<!--QuoteBegin-Nemesis Zero+Apr 27 2005, 05:14 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Nemesis Zero @ Apr 27 2005, 05:14 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Supernorn+Apr 27 2005, 09:55 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Supernorn @ Apr 27 2005, 09:55 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Considering 3.1 is the final version on the Half-Life engine, this entire argument is completely futile. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Whoever told you that? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't 3.03 a later version than 3.1? <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin-the x5+Apr 27 2005, 06:25 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (the x5 @ Apr 27 2005, 06:25 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Nemesis Zero+Apr 27 2005, 05:14 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Nemesis Zero @ Apr 27 2005, 05:14 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Supernorn+Apr 27 2005, 09:55 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Supernorn @ Apr 27 2005, 09:55 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Considering 3.1 is the final version on the Half-Life engine, this entire argument is completely futile. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Whoever told you that? <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't 3.03 a later version than 3.1? <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> 3.1 is fabled to be one of the last client-side releases for this version of NS, which will accompany the implementation of the Nexus system. The current patches we're recieving [3.0x] are simply server-side and number tweaks to work towards a general balance.
Edit: Think of it this way; no matter how you cut it, 3.1 is greater than 3.03.
As a response to this thread I have now changed my server to NS classic maps only. I think that's perhaps the best way to continue supporting the type of gameplay I love, and I thought some of you reading the thread might be interested.
<!--QuoteBegin-the x5+Apr 27 2005, 05:25 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (the x5 @ Apr 27 2005, 05:25 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't 3.03 a later version than 3.1? <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--><!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> This is NOT official, it is simply my random thought, from observation.
The current scheme that seems to be in use is: A.BC (and recently A.B.C). A gets incremented for game changing version updates, Client & Server. B gets incremented for client-level updates (which also always entail a server update as well), however in the past these versions have always end up getting really ambitious, and instead of incrementing B, they go ahead and increment A instead. C get incremented for server-side updates.
Whenever you increment A you reset B and C to zero ('0'), whenever you increment B you reset C to zero ('0').
<!--QuoteBegin-Al Kaholic+Apr 27 2005, 05:32 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Al Kaholic @ Apr 27 2005, 05:32 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->3.1 is fabled to be <b>one</b> of the last client-side releases for this version of NS<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> (Emphasis on the word "one" is mine)
There was a feeling, at many levels, that 3.0 could potentially be the final Client release for the current engine, I think when everyone saw how HL2DM came out there was a sobering realization that sticking with HL1 for longer then anticipated might not be such a terrible idea.
<!--QuoteBegin-Nemesis Zero+Apr 27 2005, 11:14 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Nemesis Zero @ Apr 27 2005, 11:14 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Supernorn+Apr 27 2005, 09:55 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Supernorn @ Apr 27 2005, 09:55 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Considering 3.1 is the final version on the Half-Life engine, this entire argument is completely futile. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Whoever told you that? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> From an interview on the Unknown worlds site, it looks like Flayra is pretty keen on getting NS:Source started soon after 3.1
So you're going to be working on NS on the HL engine after 3.1, while at the same time porting NS to source? That sounds like a lot of work.
<!--QuoteBegin-Supernorn+Apr 27 2005, 05:55 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Supernorn @ Apr 27 2005, 05:55 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Nemesis Zero+Apr 27 2005, 11:14 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Nemesis Zero @ Apr 27 2005, 11:14 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Supernorn+Apr 27 2005, 09:55 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Supernorn @ Apr 27 2005, 09:55 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Considering 3.1 is the final version on the Half-Life engine, this entire argument is completely futile. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Whoever told you that? <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> From an interview on the Unknown worlds site, it looks like Flayra is pretty keen on getting NS:Source started soon after 3.1
So you're going to be working on NS on the HL engine after 3.1, while at the same time porting NS to source? That sounds like a lot of work. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> 3.1 is the last patch before work on source kicks in to full gear. Doesn't mean they won't sneak in fun little patchs after that on issues that people complain about. And who knows, source work might even give them some good ideas about what is still possible on the old engine. You may see an NS 3.2 before source takes over the whole deal.
People who leave their CAPS lock key on when writing long sentences are far worse. Dont you agree? <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Some things deserve to stand out without giving people siezures. It wasn't like I was speaking in some quasi-AIM-l337 language. By the way, I held down shift the entire time; Caps Lock is for the crippled. <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Some of you guys are getting very bitter. It sounds like you read into Fangs' post too much and it whipped you into a hating frenzy in a classic propaganda-fest. NS isn't dying, and it won't be dead until after I am physically incapable of reaching my "W" button. As long as we have fresh meat that we can attempt to work with, the game is growing.
It sounds like we all need to hit Alt-F4, locate some <i>real</i> significant others, and take a walk in the park. Things aren't as bad as they seem... and ranting on message boards won't help. By the way, I am actually going to follow my own advice, just so you don't start flaming me for hypocrisy with your insane flesh-eating forum-goer skills.
I don't see why I should beat about the bush on this: There are already plans on the scope of 3.2, and from everyone's impression, it's a good bet that we'll have time for a 3.3 before work on Source becomes acute. Cutting a short story shorter, we'll try our best to make the gap between the last HL and the first Source release as close as possible.
As the time of this post there are the following populated servers listed in the ingame server browser.
Co: 48 NS: 22 Siege: 5
Also it is worth noting that about 2/3 of the servers were currently running Co maps (no I didn´t count them all but roughly)
So I guess you are right. And I also never really understood what the point with Co was. It´s just another teamdeathmatch thing. Like we don´t have enough of those allready. Atleast they could have made the objectives more intressting.
Oh well. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> well you did post at 5:42 in the morning. Not a lot of servers are populated and the ones that are have low player counts. When servers have low player counts admins go to co to keep the server population alive. Nobody wants to join an ns game with 6 people in it, but people will join a co game with 6 people in it. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> exactly what i was going to say.
try weekend/midday to find true numbers.
anyway, yeah. agreed to some extent. co is taking over.
there are 3! killers to this game right now. (these are my sumerizations from what i have seen through the course of ns. also grammer/spelling natzies **** off i already know and cant help it to much) also read through the whole rant and think about what im meaning before putting up your stockade and defensive walls.
I am a reg on now brachkars server originaly [CoFR] Fr31 Ns or ailen infest. I have been playing since 1.2 or earlier cant remember but early enough.. I have seen ns at its most likely peek.
The regulars on the fr31 server became "like gods" when playing on other regular pubs because at fr31 we fostered 2 things 1 a rich community and 2 GOOD sportsmanship. believe it or not no cussing/abusive language helps game play alot! having admins always playing or just a #admin call away helps. realising there are noobs and being ready to coach new players HELPS. most of these items have LEFT the ns community! as a community the new players are NOT wanting to play the game as a team they think they can just type god in console and go and mow the compitetion. it just dont work that way. 2 We have lost a huge ammount of the old timer community who could properly teach the noobs how to be a real god like ns player. most specificaly i can think of would be players like nadsey and stoneburg there are many more examples from every ones respective servers im shure. when you have players that are emminsly good at X or every thing willing and teaching noobs who WANT to learn how to play NS not more co then you will have a thriving community again.
CO was toted as a beggeners guide a tech teacher not a full game. Co could have handled that if the devs put forth proper pre planning for it. co as is now activly invites the haxorin cs **** to come and play here. if not them then the lone awp **** who wouldent know what a team was if it bit them in the @ss. If co were used for the purpose of training people about the tech tree 1 chaber upgrades etc then it COULD be a worthwhile side line for ns rather then the current COMPITITON.
ns 2.0 screwed the community and started it down the undead path it is at today. not exclusivly nothing is exclusivy to blame. I thank Flarya for all he and the devs did up to 1.04 and for help keeping the FR31 server alive. I also may or may not articulate my intent enough to explain but am trying. I am not bashing what the devs do/did, how ever I am sternly questioning where it led the community. ns2 caused a great rift of intrest for most of the oldtimers at fr31 for several reasons. 1.04 was not perfect it was still new but it had HUGE posibilitys. we were all excited to see it grow. some of the posibilitys started maturing in 2.x how ever(as i understand it) for the clan/ligue play the pace was picked up and that started one of the bigger problems. the seperation of clan rules and classic rules needed to be made. if you design the match rules specificly for matches and leave the classic a slower pased game there would be alot of improvement in the community. The feal of the game chaned horibly once 2 came out. ifyou didnt get X done by 2 min in to the game then it was already over end of sentance! it is VERY rare for a long battle to be possible because of the nature of changes that were made for the legue play. people started getting realy up tight and bickering wars became common at the 2x release. The patches and questions of wheather the devs cared/listened to the general community also **** alot of old timers off. it seemed that they near exclusivly listened to the clan/playtesters and not the community. (wheather that is the case is irrelivent when peoples fealing get involved) Is that the devs fault I dont know its hard to say what was happining with the dev team at that time if they would care to comment I certinly would be appriciative. (agian I am not trying to attack flarya or the dev team just stating what i have seen and can conclude from that information) Co only made this problem worse. insted of teaching players how to do ... in ns it started breeding a cs llama style of play. you bring in a bunch of the "new from co" players and the whole hartedly dont understand the game get frustrated and go some where else. reason A they dont like stratigy in the first place and would never be intrested in NS. reason B they thought they understood somthing about ns but other then how damage is givven from the marine guns they now have no clue whats goin on. those 2 reasons SCREW the ns community where co is conserned. was that the intention for co i doubt it but it has not done any thing good for the NS community. it created its own community that is now activly hurting the NS community. Brackhar is quite correct when he states you have a HARD time getting a good ns game going that IS thanks to co. fr31 will often fill during a co map and then when it changes to ns the next map all but 4 ish players tend to leave for another co map. I know this because when it switches to another co map quite a fiew who just quit at map change COME BACK! that kills ns especaly when ns is set to switch back to co when the server emptys. Its not Specificly CO is damaging the community it is alot to do with CO is stealing away chances for the NS community to grow. THAT SUX!
in 1.04 fr31 you almoast had to have a reserve spot to play it was RARELY ever not full. 1 am full 6 am full noon full you name it it was usually running about 1 to 3 players under full at all times. alot of our community got REALY **** at what was happening when 2.0 came out but wanted to give it a chance because we trusted the devs would realise what was happening. we tryed to articulate our fears and problems. it appeared to no avail, now most of those palyers are done with ns. that is where i see alot of hostility. I my self and i suspect alot of other old timers would be willing to give ns a chance again if it were to go back to its 1.04 game play roots.
now for the 3rd problem is the community I have touched on this in the first two problems but it needs more its self. Co usually does not breed intrest in team play. end of sentance! when you try to get co players used to ns either you or the co player often leaves all **** off. another issue to that is the admin/regular community that breaths life to a perticular server. the community is festering and brooding and seems now to refuse to help its self as well. you as a community must be WILLING to put forth some effert to fix this problem. IT starts at YOUR server. you as a regular and very knolagable ns player TEACH noobs how to play well. That is how fr31 weathered som much before it started to fall appart. the preasure of ns2 got to alot of our regulars and made them a bit bitter and snappy to player X. why because they couldent have FUN at the game they now had to win. to win you had to do this by .. and that before ... etc and if no one listened you were screwed in 2 min.
We had our own llamas but we as a community policed the server. I have not had administrative access there ever how ever i have had a fiew peopel banned/kicked. why because they were being little shits. that server you DONT cuss. are we willing to allow GOOD players some leanance yes, alfa can attest to that. Hes a lella good player but had a mouth... we did our best to fix that but evin he got baned if i remember for language. Another reason we did well is we were a relaxed community there to have fun not have a clan match 24/7 server rules were in place and mostly clearly followed. the nubs got bounced rather quickly id say in 10 min or less no matter the time. that made a huge difference. was that a big admin burden yes and no. all the regulars would make shure if they couldent quickly bann the offender he was isolated and kep out of play. if he was being a rambo punk the com would give his position away for the regs to go make it clear we did NOT appriciate his presance. the fact that the server was kep clean of tards and welcomed noobs makes all the difference. we had a rule you have to ask to com/gorg. we quite often allowed noob coms and we would help guide them through what and why to build/get. THAT keeps the game going.
NO one area is to blame for this problem we see now. the devs could have done... the community could have don... but we havent so now this **** sucks!
on a side note i wish i was playing on fr31 one of the times flarya was there to see how he plays. I would also appriciate his/the dev teams comments on their side of the fence. I know i dont know what happined in 2.x because we did not have to much of the devs prespective. I cant say what they did wrong with that if any thing. I can give only my opinons and suppositions. My biggest concern with ns since 1.04 has been the full time legue feal but i dont know if that was changeable or what. is that the cause of the problem? NO just one failing in a game dying as a whole. is co to blame? Yes and NO and its not nessasarly directly because co is this but quite abit about how co caused a splintering in the ns community and how it CAN activly stop ns from happining. the fact that player #'s either allow or not ns is where alot of the co friction is coming from evin if people dont nessasarly realise that.
there has been a lot of crap on this thread about you whiners aginst/for co GET OVER YOUR SELF if you have a playtester/contributer icon WHO CARES. certinly not I that doesnt make you specal for much of any thing! you are another player like me, maybe better maybe not. thats ALL Discuss this problem not whine and fight, THAT is where the problem is. you refuse to stop defending your self and or position . LOOK at what is happening and CALMLY look in to explaning your position. dont attack so and so for saying .... its not your place to attack how ever if you are smart enough to bring a VALID point CLEARLY to the table you do far more for your self AND the community. As i said before I have tryed my best to EXPLAIN what i have seen not accuse. believe me to an extent i want to blame and have improperly worded what I have sad. I have problems expressing exactly what i feal. I just hope this comes close enough to allow some of YOU to understand the problem as i see it. I hope it will get you thinking and you can either see my point as right or see a better reason and explain it where i can not to that the problem DOES get fixed.
I miss the game play we were afforded in 1.04 you havent seen a long battle til you have a 8+hr round. I quite enjoyed those we had probably atleast 1 a month that lasted over 4 hrs. It wasent about winning or loosing it was all about what happined during the game. The fact that nadsy could lerk out a 2nd hive after 1 hr and we make a come back made the game so intresting. is that clan play no but thats part of the point is clan play good for pubs not realy. the learning needs to be done in a more relaxed environment. then when one is good they choose to seek out a clan whom plays more competitivly. any more i dont see any learning attitude. also how ns3 has affected things i cant say as i stopped playing after co caused so many problems. co has potential to do what the devs origanly siad it was for ns can come back but EVERY one must choose to give it a chance and DISCUSS the problem clearly to fix it. if you need to flam go to cs where its appriciated more.
also the statement some one made is true about the general cs community starting to play ns/co they are more jumppy about hacks and such. after being off ns for 6 months i came back and hoped on a pub. I sucked compaired to how i played at fr31 before the break. but got quickly blamed of cheating because i still could mop up a non team work team. I am not a god at ns how ever I have had the benifit of traning under a quaker who has easly goten 16th in the national quake events. i can turn on a dime and hunt with the best evin when rusty. in the earlyer days of ns people would have watched me closely to see how i ate a team alive rather then oh hes just a cheeter... special/pistol hacking caused that? i dubt it but dont know. lil script kiddies from cs cause that? not nessasarly but they probably have upped the tension in that area. how ever diligent admins and regulars CAN clear up alot of that problem. so just about all aspects of this problem are quite the community's fault/problem take ns back look deep in to how the game is now played and see about giving a SOLUTION not a ****. my thoughts about a solution if you need them spelld out quickly are
1) fix co so it is not competing for ns's community. make it a true live traning mission not a game of its ownlike it is now.
2) look in to what balances need to be made to ns so that clan and pub play are seperated. calm the pub play a little bit make it some what more forgiving of inital mistakes ease the pressure to win win win.
3) we as the community need to start working on showing the cs/co community here what makes ns, ns and if they want to leave for a rambo shootem up then good luck to them. if they realy enjoy the teamwork and thought behind what ns used to be all the better
Minstrel_KnightThe truth and nothing but the truth...Join Date: 2002-11-21Member: 9562Banned
edited April 2005
<!--QuoteBegin-Kendrick+Apr 27 2005, 09:38 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Kendrick @ Apr 27 2005, 09:38 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> The regulars on the fr31 server became "like gods" when playing on other regular pubs <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> As a bit of ns history me, a civilian, Keyser, Magitek, and Dirm all came from the fr31ns server.
<!--QuoteBegin-Minstrel Knight+Apr 27 2005, 09:42 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Minstrel Knight @ Apr 27 2005, 09:42 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Kendrick+Apr 27 2005, 09:38 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Kendrick @ Apr 27 2005, 09:38 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> The regulars on the fr31 server became "like gods" when playing on other regular pubs <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> As a bit of ns history me, a civilian, Keyser, Magitek, and Dirm all came from the fr31ns server. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> quite right and im shure many others have not been mentioned that are worthy...
I used to be an NS purist.... only Ns games, I DESPISED Co maps. The my friend wanted to play me, so I ended up playing an entire weekend of Co. Its much faster paced than Ns, and IMO, more fun. Theres not the stress of you being the fade, the only thing keeping your alien team from sure defeat. Theres not stress of the comm screaming at you, "OMGWTH You didn't kill that skulk?!," and then saying to the opposite team, "My teams sucks, I give up" then he leaves. In Co servers, I don't have to worry about being screamed at. I can just enjoy the fast paced action and have lots of fun.
*** Before you start thinking I'm just a nub that joined at 3.0, I've been here since the day before 1.04 came out. I love NS, but I think it needs some work before it can compare with Co. <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--> ***
Not for Fangs... <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin-KoniaX+Apr 27 2005, 11:03 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (KoniaX @ Apr 27 2005, 11:03 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I used to be an NS purist.... only Ns games, I DESPISED Co maps. The my friend wanted to play me, so I ended up playing an entire weekend of Co. Its much faster paced than Ns, and IMO, more fun. Theres not the stress of you being the fade, the only thing keeping your alien team from sure defeat. Theres not stress of the comm screaming at you, "OMGWTH You didn't kill that skulk?!," and then saying to the opposite team, "My teams sucks, I give up" then he leaves. In Co servers, I don't have to worry about being screamed at. I can just enjoy the fast paced action and have lots of fun.
*** Before you start thinking I'm just a nub that joined at 3.0, I've been here since the day before 1.04 came out. I love NS, but I think it needs some work before it can compare with Co. <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--> ***
My 2 cents... <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> thats where my point about v2.0 and how the community reacts comes in. I agree if you have to be perfect and this and that in the pubs **** it. that seems to have changed atlest for fr31 when v2.0 came out. I cant say for every one as each community has its own style but i made a big difference from what i saw to ourse. The rush rush rush started fealing more like work and less like a game
slipknotkthx it can be a blessing or a curse. If all they want is a replacement for cs or somthing then yes it will hurt the community. the stratigy well be removed and replaced with gratuitous kills being the only driving factor. one of the great things about ns is the fact you have a huge ammount of stratigy available in a fps. battlezone is like this to a extent, ctf is like ns to a extent as well. you have the option as a engeneer to fix devicits in our defense. etc but thats my fealing about ns. I see the problem not so much about new players joining co but 1 confusion as to why co is here. 2 how it hurts those who want to play ns. yes if you tweek the configs you never go to co but alot of people arent in the mood to change more then basic settings. often what you start with is what you will always like, human nature. if you start them with somthing so much like cs then they probably wont be intrested in ns its to alien to them evin though the looks are the same. I easily gets to confusing trying to learn the game again because of a new game style between ns and co. there are also community problems as Brownovon said nslearn and the such are not being utalised well. is it because no one suggests/shows the noobs to ns hay here is a cool place to learn. is it because we as people hat to rtfm? i dont know. I see stoopid moves by noobs who dont want to read the motd/rules and or the manual and vets who chew them up and spit them out because of ther noobish ness. I have seen people on fr31 go both ways those whom calmy approched the subject often brought another noob in to being a decent player while those who snaped at them often soured the noob. being the com sounds real fun but is VERY intimidating. With inteligent rules and understanding that can be solved. vets helping those noob coms through the map makes all the difference. and noob coms WILLING to listen to the vets is just as benificial. the most benifical thing is marines and aliens that listen to whats going on. Evin if I dont agree with the com I tell him hay thats dumb and go and do it any ways. if you always did things the way you knew thay wored you would never find out a new stratigy. not all strats can win but you never know. helping a blatent noob also helps you though. thats where sportsmanship comes in
Don't flame me since I look like a total nub based on post count here. I just don't post here much at all since frankly, i barely have time in my life for NS atm. Anyway, it goes without saying, but I agree with Theslan, Brackhar, Kendrick, and the rest on the FR31NS crew 100%. I've been playing since beta 1.0 in all of it's horrendously laggy glory, where the alines dominated since the 'rines couldn't shoot <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo--> Anyway, neither here or there really.
I remember when acid rockets did recognizable damage, when FR31 would be full at 3 am, I remember the 1 game I actually commed and whooped up on depsite my lack of voice comm, I remember when CO did not exist. CO is a problem to people who enjoy NS mode. Here's how I see it. CO will teach you the very basics: Marines shoot, skulks run on walls, lerks fly, fades jump, onos are tanks with horns. You need to kill this, that or the other thing to win. Etc.
Someone who has only experienced CO mode doesn't know the first thing about NS mode. They rambo off like normal, expecting that it's ok. They don't really understand the RTS element, but they're not worried. They don't understand the tech tree, they don't understand that they have to listen to the comm, they don't understand that if you don't do X by Y time that you're basically finished barring any major mistakes from the other side. They get the living hell chewed out of them by their team and they don't even kno what just happened. They're confused, they're frustrated, and they got ppl breathing down their necks for not knowing everyting about the game. As they see it, this sucks. They do not have fun playing NS because of the way they get treated and how badly they lose at it. They don't want to take the time to learn if they're just going to get abused and beaten every time.
That's what CO has done. It has made new players afraid of NS mode. And can you blame them? Nobody would want to put up with that. Everything is just much too fast and calculated for the average player who hasn't been around the NS block a couple of times. They don't know the maps by heart, they don't know strategies when they see them being played, they don't know why the comm can't simply give them a weapon, they don't understand how it could be important to save a few seconds by not humping the armory after every spawn.
Instead of beind a stepping stool to NS, CO has become a Lazy-Boy chair. With a $5,000 massage option on it. With heated cushions. And a personal butler named "Clemens". They get comfortable and find that CO is fun for them because they don't have to worry about a lot of things like what your team mates are doing, what the comm needs YOU to do, etc. It's just needing to worry about MY kills and MY upgrades. And sorry for the marine side bias. It's weird because I'm a better alien.
Anyway, I guess the point is why learn something stressful when you're having fun right now? And there inlies the problem. A lot of players never really learn the fun of NS mode because they don't put in the few weeks it takes to get a firm grasp of it all.
And now for the nostalgia.
Lesse. 4 hour games on FR31 in 1.04, aLfa's evil video card, stoneburg's minerush of doom (chem trans lock down ohnoes), Nadsy the battle gorge, Jim (one man team as 'rine OR skulk - or anything for that matter), the railway of death on NS_nothing (above via - 1 PG, 1 TF and the entire length of BOTH rails with turrets <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->). I'm sure I'm forgetting a lot, but if I wrote everything I remember from the FR31 glory days, I'd be here all night <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo--> So, I guess I'll leave you with some parting words. Even if you do enjoy CO, take some time and work to learn NS. Don't just leave the server when it changes to NS. To those who already know NS well, don't give up playing NS for CO just because games go to hell because ppl don't know what they're doing. Coach them and try to teach them the ropes. I was thrilled when the FR31 crew helped me learn the basics of NS. Give another player the same help, and we might be able to actually have good games of NS again. Until then, I'll be trying to get a spot on FR31, as always.
Ah, I didn't even know you guys were still around. Everone, say hello to the "1.4 was the best" clique!
Sorry <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo--> its just been a long time since I have heard someone bring up this type of argument.
Ok, here's the way I see it. The fun you had playing 1.4 is never going to come back. After the 60 millionth time running through hera you learn all the spots, you know all the tricks, you have done them all before yourself, and the game just isn't going to be atmospheric any more no matter what version you are playing.
I have been told independantly that EVERY version of NS was the best version ever. Seems as if everyone cool has said at one point in time that 1.4 was the best version of NS ever, but I have also heard alot of clanners claim that 2.0 is the best version of NS ever. Personally I think you all are just deluding yourself with pleasant reminissions. 3.0 is the most feature heavy version of NS to date, and to top it off, this game is well rounded in terms of DM style realism and damn fun to play. You don't remember the boring games you had back in the day, unless you have already left NS, you problably don't remember much negitive about the game 2 years back.
I jumped into this game early 2.0, way back when when we were all still playing on WON. I still remember joining my first game and not being able to figure out how to buy weapons (ouch). I remember everyone complaining about the HA train being overpowered, and I remember regging some reletively backwater clan server and being proud of my record high healspray kill figure. I remember how insanely fun this game was back in the day, but I still haven't forgotten the sheer ammount of forward progress we have seen since then.
Kendrick: I bet I can name twice as many clanners that wouldn't still be in the game today then you can name people who left because of changes that made clan play better between 1.4 to 2.0.
2.0 seemed to kill off alot of pub comunities, but say what you will, I have seen a HUGE ammount of revival in both the higher end areas of clan play and the skill base of classic pubs all round post 3.0. TBH I can't help but attribute to classic MAJOR growth to every aspect of NS, and I VERY rarely see examples of that highly complained about rambo mentality coming out of newish co players. If co teaches new players anything, it teaches them that if they rambo off alone they will be slayed by vets like you and me, and the next time they rambo off we will be a fade in thier face rather then just a skulk. I see more useless co players who sit in base and watch other people build the IPs then I see over enthusiasitc players who rambo off where I don't fusking want them. Granted there is alot of things wrong with the current pub base, but a few games on LM or NS vets server and they quickly figure out the groove of quality play on a good classic map.
I have had my first game of NS shortly after 1.4 came out, so I lived those days of glory. Indeed, 1.4 was great. But it was also fundamentially flawed. The games were absolutely similar every time. It was all about locking down 2 hives and JP/HMG rush. Every game. If that was accomplished, aliens died a slow and boring death. If the rines blew it,they were overun by fade onslough and acid spamming. as soon as Hive 2 was ready.
On a sidenote: I stumbled across NS coincidentially playing some DoD (damn, that mod was good back then) My first games were desastrous and it was really hard not to become repelled by the elitist behavior I encountered on ANY server I joined. If there is anything really harmfull to NS, its not CO (albeit I agree that it should be changed to more closely reseble the game mechanics of NS) but the communities disruptive behavior toward new players.
Not everybody is ramboing off because he's an ignorant bugger. Ever imagined that he doesn't know the map and is confused? Ever imagined that many seasoned comms don't give proper WP anymore but just yell, "GO THERE!!! ONOS!! PHASE NOW YOU NUBLET?" Ever thought about the possibility that the newbie does not know what a damn phase is or how how to use it?
I remember, when I first asked how o build something, I was answered "press E you flipping n00b". I was quite tempted to deinstall on the very instance, but I gave it a chance. I dont't want to know how many new players the mod lost due to the steep learning curve and elitist bickering.
<!--QuoteBegin-Ahnteis+Apr 28 2005, 04:35 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Ahnteis @ Apr 28 2005, 04:35 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I miss the old [cofr] server. Fr31ns or however it was (is) spelled. Nadsy and Stoneburg. Wow. Those names bring back some crazy memories.
[misses some things about 1.x days] <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> We're still around Ahnteis, although our IP has changed.
Oh, and Karrde: <!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Instead of beind a stepping stool to NS, CO has become a Lazy-Boy chair. With a $5,000 massage option on it. With heated cushions. And a personal butler named "Clemens".<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--QuoteBegin-Zunni+Apr 26 2005, 11:32 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Zunni @ Apr 26 2005, 11:32 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> If all the people who hate CO were actually playing games of NS, pehaps there wouldn't be so many empty NS servers (or people bored enough to come on here and complain)??
From what I've seen here, there are a tremendous number of "co-haters" on these very boards, then why aren't all the servers running NS filling up with these people?
What this says to me, is "NS purists" ARE playing CO or aren't playing any NS at all..
Put your gameplay where your mouth is, and do as you did in the old days...join an empty NS server, and wait patiently until other "NS Players" join up.. Play a few rounds of 3 v3 as the server warms up and eventually enjoy some hawt NS action.
Again my personal 2 cents.. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> oh damn I missed this - but yeah - zunnie is pretty much right btw.
<!--QuoteBegin-SentrySteve+Apr 28 2005, 04:10 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (SentrySteve @ Apr 28 2005, 04:10 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Zunni+Apr 26 2005, 11:32 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Zunni @ Apr 26 2005, 11:32 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> If all the people who hate CO were actually playing games of NS, pehaps there wouldn't be so many empty NS servers (or people bored enough to come on here and complain)??
From what I've seen here, there are a tremendous number of "co-haters" on these very boards, then why aren't all the servers running NS filling up with these people?
What this says to me, is "NS purists" ARE playing CO or aren't playing any NS at all..
Put your gameplay where your mouth is, and do as you did in the old days...join an empty NS server, and wait patiently until other "NS Players" join up.. Play a few rounds of 3 v3 as the server warms up and eventually enjoy some hawt NS action.
Again my personal 2 cents.. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> oh damn I missed this - but yeah - zunnie is pretty much right btw. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> He does have a point. Last night after I switched the server to NS only I played almost 10 good games of NS, more than I've played in the entire month that the server has been NS and CO.
<!--QuoteBegin-Fangs+Apr 26 2005, 05:28 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Fangs @ Apr 26 2005, 05:28 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Yeah im not afraid to say whats on everyones lips. NS is dead for every populated NS server there are 5-8 populated CO servers. I hate CO with a passion, and I hate the CS players it brings into the game. At this point I stopped careing what others think. CO is crap its a FPS game with no depth, may the best video card/processor/script win. While NS still involves thought, sure the thought isnt a major aspect, but its still there. The day they seperate the two games in the servers config is the day I stand up and say Cheers. Untell then I want to make it known CO players are not NS players. I may sound old fashioned, but I'll be honest this problem has hovered for almost a year now but after many many hours of time spent on this issue I see NS is nothing like CO and the game of CO has almost totaly destroyed the game I love.
Flame me all you want, if CO is your game go back to CS.
I'm sure this will be locked but no amount of locking will change reality.
***Edited Tuesday Morning*** I have added proof, to rebuke the flamers and their penut gallery supporters. I spent an hour compileing this list becouse people have made false claims about server numbers by useing grossly inflated numbers arrived at by adding locked servers, hltv proxies, "fake Full" servers, and bots.
Run all the filters you like, my filter set to screen pings above 100 gets the following results (times posted).
I get <b>67</b> servers at 11:47 AM PST (45 that are not locked)
<b>27</b> servers are showing up as haveing active NS games so lets look at the numbers:
8 servers with "fakefull" or "bots" No real people 10 servers showing up as occupied, but are locked for matches or private play only. 8 of these just have 1 "player" and its a hltv client, again not real people.
so were left with 9 games of NS 3 of these games have bots in them with less then 5 real players 3 of these games are on "unoffical maps" (generaly maps with siege in the title)
leaves us with 3 games of ns but ill count the unoffical maps ones but bots do not count <u>so a total of 6 under 100 ping NS servers active.</u> Even more discouraging is the fact that three of these servers are modded and dont run true NS. (ie Guns4back2school biterange) Sadly not one Full server out of 9
I get <b>93</b> servers at 12:00 PM PST (89 that are not locked)
<b>33</b> servers are showing up as haveing active CO games so lets look at the numbers:
12 servers with "fakefull" or "bots" No real people 2 populated locked servers 1 with 1 "player" ; a hltv client, not a real person.
That leaves us with an astounding 21 games of CO 6 of these games habve bots in them 4 are on "unofficial" maps
Take away the bot servers, and you have 15 active servers of CO (howver bots in CO are more usefull, as they dont need to build.)
<u>Grand total of active CO servers 15</u> 5 Full servers and was unable to join. 2 Games spontaniously started while I as compileing this list, however I didnt count them.
I belive these numbers back up my statement of 5-8 for every one becouse i dont belive maps with sige in the name are true ns games and bots are stupid in ns they cant think or work propperly with a team. this would leave three to 15, and even then servers like guns4back2school run a very modded version of NS, that baerly plays like the official version, but I left them in my total too. I did not fudge these numbers in any way. I have no reason to make NS look dead it does that on its own power. Remember I am one of the games biggest fans I have spent countless hours playing or working on NS community projects, I'm just tired of seeing CO games suck the life from NS.
Here are screen shots showing the lists I used:<a href='http://img70.echo.cx/img70/365/nsproof0pe.gif' target='_blank'>ns numbers</a> <a href='http://img70.echo.cx/img70/6341/nsproofco5md.gif' target='_blank'>co numbers</a> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> yeah thers really too much them. should be more stargate. co sucks today
This has probably been mentioned many times, but I like CO because I suck at NS mode. I used to never play it, but now I stay on the server if it goes to an NS game just to practice a bit (plus I know who the good players are, and therefore I can join the better team to get a bit better at the game rather than dying all the time). There are a lot of CO games, but without them there wouldn't be enough people playing NS in general. Plus, CO is a great way of starting the game. When I first started, I played CO games, and now I have become as good as I can (sometimes doing well, sometimes not, but I have slow reaction times generally, so I do well based on that). I am now trying to do well on NS games, and I do prefer them generally, but I'm not that good at them, plus CO has some advantages, the main one being that it is easy to pick up and play compared to NS in my opinion.
I've droned on haven't I? I'll shut up now <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin-ChaoticMadnessSmells+Apr 28 2005, 12:58 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (ChaoticMadnessSmells @ Apr 28 2005, 12:58 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> This has probably been mentioned many times, but I like CO because I suck at NS mode. I used to never play it, but now I stay on the server if it goes to an NS game just to practice a bit (plus I know who the good players are, and therefore I can join the better team to get a bit better at the game rather than dying all the time). There are a lot of CO games, but without them there wouldn't be enough people playing NS in general. Plus, CO is a great way of starting the game. When I first started, I played CO games, and now I have become as good as I can (sometimes doing well, sometimes not, but I have slow reaction times generally, so I do well based on that). I am now trying to do well on NS games, and I do prefer them generally, but I'm not that good at them, plus CO has some advantages, the main one being that it is easy to pick up and play compared to NS in my opinion.
I've droned on haven't I? I'll shut up now <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> From what I see every day playing, this is the more common story. I play at LEAST one game of NS_ on LM every day, and I NEVER see rambos running off ignoring my orders, being indignant about thier mistakes, or whining about some aspect of the gameplay not being as good as CO. Sure, I see nubs make mistakes all the time! But news flash: NUBS HAVE BEEN MAKING MISTAKES SINCE THE BEGINING OF NS! At least this time my nubs can frigging shoot or kill a couple offending marines who try to PG rush our hive. Sure they still have alot to learn, but they are new, and that isn't co's fault.
I can't help but belive that anyone who is accosting co is just being elitist against new players ruining the odd NS game, and it's time your jerks realized that new players are a good thing, and they would be around weather or not co was here.
well you did post at 5:42 in the morning. Not a lot of servers are populated and the ones that are have low player counts. When servers have low player counts admins go to co to keep the server population alive. Nobody wants to join an ns game with 6 people in it, but people will join a co game with 6 people in it.
hmm i still haveing a little trouble using this <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--> i feel stupid <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin-Swiftspear+Apr 28 2005, 05:03 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Swiftspear @ Apr 28 2005, 05:03 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Kendrick: I bet I can name twice as many clanners that wouldn't still be in the game today then you can name people who left because of changes that made clan play better between 1.4 to 2.0. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> my post must have been long enough that you missed a point i made. else wise i forgot to put it here.
My point exactly was 2.0 was NOT pub friendly it catered to the CLANS/liegue. I dont say that fixing the clan play is bad at all.. no insted im saying there needed to be more seperation between clan play and pub play mechanicly. the people who are supposed to be you new clan members are getting driven off from ns before they get started is my point. Yes you can still find co members and recrute them, meh maybe you like them better sinc you can mold them to what you want for how ns is played.
I dont argue that 2.0 did clans a great service. the diservice 2.0 did was devide the newplayers. Do i want to go back to 1.04 to an extent, how ever i recognise great advances in what was done. Im not trivialising the fact there have been great advances.. the chabers would be the first thing i can thik of that 2.0 fixed. The problem is what happined to the feal of the game when you are NOT in a match. clans may enjoy rush rush rush all day long gotta get better. but for some of us who want to enjoy the game we start getting the strange fealing we are at work again.
also your calling the 1.04 click is funnie. have you ever played a 1.04 epic battle either you or legat? every release of any thing is ALWAYS goning to be flawed. The flaws I am how ever woried are not this is balanced vs that structure does... its the feal of the game! it changed from a pub friendly to evin pubs now feal like a warmup for the ligues thats whats NOT good.
<!--QuoteBegin-SentrySteve+Apr 28 2005, 11:10 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (SentrySteve @ Apr 28 2005, 11:10 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> oh damn I missed this - but yeah - zunnie is pretty much right btw.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
If it were that simple in most cases it wouldent be such a problem. a big part of the problem is the player count switches the type of game. it is fixable by the server/community but hasent. there has been alot of confusion and frustration surrounding the fact a decent ammount of co players dont want to play ns and most servers are set to switch between co/ns those there for ns go yay its ns now.. oops never mind all but 4 of us left for another co server. that is what is causing ALOT of the problem! i gues those who love ns havent pushed their fav server hard enoug to get enough to do ns only and or have rules changed sating co only players are not welcom as some of us want to play ns from time to time... I also know there would be a fair ammount of reluctance for server admins to want to do that, 1 it alianates one segmet or another 2 they shouldent be forced to make a decision like that.
The idea of co/ns coexisting looks good on paper but has caused some unexpected side effects that can easly cause problems/division as it is right now. co how ever is only 1 PART of the problem in the whole you can disect the problem for only so long but until you address <span style='color:gray'><b>the whole problem its not going away. </b></span> Most posts here are defeding what each person likes. I see a lot of [you suck becaus you hate co it rules..] [you hate ns you suck ....] when reading for intent. that is beond my point. my point is the manner of implimentation and how it has affected the community. i couldent care less whom is right just as long as a understanding of the true problems are realised and a reasonable solution can be implimented. I can easly see the community around ns get fractured in to 3 DEEPLY divided areas 1] clanners 2] ns pubers 3] co pubers and a great deal of dislike and ill will fester between all 3 beacuse he said she said.. quit barkin ppl I want to hear thoughts on what can be done to fix all of this mess so we ALL live happily together.. sota speek..
Im not intrested in seeing the clanners or the co bunch trivialised at all. how ever a fair ammount of the ns pubers have felt trivialised and REALY dont want to see ns be for clan only and co for every one else. Thats what I see this thread about. every one has their own ajenda so I cant speak for every one. I do know those of us from fr31 ARE here because we want this game to continue to be enjoyable. Call us crazy but we want to enjoy our freetime and we would prefer to spend it in an enjoyable NS game. To an extent that has gotten harder to do since 2.0. I applod Brackhar for swithcing it to ns only.
ChaoticMadnessSmells, come on over and enjoy a game The regulars are usually in the helping mood Im shure you can find some good tips and such. also alot of what wins ns is not lightening fast reflexes and perfect aim. Its team work and the willingnes to let your commander guid the team. suggestions usually dont hurt either way. if you see somthing that may help suggest it.. dont be shy just frendly <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--> I rarely see problems because of that. usually only from some one whos so stressed its not funnie..
Comments
Whoever told you that? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't 3.03 a later version than 3.1? <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Whoever told you that? <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't 3.03 a later version than 3.1? <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
3.1 is fabled to be one of the last client-side releases for this version of NS, which will accompany the implementation of the Nexus system. The current patches we're recieving [3.0x] are simply server-side and number tweaks to work towards a general balance.
Edit: Think of it this way; no matter how you cut it, 3.1 is greater than 3.03.
-Brackhar
This is NOT official, it is simply my random thought, from observation.
The current scheme that seems to be in use is: A.BC (and recently A.B.C).
A gets incremented for game changing version updates, Client & Server.
B gets incremented for client-level updates (which also always entail a server update as well), however in the past these versions have always end up getting really ambitious, and instead of incrementing B, they go ahead and increment A instead.
C get incremented for server-side updates.
Whenever you increment A you reset B and C to zero ('0'), whenever you increment B you reset C to zero ('0').
<!--QuoteBegin-Al Kaholic+Apr 27 2005, 05:32 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Al Kaholic @ Apr 27 2005, 05:32 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->3.1 is fabled to be <b>one</b> of the last client-side releases for this version of NS<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> (Emphasis on the word "one" is mine)
There was a feeling, at many levels, that 3.0 could potentially be the final Client release for the current engine, I think when everyone saw how HL2DM came out there was a sobering realization that sticking with HL1 for longer then anticipated might not be such a terrible idea.
Whoever told you that? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
From an interview on the Unknown worlds site, it looks like Flayra is pretty keen on getting NS:Source started soon after 3.1
So you're going to be working on NS on the HL engine after 3.1, while at the same time porting NS to source? That sounds like a lot of work.
Whoever told you that? <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
From an interview on the Unknown worlds site, it looks like Flayra is pretty keen on getting NS:Source started soon after 3.1
So you're going to be working on NS on the HL engine after 3.1, while at the same time porting NS to source? That sounds like a lot of work. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
3.1 is the last patch before work on source kicks in to full gear. Doesn't mean they won't sneak in fun little patchs after that on issues that people complain about. And who knows, source work might even give them some good ideas about what is still possible on the old engine. You may see an NS 3.2 before source takes over the whole deal.
People who leave their CAPS lock key on when writing long sentences are far worse. Dont you agree? <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Some things deserve to stand out without giving people siezures. It wasn't like I was speaking in some quasi-AIM-l337 language. By the way, I held down shift the entire time; Caps Lock is for the crippled. <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Some of you guys are getting very bitter. It sounds like you read into Fangs' post too much and it whipped you into a hating frenzy in a classic propaganda-fest. NS isn't dying, and it won't be dead until after I am physically incapable of reaching my "W" button. As long as we have fresh meat that we can attempt to work with, the game is growing.
It sounds like we all need to hit Alt-F4, locate some <i>real</i> significant others, and take a walk in the park. Things aren't as bad as they seem... and ranting on message boards won't help. By the way, I am actually going to follow my own advice, just so you don't start flaming me for hypocrisy with your insane flesh-eating forum-goer skills.
¡Hasta Luego!
Cutting a short story shorter, we'll try our best to make the gap between the last HL and the first Source release as close as possible.
As the time of this post there are the following populated servers listed in the ingame server browser.
Co: 48
NS: 22
Siege: 5
Also it is worth noting that about 2/3 of the servers were currently running Co maps (no I didn´t count them all but roughly)
So I guess you are right. And I also never really understood what the point with Co was. It´s just another teamdeathmatch thing. Like we don´t have enough of those allready. Atleast they could have made the objectives more intressting.
Oh well. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
well you did post at 5:42 in the morning. Not a lot of servers are populated and the ones that are have low player counts. When servers have low player counts admins go to co to keep the server population alive. Nobody wants to join an ns game with 6 people in it, but people will join a co game with 6 people in it. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
exactly what i was going to say.
try weekend/midday to find true numbers.
anyway, yeah. agreed to some extent. co is taking over.
I am a reg on now brachkars server originaly [CoFR] Fr31 Ns or ailen infest. I have been playing since 1.2 or earlier cant remember but early enough.. I have seen ns at its most likely peek.
The regulars on the fr31 server became "like gods" when playing on other regular pubs because at fr31 we fostered 2 things 1 a rich community and 2 GOOD sportsmanship. believe it or not no cussing/abusive language helps game play alot! having admins always playing or just a #admin call away helps. realising there are noobs and being ready to coach new players HELPS. most of these items have LEFT the ns community!
as a community the new players are NOT wanting to play the game as a team they think they can just type god in console and go and mow the compitetion. it just dont work that way. 2 We have lost a huge ammount of the old timer community who could properly teach the noobs how to be a real god like ns player. most specificaly i can think of would be players like nadsey and stoneburg there are many more examples from every ones respective servers im shure. when you have players that are emminsly good at X or every thing willing and teaching noobs who WANT to learn how to play NS not more co then you will have a thriving community again.
CO was toted as a beggeners guide a tech teacher not a full game. Co could have handled that if the devs put forth proper pre planning for it. co as is now activly invites the haxorin cs **** to come and play here. if not them then the lone awp **** who wouldent know what a team was if it bit them in the @ss. If co were used for the purpose of training people about the tech tree 1 chaber upgrades etc then it COULD be a worthwhile side line for ns rather then the current COMPITITON.
ns 2.0 screwed the community and started it down the undead path it is at today. not exclusivly nothing is exclusivy to blame. I thank Flarya for all he and the devs did up to 1.04 and for help keeping the FR31 server alive. I also may or may not articulate my intent enough to explain but am trying. I am not bashing what the devs do/did, how ever I am sternly questioning where it led the community. ns2 caused a great rift of intrest for most of the oldtimers at fr31 for several reasons. 1.04 was not perfect it was still new but it had HUGE posibilitys. we were all excited to see it grow. some of the posibilitys started maturing in 2.x how ever(as i understand it) for the clan/ligue play the pace was picked up and that started one of the bigger problems. the seperation of clan rules and classic rules needed to be made. if you design the match rules specificly for matches and leave the classic a slower pased game there would be alot of improvement in the community. The feal of the game chaned horibly once 2 came out. ifyou didnt get X done by 2 min in to the game then it was already over end of sentance! it is VERY rare for a long battle to be possible because of the nature of changes that were made for the legue play. people started getting realy up tight and bickering wars became common at the 2x release. The patches and questions of wheather the devs cared/listened to the general community also **** alot of old timers off. it seemed that they near exclusivly listened to the clan/playtesters and not the community. (wheather that is the case is irrelivent when peoples fealing get involved) Is that the devs fault I dont know its hard to say what was happining with the dev team at that time if they would care to comment I certinly would be appriciative. (agian I am not trying to attack flarya or the dev team just stating what i have seen and can conclude from that information) Co only made this problem worse. insted of teaching players how to do ... in ns it started breeding a cs llama style of play. you bring in a bunch of the "new from co" players and the whole hartedly dont understand the game get frustrated and go some where else. reason A they dont like stratigy in the first place and would never be intrested in NS. reason B they thought they understood somthing about ns but other then how damage is givven from the marine guns they now have no clue whats goin on. those 2 reasons SCREW the ns community where co is conserned. was that the intention for co i doubt it but it has not done any thing good for the NS community. it created its own community that is now activly hurting the NS community. Brackhar is quite correct when he states you have a HARD time getting a good ns game going that IS thanks to co. fr31 will often fill during a co map and then when it changes to ns the next map all but 4 ish players tend to leave for another co map. I know this because when it switches to another co map quite a fiew who just quit at map change COME BACK! that kills ns especaly when ns is set to switch back to co when the server emptys. Its not Specificly CO is damaging the community it is alot to do with CO is stealing away chances for the NS community to grow. THAT SUX!
in 1.04 fr31 you almoast had to have a reserve spot to play it was RARELY ever not full. 1 am full 6 am full noon full you name it it was usually running about 1 to 3 players under full at all times. alot of our community got REALY **** at what was happening when 2.0 came out but wanted to give it a chance because we trusted the devs would realise what was happening. we tryed to articulate our fears and problems. it appeared to no avail, now most of those palyers are done with ns. that is where i see alot of hostility. I my self and i suspect alot of other old timers would be willing to give ns a chance again if it were to go back to its 1.04 game play roots.
now for the 3rd problem is the community I have touched on this in the first two problems but it needs more its self. Co usually does not breed intrest in team play. end of sentance! when you try to get co players used to ns either you or the co player often leaves all **** off. another issue to that is the admin/regular community that breaths life to a perticular server. the community is festering and brooding and seems now to refuse to help its self as well. you as a community must be WILLING to put forth some effert to fix this problem. IT starts at YOUR server. you as a regular and very knolagable ns player TEACH noobs how to play well. That is how fr31 weathered som much before it started to fall appart. the preasure of ns2 got to alot of our regulars and made them a bit bitter and snappy to player X. why because they couldent have FUN at the game they now had to win. to win you had to do this by .. and that before ... etc and if no one listened you were screwed in 2 min.
We had our own llamas but we as a community policed the server. I have not had administrative access there ever how ever i have had a fiew peopel banned/kicked. why because they were being little shits. that server you DONT cuss. are we willing to allow GOOD players some leanance yes, alfa can attest to that. Hes a lella good player but had a mouth... we did our best to fix that but evin he got baned if i remember for language. Another reason we did well is we were a relaxed community there to have fun not have a clan match 24/7 server rules were in place and mostly clearly followed. the nubs got bounced rather quickly id say in 10 min or less no matter the time. that made a huge difference. was that a big admin burden yes and no. all the regulars would make shure if they couldent quickly bann the offender he was isolated and kep out of play. if he was being a rambo punk the com would give his position away for the regs to go make it clear we did NOT appriciate his presance. the fact that the server was kep clean of tards and welcomed noobs makes all the difference. we had a rule you have to ask to com/gorg. we quite often allowed noob coms and we would help guide them through what and why to build/get. THAT keeps the game going.
NO one area is to blame for this problem we see now. the devs could have done... the community could have don... but we havent so now this **** sucks!
on a side note i wish i was playing on fr31 one of the times flarya was there to see how he plays. I would also appriciate his/the dev teams comments on their side of the fence. I know i dont know what happined in 2.x because we did not have to much of the devs prespective. I cant say what they did wrong with that if any thing.
I can give only my opinons and suppositions. My biggest concern with ns since 1.04 has been the full time legue feal but i dont know if that was changeable or what. is that the cause of the problem? NO just one failing in a game dying as a whole. is co to blame? Yes and NO and its not nessasarly directly because co is this but quite abit about how co caused a splintering in the ns community and how it CAN activly stop ns from happining. the fact that player #'s either allow or not ns is where alot of the co friction is coming from evin if people dont nessasarly realise that.
there has been a lot of crap on this thread about you whiners aginst/for co GET OVER YOUR SELF if you have a playtester/contributer icon WHO CARES. certinly not I that doesnt make you specal for much of any thing! you are another player like me, maybe better maybe not. thats ALL Discuss this problem not whine and fight, THAT is where the problem is. you refuse to stop defending your self and or position . LOOK at what is happening and CALMLY look in to explaning your position. dont attack so and so for saying .... its not your place to attack how ever if you are smart enough to bring a VALID point CLEARLY to the table you do far more for your self AND the community. As i said before I have tryed my best to EXPLAIN what i have seen not accuse. believe me to an extent i want to blame and have improperly worded what I have sad. I have problems expressing exactly what i feal. I just hope this comes close enough to allow some of YOU to understand the problem as i see it. I hope it will get you thinking and you can either see my point as right or see a better reason and explain it where i can not to that the problem DOES get fixed.
I miss the game play we were afforded in 1.04 you havent seen a long battle til you have a 8+hr round. I quite enjoyed those we had probably atleast 1 a month that lasted over 4 hrs. It wasent about winning or loosing it was all about what happined during the game. The fact that nadsy could lerk out a 2nd hive after 1 hr and we make a come back made the game so intresting. is that clan play no but thats part of the point is clan play good for pubs not realy. the learning needs to be done in a more relaxed environment. then when one is good they choose to seek out a clan whom plays more competitivly. any more i dont see any learning attitude. also how ns3 has affected things i cant say as i stopped playing after co caused so many problems. co has potential to do what the devs origanly siad it was for ns can come back but EVERY one must choose to give it a chance and DISCUSS the problem clearly to fix it. if you need to flam go to cs where its appriciated more.
also the statement some one made is true about the general cs community starting to play ns/co they are more jumppy about hacks and such. after being off ns for 6 months i came back and hoped on a pub. I sucked compaired to how i played at fr31 before the break. but got quickly blamed of cheating because i still could mop up a non team work team. I am not a god at ns how ever I have had the benifit of traning under a quaker who has easly goten 16th in the national quake events. i can turn on a dime and hunt with the best evin when rusty. in the earlyer days of ns people would have watched me closely to see how i ate a team alive rather then oh hes just a cheeter... special/pistol hacking caused that? i dubt it but dont know. lil script kiddies from cs cause that? not nessasarly but they probably have upped the tension in that area. how ever diligent admins and regulars CAN clear up alot of that problem. so just about all aspects of this problem are quite the community's fault/problem take ns back look deep in to how the game is now played and see about giving a SOLUTION not a ****. my thoughts about a solution if you need them spelld out quickly are
1) fix co so it is not competing for ns's community. make it a true live traning mission not a game of its ownlike it is now.
2) look in to what balances need to be made to ns so that clan and pub play are seperated. calm the pub play a little bit make it some what more forgiving of inital mistakes ease the pressure to win win win.
3) we as the community need to start working on showing the cs/co community here what makes ns, ns and if they want to leave for a rambo shootem up then good luck to them. if they realy enjoy the teamwork and thought behind what ns used to be all the better
sorry for the bits i rambled but im trying
As a bit of ns history me, a civilian, Keyser, Magitek, and Dirm all came from the fr31ns server.
As a bit of ns history me, a civilian, Keyser, Magitek, and Dirm all came from the fr31ns server. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
quite right and im shure many others have not been mentioned that are worthy...
*** Before you start thinking I'm just a nub that joined at 3.0, I've been here since the day before 1.04 came out. I love NS, but I think it needs some work before it can compare with Co. <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--> ***
My 2 cents...
*** Before you start thinking I'm just a nub that joined at 3.0, I've been here since the day before 1.04 came out. I love NS, but I think it needs some work before it can compare with Co. <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--> ***
My 2 cents... <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
thats where my point about v2.0 and how the community reacts comes in. I agree if you have to be perfect and this and that in the pubs **** it. that seems to have changed atlest for fr31 when v2.0 came out. I cant say for every one as each community has its own style but i made a big difference from what i saw to ourse. The rush rush rush started fealing more like work and less like a game
slipknotkthx it can be a blessing or a curse. If all they want is a replacement for cs or somthing then yes it will hurt the community. the stratigy well be removed and replaced with gratuitous kills being the only driving factor. one of the great things about ns is the fact you have a huge ammount of stratigy available in a fps. battlezone is like this to a extent, ctf is like ns to a extent as well. you have the option as a engeneer to fix devicits in our defense. etc but thats my fealing about ns. I see the problem not so much about new players joining co but 1 confusion as to why co is here.
2 how it hurts those who want to play ns. yes if you tweek the configs you never go to co but alot of people arent in the mood to change more then basic settings. often what you start with is what you will always like, human nature. if you start them with somthing so much like cs then they probably wont be intrested in ns its to alien to them evin though the looks are the same. I easily gets to confusing trying to learn the game again because of a new game style between ns and co. there are also community problems as Brownovon said nslearn and the such are not being utalised well. is it because no one suggests/shows the noobs to ns hay here is a cool place to learn. is it because we as people hat to rtfm? i dont know. I see stoopid moves by noobs who dont want to read the motd/rules and or the manual and vets who chew them up and spit them out because of ther noobish ness. I have seen people on fr31 go both ways those whom calmy approched the subject often brought another noob in to being a decent player while those who snaped at them often soured the noob. being the com sounds real fun but is VERY intimidating. With inteligent rules and understanding that can be solved. vets helping those noob coms through the map makes all the difference. and noob coms WILLING to listen to the vets is just as benificial. the most benifical thing is marines and aliens that listen to whats going on. Evin if I dont agree with the com I tell him hay thats dumb and go and do it any ways. if you always did things the way you knew thay wored you would never find out a new stratigy. not all strats can win but you never know. helping a blatent noob also helps you though. thats where sportsmanship comes in
[misses some things about 1.x days]
I remember when acid rockets did recognizable damage, when FR31 would be full at 3 am, I remember the 1 game I actually commed and whooped up on depsite my lack of voice comm, I remember when CO did not exist. CO is a problem to people who enjoy NS mode. Here's how I see it. CO will teach you the very basics: Marines shoot, skulks run on walls, lerks fly, fades jump, onos are tanks with horns. You need to kill this, that or the other thing to win. Etc.
Someone who has only experienced CO mode doesn't know the first thing about NS mode. They rambo off like normal, expecting that it's ok. They don't really understand the RTS element, but they're not worried. They don't understand the tech tree, they don't understand that they have to listen to the comm, they don't understand that if you don't do X by Y time that you're basically finished barring any major mistakes from the other side. They get the living hell chewed out of them by their team and they don't even kno what just happened. They're confused, they're frustrated, and they got ppl breathing down their necks for not knowing everyting about the game. As they see it, this sucks. They do not have fun playing NS because of the way they get treated and how badly they lose at it. They don't want to take the time to learn if they're just going to get abused and beaten every time.
That's what CO has done. It has made new players afraid of NS mode. And can you blame them? Nobody would want to put up with that. Everything is just much too fast and calculated for the average player who hasn't been around the NS block a couple of times. They don't know the maps by heart, they don't know strategies when they see them being played, they don't know why the comm can't simply give them a weapon, they don't understand how it could be important to save a few seconds by not humping the armory after every spawn.
Instead of beind a stepping stool to NS, CO has become a Lazy-Boy chair. With a $5,000 massage option on it. With heated cushions. And a personal butler named "Clemens". They get comfortable and find that CO is fun for them because they don't have to worry about a lot of things like what your team mates are doing, what the comm needs YOU to do, etc. It's just needing to worry about MY kills and MY upgrades. And sorry for the marine side bias. It's weird because I'm a better alien.
Anyway, I guess the point is why learn something stressful when you're having fun right now? And there inlies the problem. A lot of players never really learn the fun of NS mode because they don't put in the few weeks it takes to get a firm grasp of it all.
And now for the nostalgia.
Lesse. 4 hour games on FR31 in 1.04, aLfa's evil video card, stoneburg's minerush of doom (chem trans lock down ohnoes), Nadsy the battle gorge, Jim (one man team as 'rine OR skulk - or anything for that matter), the railway of death on NS_nothing (above via - 1 PG, 1 TF and the entire length of BOTH rails with turrets <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->). I'm sure I'm forgetting a lot, but if I wrote everything I remember from the FR31 glory days, I'd be here all night <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo--> So, I guess I'll leave you with some parting words. Even if you do enjoy CO, take some time and work to learn NS. Don't just leave the server when it changes to NS. To those who already know NS well, don't give up playing NS for CO just because games go to hell because ppl don't know what they're doing. Coach them and try to teach them the ropes. I was thrilled when the FR31 crew helped me learn the basics of NS. Give another player the same help, and we might be able to actually have good games of NS again. Until then, I'll be trying to get a spot on FR31, as always.
-Karrde-
Sorry <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo--> its just been a long time since I have heard someone bring up this type of argument.
Ok, here's the way I see it. The fun you had playing 1.4 is never going to come back. After the 60 millionth time running through hera you learn all the spots, you know all the tricks, you have done them all before yourself, and the game just isn't going to be atmospheric any more no matter what version you are playing.
I have been told independantly that EVERY version of NS was the best version ever. Seems as if everyone cool has said at one point in time that 1.4 was the best version of NS ever, but I have also heard alot of clanners claim that 2.0 is the best version of NS ever. Personally I think you all are just deluding yourself with pleasant reminissions. 3.0 is the most feature heavy version of NS to date, and to top it off, this game is well rounded in terms of DM style realism and damn fun to play. You don't remember the boring games you had back in the day, unless you have already left NS, you problably don't remember much negitive about the game 2 years back.
I jumped into this game early 2.0, way back when when we were all still playing on WON. I still remember joining my first game and not being able to figure out how to buy weapons (ouch). I remember everyone complaining about the HA train being overpowered, and I remember regging some reletively backwater clan server and being proud of my record high healspray kill figure. I remember how insanely fun this game was back in the day, but I still haven't forgotten the sheer ammount of forward progress we have seen since then.
Kendrick: I bet I can name twice as many clanners that wouldn't still be in the game today then you can name people who left because of changes that made clan play better between 1.4 to 2.0.
2.0 seemed to kill off alot of pub comunities, but say what you will, I have seen a HUGE ammount of revival in both the higher end areas of clan play and the skill base of classic pubs all round post 3.0. TBH I can't help but attribute to classic MAJOR growth to every aspect of NS, and I VERY rarely see examples of that highly complained about rambo mentality coming out of newish co players. If co teaches new players anything, it teaches them that if they rambo off alone they will be slayed by vets like you and me, and the next time they rambo off we will be a fade in thier face rather then just a skulk. I see more useless co players who sit in base and watch other people build the IPs then I see over enthusiasitc players who rambo off where I don't fusking want them. Granted there is alot of things wrong with the current pub base, but a few games on LM or NS vets server and they quickly figure out the groove of quality play on a good classic map.
I have had my first game of NS shortly after 1.4 came out, so I lived those days of glory. Indeed, 1.4 was great. But it was also fundamentially flawed. The games were absolutely similar every time. It was all about locking down 2 hives and JP/HMG rush.
Every game. If that was accomplished, aliens died a slow and boring death. If the rines blew it,they were overun by fade onslough and acid spamming. as soon as Hive 2 was ready.
On a sidenote:
I stumbled across NS coincidentially playing some DoD (damn, that mod was good back then)
My first games were desastrous and it was really hard not to become repelled by the elitist behavior I encountered on ANY server I joined. If there is anything really harmfull to NS, its not CO (albeit I agree that it should be changed to more closely reseble the game mechanics of NS) but the communities disruptive behavior toward new players.
Not everybody is ramboing off because he's an ignorant bugger. Ever imagined that he doesn't know the map and is confused? Ever imagined that many seasoned comms don't give proper WP anymore but just yell, "GO THERE!!! ONOS!! PHASE NOW YOU NUBLET?"
Ever thought about the possibility that the newbie does not know what a damn phase is or how how to use it?
I remember, when I first asked how o build something, I was answered "press E you
flipping n00b". I was quite tempted to deinstall on the very instance, but I gave it a chance.
I dont't want to know how many new players the mod lost due to the steep learning curve and elitist bickering.
[misses some things about 1.x days] <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
We're still around Ahnteis, although our IP has changed.
Oh, and Karrde:
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Instead of beind a stepping stool to NS, CO has become a Lazy-Boy chair. With a $5,000 massage option on it. With heated cushions. And a personal butler named "Clemens".<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Best. Quote. Ever.
-Brackhar
From what I've seen here, there are a tremendous number of "co-haters" on these very boards, then why aren't all the servers running NS filling up with these people?
What this says to me, is "NS purists" ARE playing CO or aren't playing any NS at all..
Put your gameplay where your mouth is, and do as you did in the old days...join an empty NS server, and wait patiently until other "NS Players" join up.. Play a few rounds of 3 v3 as the server warms up and eventually enjoy some hawt NS action.
Again my personal 2 cents.. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
oh damn I missed this - but yeah - zunnie is pretty much right btw.
From what I've seen here, there are a tremendous number of "co-haters" on these very boards, then why aren't all the servers running NS filling up with these people?
What this says to me, is "NS purists" ARE playing CO or aren't playing any NS at all..
Put your gameplay where your mouth is, and do as you did in the old days...join an empty NS server, and wait patiently until other "NS Players" join up.. Play a few rounds of 3 v3 as the server warms up and eventually enjoy some hawt NS action.
Again my personal 2 cents.. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
oh damn I missed this - but yeah - zunnie is pretty much right btw. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
He does have a point. Last night after I switched the server to NS only I played almost 10 good games of NS, more than I've played in the entire month that the server has been NS and CO.
-Brackhar
Flame me all you want, if CO is your game go back to CS.
I'm sure this will be locked but no amount of locking will change reality.
***Edited Tuesday Morning***
I have added proof, to rebuke the flamers and their penut gallery supporters. I spent an hour compileing this list becouse people have made false claims about server numbers by useing grossly inflated numbers arrived at by adding locked servers, hltv proxies, "fake Full" servers, and bots.
Run all the filters you like, my filter set to screen pings above 100 gets the following results (times posted).
I get <b>67</b> servers at 11:47 AM PST (45 that are not locked)
<b>27</b> servers are showing up as haveing active NS games so lets look at the numbers:
8 servers with "fakefull" or "bots" No real people
10 servers showing up as occupied, but are locked for matches or private play only.
8 of these just have 1 "player" and its a hltv client, again not real people.
so were left with 9 games of NS
3 of these games have bots in them with less then 5 real players
3 of these games are on "unoffical maps" (generaly maps with siege in the title)
leaves us with 3 games of ns but ill count the unoffical maps ones but bots do not count
<u>so a total of 6 under 100 ping NS servers active.</u>
Even more discouraging is the fact that three of these servers are modded and dont run true NS. (ie Guns4back2school biterange)
Sadly not one Full server out of 9
I get <b>93</b> servers at 12:00 PM PST (89 that are not locked)
<b>33</b> servers are showing up as haveing active CO games so lets look at the numbers:
12 servers with "fakefull" or "bots" No real people
2 populated locked servers
1 with 1 "player" ; a hltv client, not a real person.
That leaves us with an astounding 21 games of CO
6 of these games habve bots in them
4 are on "unofficial" maps
Take away the bot servers, and you have 15 active servers of CO
(howver bots in CO are more usefull, as they dont need to build.)
<u>Grand total of active CO servers 15</u>
5 Full servers and was unable to join.
2 Games spontaniously started while I as compileing this list, however I didnt count them.
I belive these numbers back up my statement of 5-8 for every one becouse i dont belive maps with sige in the name are true ns games and bots are stupid in ns they cant think or work propperly with a team. this would leave three to 15, and even then servers like guns4back2school run a very modded version of NS, that baerly plays like the official version, but I left them in my total too. I did not fudge these numbers in any way. I have no reason to make NS look dead it does that on its own power. Remember I am one of the games biggest fans I have spent countless hours playing or working on NS community projects, I'm just tired of seeing CO games suck the life from NS.
Here are screen shots showing the lists I used:<a href='http://img70.echo.cx/img70/365/nsproof0pe.gif' target='_blank'>ns numbers</a> <a href='http://img70.echo.cx/img70/6341/nsproofco5md.gif' target='_blank'>co numbers</a> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
yeah thers really too much them. should be more stargate. co sucks today
I've droned on haven't I? I'll shut up now <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
I've droned on haven't I? I'll shut up now <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
From what I see every day playing, this is the more common story. I play at LEAST one game of NS_ on LM every day, and I NEVER see rambos running off ignoring my orders, being indignant about thier mistakes, or whining about some aspect of the gameplay not being as good as CO. Sure, I see nubs make mistakes all the time! But news flash: NUBS HAVE BEEN MAKING MISTAKES SINCE THE BEGINING OF NS! At least this time my nubs can frigging shoot or kill a couple offending marines who try to PG rush our hive. Sure they still have alot to learn, but they are new, and that isn't co's fault.
I can't help but belive that anyone who is accosting co is just being elitist against new players ruining the odd NS game, and it's time your jerks realized that new players are a good thing, and they would be around weather or not co was here.
Yes yes i agree with him
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my post must have been long enough that you missed a point i made. else wise i forgot to put it here.
My point exactly was 2.0 was NOT pub friendly it catered to the CLANS/liegue. I dont say that fixing the clan play is bad at all.. no insted im saying there needed to be more seperation between clan play and pub play mechanicly. the people who are supposed to be you new clan members are getting driven off from ns before they get started is my point. Yes you can still find co members and recrute them, meh maybe you like them better sinc you can mold them to what you want for how ns is played.
I dont argue that 2.0 did clans a great service. the diservice 2.0 did was devide the newplayers. Do i want to go back to 1.04 to an extent, how ever i recognise great advances in what was done. Im not trivialising the fact there have been great advances.. the chabers would be the first thing i can thik of that 2.0 fixed. The problem is what happined to the feal of the game when you are NOT in a match. clans may enjoy rush rush rush all day long gotta get better. but for some of us who want to enjoy the game we start getting the strange fealing we are at work again.
also your calling the 1.04 click is funnie. have you ever played a 1.04 epic battle either you or legat? every release of any thing is ALWAYS goning to be flawed. The flaws I am how ever woried are not this is balanced vs that structure does... its the feal of the game! it changed from a pub friendly to evin pubs now feal like a warmup for the ligues thats whats NOT good.
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<!--QuoteBegin-SentrySteve+Apr 28 2005, 11:10 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (SentrySteve @ Apr 28 2005, 11:10 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->
oh damn I missed this - but yeah - zunnie is pretty much right btw.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
If it were that simple in most cases it wouldent be such a problem. a big part of the problem is the player count switches the type of game. it is fixable by the server/community but hasent. there has been alot of confusion and frustration surrounding the fact a decent ammount of co players dont want to play ns and most servers are set to switch between co/ns those there for ns go yay its ns now.. oops never mind all but 4 of us left for another co server. that is what is causing ALOT of the problem! i gues those who love ns havent pushed their fav server hard enoug to get enough to do ns only and or have rules changed sating co only players are not welcom as some of us want to play ns from time to time... I also know there would be a fair ammount of reluctance for server admins to want to do that, 1 it alianates one segmet or another 2 they shouldent be forced to make a decision like that.
The idea of co/ns coexisting looks good on paper but has caused some unexpected side effects that can easly cause problems/division as it is right now. co how ever is only 1 PART of the problem in the whole you can disect the problem for only so long but until you address <span style='color:gray'><b>the whole problem its not going away. </b></span> Most posts here are defeding what each person likes. I see a lot of [you suck becaus you hate co it rules..] [you hate ns you suck ....] when reading for intent. that is beond my point. my point is the manner of implimentation and how it has affected the community. i couldent care less whom is right just as long as a understanding of the true problems are realised and a reasonable solution can be implimented. I can easly see the community around ns get fractured in to 3 DEEPLY divided areas 1] clanners 2] ns pubers 3] co pubers and a great deal of dislike and ill will fester between all 3 beacuse he said she said.. quit barkin ppl I want to hear thoughts on what can be done to fix all of this mess so we ALL live happily together.. sota speek..
Im not intrested in seeing the clanners or the co bunch trivialised at all. how ever a fair ammount of the ns pubers have felt trivialised and REALY dont want to see ns be for clan only and co for every one else. Thats what I see this thread about. every one has their own ajenda so I cant speak for every one. I do know those of us from fr31 ARE here because we want this game to continue to be enjoyable. Call us crazy but we want to enjoy our freetime and we would prefer to spend it in an enjoyable NS game. To an extent that has gotten harder to do since 2.0. I applod Brackhar for swithcing it to ns only.
ChaoticMadnessSmells, come on over and enjoy a game The regulars are usually in the helping mood Im shure you can find some good tips and such. also alot of what wins ns is not lightening fast reflexes and perfect aim. Its team work and the willingnes to let your commander guid the team. suggestions usually dont hurt either way. if you see somthing that may help suggest it.. dont be shy just frendly <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--> I rarely see problems because of that. usually only from some one whos so stressed its not funnie..