I don't play in a clan, but I do think that doing MCs second is very important. I play on Lunixmonster a lot, and the MC is extremely important to prevent the 2nd and 3rd hives from dying. It's also nice to be able to drop the third hive and have everyone teleport.
Maybe in clan play, you can track the marines with SCs and don't have to worry about MCs to stop a surprise hive rush (it's still nice to be able to instantly teleport if you spawn at the wrong hive). In pubs, however, it is so much easier to tell everyone to use an MC the second hive hive starts taking damage, than to get people to track the marines and figure out if it's just a couple rambos, or a concentrated rush.
As a fade, at Hive 1, I always get Regeneration. The marines don't usually have good guns, and the lowered downtime is more important than being able to survive against SGs/HMGs.
At Hive 2, I always get Celerity and Carapace (Focus if we go SC second). I have meta to regen adrenaline during my blinks, or to heal out of combat. If I really need to heal, then I can usually find a gorge or a DC, or even go back to a hive. I rarely run out of energy, and if I do run out, it means that I was doing crazy celerity blinks, and with carapace, I wouldn't have taken much damage, meaning that I can usually get out.
Its really easy to hit an adren fade if all they are doing is blinking straight. Thats the point though, at no point should you be going in the same direction for very long. Its very similar to playing a combat lerk, straight lines = death. But once you learn to master erratic behaviour you can become very hard to track. Fair enough I've not played the best of the best marines but I've played against some very good ones who seem to struggle with hitting me.
I find it humourous how the title of this thread is "Why the most skillful fades use adrenaline" and I have yet to see a single high-level fade use adrenaline. (eg knife / BM / terror / exi ) Oh that and the person who created this thread is an ex-member of one of the nubbiest clans in europe. Go figure.
HD aren't that bad, and remember they've never claimed to be pro. Some clans are about enjoying the game with friends.
You've got to think of a good title or people who know a thing or two won't post. I would be interested in how the best fades get on with adren and trying to dodge. Could you guys try it a bit and see what its like?
yeah with perfectly aimed shots, fades are actually quite weak. they don't have <b><i>masses</i></b> of health and they die quite easily. what makes them so hard to kill is just because they are hard to aim at; well the good fades anyway.
<!--QuoteBegin-SpaceJesus+Feb 7 2005, 11:46 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (SpaceJesus @ Feb 7 2005, 11:46 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> even the best players in the world rarely land perfect shots. Although it's more frequent than with less skilled players its still rare. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> A fade w/o celerity vs a HMG with 100 fps = one very useless/dead fade
The reason to why most skilled fades use celerity is because of how buged the hitbox gets with it, making you alot harder to hit. That and of course because it makes you faster.
If you use adrenaline you dont have to worry about your adrenaline consumation and its good if you get stuck.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> The reason to why most skilled fades use celerity is because of how buged the hitbox gets with it<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Damn, he knows the secret...same thing for lerk with celerity. Even an almost perfect aimer, can't always make a lot of blood come out of these critters. Because! The hl engine is bs, where skill can be obscured by luck. Aiming at the graphic just doesn't cut it all the time. Either the hit box is not there or you get shotgun sparks (same effect as a wall, especially in celerity fades).
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> even the best players in the world rarely land perfect shots.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I'm sure a lot of good players have incredible aim, but with all the bug described above, thats probably the reason why perfection is unataineble. Don't know about you guys, but thew way I can aim so damn perfectly at the graphic impresses me everyday, I feel like a human aim-bot on more than half the shots I shoot. I stop shooting before a skulk actually dies, cos I know that my 9 bullets were perfectly aimed. But that doesn't work all the time.
I bless the lord of giving me so much skill, but I blame the devil for making this game so much luck and bs.
<!--QuoteBegin-ShotgunEd+Feb 2 2005, 12:07 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (ShotgunEd @ Feb 2 2005, 12:07 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Ever since metabolise gave you adrenaline, everyone suddenly seemed to say adren fades are for noobs. A pro fade knows how to save energy and just taps his fire button so doesn't need the adrenaline they say.
...but a celerity fade is so predictable, you know exactly how they are going to act, blink in fairly directly at you, hit, run away, repeat. A very solo orientated style of play. Sure skulks and lerks can join in, but all it ends up being is 5 individual players rushing together.
The difference with adrenaline is that you can blink in and then anywere you like in the combat as much as possible. So you can happily zig zag towards them moving up and down as well. You can fly around their head to distract them whilst skulks run in and munch them. As long as you keep changing direction you can become incredibly hard to hit, much harder than a man sized object moveing, all be it quickly, in a straight line. You attract more fire, meaning there is less ammo in the guns to kill your team mates, you may not always get the kill but the team will get more kills.
An adrenaline fade is so much more manoeuvrable being able to take advantage of the terrain/room and can basicaly disregard any thoughts of energy.
There is a strong role still for the celerity cara fade, but only really as support for the adren regen fade and not the other way around. The celerity fade should get involved once the adrenaline fade has drawn the attention.
No real point to this post, just a big up really for the regen adren fade. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> it is almost ALWAYS better to get to your target from cover as a fade AS SOON AS YOU CAN.
SKILLFUL MARINES WILL SHOOT YOU NO MATTER WHAT DODGING **** YOU PULL OFF, GET TO HIM AS FAST AS YOU CAN AND TAKE HIM DOWN.
So without the laggy hit boxs, celerity fades would take a lot more damage than at present. A laggy hit box bug doesn't seem to be a good thing to base a fade on.
A truly skilled Fade player could get away with a different movement upgrade by use of Metabolize and bhopping to keep up speed and conserve energy. A Celerity or Silence Fade is always more unexpected and deadly, if easier to kill.
Celerity all the way <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--> As far as im concerned ns corridors are too tight to use adren fades and they are too slow. The fade was never a bullet magnet. I just don't think youll take enough bullets to bother the marines. Lets put it another way...will an adren fade do more damage in the same amount of time as a celerity fade? I think the answer is no and the added risk is just not worth it. My favourite thing about the celerity fade is that marines are not fast enough to dodge you, makes geting those hits alot easier. If you get lucky you can sometimes fly right past them and get a side swipe in as you go by then you just fly throught them on the return pass. Try that with an adren fade and they all see you coming and just move out the way.
I used to use celerity a lot, but then I saw this Terror match (verses Xensity I think), and the Terror fades went adren. Then I thought, well if Terror does it then it can't be uber n00b, right?
So I tried it, and it worked a lot better. So before you write post after post decrying this or praising it, go try it.
I could see using celerity if you went mc first and want to fade before hive 2. But if you've got meta and regen, there's no reason not to get adren and blink around like a madman.
Now that I think about it, too often when I had celerity I would run into a pack of hmgers, panick, then blink into some random column sticking out of a wall and get stuck. With adren instead of celerity, I can actually control where I go, plus I have the juice to blink again if I do make a mistake.
And for my final unecessary paragraph, I'd like to add that every situation is different. Do what you feel is right at the moment, and you will be making the right call.
<!--QuoteBegin-ShotgunEd+Feb 19 2005, 03:05 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (ShotgunEd @ Feb 19 2005, 03:05 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> An adren fade is more manouvarable than a JP. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> And a whole lot slower.
<!--QuoteBegin-ShotgunEd+Feb 19 2005, 03:05 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (ShotgunEd @ Feb 19 2005, 03:05 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> An adren fade is more manouvarable than a JP. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> the key with jetpackers it to get around corners and get around them fast.
celerity works for running really well, unless your terrible at managing your adren you should usually always have enough to escape. jetpackers cant turn corners super fast, but celerity fades can.
<!--QuoteBegin-KoniaX+Feb 19 2005, 10:22 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (KoniaX @ Feb 19 2005, 10:22 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I pride myself on manuverability as a fade, not speed.
It largely depends on the situation though
Also, some people swear by the celerity fade, while other (crazy) people go with the *ugh* silence fade.
<span style='color:red'>To each his own.</span> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> What I think most of you fail to realise is that a celerity fade doesnt really lose mobility, since it takes much less adren to propell you the same distance. It's pretty much a two-in-one upgrade unless you have acid rockets.
My build is always carapace and then celerity, unless I want to screw around with acid rockets.
I used to use adrenaline, and then one guy called me a noob and said celerity was better (I was a noob at the time). Sure enough, I switched to celerity and started whooping **** pretty hard. My best game so far, on combat anyway, was a 99/21 (but I had focus, among other things). Sadly we lost that game, I just couldn't get that stupid knifer with all those other things in my way. But that's beside the point.
Even without the seemingless endless energy I used to have with adrenaline, I make by very well with celerity. I kill much more often, still make my grand escapes (much better too), and the only thing that bugs me is that I can't just endless swipe to death an RT, I have to metabolise a couple times.
I prefer carapace-focus, I'm even better with that, but because movement helps everyone else so much more I always go with movement.
I also find it MUCH easier to kill heavy armor with celerity, because I can dodge much easier since I move faster. With adrenaline fade, I could barely take one solo, but with celerity fade, most of the time I can take one out with few problems.
But I feel I must defend the silence fade!
Early silence fades are the best of course, but even when they have motion tracking, sometimes near the end of the game I will silence fade. It's great because I can sneak up behind them very well, after all, MT doesn't show behind you. I've taken out large groups of marines before when they don't watch behind them very closely. And even with good players, I've seen, they don't watch their rear as much as they should. Before they realize it, I've taken out 2 or 3 marines and then when I blink around them they don't know which way I went because they can't hear me.
I still prefer carapace-celerity, as that's what I'm best as, but once in a while it's fun to mix things up and use carapace-silence or carapace-adrenaline.
I've yet to use regen in ns maps though... maybe I should learn that too.
<!--emo&::fade::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/fade.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='fade.gif' /><!--endemo--> I love fades <!--emo&::fade::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/fade.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='fade.gif' /><!--endemo-->
I've played about now with celer and adren, to be honest I can't see much difference when I'm playing. Maybe its more noticeable to people shooting me, I dunno.
Fact is however, I can use celerity, move at least the same speed, and still have energy left over. So its why I'm swinging that way now. However, adren is still very very useful and the adren meta/acid has been very handy in annoying the hell out of marines.
Comments
Maybe in clan play, you can track the marines with SCs and don't have to worry about MCs to stop a surprise hive rush (it's still nice to be able to instantly teleport if you spawn at the wrong hive). In pubs, however, it is so much easier to tell everyone to use an MC the second hive hive starts taking damage, than to get people to track the marines and figure out if it's just a couple rambos, or a concentrated rush.
As a fade, at Hive 1, I always get Regeneration. The marines don't usually have good guns, and the lowered downtime is more important than being able to survive against SGs/HMGs.
At Hive 2, I always get Celerity and Carapace (Focus if we go SC second). I have meta to regen adrenaline during my blinks, or to heal out of combat. If I really need to heal, then I can usually find a gorge or a DC, or even go back to a hive. I rarely run out of energy, and if I do run out, it means that I was doing crazy celerity blinks, and with carapace, I wouldn't have taken much damage, meaning that I can usually get out.
(eg knife / BM / terror / exi )
Oh that and the person who created this thread is an ex-member of one of the nubbiest clans in europe.
Go figure.
You've got to think of a good title or people who know a thing or two won't post. I would be interested in how the best fades get on with adren and trying to dodge. Could you guys try it a bit and see what its like?
even with my perfectly aimed shots the bugger just wouldnt die =p
A fade w/o celerity vs a HMG with 100 fps = one very useless/dead fade
[Edit]Considering of course that the HMGer gets med support, dont get lured into wasting ammo and can aim somewhat
If you use adrenaline you dont have to worry about your adrenaline consumation and its good if you get stuck.
I prefer celerity.
Damn, he knows the secret...same thing for lerk with celerity. Even an almost perfect aimer, can't always make a lot of blood come out of these critters. Because! The hl engine is bs, where skill can be obscured by luck. Aiming at the graphic just doesn't cut it all the time. Either the hit box is not there or you get shotgun sparks (same effect as a wall, especially in celerity fades).
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> even the best players in the world rarely land perfect shots.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I'm sure a lot of good players have incredible aim, but with all the bug described above, thats probably the reason why perfection is unataineble. Don't know about you guys, but thew way I can aim so damn perfectly at the graphic impresses me everyday, I feel like a human aim-bot on more than half the shots I shoot. I stop shooting before a skulk actually dies, cos I know that my 9 bullets were perfectly aimed. But that doesn't work all the time.
I bless the lord of giving me so much skill, but I blame the devil for making this game so much luck and bs.
...but a celerity fade is so predictable, you know exactly how they are going to act, blink in fairly directly at you, hit, run away, repeat. A very solo orientated style of play. Sure skulks and lerks can join in, but all it ends up being is 5 individual players rushing together.
The difference with adrenaline is that you can blink in and then anywere you like in the combat as much as possible. So you can happily zig zag towards them moving up and down as well. You can fly around their head to distract them whilst skulks run in and munch them. As long as you keep changing direction you can become incredibly hard to hit, much harder than a man sized object moveing, all be it quickly, in a straight line. You attract more fire, meaning there is less ammo in the guns to kill your team mates, you may not always get the kill but the team will get more kills.
An adrenaline fade is so much more manoeuvrable being able to take advantage of the terrain/room and can basicaly disregard any thoughts of energy.
There is a strong role still for the celerity cara fade, but only really as support for the adren regen fade and not the other way around. The celerity fade should get involved once the adrenaline fade has drawn the attention.
No real point to this post, just a big up really for the regen adren fade. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
it is almost ALWAYS better to get to your target from cover as a fade AS SOON AS YOU CAN.
SKILLFUL MARINES WILL SHOOT YOU NO MATTER WHAT DODGING **** YOU PULL OFF, GET TO HIM AS FAST AS YOU CAN AND TAKE HIM DOWN.
yeah thats pretty much my opinion.
As far as im concerned ns corridors are too tight to use adren fades and they are too slow. The fade was never a bullet magnet. I just don't think youll take enough bullets to bother the marines.
Lets put it another way...will an adren fade do more damage in the same amount of time as a celerity fade? I think the answer is no and the added risk is just not worth it.
My favourite thing about the celerity fade is that marines are not fast enough to dodge you, makes geting those hits alot easier. If you get lucky you can sometimes fly right past them and get a side swipe in as you go by then you just fly throught them on the return pass. Try that with an adren fade and they all see you coming and just move out the way.
So I tried it, and it worked a lot better. So before you write post after post decrying this or praising it, go try it.
I could see using celerity if you went mc first and want to fade before hive 2. But if you've got meta and regen, there's no reason not to get adren and blink around like a madman.
Now that I think about it, too often when I had celerity I would run into a pack of hmgers, panick, then blink into some random column sticking out of a wall and get stuck. With adren instead of celerity, I can actually control where I go, plus I have the juice to blink again if I do make a mistake.
And for my final unecessary paragraph, I'd like to add that every situation is different. Do what you feel is right at the moment, and you will be making the right call.
And a whole lot slower.
the key with jetpackers it to get around corners and get around them fast.
celerity works for running really well, unless your terrible at managing your adren you should usually always have enough to escape. jetpackers cant turn corners super fast, but celerity fades can.
no matter what, no jper is as manuverable as a good blinking fade
i just find escaping as a celerity fade much easier. as a celerity fade do you run out of energy when you try to escape?
It largely depends on the situation though
Also, some people swear by the celerity fade, while other (crazy) people go with the *ugh* silence fade.
<span style='color:red'>To each his own.</span>
hey isnt that forlorns avatar?
*snicker*
It largely depends on the situation though
Also, some people swear by the celerity fade, while other (crazy) people go with the *ugh* silence fade.
<span style='color:red'>To each his own.</span> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
What I think most of you fail to realise is that a celerity fade doesnt really lose mobility, since it takes much less adren to propell you the same distance. It's pretty much a two-in-one upgrade unless you have acid rockets.
My build is always carapace and then celerity, unless I want to screw around with acid rockets.
I used to use adrenaline, and then one guy called me a noob and said celerity was better (I was a noob at the time). Sure enough, I switched to celerity and started whooping **** pretty hard. My best game so far, on combat anyway, was a 99/21 (but I had focus, among other things). Sadly we lost that game, I just couldn't get that stupid knifer with all those other things in my way. But that's beside the point.
Even without the seemingless endless energy I used to have with adrenaline, I make by very well with celerity. I kill much more often, still make my grand escapes (much better too), and the only thing that bugs me is that I can't just endless swipe to death an RT, I have to metabolise a couple times.
I prefer carapace-focus, I'm even better with that, but because movement helps everyone else so much more I always go with movement.
I also find it MUCH easier to kill heavy armor with celerity, because I can dodge much easier since I move faster. With adrenaline fade, I could barely take one solo, but with celerity fade, most of the time I can take one out with few problems.
But I feel I must defend the silence fade!
Early silence fades are the best of course, but even when they have motion tracking, sometimes near the end of the game I will silence fade. It's great because I can sneak up behind them very well, after all, MT doesn't show behind you. I've taken out large groups of marines before when they don't watch behind them very closely. And even with good players, I've seen, they don't watch their rear as much as they should. Before they realize it, I've taken out 2 or 3 marines and then when I blink around them they don't know which way I went because they can't hear me.
I still prefer carapace-celerity, as that's what I'm best as, but once in a while it's fun to mix things up and use carapace-silence or carapace-adrenaline.
I've yet to use regen in ns maps though... maybe I should learn that too.
<!--emo&::fade::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/fade.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='fade.gif' /><!--endemo--> I love fades <!--emo&::fade::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/fade.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='fade.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Fact is however, I can use celerity, move at least the same speed, and still have energy left over. So its why I'm swinging that way now. However, adren is still very very useful and the adren meta/acid has been very handy in annoying the hell out of marines.