Actually, I don't think that's what Skulkbait meant. What Skulkbait meant, (all according to my interpretation) is this:
I leave you alone, you leave me alone. I do not believe in your religion, and I demand that your religion does not influence my life. I, on the other hand, will refrain from poiting out whatever I perceive to be glaring mistakes and contradictions in your religion.
Skulkbait's not advocating censorship, he's requesting that the overzealous preachers limit themselves to preaching to those that actually WANT to be preached to.
In reply to Snidely: According to <a href='http://www.4degreez.com/misc/dante-inferno-test.mv' target='_blank'>this test</a> (which may or may not be accurate), I am headed for the first circle of hell. I could imagine far, far worse fates.
Just emigrate to France , where nobody but the occasional foreign loony preacher tries to shove religion down your throat <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
@lolfighter : amateur , I've been creeping around the City of Dis for quite a long while... extreme heresy ftw <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
moultanoCreator of ns_shiva.Join Date: 2002-12-14Member: 10806Members, NS1 Playtester, Contributor, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Gold, NS2 Community Developer, Pistachionauts
<!--QuoteBegin-Pepe Muffassa+Feb 18 2005, 09:56 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Pepe Muffassa @ Feb 18 2005, 09:56 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I sure hope not - our our founding fathers would turn over in their graves.
(this is not an argument that they were christians - it is an argument that such a day would mark a loss of freedom of speach, and a loss of freedom of religion - both of which skulkbait seems to advocate.) <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> All he's advocating is for people to be polite to eachother.
<!--QuoteBegin-lolfighter+Feb 18 2005, 10:26 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (lolfighter @ Feb 18 2005, 10:26 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> In reply to Snidely: According to <a href='http://www.4degreez.com/misc/dante-inferno-test.mv' target='_blank'>this test</a> (which may or may not be accurate), I am headed for the first circle of hell. I could imagine far, far worse fates. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Apparently I'm going to the 7th circle of Hell, where the violent, the warmongerers, the usurers, and the suicidal go. Yep, that describes my personality: violent, warmongering, greedy, and suicidal. :rollseyes:
It's confusing, because the only sexual "deviancy" I checked was "sex before marriage", I checked most of the helpful stuff, and about the only violent things I put down was that I play violent video games, and that I lose my temper. So......yeah..... <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
If it's worth anything, I'm also a high match for the 2nd circle of hell. <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--> Never thought that that could be used as consolation.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->The river Styx runs through this level of Hell, and in it are punished the wrathful and the gloomy. <b>The former are forever lashing out at each other in anger, furious and naked, tearing each other piecemeal with their teeth. The latter are gurgling in the black mud, slothful and sullen, withdrawn from the world.</b> Their lamentations bubble to the surface as they try to repeat a doleful hymn, though with unbroken words they cannot say it. Because you lived a cruel, vindictive and hateful life, you meet your fate in the Styx.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Forget heaven. This rocks!
I got really high scores on 4, 5, 6 and 8 somehow.
Oh dude, i'm in the City of Dis, where the HERETICS go :O. It's messed up, Jezpuh is in level 5 and he's much worse than me. I also got high on the 9th level, 2nd level and 3rd level :S.
<!--QuoteBegin-Pepe Muffassa+Feb 18 2005, 09:56 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Pepe Muffassa @ Feb 18 2005, 09:56 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-SkulkBait+Feb 17 2005, 11:56 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (SkulkBait @ Feb 17 2005, 11:56 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-AvengerX+Feb 17 2005, 11:47 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (AvengerX @ Feb 17 2005, 11:47 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> If you don't like the old testiment god (even tho he's allways been the same god) then just don't bother with him. and don't worry bout something that doesn't exist. and let the rightous get on with their good lives <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Tell you what. On the day the Christians stop trying to push their religion on me (pushing for "intelegent design" to be taught in schools, referencing the bible in futile attempts to win arguments, amending the constitution to discriminate against homosexuals, ect) then I will stop pointing out the flaws with their ideals and keep my religion to myself too. On that day I will let them believe whatever psycho nonsense they want to believe, despite all the evidence to the contrary. On that day, when I can turn on AM radio and not hear some evangelist thumpin' his bible and proclaiming that something is wrong because he read it in a book, I will shut up. On that day, when they stop murdering abortion doctors and protesting aids marches with their ignorant-as-all-**** "aids cures f*gs" signs, I will be happy. Something tells me that day will never come. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> I sure hope not - our our founding fathers would turn over in their graves.
(this is not an argument that they were christians - it is an argument that such a day would mark a loss of freedom of speach, and a loss of freedom of religion - both of which skulkbait seems to advocate.) <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> As others have said, you're totally misunderstanding. Its not that I want government to step in and shut people up, its that I want christians to shut themselves up and leave the rest of us the hell alone. Is it too much to ask that you keep your religion to yourself?
And Sky, damn dude I'm jelous (and disapointed in myself). I only managed the 5th level of hell.
well people allways like to spread what they think is good, sharing is caring. look at Ideologies like Communism and stuff like that... people just tend to sprad stuff like that, why would christianity be any diffrent?
<!--QuoteBegin-AvengerX+Feb 18 2005, 05:47 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (AvengerX @ Feb 18 2005, 05:47 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> well people allways like to spread what they think is good, sharing is caring. look at Ideologies like Communism and stuff like that... people just tend to sprad stuff like that, why would christianity be any diffrent? <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Because you do it all the time and never shut up about it! And then you try and push it in our schools! And into law! And seem to bring it up whenever you get the chance, and I'll tell you what, its annoying as all hell! Not to mention the ignorant and stupid things that some of you do, like KILL DOCTORS and PROTEST AIDS MARCHES and THREATENING VIOLENCE TO MAKE PEOPLE CONVERT (see link, page or so ago). Its one thing to say to a friend "hey you know, I have these ideas about God, want to hear them?" and its annother to get on the radio or TV and shout "Homosexuals and Atheists are ruining this country! We need a constitutional amendment to limit the freedom of these evil doers and make our country pure again! We must force our beliefs onto others through the schools!".
I can understand your frustration. but Christians must find it annoying to use the interenet and be flooded with pop-ups for Porn or sex sites... and they might get annoyed with PRO-**** marches, or KKK cross burnings, stuff like that probly bugs Christians. but thats kinda what this country is about. everyone has the freedom to say what they want. but I agree with you that voilent acts agaisnt others in any form should not be torolrated and should be stopped as much as possible.
if you don't want to state your views or have other people state thiers. then move to another country where people don't have thoose freedoms, then your problems might be solved
<!--QuoteBegin-AvengerX+Feb 18 2005, 06:06 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (AvengerX @ Feb 18 2005, 06:06 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I can understand your frustration. but Christians must find it annoying to use the interenet and be flooded with pop-ups for Porn or sex sites... and they might get annoyed with PRO-**** marches, or KKK cross burnings, stuff like that probly bugs Christians. but thats kinda what this country is about. everyone has the freedom to say what they want. but I agree with you that voilent acts agaisnt others in any form should not be torolrated and should be stopped as much as possible.
if you don't want to state your views or have other people state thiers. then move to another country where people don't have thoose freedoms, then your problems might be solved <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> As I've said before, its not that I want government involvement in shutting these people up, I just wish they'd shut themselves up. Its like those **** who take cell phones and babies into theatres and restauraunts and what have you. Its a matter of common courtosy.
Besides, aren't you the one who was telling me that I should just shut up and go on my merry way? Why doesn't the same apply to you?
1- Cell phone/baby bringers are often not thinking of others and I don't think thats good at all.
2- over zeal in Religous (or really any views for that matter) are more destructive then they are productive
3- taking away people's freedom to CHOOSE their religoin/beliefs is bad, people need their agency.
4- Cruel or negative treatment to others simple because they have serperate beliefs is not good, and I know that I can be accused of that so I'll admit that thats a problem I personally need to work on.
but here's where I disagree with you
1- Peacefull protest and political movements agaisnt issues (IE abortion, **** marrige, wars) are totally intitled to people in thier rights. if they want to state whats on their mind they should. but I also believe there is a time and place for that.
2- Spreading religoin threw means like missionaries, friends suggestions, and stuff like that is ok. while I don't think TV adds should run "KILL THE PAGEN-SCUM!" and so on and so forth.
<!--QuoteBegin-AvengerX+Feb 18 2005, 06:18 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (AvengerX @ Feb 18 2005, 06:18 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> 1- Peacefull protest and political movements agaisnt issues (IE abortion, **** marrige, wars) are totally intitled to people in thier rights. if they want to state whats on their mind they should. but I also believe there is a time and place for that.
<!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> *cough*<!--QuoteBegin-skulkbait+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (skulkbait)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Not to mention the ignorant and stupid things that some of you do, like KILL DOCTORS and PROTEST AIDS MARCHES and THREATENING VIOLENCE TO MAKE PEOPLE CONVERT (see link, page or so ago). <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> These things have happened Avenger. It's pretty much a fact that there are some really crazy christians in this country. (oooh alliteration) I mean, seriously, I've seen interviews about abortion issues and such with people from the deep South, and every time someone comes on spouting on about how the Jesus loves him for hating baby-killers I actually contemplate whether or not punching the television would cause him any bodily harm, or at least smack some sense into him. This stuff is just accepted in our country; you can hate on these groups as much as you want as long as you can fall back on "I hate them because I'm Christian" or something. <!--emo&::marine::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/marine.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='marine.gif' /><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin-AvengerX+Feb 18 2005, 06:18 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (AvengerX @ Feb 18 2005, 06:18 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> 3- taking away people's freedom to CHOOSE their religoin/beliefs is bad, people need their agency. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Again, I'm not advocating such a thing. And never have. So shut up about it.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> 1- Peacefull protest and political movements agaisnt issues (IE abortion, **** marrige, wars) are totally intitled to people in thier rights. if they want to state whats on their mind they should. but I also believe there is a time and place for that.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Sure, but they should at least be slightly informed about what they're protesting, not just doing it because "Homosexuals are bad m'kay! and AIDS is their cure! So don't march for an AIDS cure!". You can't seriously believe that these people have a legitimate problem with an AIDS march can you?
<!--QuoteBegin-SkulkBait+Feb 18 2005, 09:48 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (SkulkBait @ Feb 18 2005, 09:48 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-AvengerX+Feb 18 2005, 06:18 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (AvengerX @ Feb 18 2005, 06:18 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> 3- taking away people's freedom to CHOOSE their religoin/beliefs is bad, people need their agency. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Again, I'm not advocating such a thing. And never have. So shut up about it. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Dammit Skulkbait he was agreeing with you <!--emo&::marine::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/marine.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='marine.gif' /><!--endemo--> He meant that forcing religion on people is bad, because that would be taking away their freedom of choice and such.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--><!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> 1- Peacefull protest and political movements agaisnt issues (IE abortion, **** marrige, wars) are totally intitled to people in thier rights. if they want to state whats on their mind they should. but I also believe there is a time and place for that.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Sure, but they should at least be slightly informed about what they're protesting, not just doing it because "Homosexuals are bad m'kay! and AIDS is their cure! So don't march for an AIDS cure!". You can't seriously believe that these people have a legitimate problem with an AIDS march can you?<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Just a thought, if you were to sit at your computer and complain all day about all the instances of ignorance and stupidity found every day on this Earth, your fingers would fall off. People are dumb, it's just it's easier to notice stupidity in big loud groups, like religions. I prefer to laugh at it then get angry. <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin-Sky+Feb 18 2005, 07:16 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Sky @ Feb 18 2005, 07:16 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> [/QUOTE] *cough*<!--QuoteBegin-skulkbait+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (skulkbait)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Not to mention the ignorant and stupid things that some of you do, like KILL DOCTORS and PROTEST AIDS MARCHES and THREATENING VIOLENCE TO MAKE PEOPLE CONVERT (see link, page or so ago). <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> These things have happened Avenger. It's pretty much a fact that there are some really crazy christians in this country. (oooh alliteration) I mean, seriously, I've seen interviews about abortion issues and such with people from the deep South, and every time someone comes on spouting on about how the Jesus loves him for hating baby-killers I actually contemplate whether or not punching the television would cause him any bodily harm, or at least smack some sense into him. This stuff is just accepted in our country; you can hate on these groups as much as you want as long as you can fall back on "I hate them because I'm Christian" or something. <!--emo&::marine::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/marine.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='marine.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> I know that they happen. and they need to be stopped. but just cuz a few crazy christians are running wild doesn't mean there all bad. heck, if members of any faction I belonged to were commiting violent crimes I'd want them to be brought to justice. no matter how pure their motives may be in there radical little minds, they still can't justify the acts which they comit.
and the thing about most people being stupid. thats pretty true. rule of thumb if you run into another person in the world. odds are the'll be a moron
Problem is AvengerX, there are not just a few crazy christians. When they decide to protest they do it in the dozens, I don't know about you but a few dozen isn't exactly a "few". Although it might not be as bad in some towns, mine doesn't even have a planned parenthood because of how crazy they get up here. They actually call it something else, and even though I am sure no one lives here but me, there are many lurkers who might want to know the name <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
The problem with this argument is that we're all using relative terms to the human existence. When your referring to "God" regardless of belief in him or not, you're referring to an entity that is above such terms.
Can the number 1 be bad or good? No, its because its number, to relate emotions or actions to it would be odd and incomprehensible. The same would apply to God since the human terms of emotion, morality simply don't apply.
Let me go into some simple ideas of God and creation. When talking about creation of the universe or reality for that matter, you can't not talk about physics.
Personally I like physics in religeous topics because it gives you a broader view on the very ideas of creation and how infintismal we are in the scheme of things.
Basically the idea of older school physics where that there were two schools of physics, neither of which agreed with each other. Einstein himself had issues with this.
It was thought that in order for one to be true, the other had to be false, that is until recently.
In comes string theory. It combines the two previous theories into one, cohesive theory, but in order for it to work, it has to exist in a 11 dimensional universe.
Meaning, that while we live in three dimensional space (with time being the fourth) there are as many as 8 more dimensions we are completely unaware of.
<a href='http://www.physicsforums.com/archive/t-5544_More_than_3_dimensions?.html' target='_blank'>http://www.physicsforums.com/archive/t-554...imensions?.html</a> <a href='http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/elegant/dimensions.html' target='_blank'>http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/elegant/dimensions.html</a> Thats an amazing possiblity. Now, why do I bring this up? Because when you talk about God or omnipotence you fail to scale beyond the human experience.
Even if you don't believe in him, or do, if you challenge the idea of God you have to frame it in the right tone. Not one of moralistic values designed for humans, but one of a cosmic nature.
To go further about the physics of it, imagine the comparison of a 3rd dimensional man versus a 2 dimensional man or basically having just ONE extra dimension added to our existence.: <a href='http://www.hitxp.com/math/geo/euclid/130503.htm' target='_blank'>http://www.hitxp.com/math/geo/euclid/130503.htm</a>
Now again, if your talking about the morality of God or such, you have to understand that your talking about the person behind all of this, the being who exists behind existence itself does have a right to exert the ideas of possession and fate on those things he created.
Comments
I leave you alone, you leave me alone. I do not believe in your religion, and I demand that your religion does not influence my life. I, on the other hand, will refrain from poiting out whatever I perceive to be glaring mistakes and contradictions in your religion.
Skulkbait's not advocating censorship, he's requesting that the overzealous preachers limit themselves to preaching to those that actually WANT to be preached to.
In reply to Snidely: According to <a href='http://www.4degreez.com/misc/dante-inferno-test.mv' target='_blank'>this test</a> (which may or may not be accurate), I am headed for the first circle of hell. I could imagine far, far worse fates.
@lolfighter : amateur , I've been creeping around the City of Dis for quite a long while... extreme heresy ftw <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
(this is not an argument that they were christians - it is an argument that such a day would mark a loss of freedom of speach, and a loss of freedom of religion - both of which skulkbait seems to advocate.) <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
All he's advocating is for people to be polite to eachother.
Apparently I'm going to the 7th circle of Hell, where the violent, the warmongerers, the usurers, and the suicidal go. Yep, that describes my personality: violent, warmongering, greedy, and suicidal. :rollseyes:
If it's worth anything, I'm also a high match for the 2nd circle of hell. <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--> Never thought that that could be used as consolation.
Forget heaven. This rocks!
I got really high scores on 4, 5, 6 and 8 somehow.
Tell you what. On the day the Christians stop trying to push their religion on me (pushing for "intelegent design" to be taught in schools, referencing the bible in futile attempts to win arguments, amending the constitution to discriminate against homosexuals, ect) then I will stop pointing out the flaws with their ideals and keep my religion to myself too. On that day I will let them believe whatever psycho nonsense they want to believe, despite all the evidence to the contrary. On that day, when I can turn on AM radio and not hear some evangelist thumpin' his bible and proclaiming that something is wrong because he read it in a book, I will shut up. On that day, when they stop murdering abortion doctors and protesting aids marches with their ignorant-as-all-**** "aids cures f*gs" signs, I will be happy. Something tells me that day will never come. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I sure hope not - our our founding fathers would turn over in their graves.
(this is not an argument that they were christians - it is an argument that such a day would mark a loss of freedom of speach, and a loss of freedom of religion - both of which skulkbait seems to advocate.) <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
As others have said, you're totally misunderstanding. Its not that I want government to step in and shut people up, its that I want christians to shut themselves up and leave the rest of us the hell alone. Is it too much to ask that you keep your religion to yourself?
And Sky, damn dude I'm jelous (and disapointed in myself). I only managed the 5th level of hell.
Because you do it all the time and never shut up about it! And then you try and push it in our schools! And into law! And seem to bring it up whenever you get the chance, and I'll tell you what, its annoying as all hell! Not to mention the ignorant and stupid things that some of you do, like KILL DOCTORS and PROTEST AIDS MARCHES and THREATENING VIOLENCE TO MAKE PEOPLE CONVERT (see link, page or so ago). Its one thing to say to a friend "hey you know, I have these ideas about God, want to hear them?" and its annother to get on the radio or TV and shout "Homosexuals and Atheists are ruining this country! We need a constitutional amendment to limit the freedom of these evil doers and make our country pure again! We must force our beliefs onto others through the schools!".
if you don't want to state your views or have other people state thiers. then move to another country where people don't have thoose freedoms, then your problems might be solved
if you don't want to state your views or have other people state thiers. then move to another country where people don't have thoose freedoms, then your problems might be solved <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
As I've said before, its not that I want government involvement in shutting these people up, I just wish they'd shut themselves up. Its like those **** who take cell phones and babies into theatres and restauraunts and what have you. Its a matter of common courtosy.
Besides, aren't you the one who was telling me that I should just shut up and go on my merry way? Why doesn't the same apply to you?
1- Cell phone/baby bringers are often not thinking of others and I don't think thats good at all.
2- over zeal in Religous (or really any views for that matter) are more destructive then they are productive
3- taking away people's freedom to CHOOSE their religoin/beliefs is bad, people need their agency.
4- Cruel or negative treatment to others simple because they have serperate beliefs is not good, and I know that I can be accused of that so I'll admit that thats a problem I personally need to work on.
but here's where I disagree with you
1- Peacefull protest and political movements agaisnt issues (IE abortion, **** marrige, wars) are totally intitled to people in thier rights. if they want to state whats on their mind they should. but I also believe there is a time and place for that.
2- Spreading religoin threw means like missionaries, friends suggestions, and stuff like that is ok. while I don't think TV adds should run "KILL THE PAGEN-SCUM!" and so on and so forth.
<!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
*cough*<!--QuoteBegin-skulkbait+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (skulkbait)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Not to mention the ignorant and stupid things that some of you do, like KILL DOCTORS and PROTEST AIDS MARCHES and THREATENING VIOLENCE TO MAKE PEOPLE CONVERT (see link, page or so ago). <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
These things have happened Avenger. It's pretty much a fact that there are some really crazy christians in this country. (oooh alliteration) I mean, seriously, I've seen interviews about abortion issues and such with people from the deep South, and every time someone comes on spouting on about how the Jesus loves him for hating baby-killers I actually contemplate whether or not punching the television would cause him any bodily harm, or at least smack some sense into him. This stuff is just accepted in our country; you can hate on these groups as much as you want as long as you can fall back on "I hate them because I'm Christian" or something. <!--emo&::marine::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/marine.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='marine.gif' /><!--endemo-->
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Again, I'm not advocating such a thing. And never have. So shut up about it.
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1- Peacefull protest and political movements agaisnt issues (IE abortion, **** marrige, wars) are totally intitled to people in thier rights. if they want to state whats on their mind they should. but I also believe there is a time and place for that.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Sure, but they should at least be slightly informed about what they're protesting, not just doing it because "Homosexuals are bad m'kay! and AIDS is their cure! So don't march for an AIDS cure!". You can't seriously believe that these people have a legitimate problem with an AIDS march can you?
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Again, I'm not advocating such a thing. And never have. So shut up about it. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Dammit Skulkbait he was agreeing with you <!--emo&::marine::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/marine.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='marine.gif' /><!--endemo--> He meant that forcing religion on people is bad, because that would be taking away their freedom of choice and such.
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1- Peacefull protest and political movements agaisnt issues (IE abortion, **** marrige, wars) are totally intitled to people in thier rights. if they want to state whats on their mind they should. but I also believe there is a time and place for that.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Sure, but they should at least be slightly informed about what they're protesting, not just doing it because "Homosexuals are bad m'kay! and AIDS is their cure! So don't march for an AIDS cure!". You can't seriously believe that these people have a legitimate problem with an AIDS march can you?<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Just a thought, if you were to sit at your computer and complain all day about all the instances of ignorance and stupidity found every day on this Earth, your fingers would fall off. People are dumb, it's just it's easier to notice stupidity in big loud groups, like religions. I prefer to laugh at it then get angry. <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
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*cough*<!--QuoteBegin-skulkbait+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (skulkbait)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Not to mention the ignorant and stupid things that some of you do, like KILL DOCTORS and PROTEST AIDS MARCHES and THREATENING VIOLENCE TO MAKE PEOPLE CONVERT (see link, page or so ago). <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
These things have happened Avenger. It's pretty much a fact that there are some really crazy christians in this country. (oooh alliteration) I mean, seriously, I've seen interviews about abortion issues and such with people from the deep South, and every time someone comes on spouting on about how the Jesus loves him for hating baby-killers I actually contemplate whether or not punching the television would cause him any bodily harm, or at least smack some sense into him. This stuff is just accepted in our country; you can hate on these groups as much as you want as long as you can fall back on "I hate them because I'm Christian" or something. <!--emo&::marine::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/marine.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='marine.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
I know that they happen. and they need to be stopped. but just cuz a few crazy christians are running wild doesn't mean there all bad. heck, if members of any faction I belonged to were commiting violent crimes I'd want them to be brought to justice. no matter how pure their motives may be in there radical little minds, they still can't justify the acts which they comit.
and the thing about most people being stupid. thats pretty true. rule of thumb if you run into another person in the world. odds are the'll be a moron
Can the number 1 be bad or good? No, its because its number, to relate emotions or actions to it would be odd and incomprehensible. The same would apply to God since the human terms of emotion, morality simply don't apply.
Let me go into some simple ideas of God and creation. When talking about creation of the universe or reality for that matter, you can't not talk about physics.
Personally I like physics in religeous topics because it gives you a broader view on the very ideas of creation and how infintismal we are in the scheme of things.
Basically the idea of older school physics where that there were two schools of physics, neither of which agreed with each other. Einstein himself had issues with this.
It was thought that in order for one to be true, the other had to be false, that is until recently.
In comes string theory. It combines the two previous theories into one, cohesive theory, but in order for it to work, it has to exist in a 11 dimensional universe.
Meaning, that while we live in three dimensional space (with time being the fourth) there are as many as 8 more dimensions we are completely unaware of.
<a href='http://www.physicsforums.com/archive/t-5544_More_than_3_dimensions?.html' target='_blank'>http://www.physicsforums.com/archive/t-554...imensions?.html</a>
<a href='http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/elegant/dimensions.html' target='_blank'>http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/elegant/dimensions.html</a>
Thats an amazing possiblity. Now, why do I bring this up? Because when you talk about God or omnipotence you fail to scale beyond the human experience.
Even if you don't believe in him, or do, if you challenge the idea of God you have to frame it in the right tone. Not one of moralistic values designed for humans, but one of a cosmic nature.
To go further about the physics of it, imagine the comparison of a 3rd dimensional man versus a 2 dimensional man or basically having just ONE extra dimension added to our existence.:
<a href='http://www.hitxp.com/math/geo/euclid/130503.htm' target='_blank'>http://www.hitxp.com/math/geo/euclid/130503.htm</a>
Now again, if your talking about the morality of God or such, you have to understand that your talking about the person behind all of this, the being who exists behind existence itself does have a right to exert the ideas of possession and fate on those things he created.
For more fun stuff:
<a href='http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/elegant/' target='_blank'>http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/elegant/</a>