Combat
SentrySteve
.txt Join Date: 2002-03-09 Member: 290Members, Constellation
.txt Join Date: 2002-03-09 Member: 290Members, Constellation
<div class="IPBDescription">Webs</div> This isn't an opinion - it's a fact. 1 gorge with webs can competely stop a marine team and delays the game by usually 10 mins.
Webs should not be in combat. The counters to webs are not effective enough. A welder is a joke - you'll get webbed while welding. If soemone has a GL and was able to down all the webs - the marines have to kill the hive before all the skulks spawn - or they have to spawn camp. And that's assuming that there is only 1 gorge. If the hive isn't destroyed in that 10 second window - the webs go back up.
Bottom line: Webs prolong combat games. If an alien team is unable to destroy the marines - webs will not save them - they only needlessly complicate NS combat. I've seen too many combat games where 1 gorge is able to web the hive room and suspend the game.
Webs have no place in combat - and if you reply with "just get a gl or welder" you're only showing your own ignorance when it comes to webs in NS Combat.
Webs should not be in combat. The counters to webs are not effective enough. A welder is a joke - you'll get webbed while welding. If soemone has a GL and was able to down all the webs - the marines have to kill the hive before all the skulks spawn - or they have to spawn camp. And that's assuming that there is only 1 gorge. If the hive isn't destroyed in that 10 second window - the webs go back up.
Bottom line: Webs prolong combat games. If an alien team is unable to destroy the marines - webs will not save them - they only needlessly complicate NS combat. I've seen too many combat games where 1 gorge is able to web the hive room and suspend the game.
Webs have no place in combat - and if you reply with "just get a gl or welder" you're only showing your own ignorance when it comes to webs in NS Combat.
Comments
Or... remove XP in combat <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
remove combat
Then we could attack by pointing at the enemy and making the "beep" "beep" sound. Then I'll be like "OMG I HIT YOU WITH MY BEEP BEEP!!!" THEN TEH BAd Guy will be like "NO YOU didn't!!! You beep beeped to my left!!"
Well, I guess +use and webs would be okay. Then webbed marines would be more easily used to death.
Get a gl or welder. Seriously, I don't know how you can say you still get webbed if you're welding. If you're walking, and you get webbed while welding, you're a bloody moron. If you're in a jp, it just takes a little skill; just clear the "easier" side of the hive, target the gorge, kill him, then you get 30 seconds of basically no worries hive-pounding, more if you kill the gorge while he's gestating again.
Oh, and saying that anyone who doesn't think like you (that webs CAN be countered in combat) is ignorant is not the best way to start a discussion. If anything, you just lit a match and burned your own ship.
Then again, I don't suppose there are many people left who can take you seriously anyway, so killing your own discussion isn't really a big deal. People in general don't listen to asshats, no matter how good they are/how good their ideas are. <remembers Forlorn>
As for the webs, I really hate them. I dislike being stuck in one place while eaten, and I don't find it enjoyable to be a gorge and shoot the walls. Steve may be partially correct with the counters to webs being weak. It is very hard to weld down the webs in a hive while dealing with the threats of other aliens. And a grenade launcher wont do much against them. The Rof is slow enough that in-between volleys a good gorge will put the defences back up. It would take a good deal of coordination between the marines to attack in that period of time. And a majority of co games I've played in lack that kind of teamwork.
How dare you make such an outrageous suggestion! Do you have any idea my frustration (and I'm sure my fellow Steve's as well) at having to spend one of MY well earned points because an alien got another ability?! OMG it totally ruined my day when that gorge did that, there were like five skulks who just spawned in and I had a lvl 3 HMG! I was practically oozing adrenaline out of my pores! Noob gorges!!
P.S. YES I EXPECT GORGES TO SIT UNDER THE HIVE AND HAVE TWO FUNCTIONS: HITTING "2" AND HOLDING LEFT CLICK
[/caps] [/sarcasm]
Get a gl or welder. Seriously, I don't know how you can say you still get webbed if you're welding. If you're walking, and you get webbed while welding, you're a bloody moron. If you're in a jp, it just takes a little skill; just clear the "easier" side of the hive, target the gorge, kill him, then you get 30 seconds of basically no worries hive-pounding, more if you kill the gorge while he's gestating again.
Oh, and saying that anyone who doesn't think like you (that webs CAN be countered in combat) is ignorant is not the best way to start a discussion. If anything, you just lit a match and burned your own ship.
Then again, I don't suppose there are many people left who can take you seriously anyway, so killing your own discussion isn't really a big deal. People in general don't listen to asshats, no matter how good they are/how good their ideas are. <remembers Forlorn> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
QFT! I concur, well put m8!
Then the lack of teamwork is what made you lose, not the webs. God forbid the aliens have some way of making it hard for a single jp/shotty to win the game for the marines (something I'm sure many of us have done, quite often depending on the pub you're on).
I say simply make the welder go off at the 1.04 rate of fire. everything needs an effective counter, and I agree with you that the welder is a joke as a counter to webbing.
Increase welder ROF!
You can fly straight into webs with a jetpack, while welding. You will get stuck in the webs, they will not be broken.
A gorge with adrenaline can spam webs (requiring zero skill) at nowhere in particular, and will easily be able to web a marine that is <i>standing still</i>. Even if the marine is moving around and shooting the hell out of the gorge, he will get webbed and die.
Slot4 is way overpowered in combat, because xenocide and webs have no effective counter.
Having said that, I much prefer classic <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
If a single marine shouldn't be able to influence the game that much, why should a single gorge? Also, being proficient enough to solo a hive is a lot harder than being proficient enough to stop a jp with webs.
If a single marine shouldn't be able to influence the game that much, why should a single gorge? Also, being proficient enough to solo a hive is a lot harder than being proficient enough to stop a jp with webs. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
A single gorge isn't winning the game on his own, while a single jp CAN. I know, I've won the game myself as the only positive score on the marine side, because no alien gorged/webbed. All a gorge can do is tip the balance towards his teammates, but he's not killing anything himself, except for the select few pro-gorges that _only_ play combat to battlegorge.
And stopping a good jp with webs is a lot harder than you make it out to be. Take the co_core hive for instance. If you don't know how/where/when to web, the jp can easily clear out a section of the webbing and still kill the hive with relative ease.
And the fact that a single jp can win the game while the rest of the marines get slaughtered if the aliens don't use webs is very relevant to this discussion. Webs are a counter, and they themselves are countered. Counter the webs, or counter the gorge, or both. Webs are annoying, yes, but even with two people rushing the hive repeatedly with jps and a shotty+gl combo, a single webbing gorge has no chance. Of course, if he has backup in the form of fades/onoses/lerks, they'll be able to hold the hive. I see no problem with a group of aliens using webs successfully repelling a group of marines. Note that, without the webs, the marines would likely be able to destroy the hive given enough time.
It's more fun too.
It's more fun too. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Thats a matter of opinion, I personally don't enjoy playing with game altering effects that weren't programmed in.
As for the webs countering jetpacks, why are webs needed? Fades are incredibly difficult to kill but there isn't a static weapon used by marines to kill fades. Weapons, ideally the shotgun and hmg are used to kill fades. Why cant leap and bite, supplemented with focus kill jetpacks? Also, webs are just plain frustrating and not fun. I don't enjoy spending points/res to shoot walls, and I dislike elements of games that freeze up/remove control of yourself.
REMOVE COMBAT!!!!!!!!
Prove me wrong.
This thread isn't about whether or not you like combat. It's about webs, stupid crap like that is just going to get the thread locked.
That unskilled gorge isn't going to take you out, however; he's just going to make it easier for his teammates to kill you. And quite frankly, I think it's easier the jp than the fade in a jp vs. fade situation, and that's why I think it's a good thing that the aliens have a little bit of a jp-killing-enabler in webs.
The gorge is the one killing you. Maybe not in a literal sense, but as you said earlier, there are times when a jetpacker is being chased by the entire team and living. The webbing gorge comepletely disables the player. The webbing gorge could even spit the jper to death, thats how strong webs are.
Maybe lame plugins should be considered by the dev team, most servers seem to be littered with the junk. <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Separating combat from NS gets my vote. Have one NS:Combat and one NS:Classic that need to be started separetly. I don't want servers to go back and forth between ns_ and co_ maps. That way I will never even see any combat servers, I won't have to meet the players who prefer it over ns_(most of these guys share the mentality that if it's effecitive, you are lame. They are also quick to yell omg scripts/cheats/hacks/lag whenever they don't win, and OMG pwned!11 whenever they do.).
Allmost any game relying on team work is an advanced stone paper scissor game.
HA, countered by onos, onos countered by JP, JP countered by webs /l33t lerks and fades/focus.
Webs and focus countered by welders, welders mostly just countered by being pushy enough that they don't have time to use them.
The problem is that some counters rely on diversity and cooperation. There's WAY too many players that want NS to be as easy as just going fade or JP and just winning unconditionally(and sadly most of the time it is just that easy, because people don't cooperate). No team work required.
The reason they have not undergone any major advancements or leveling is because they're the least used gorge ability. No one uses it.
But when they do, and they're good at it.. they can stop anyone, and that leaves a lot of hungry Oni as well as Fades. I was playing today, and one Gorge by the name of EAEWF or something like that, disabled us, the marines, and the fades and Oni just had a party. We lost, even though before the gorge came around, we were winning.
IMHO, the webs were just a bit too long, take about a second away, and it'll be pretty balanced.
win before gorges get webs.
or a more followable one:
GLs anyone?
At higher levels every element of combat has the potential of becoming whack-tackular, so finish it early, or enforce a 10 level cap, so a web gorge is close to the worst they can do.
Actually, if the webbing gorge holds the marines back till the timelimit, the alien team does win.