<!--QuoteBegin-CommunistWithAGun+Jun 21 2005, 12:05 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (CommunistWithAGun @ Jun 21 2005, 12:05 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> The problem is the second a new clan loses or is made fun of they rage quit
I get made fun of on a daily basis, but really, its the internet, get over it. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> The problem is lamers (I don't mean you) who aim for that. Honestly with the way some people act, you'd think that new clans were desecrating the game by existing or something. Morons going through high school withdrawal, I suppose. People should be above being offended by such lameness, but at the same time why it's there to begin with when everybody's talking about how the community/clan scene is dying...meh. I just don't quite understand what makes any part of that desirable for anyone over 13 years old.
I dont know, but almost every time I'e tried to get a game with a clan outside ENSL div 1, with a few exceptions in div 2 as well, the answer is "y?" "noknifeorlessthanthree" "lol, no." "*silence* sorry, not enough players" "*silence* sorry my team mates dotn want to play you, they're so lame!" "*silence* sorry, already got an opponant", most often followed by continous spam for a scrim that wont happen since they just passed up their only opponant.
That's probably why clans start fake nicking to get pcws.
<!--QuoteBegin-Splinter Steve?+Jun 21 2005, 08:10 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Splinter Steve? @ Jun 21 2005, 08:10 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-CommunistWithAGun+Jun 21 2005, 12:05 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (CommunistWithAGun @ Jun 21 2005, 12:05 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> The problem is the second a new clan loses or is made fun of they rage quit
I get made fun of on a daily basis, but really, its the internet, get over it. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> The problem is lamers (I don't mean you) who aim for that. Honestly with the way some people act, you'd think that new clans were desecrating the game by existing or something. Morons going through high school withdrawal, I suppose. People should be above being offended by such lameness, but at the same time why it's there to begin with when everybody's talking about how the community/clan scene is dying...meh. I just don't quite understand what makes any part of that desirable for anyone over 13 years old. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> there are lamers in every community, I don't know why anyone would expect the clanning community to be different...
Because they <i>lead</i> the community. I've always admired titanium for his work through IRC and forums, and have always found him respectful even when he would total me. He wouldn't humor people with lame tactics or anything. If you take part in any of the crap that goes on to damage what many others are claiming is a "dying competitive scene", then you've lost the right to complain about it, as you are now helping it along. You're ("you" = still in the hypothetical sense) a big part of the problem.
Combat as it stands is hugely alien baised and is exceedingly frustrating to play as marines.
However, it's fine for most pubs because of the large skill imbalances found on public servers.
But on competetive play, (the last match of combat I can remember is over a year ago I think back in UGL) marines never stand a chance.
The problems I can think off the top of my head with competetive combat:
- Aliens have upper hand at start, they just camp in hive room. Aliens in hive room have an advantage over basic marines. The +5 armor does help with this though.
- You can TK someone stealing any exp from the other team.
- Focus owns, spending a point on a welder is not practical. Furthermore welding mid combat is often sucidal.
- HA is awful because it is so slow. By the time you hit the hive, die, and respawn, the hive can easily be re-healed in that time by one gorge. On top of this, if the aliens are smart they will just wreck the CC if they know the HA are more than halfway to the hive. In regular NS, the problem of slow heavies are phase gates.
- Because HA sucks, the only other choice is JP. JP is an excellent choice regardless, because it can cover the map, attack and defend, and put constant pressure on the hive.
- Webs and Xeno are godlike in NS. Normally the best abilities in the game, they can come at lv. 5 and lv. 3, respectively. These two abilities alone are the biggest problem in combat, and guarentee that marines cannot win.
- Late game marine tech doesn't even compare to late game alien tech in combat.
- The "accessory" tree for marines is utterly worthless, save resupply and perhaps a welder marine.
What other problems are there in combat? Did I miss any? And feel free to post ideas for possible solutions too. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> "Combat as it stands is hugely alien baised and is exceedingly frustrating to play as marines."
that is because in my view marines are already underpowered.
- Late game marine tech doesn't even compare to late game alien tech in "combat."
tottally agree
how about the ability to get fades before I can even get my shotgun most times? Marine tech seems grossly underpowered
From what I can tell and this is pure opinion, in american NS anyway, Theres 3-4 teams that have the cream of the crop, and no room to get anyone new, they perma freeze their rosters and hoard the good players, granted I can totally understand why, but then you stagnate and you get "oh that team lets not scrim after all" eventually team members give the "you dont scrim enough for me" line and quit all together. I think those 3-4 teams problem is theyre afraid, afraid of some new blood coming into their turf.
<!--QuoteBegin-CommunistWithAGun+Jun 25 2005, 08:33 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (CommunistWithAGun @ Jun 25 2005, 08:33 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> From what I can tell and this is pure opinion, in american NS anyway, Theres 3-4 teams that have the cream of the crop, and no room to get anyone new, they perma freeze their rosters and hoard the good players, granted I can totally understand why, but then you stagnate and you get "oh that team lets not scrim after all" eventually team members give the "you dont scrim enough for me" line and quit all together. I think those 3-4 teams problem is theyre afraid, afraid of some new blood coming into their turf. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> QFT
it's one of the reasons thet the competitive community isn't growing.
This **** happens, you have to work around it, and the only way to do that is to introduce enough new players to the scene that the second-tier clans always has enough new players to compensate for losses by peope going to first tier so they can improve and in the end become a first tier team themselves. And so on and so forth for the lower tier clans as well.
Anyway, to continue my rambling, its not really the top teams stealing the good players that's the problem, its rather the lack of a broad player base that can sustain it that's the problem. You cant tell good players to suddenly stop playing at their level and join worse teams to help them out, that just isnt fun and the good players would lose interest and quit instead.
Solution: everyone grab a friend that play public and make them join a clan.
<!--QuoteBegin-CommunistWithAGun+Jun 25 2005, 08:33 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (CommunistWithAGun @ Jun 25 2005, 08:33 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I think those 3-4 teams problem is theyre afraid, afraid of some new blood coming into their turf. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> you got it right this far, yup. but at least in the EU scene, this quote isnt true.
<!--QuoteBegin-CommunistWithAGun+Jun 25 2005, 08:33 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (CommunistWithAGun @ Jun 25 2005, 08:33 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> From what I can tell and this is pure opinion, in american NS anyway, Theres 3-4 teams that have the cream of the crop, and no room to get anyone new, they perma freeze their rosters and hoard the good players, granted I can totally understand why, but then you stagnate and you get "oh that team lets not scrim after all" eventually team members give the "you dont scrim enough for me" line and quit all together. I think those 3-4 teams problem is theyre afraid, afraid of some new blood coming into their turf. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> I think it's more to do with people wanting to play with others of the same skill level.
Even if they were all split up, a couple clans will rise to the top of that and the same thing will happen.
The real message is, if you can't get good then you don't deserve to be top. Everyone who agrees with this quote is just jealous that they aren't as good as a select few others in this online game.
<!--QuoteBegin-Splinter Steve?+Jun 22 2005, 12:50 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Splinter Steve? @ Jun 22 2005, 12:50 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Because they <i>lead</i> the community. I've always admired titanium for his work through IRC and forums, and have always found him respectful even when he would total me. He wouldn't humor people with lame tactics or anything. If you take part in any of the crap that goes on to damage what many others are claiming is a "dying competitive scene", then you've lost the right to complain about it, as you are now helping it along. You're ("you" = still in the hypothetical sense) a big part of the problem. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> I gotta dissagree, the clanners in the NS community lead NOTHING, if anything were considered sub-human and constantly subjugated for whatever buzz reason of the week is available
<!--QuoteBegin-Zombies and Robots+Jun 19 2005, 09:23 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Zombies and Robots @ Jun 19 2005, 09:23 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Nooooo....
Please, no competitive combat. Combat is already three times as popular as ns, and making it competitive may just knock NS mode out. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> He right since all the CS players have come over since 3.0 over the past 2 years and have no idea about RTS games like NS which is RTS/FPS. Combat again might kill the very Nature of the original gender of the game play. Combat is nothing more than a FPS game and common FPS tactics the only new thing about combat is the experience level up system and also its not commander heavy and not resource heavy like other RTS games. NS is pure skill and team oriented game play, everyone has to play as a team to win. Even if they lose they played together and made it a GG to play.
Combat is just something to kill time and also help out in small game when there is not enough players to play an NS map. But combat also falls in this subject of team play too and it can used for competition Leagues like Cyber Armature League.
But NS is strategy and first person shooter combined and that’s what makes this game the 1st of this gender and the best one of its kind. And thats why every CAL Match is NS only and not CO.
<!--QuoteBegin-OnESabreWulf+Jun 30 2005, 09:17 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (OnESabreWulf @ Jun 30 2005, 09:17 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> NS is pure skill and team oriented game play, everyone has to play as a team to win. Even if they lose they played together and made it a GG to play. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Wouldn't Combat be the <i>more</i> skill-based one since it has <i>less</i> RTS elements?
<!--QuoteBegin-stallioN+Jun 30 2005, 06:07 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (stallioN @ Jun 30 2005, 06:07 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-OnESabreWulf+Jun 30 2005, 09:17 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (OnESabreWulf @ Jun 30 2005, 09:17 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> NS is pure skill and team oriented game play, everyone has to play as a team to win. Even if they lose they played together and made it a GG to play. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Wouldn't Combat be the <i>more</i> skill-based one since it has <i>less</i> RTS elements? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Co dosen't prove anything in the skill department after you get hive 3 abilities/3traits
<!--QuoteBegin-CommunistWithAGun+Jun 30 2005, 06:12 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (CommunistWithAGun @ Jun 30 2005, 06:12 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Co dosen't prove anything in the skill department of ns_ after you get hive 3 abilities/3traits <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> You might be right there.
<!--QuoteBegin-stallioN+Jun 30 2005, 06:07 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (stallioN @ Jun 30 2005, 06:07 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-OnESabreWulf+Jun 30 2005, 09:17 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (OnESabreWulf @ Jun 30 2005, 09:17 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> NS is pure skill and team oriented game play, everyone has to play as a team to win. Even if they lose they played together and made it a GG to play. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Wouldn't Combat be the <i>more</i> skill-based one since it has <i>less</i> RTS elements? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> You have to be kidding me. Lets break this down: <b>NS</b> Rines: Commander must coordinate marines in attacking alien lifeforms, structures and hives, as well as managing upgrades and equipment for the team. Individual marines must build structures and secure key locations while neutralizing alien lifeforms. Aliens: Aliens must work as a team to neutralize marine players while destroying marine structures and protecting hive locations, as well as resource nodes and upgrade chambers. In addition, new hives and upgrades must be secured through a management of resources in order to combat advancing marine technology. Both teams: Each team must constantly battle enemy opponents while building structures and actively moving throughout the map in order to win. Victory is achieved by the elimination of the spawn points of the opposing team. Optional plugins/advantages: Commander Ejecting plugins Scripting/Anti-Scripting plugins
<b>CO</b> Rines: Marines must kill aliens in order to gain points and give themselves upgrades Aliens: Aliens must kill marines in order to gain points and give themselves upgrades Both teams: The objective is to simply kill other players until such a time as one team has a clear advantage, allowing them to destroy the central objective with minimal resistance (aliens: command chair, marines: hive) before time runs out. Optional plugins/advantages: Time limit can be changed (advantage: longer time limit makes for more even games if teams are matched. shorter time limit goes to aliens due to the fact that aliens win if the hive is not destroyed within the time allotted.) 50 Levels plugin - gives access to an unlimited number of upgrades based on levels gained. Extra abilities plugin - gives access to abilities not programmed into the original gameplay Building plugin - gives access to building structures such as offense chambers and turrets, which do not normally exist in combat.
So, based on these things: in NS, you have to have teamplay, coordinated strategy and the ability to aim correctly in order to win. in CO you just have to have decent aim. NS takes a team to win a game. in CO, you could have one person with an insane score and innumerable abilities who can level a whole team and take out the main objective without much trouble. obviously CO takes more skill. Gimme a friggin break. People who think CO takes more skill are the people who have brought NS to its knees thus far. Keep up the good work kids, maybe one day you'll wake up and use more than 5 brain cells to form your so-called "conclusions". If you're that big of a combat fan, go back to counter-strike. Down with CO, get NS back to what it was meant to be.
<!--QuoteBegin-cryforme+Jun 30 2005, 06:28 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (cryforme @ Jun 30 2005, 06:28 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> So, based on these things: in NS, you have to have teamplay, coordinated strategy and the ability to aim correctly in order to win. in CO you just have to have decent aim. NS takes a team to win a game. in CO, you could have one person with an insane score and innumerable abilities who can level a whole team and take out the main objective without much trouble. obviously CO takes more skill. Gimme a friggin break. People who think CO takes more skill are the people who have brought NS to its knees thus far. Keep up the good work kids, maybe one day you'll wake up and use more than 5 brain cells to form your so-called "conclusions". If you're that big of a combat fan, go back to counter-strike. Down with CO, get NS back to what it was meant to be. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> I dermine skill by how well you aim, not how well you can hold down the use key?
Although being able to multitask as a commander does take a fair amount of skill.
<!--QuoteBegin-cryforme+Jun 30 2005, 07:28 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (cryforme @ Jun 30 2005, 07:28 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-stallioN+Jun 30 2005, 06:07 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (stallioN @ Jun 30 2005, 06:07 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-OnESabreWulf+Jun 30 2005, 09:17 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (OnESabreWulf @ Jun 30 2005, 09:17 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> NS is pure skill and team oriented game play, everyone has to play as a team to win. Even if they lose they played together and made it a GG to play. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Wouldn't Combat be the <i>more</i> skill-based one since it has <i>less</i> RTS elements? <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> You have to be kidding me. Lets break this down: <b>NS</b> Rines: Commander must coordinate marines in attacking alien lifeforms, structures and hives, as well as managing upgrades and equipment for the team. Individual marines must build structures and secure key locations while neutralizing alien lifeforms. Aliens: Aliens must work as a team to neutralize marine players while destroying marine structures and protecting hive locations, as well as resource nodes and upgrade chambers. In addition, new hives and upgrades must be secured through a management of resources in order to combat advancing marine technology. Both teams: Each team must constantly battle enemy opponents while building structures and actively moving throughout the map in order to win. Victory is achieved by the elimination of the spawn points of the opposing team. Optional plugins/advantages: Commander Ejecting plugins Scripting/Anti-Scripting plugins
<b>CO</b> Rines: Marines must kill aliens in order to gain points and give themselves upgrades Aliens: Aliens must kill marines in order to gain points and give themselves upgrades Both teams: The objective is to simply kill other players until such a time as one team has a clear advantage, allowing them to destroy the central objective with minimal resistance (aliens: command chair, marines: hive) before time runs out. Optional plugins/advantages: Time limit can be changed (advantage: longer time limit makes for more even games if teams are matched. shorter time limit goes to aliens due to the fact that aliens win if the hive is not destroyed within the time allotted.) 50 Levels plugin - gives access to an unlimited number of upgrades based on levels gained. Extra abilities plugin - gives access to abilities not programmed into the original gameplay Building plugin - gives access to building structures such as offense chambers and turrets, which do not normally exist in combat.
So, based on these things: in NS, you have to have teamplay, coordinated strategy and the ability to aim correctly in order to win. in CO you just have to have decent aim. NS takes a team to win a game. in CO, you could have one person with an insane score and innumerable abilities who can level a whole team and take out the main objective without much trouble. obviously CO takes more skill. Gimme a friggin break. People who think CO takes more skill are the people who have brought NS to its knees thus far. Keep up the good work kids, maybe one day you'll wake up and use more than 5 brain cells to form your so-called "conclusions". If you're that big of a combat fan, go back to counter-strike. Down with CO, get NS back to what it was meant to be. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Your lack of knowledge regarding game-altering plugins for ns (OR failure to mention) rather makes your post biased, wouldn't you say?
<!--QuoteBegin-stallioN+Jun 30 2005, 06:34 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (stallioN @ Jun 30 2005, 06:34 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-cryforme+Jun 30 2005, 06:28 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (cryforme @ Jun 30 2005, 06:28 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> So, based on these things: in NS, you have to have teamplay, coordinated strategy and the ability to aim correctly in order to win. in CO you just have to have decent aim. NS takes a team to win a game. in CO, you could have one person with an insane score and innumerable abilities who can level a whole team and take out the main objective without much trouble. obviously CO takes more skill. Gimme a friggin break. People who think CO takes more skill are the people who have brought NS to its knees thus far. Keep up the good work kids, maybe one day you'll wake up and use more than 5 brain cells to form your so-called "conclusions". If you're that big of a combat fan, go back to counter-strike. Down with CO, get NS back to what it was meant to be. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> I dermine skill by how well you aim, not how well you can hold down the use key? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> please, dont make yourself look any worse here. if aiming is the only key to skill, you should seriously go back to CS. Anyone can run around a combat map and get lucky killing a skulk. it takes skill to be setting up a phase gate at a hive and holding back the skulks and other lifeforms that are trying to waste you. it also takes a hell of a lot of skill to be a decent commander, something which most CO players couldnt dream of doing, since it doesnt exist. People that think only aiming is skill are the kind of people who join a server on an NS map and type /menu.
Aim is part of skill. Multitasking is part of skill. Strategy is another part. So is teamwork. People who play CO use one of these four. NS players use all 4. And for those of you who didnt know: CO wasnt originally a part of natural selection. It came later to appease all the migrants from CS who didnt understand how to, as you so eloquently put it, "hold down the use key". when you have a decently thought out argument, bring it back.
<!--QuoteBegin-Depot+Jun 30 2005, 06:35 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Depot @ Jun 30 2005, 06:35 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-cryforme+Jun 30 2005, 07:28 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (cryforme @ Jun 30 2005, 07:28 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-stallioN+Jun 30 2005, 06:07 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (stallioN @ Jun 30 2005, 06:07 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-OnESabreWulf+Jun 30 2005, 09:17 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (OnESabreWulf @ Jun 30 2005, 09:17 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> NS is pure skill and team oriented game play, everyone has to play as a team to win. Even if they lose they played together and made it a GG to play. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Wouldn't Combat be the <i>more</i> skill-based one since it has <i>less</i> RTS elements? <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> You have to be kidding me. Lets break this down: <b>NS</b> Rines: Commander must coordinate marines in attacking alien lifeforms, structures and hives, as well as managing upgrades and equipment for the team. Individual marines must build structures and secure key locations while neutralizing alien lifeforms. Aliens: Aliens must work as a team to neutralize marine players while destroying marine structures and protecting hive locations, as well as resource nodes and upgrade chambers. In addition, new hives and upgrades must be secured through a management of resources in order to combat advancing marine technology. Both teams: Each team must constantly battle enemy opponents while building structures and actively moving throughout the map in order to win. Victory is achieved by the elimination of the spawn points of the opposing team. Optional plugins/advantages: Commander Ejecting plugins Scripting/Anti-Scripting plugins
<b>CO</b> Rines: Marines must kill aliens in order to gain points and give themselves upgrades Aliens: Aliens must kill marines in order to gain points and give themselves upgrades Both teams: The objective is to simply kill other players until such a time as one team has a clear advantage, allowing them to destroy the central objective with minimal resistance (aliens: command chair, marines: hive) before time runs out. Optional plugins/advantages: Time limit can be changed (advantage: longer time limit makes for more even games if teams are matched. shorter time limit goes to aliens due to the fact that aliens win if the hive is not destroyed within the time allotted.) 50 Levels plugin - gives access to an unlimited number of upgrades based on levels gained. Extra abilities plugin - gives access to abilities not programmed into the original gameplay Building plugin - gives access to building structures such as offense chambers and turrets, which do not normally exist in combat.
So, based on these things: in NS, you have to have teamplay, coordinated strategy and the ability to aim correctly in order to win. in CO you just have to have decent aim. NS takes a team to win a game. in CO, you could have one person with an insane score and innumerable abilities who can level a whole team and take out the main objective without much trouble. obviously CO takes more skill. Gimme a friggin break. People who think CO takes more skill are the people who have brought NS to its knees thus far. Keep up the good work kids, maybe one day you'll wake up and use more than 5 brain cells to form your so-called "conclusions". If you're that big of a combat fan, go back to counter-strike. Down with CO, get NS back to what it was meant to be. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Your lack of knowledge regarding game-altering plugins for ns (OR failure to mention) rather makes your post biased, wouldn't you say? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> competitive co plugin= good
Why the hell cant you use your powers for good <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/sad-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin-Raz+Jun 30 2005, 07:40 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Raz @ Jun 30 2005, 07:40 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> What the Hell do game altering plugins have to do with a discussion in the competitive forum, Depot?
He's right, it takes less skill. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> I mentioned it, Raz, because he mentioned game-altering plugins as a con for combat, and mentioned NO game-altering plugins as a con for ns.
A lack of knowledge? Or perhaps an "oversight"? Only he knows ....
<!--QuoteBegin-CommunistWithAGun Jun 30 2005+ 07:42 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (CommunistWithAGun Jun 30 2005 @ 07:42 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> competitive co plugin= good
Why the hell cant you use your powers for good <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I have, and the 2 competitive combat plugins are only the ones you know of?
Neither an oversight nor a lack of knowledge. Simply open your server list (not your favorites, just the plain old list) and tell me how many NS servers have game altering plugins vs CO servers with game altering plugins. The ratio will be so astounding as to make NS game altering plugins not worth mention. Thus, why i left them out. In addition, notice that this thread is focusing on the "competitive" traits of both. Go on NS servers with game altering plugins and you wont find players who consider themselves "skilled". Go on combat servers with game altering plugins and you will. Guaranteed.
<!--QuoteBegin-Raz+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Raz)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->What the Hell do game altering plugins have to do with a discussion in the competitive forum, Depot?<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> When CryForMe was covering the differences between NS and Combat, he neglected to mention any game-altering plugins for NS, yet he mentioned 3 of them in his description of Combat. If he was going to cover game-altering plugins in Combat, why not in NS? Would it be bias?
<!--QuoteBegin-cryforme+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (cryforme)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Aim is part of skill. Multitasking is part of skill. Strategy is another part. So is teamwork. People who play CO use one of these four. NS players use all 4. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> If Combat uses only one of those four (aim), and one can aim well, you wouldn't say that person is more skilled? They are using all the portions of "skill" (as defined by you) available in Combat.
I never thought of teamwork as being skilled in terms of skulks baiting marines or having 3 marines take out an onos, but that's what you define as skill sơ I can't argue much there...
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I mentioned it, Raz, because he mentioned game-altering plugins as a con for combat, and mentioned NO game-altering plugins as a con for ns.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
That's because nearly every single Co server is extralevels, while almost every NS server is vanilla or very close.
<!--QuoteBegin-cryforme+Jun 30 2005, 07:49 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (cryforme @ Jun 30 2005, 07:49 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Neither an oversight nor a lack of knowledge. Simply open your server list (not your favorites, just the plain old list) and tell me how many NS servers have game altering plugins vs CO servers with game altering plugins. The ratio will be so astounding as to make NS game altering plugins not worth mention. Thus, why i left them out. In addition, notice that this thread is focusing on the "competitive" traits of both. Go on NS servers with game altering plugins and you wont find players who consider themselves "skilled". Go on combat servers with game altering plugins and you will. Guaranteed.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> The ratio will only be astounding only because there are many more combat servers running at any given time.
As to the cons you listed for combat, this has been brought up so many times I hate to repeat it, but combat servers <b>DO</b> exist without extralevels2 or any other game-altering plugins. That being said there's no problem in finding a plain vanilla server if that's what blows your skirt up. <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Comments
I get made fun of on a daily basis, but really, its the internet, get over it. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
The problem is lamers (I don't mean you) who aim for that. Honestly with the way some people act, you'd think that new clans were desecrating the game by existing or something. Morons going through high school withdrawal, I suppose. People should be above being offended by such lameness, but at the same time why it's there to begin with when everybody's talking about how the community/clan scene is dying...meh. I just don't quite understand what makes any part of that desirable for anyone over 13 years old.
That's probably why clans start fake nicking to get pcws.
I get made fun of on a daily basis, but really, its the internet, get over it. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The problem is lamers (I don't mean you) who aim for that. Honestly with the way some people act, you'd think that new clans were desecrating the game by existing or something. Morons going through high school withdrawal, I suppose. People should be above being offended by such lameness, but at the same time why it's there to begin with when everybody's talking about how the community/clan scene is dying...meh. I just don't quite understand what makes any part of that desirable for anyone over 13 years old. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
there are lamers in every community, I don't know why anyone would expect the clanning community to be different...
Combat as it stands is hugely alien baised and is exceedingly frustrating to play as marines.
However, it's fine for most pubs because of the large skill imbalances found on public servers.
But on competetive play, (the last match of combat I can remember is over a year ago I think back in UGL) marines never stand a chance.
The problems I can think off the top of my head with competetive combat:
- Aliens have upper hand at start, they just camp in hive room. Aliens in hive room have an advantage over basic marines. The +5 armor does help with this though.
- You can TK someone stealing any exp from the other team.
- Focus owns, spending a point on a welder is not practical. Furthermore welding mid combat is often sucidal.
- HA is awful because it is so slow. By the time you hit the hive, die, and respawn, the hive can easily be re-healed in that time by one gorge. On top of this, if the aliens are smart they will just wreck the CC if they know the HA are more than halfway to the hive. In regular NS, the problem of slow heavies are phase gates.
- Because HA sucks, the only other choice is JP. JP is an excellent choice regardless, because it can cover the map, attack and defend, and put constant pressure on the hive.
- Webs and Xeno are godlike in NS. Normally the best abilities in the game, they can come at lv. 5 and lv. 3, respectively. These two abilities alone are the biggest problem in combat, and guarentee that marines cannot win.
- Late game marine tech doesn't even compare to late game alien tech in combat.
- The "accessory" tree for marines is utterly worthless, save resupply and perhaps a welder marine.
What other problems are there in combat? Did I miss any? And feel free to post ideas for possible solutions too. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
"Combat as it stands is hugely alien baised and is exceedingly frustrating to play as marines."
that is because in my view marines are already underpowered.
- Late game marine tech doesn't even compare to late game alien tech in "combat."
tottally agree
how about the ability to get fades before I can even get my shotgun most times?
Marine tech seems grossly underpowered
QFT
it's one of the reasons thet the competitive community isn't growing.
Anyway, to continue my rambling, its not really the top teams stealing the good players that's the problem, its rather the lack of a broad player base that can sustain it that's the problem. You cant tell good players to suddenly stop playing at their level and join worse teams to help them out, that just isnt fun and the good players would lose interest and quit instead.
Solution: everyone grab a friend that play public and make them join a clan.
you got it right this far, yup. but at least in the EU scene, this quote isnt true.
care to elaborate?
I think it's more to do with people wanting to play with others of the same skill level.
Even if they were all split up, a couple clans will rise to the top of that and the same thing will happen.
The real message is, if you can't get good then you don't deserve to be top. Everyone who agrees with this quote is just jealous that they aren't as good as a select few others in this online game.
I gotta dissagree, the clanners in the NS community lead NOTHING, if anything were considered sub-human and constantly subjugated for whatever buzz reason of the week is available
Please, no competitive combat. Combat is already three times as popular as ns, and making it competitive may just knock NS mode out. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
He right since all the CS players have come over since 3.0 over the past 2 years and have no idea about RTS games like NS which is RTS/FPS.
Combat again might kill the very Nature of the original gender of the game play.
Combat is nothing more than a FPS game and common FPS tactics the only new thing about combat is the experience level up system and also its not commander heavy and not resource heavy like other RTS games.
NS is pure skill and team oriented game play, everyone has to play as a team to win. Even if they lose they played together and made it a GG to play.
Combat is just something to kill time and also help out in small game when there is not enough players to play an NS map.
But combat also falls in this subject of team play too and it can used for competition Leagues like Cyber Armature League.
But NS is strategy and first person shooter combined and that’s what makes this game the 1st of this gender and the best one of its kind.
And thats why every CAL Match is NS only and not CO.
Wouldn't Combat be the <i>more</i> skill-based one since it has <i>less</i> RTS elements?
Wouldn't Combat be the <i>more</i> skill-based one since it has <i>less</i> RTS elements? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Co dosen't prove anything in the skill department after you get hive 3 abilities/3traits
You might be right there.
Wouldn't Combat be the <i>more</i> skill-based one since it has <i>less</i> RTS elements? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
You have to be kidding me. Lets break this down:
<b>NS</b>
Rines:
Commander must coordinate marines in attacking alien lifeforms, structures and hives, as well as managing upgrades and equipment for the team.
Individual marines must build structures and secure key locations while neutralizing alien lifeforms.
Aliens:
Aliens must work as a team to neutralize marine players while destroying marine structures and protecting hive locations, as well as resource nodes and upgrade chambers.
In addition, new hives and upgrades must be secured through a management of resources in order to combat advancing marine technology.
Both teams:
Each team must constantly battle enemy opponents while building structures and actively moving throughout the map in order to win. Victory is achieved by the elimination of the spawn points of the opposing team.
Optional plugins/advantages:
Commander Ejecting plugins
Scripting/Anti-Scripting plugins
<b>CO</b>
Rines:
Marines must kill aliens in order to gain points and give themselves upgrades
Aliens:
Aliens must kill marines in order to gain points and give themselves upgrades
Both teams:
The objective is to simply kill other players until such a time as one team has a clear advantage, allowing them to destroy the central objective with minimal resistance (aliens: command chair, marines: hive) before time runs out.
Optional plugins/advantages:
Time limit can be changed (advantage: longer time limit makes for more even games if teams are matched. shorter time limit goes to aliens due to the fact that aliens win if the hive is not destroyed within the time allotted.)
50 Levels plugin - gives access to an unlimited number of upgrades based on levels gained.
Extra abilities plugin - gives access to abilities not programmed into the original gameplay
Building plugin - gives access to building structures such as offense chambers and turrets, which do not normally exist in combat.
So, based on these things: in NS, you have to have teamplay, coordinated strategy and the ability to aim correctly in order to win. in CO you just have to have decent aim. NS takes a team to win a game. in CO, you could have one person with an insane score and innumerable abilities who can level a whole team and take out the main objective without much trouble. obviously CO takes more skill.
Gimme a friggin break. People who think CO takes more skill are the people who have brought NS to its knees thus far. Keep up the good work kids, maybe one day you'll wake up and use more than 5 brain cells to form your so-called "conclusions". If you're that big of a combat fan, go back to counter-strike.
Down with CO, get NS back to what it was meant to be.
Gimme a friggin break. People who think CO takes more skill are the people who have brought NS to its knees thus far. Keep up the good work kids, maybe one day you'll wake up and use more than 5 brain cells to form your so-called "conclusions". If you're that big of a combat fan, go back to counter-strike.
Down with CO, get NS back to what it was meant to be. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I dermine skill by how well you aim, not how well you can hold down the use key?
Although being able to multitask as a commander does take a fair amount of skill.
Wouldn't Combat be the <i>more</i> skill-based one since it has <i>less</i> RTS elements? <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You have to be kidding me. Lets break this down:
<b>NS</b>
Rines:
Commander must coordinate marines in attacking alien lifeforms, structures and hives, as well as managing upgrades and equipment for the team.
Individual marines must build structures and secure key locations while neutralizing alien lifeforms.
Aliens:
Aliens must work as a team to neutralize marine players while destroying marine structures and protecting hive locations, as well as resource nodes and upgrade chambers.
In addition, new hives and upgrades must be secured through a management of resources in order to combat advancing marine technology.
Both teams:
Each team must constantly battle enemy opponents while building structures and actively moving throughout the map in order to win. Victory is achieved by the elimination of the spawn points of the opposing team.
Optional plugins/advantages:
Commander Ejecting plugins
Scripting/Anti-Scripting plugins
<b>CO</b>
Rines:
Marines must kill aliens in order to gain points and give themselves upgrades
Aliens:
Aliens must kill marines in order to gain points and give themselves upgrades
Both teams:
The objective is to simply kill other players until such a time as one team has a clear advantage, allowing them to destroy the central objective with minimal resistance (aliens: command chair, marines: hive) before time runs out.
Optional plugins/advantages:
Time limit can be changed (advantage: longer time limit makes for more even games if teams are matched. shorter time limit goes to aliens due to the fact that aliens win if the hive is not destroyed within the time allotted.)
50 Levels plugin - gives access to an unlimited number of upgrades based on levels gained.
Extra abilities plugin - gives access to abilities not programmed into the original gameplay
Building plugin - gives access to building structures such as offense chambers and turrets, which do not normally exist in combat.
So, based on these things: in NS, you have to have teamplay, coordinated strategy and the ability to aim correctly in order to win. in CO you just have to have decent aim. NS takes a team to win a game. in CO, you could have one person with an insane score and innumerable abilities who can level a whole team and take out the main objective without much trouble. obviously CO takes more skill.
Gimme a friggin break. People who think CO takes more skill are the people who have brought NS to its knees thus far. Keep up the good work kids, maybe one day you'll wake up and use more than 5 brain cells to form your so-called "conclusions". If you're that big of a combat fan, go back to counter-strike.
Down with CO, get NS back to what it was meant to be. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Your lack of knowledge regarding game-altering plugins for ns (OR failure to mention) rather makes your post biased, wouldn't you say?
He's right, it takes less skill.
Gimme a friggin break. People who think CO takes more skill are the people who have brought NS to its knees thus far. Keep up the good work kids, maybe one day you'll wake up and use more than 5 brain cells to form your so-called "conclusions". If you're that big of a combat fan, go back to counter-strike.
Down with CO, get NS back to what it was meant to be. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I dermine skill by how well you aim, not how well you can hold down the use key? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
please, dont make yourself look any worse here. if aiming is the only key to skill, you should seriously go back to CS. Anyone can run around a combat map and get lucky killing a skulk. it takes skill to be setting up a phase gate at a hive and holding back the skulks and other lifeforms that are trying to waste you. it also takes a hell of a lot of skill to be a decent commander, something which most CO players couldnt dream of doing, since it doesnt exist.
People that think only aiming is skill are the kind of people who join a server on an NS map and type /menu.
Aim is part of skill. Multitasking is part of skill. Strategy is another part. So is teamwork.
People who play CO use one of these four. NS players use all 4.
And for those of you who didnt know: CO wasnt originally a part of natural selection. It came later to appease all the migrants from CS who didnt understand how to, as you so eloquently put it, "hold down the use key".
when you have a decently thought out argument, bring it back.
Wouldn't Combat be the <i>more</i> skill-based one since it has <i>less</i> RTS elements? <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You have to be kidding me. Lets break this down:
<b>NS</b>
Rines:
Commander must coordinate marines in attacking alien lifeforms, structures and hives, as well as managing upgrades and equipment for the team.
Individual marines must build structures and secure key locations while neutralizing alien lifeforms.
Aliens:
Aliens must work as a team to neutralize marine players while destroying marine structures and protecting hive locations, as well as resource nodes and upgrade chambers.
In addition, new hives and upgrades must be secured through a management of resources in order to combat advancing marine technology.
Both teams:
Each team must constantly battle enemy opponents while building structures and actively moving throughout the map in order to win. Victory is achieved by the elimination of the spawn points of the opposing team.
Optional plugins/advantages:
Commander Ejecting plugins
Scripting/Anti-Scripting plugins
<b>CO</b>
Rines:
Marines must kill aliens in order to gain points and give themselves upgrades
Aliens:
Aliens must kill marines in order to gain points and give themselves upgrades
Both teams:
The objective is to simply kill other players until such a time as one team has a clear advantage, allowing them to destroy the central objective with minimal resistance (aliens: command chair, marines: hive) before time runs out.
Optional plugins/advantages:
Time limit can be changed (advantage: longer time limit makes for more even games if teams are matched. shorter time limit goes to aliens due to the fact that aliens win if the hive is not destroyed within the time allotted.)
50 Levels plugin - gives access to an unlimited number of upgrades based on levels gained.
Extra abilities plugin - gives access to abilities not programmed into the original gameplay
Building plugin - gives access to building structures such as offense chambers and turrets, which do not normally exist in combat.
So, based on these things: in NS, you have to have teamplay, coordinated strategy and the ability to aim correctly in order to win. in CO you just have to have decent aim. NS takes a team to win a game. in CO, you could have one person with an insane score and innumerable abilities who can level a whole team and take out the main objective without much trouble. obviously CO takes more skill.
Gimme a friggin break. People who think CO takes more skill are the people who have brought NS to its knees thus far. Keep up the good work kids, maybe one day you'll wake up and use more than 5 brain cells to form your so-called "conclusions". If you're that big of a combat fan, go back to counter-strike.
Down with CO, get NS back to what it was meant to be. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Your lack of knowledge regarding game-altering plugins for ns (OR failure to mention) rather makes your post biased, wouldn't you say? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
competitive co plugin= good
Why the hell cant you use your powers for good <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/sad-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
He's right, it takes less skill. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I mentioned it, Raz, because he mentioned game-altering plugins as a con for combat, and mentioned NO game-altering plugins as a con for ns.
A lack of knowledge? Or perhaps an "oversight"? Only he knows ....
<!--QuoteBegin-CommunistWithAGun Jun 30 2005+ 07:42 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (CommunistWithAGun Jun 30 2005 @ 07:42 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->
competitive co plugin= good
Why the hell cant you use your powers for good <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I have, and the 2 competitive combat plugins are only the ones you know of?
In addition, notice that this thread is focusing on the "competitive" traits of both. Go on NS servers with game altering plugins and you wont find players who consider themselves "skilled". Go on combat servers with game altering plugins and you will. Guaranteed.
When CryForMe was covering the differences between NS and Combat, he neglected to mention any game-altering plugins for NS, yet he mentioned 3 of them in his description of Combat. If he was going to cover game-altering plugins in Combat, why not in NS? Would it be bias?
<!--QuoteBegin-cryforme+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (cryforme)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Aim is part of skill. Multitasking is part of skill. Strategy is another part. So is teamwork.
People who play CO use one of these four. NS players use all 4. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
If Combat uses only one of those four (aim), and one can aim well, you wouldn't say that person is more skilled? They are using all the portions of "skill" (as defined by you) available in Combat.
I never thought of teamwork as being skilled in terms of skulks baiting marines or having 3 marines take out an onos, but that's what you define as skill sơ I can't argue much there...
I
That's because nearly every single Co server is extralevels, while almost every NS server is vanilla or very close.
Knowledge is good!
In addition, notice that this thread is focusing on the "competitive" traits of both. Go on NS servers with game altering plugins and you wont find players who consider themselves "skilled". Go on combat servers with game altering plugins and you will. Guaranteed.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The ratio will only be astounding only because there are many more combat servers running at any given time.
As to the cons you listed for combat, this has been brought up so many times I hate to repeat it, but combat servers <b>DO</b> exist without extralevels2 or any other game-altering plugins. That being said there's no problem in finding a plain vanilla server if that's what blows your skirt up. <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->