this one second added it will hardly make a difference at all. Gorges will steal like crazy and Marines will end up losing there siege spot, happens 95% of the time.
Over a course of 1 year, those 2 seconds adds up to 46 minutes and 32 seconds, thus giving the marines a 32 percent increase annually which results in aliens winning 7 out of 2 games.
<!--QuoteBegin-Zek+Jun 2 2005, 01:23 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Zek @ Jun 2 2005, 01:23 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> that's an extra 2 seconds every skulk has to take before attacking fully upgraded <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Yeah, if you think about it, 2 seconds is really like 3 seconds. 3 seconds borderlines on 5 - which is about 1/12th of a minute. If we take that and add the remainder (the 11 out of 12) then we come to one minute. One minute is close to a minute and 10 seconds - which is 1/6th of a minute. Since 20 seconds of a minute is 1/3 - or 33% - we can divide the questionable ratio and find that they are very similar. If you round up to hit the even 50% ratios you'll find that you're now at 1 minute and 30 seconds.
So really whats happening here is that the time increase is actually 1 minute and 30 seconds.
<!--QuoteBegin-Zek+Jun 1 2005, 08:23 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Zek @ Jun 1 2005, 08:23 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> +50% to alien upgrade times seems like a reasonably significant change to me. If the aliens have 2 hives and you're sieging one, that's an extra 2 seconds every skulk has to take before attacking fully upgraded. Or they simply won't take upgrades as often - either way, marines win. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> I'm going to make the increase sound larger by making it into a percentage.
So when we reach 3.1, will the marines be the new powerhouse <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
I wish they would stop changing things in favor of marines. That ruins the experience for me. I mean every other week we have to learn to cope with these weird changes. Makes the game feel unns-ish if that makes sense. <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Funny how up to and during 3b5, 2.01 was the most balanced version of NS. I like how even though aliens still win nine-thousand nine-hundred and ninty-nine percent of games and this is a marine focused patch, people will still whine about it.
Hey look, <i>I too</i> can use hyperbole. Why don't you guys try <i>not</i> clicking the reply button.
Comments
Look, all I'm trying to get at is the devs should be more concerned about making the game first of all-<i> fun</i> & <i>balanced.</i>
<i>Then</i> worry about fixing the game up nice and pretty like. : ) Just simple prioritization, that's it.
I'm not trying to question the overall mission or focus for Natural Selection as a whole or what have you. I don't have the right to do so either. (I'd just like to make that clear) I'm just stating my opinon about the newest release. Take it which ever which way you want. Obviously people like 'I'm lost' and 'Swiftspear' can't understand the points I've made. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Dude, what are you talking about? This patch is nothing but balance changes, no fluff here at all. As for sound changes(which, again, are nowhere to be found in 3.0.4), what he's saying is that Maxx is exclusively the sound guy. He doesn't do any of the coding. You act as if they are wasting time with trivial sound fixes, but Nem's point is that to do otherwise would be wasting manpower as it leaves Maxx with nothing to do. Maxx works on the sounds while other devs are doing work on the pressing issues - if they stopped patching sound changes, there would not be any more work done on the issues, it would just be a smaller patch. Different devs do different jobs, and work done on one area does not necessarily come at the expense of another.
But this is still a great patch, marines don't have to hump as much, allowing them to reach their waypoints a few seconds quicker; that and the extra upgrade-gestation time pushes the balance in favour of the marines during the 1st couple of minutes (but I doubt this has any effect late-game).
I think it's wrong to expect a complete balance of the game mechanics by a small-sided server patch; we should all be waiting for 3.1 when, hopefully, 2-hive aliens won't be the killing machines they are now.
Actually, they can really hurt you if you're a late game alien in a defense situation, because you'd likely profit greatly from all three upgrades, which adds another four or so seconds to your waiting time, so I'd expect the change to be quite potent in late-game two hive-standoffs.
<i>Then</i> worry about fixing the game up nice and pretty like. : ) Just simple prioritization, that's it...
<!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
What a lot of people don't understand, is that the very nature of balancing a game is counteracting the fun effect.
Take a nice, perfectly balanced game, like Chess. I've actually said this a couple of times before, but, when was the last time you had fun playing Chess?
I personally can never remember a fun chess game. I always play when I've got nothing better to do. Chess is more or less perfectly balanced, and therefore, not very fun (I know the stats people will quote something like 44% chance of winning if black, don't start on me, I'm tired, and liable to snap at you...)
Anyhoo, like Nem0 said before, the dev team will inevitably get fed up of code changes, precise changes, that if done wrong, may jepardise the whole future of NS. They want something easy to be doing for a change. What easier thing to give them than changing a few damage variables here and there. You also need to give the playtesters something to do (god knows they must be bored sh*tless doing nothing, whilst the dev team is working towards the next major release <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->)
In any case, I personally agree with minor changes in the game, provding that they don't shift the balance of power too much. Reducing the minimum best time for HA, and JP could bring the late game into effect before time, if you follow me. Also, reducing the AA time by 20 seconds is quite a lot, given what the marines get out of it. I've seen an AA done by 3 mins, before a normal alien has had a chance to fade, or get another hive up. Making that 2m40s would basically spell the end for the aliens.
The main reason why I agree with them is the human rights of the dev team. I can't really imagine Nem0 allowing them down the local cinema to watch Star Wars (which would be a breach of my human rights, making me see a film to which I already know the major plot points within). It gives our dev team a change, and a new persective on their major point work, when they return to it.
[/quote=cryforme] You know, i could be wrong, but when the game starts and you're on aliens, i'm pretty sure it says very clearly "You are defending".[/quote] T'would be the message that appears when you are playing a CO map, not an NS one. You can't win an NS map by defending your hive.
Secondly, this was not a 'personal attack' this was a moderetly defensive response to those users' statements. I simply noted that they did not grasp my initial points.
I understand each member of the dev team has thier job to do. My suggestion was not to leave the soundman out of a job; instead, just take care of business. In your A,B,C, short answer you in-short stated that -
A)The dev team does not know how to fix problems that have been in the game since 2.01 IE: SHOTGUN BUG
B)There is a fair bit if neglegance towards the people who have these 'leads' on the problems therefore they themselves cannot find a solution to them for whatever reason IE: They probably don't even play NS.
C)That fixing these more *pressing* issues wouldnt lead to a better, funner, more balanced game. <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--> I don't know what to say about that, but maybe I just misinterpreted what you've posted.
Have a wonderful day nem0 : )
nem0 says:
Why do we fix 'minor' issues when major ones are still around? Because
a) the coders got bored butting their heads against a particular problem and decided to do something easy for a change,
b) we have no good leads on the major problem, or
c) the effort involved in the solution of the major problem is currently in no relation to the gains involved.
Vasqueeeeeeeeeeeeez
That is not a compelling argument. Lots of people consider chess fun for various reasons... I'm sure you still wouldn't enjoy it even if it was less balanced. I don't think fun and balance are mutually exclusive - why would they be, unless your definition of fun is to win more often as one team than the other? The problem is that the changes most people consider to be "fun" are new features - basically anything that makes the game feel new again, if only a little. The game naturally becomes less and less fun the more familiar you become with it, and people count on patches to restore that interest. That's why you only see feature requests in I&S instead of "Increase base LMG damage to 11" or whatever else. But not only is it not realistically possible to continuously add exiting new features all the time, but every time you add a feature that affects gameplay, balance is affected, for better or for worse. As a general rule, big change, "fun" though they may be, are a very imprecise way to balance the game. Thus, game balance is often tweaked with small, uninteresting changes like the ones in this patch, which people then determine not to be fun. While it's certainly possible to have a game that is both fun and balanced, it is extremely difficult to maintain that state for a long period of time.
<i>Then</i> worry about fixing the game up nice and pretty like. : ) Just simple prioritization, that's it. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
But, none of these changes are mere aestheticss. They're all balance tweaks. So...why are you complaining that the devs are just "fixing the JP sounds" and such?
B)There is a fair bit if neglegance towards the people who have these 'leads' on the problems therefore they themselves cannot find a solution to them for whatever reason IE: They probably don't even play NS. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Hi.
The <a href='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index.php?showforum=38' target='_blank'>bug report forum</a> is our friend.
I've yet to see all these recent "atmosphere changes" you speak so harshly of, by the way. It must be, let's seee, four months or so since last time anything cosmetic was released.
I understand that you want the game more fun and balanced, and as far as that goes (and has already been stated,) this patch deals entirely with balance, unless I'm missing something your not...
On the topic of bug fixing: this is just a small server side patch, how could they do any major bug fixing on it? I think its brilliant that the devs can keep us going with little updates like this while they're working on all the changes and bugfixes that are going into 3.1 - and they are coming, just listen to Zunni's dev corner and take a browse through the bug database to see what I mean.
Remember, its as much a labour of love on the dev teams part in making NS as it is a passion for you to play it, theres no way that they would ever sabotage the game as you seem to feel they are. Give Nemisis Zero and the rest of the team a break <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
On the matter of the patch itself: I also think that the aliens need more incentive to mount a stronger offensive. Having said that, I'm not sure that making it impossible to push back a siege on their hive is the way to do it. I'm just of the mind that the any battle over a hive under siege should continue on while that hive is actually being sieged, after the marines have taken control over the siege spot, and not end as soon as the sieges have gone up. More siege damage means less time for warning and reaction, and I dont think that there should be no time for warning or reaction at all.
Otherwise, everything in the patch looks to be a step in the right direction, thanks alot Devs <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
BTW I do not need a link to the Bug Report Forums. But thanks for the dose of ignorant redundancy.
I'm saying they need to fix **** that actually will improve the FUN factor of the game and BALANCE it; INSTEAD of changing useless things that don't need changing. I don't know how I can make myself any more clear. I used aesthetics as an example of useless changes to an unbalanced game. It's like slap'n a new paint job on a beatdown o'l chevy. What the **** is the point? fix it up, then make it pretty ok. There is no need for most of these changes, where as most of the bigger issues are ignored...
BTW I do not need a link to the Bug Report Forums. But thanks for the dose of ignorant redundancy.
I'm saying they need to fix **** that actually will improve the FUN factor of the game and BALANCE it; INSTEAD of changing useless things that don't need changing. I don't know how I can make myself any more clear. I used aesthetics as an example of useless changes to an unbalanced game. It's like slap'n a new paint job on a beatdown o'l chevy. What the **** is the point? fix it up, then make it pretty ok. There is no need for most of these changes, where as most of the bigger issues are ignored... <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
First off, it <i>is</i> broken: by far the common perception is that 3.0F aliens are still overpowered, which is why 3.0.4 exclusively focuses on balance tweaks to help the marines. There's nothing useless about it; this is how you balance a game, simple as that. More importantly, the reason that there's nothing but number tweaks on this patch is because it's a server patch. It's simply impossible to patch the clientside bugs you're talking about without a clientside patch. As I assume you are aware, 3.1 is still in the works, but because it isn't done yet the devs are releasing server patches to address the balance concerns with the current release in the meantime. If they followed your suggestions, you would still be playing 3.0F and you would simply have to wait until 3.1's release. Maybe it would come a couple days sooner, but not much.
* Increased alien upgrade gestation time from two to three seconds.
* Reduced time to research the advanced armory from 180 to 160 seconds.
* Increased HeavyArmor research time from 100 to 110 seconds.
* Increased Jetpack research time from 50 to 60 seconds.
* Increased siege damage from 380 to 400. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Any <i>useful</i> changes that we should know about?
* Increased alien upgrade gestation time from two to three seconds.
* Reduced time to research the advanced armory from 180 to 160 seconds.
* Increased HeavyArmor research time from 100 to 110 seconds.
* Increased Jetpack research time from 50 to 60 seconds.
* Increased siege damage from 380 to 400. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Any <i>useful</i> changes that we should know about? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Not for combat junkies.
The extra 1 second on the alien gestation time will completely change classic as we know it.
But a full second, dude, come on.
Yeah, if you think about it, 2 seconds is really like 3 seconds. 3 seconds borderlines on 5 - which is about 1/12th of a minute. If we take that and add the remainder (the 11 out of 12) then we come to one minute. One minute is close to a minute and 10 seconds - which is 1/6th of a minute. Since 20 seconds of a minute is 1/3 - or 33% - we can divide the questionable ratio and find that they are very similar. If you round up to hit the even 50% ratios you'll find that you're now at 1 minute and 30 seconds.
So really whats happening here is that the time increase is actually 1 minute and 30 seconds.
I'm going to make the increase sound larger by making it into a percentage.
Hey look, <i>I too</i> can use hyperbole. Why don't you guys try <i>not</i> clicking the reply button.