Why The Most Skillful Fades Use Adrenaline

ShotgunEdShotgunEd Join Date: 2004-01-02 Member: 24966Posts: 112Members
...
Ever since metabolise gave you adrenaline, everyone suddenly seemed to say adren fades are for noobs. A pro fade knows how to save energy and just taps his fire button so doesn't need the adrenaline they say.

...but a celerity fade is so predictable, you know exactly how they are going to act, blink in fairly directly at you, hit, run away, repeat. A very solo orientated style of play. Sure skulks and lerks can join in, but all it ends up being is 5 individual players rushing together.

The difference with adrenaline is that you can blink in and then anywere you like in the combat as much as possible. So you can happily zig zag towards them moving up and down as well. You can fly around their head to distract them whilst skulks run in and munch them. As long as you keep changing direction you can become incredibly hard to hit, much harder than a man sized object moveing, all be it quickly, in a straight line. You attract more fire, meaning there is less ammo in the guns to kill your team mates, you may not always get the kill but the team will get more kills.

An adrenaline fade is so much more manoeuvrable being able to take advantage of the terrain/room and can basicaly disregard any thoughts of energy.

There is a strong role still for the celerity cara fade, but only really as support for the adren regen fade and not the other way around. The celerity fade should get involved once the adrenaline fade has drawn the attention.

No real point to this post, just a big up really for the regen adren fade.
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Comments

  • theclamtheclam Join Date: 2004-08-01 Member: 30290Posts: 1,795Members
    The thing is, you can do the exact same thing with a cele fade, as an adren fade. If you blink, take a bhop, meta, then you'll have enough for a few more blinks. If you're good with conservation of energy and speed, then you don't really need adren. It does provide a way to get out if you screw up and run out of energy. Still, the overall damage taken for a cele fade will be much lower than an adren fade, if the fade is of sufficiently high skill.
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  • MouseMouse The Lighter Side of Pessimism Join Date: 2002-03-02 Member: 263Posts: 3,555Members, NS1 Playtester, Forum Moderators, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow mod
    Then of course there's the silence fade.
    -/AUS/- PS_Mouse
  • EggmanEggman Join Date: 2004-09-05 Member: 31423Posts: 37Members
    I don't see why you need adrenaline to blink around a lot... if you just tap blink it hardly uses any energy. It's the blinking and swiping that takes more energy. If you're not planning on killing anything, there's no need for all that energy.
    "Everything in life is simple. You just have to figure it out first" - Me
  • j3stj3st Join Date: 2004-06-28 Member: 29602Posts: 239Members
    QUOTE (Eggman @ Feb 2 2005, 12:49 AM)
    if you just tap blink it hardly uses any energy. It's the blinking and swiping that takes more energy.

    a bit contradictory?
  • ShotgunEdShotgunEd Join Date: 2004-01-02 Member: 24966Posts: 112Members
    "The thing is, you can do the exact same thing with a cele fade, as an adren fade. If you blink, take a bhop, meta, then you'll have enough for a few more blinks. If you're good with conservation of energy and speed, then you don't really need adren. It does provide a way to get out if you screw up and run out of energy. Still, the overall damage taken for a cele fade will be much lower than an adren fade, if the fade is of sufficiently high skill."

    Glaring problem here is "take a bhop", far too easy to hit when you do this. With adren there is no need at all to conserve energy and speed, making the adren fade idealy suited this style of fading, a celerity fade can simply be too fast to "pull tight corners". Sure you can switch direction easy but you can't fly circles around your opponent. You also can not zig zag up down left and right any where near as effectivly with celerity.

    The adren fade needs to attemp to dodge bullets.
    The celerity fade allows as little time as possible for bullets to be fired.

    Both can be effective, dodging is more skillful.
  • tjosantjosan Join Date: 2003-05-16 Member: 16374Posts: 1,335Members, Constellation
    An adrenaline fade is easy to hit mid-blink, a celerity one is neigh impossible (to track with good reg). Registry is the big issue here, and it's awful on blinking celerity fades.
  • ArmageddonArmageddon Join Date: 2005-01-07 Member: 33055Posts: 259Members
    QUOTE (Mouse @ Feb 2 2005, 12:39 AM)
    Then of course there's the silence fade.

    LOL

    Which upgrade you get for fade depends on preference really. Some people can handle the fast speed of celerity and control their energy properly while others, who aren't used to tapping their mouse buttons, are used to traveling slowly.
  • NecrosisNecrosis The Loquacious Sage Join Date: 2003-08-03 Member: 18828Posts: 3,203Members, Constellation
    Adren fade means you can take cara as your DC choice. Adren-meta means self healing is pretty quick, cara means for the bulk of the game you'll be able to take a leeeetle bit more damage, which is nice when someone clips you with a lucky shot. Thats just my personal preference tho, in general its all in how you actually fade.
  • ArmageddonArmageddon Join Date: 2005-01-07 Member: 33055Posts: 259Members
    QUOTE (Necrosis @ Feb 2 2005, 07:07 PM)
    Adren fade means you can take cara as your DC choice. Adren-meta means self healing is pretty quick, cara means for the bulk of the game you'll be able to take a leeeetle bit more damage, which is nice when someone clips you with a lucky shot. Thats just my personal preference tho, in general its all in how you actually fade.

    Cara is excellent for mid to late game fades as it allows them to soak up those extra bullets coming from the upped guns the marines will have.

    And it is a better idea to get cara with adren since you'll be going slower. But again its all about preference and how well u fade.
  • keep_it_Gangstakeep_it_Gangsta Join Date: 2003-06-23 Member: 17632Posts: 502Members
    im a noob fade, i take celerity
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  • ShotgunEdShotgunEd Join Date: 2004-01-02 Member: 24966Posts: 112Members
    There shouldn't really be any mid-blink point, because you should always be moving. I take the point about the hit reg simply because I know nothing about it.

    "Some people can handle the fast speed of celerity and control their energy properly while others, who aren't used to tapping their mouse buttons, are used to traveling slowly."

    You'll probably need quicker fingers to dodge and kill succesfully, and you may be moving slower but your changing direction a hell of a lot more, which tends to be harder to hit than simple speed.
  • asparagusasparagus Join Date: 2003-09-21 Member: 21069Posts: 8Members
    I am a firm beleiver in celerity, I used to use adrenaline, but now having gotten used to the speed, I dont see how I could ever go back.


    THIS
    is what you can expect using celerity
  • God_KillerGod_Killer Join Date: 2004-02-16 Member: 26592Posts: 503Members
    LOL in metal ms...you where too just lame to kill the ips tounge.gif

    Yeah celerity pwn others and me.

    Show me your meansly slow adrenaline fade, lets say in metal ms, he will get his **** kicked if ppl can aim.

    Celerity all the way, unless maybe one hive 2 upgrades.
    My avatar is like sooooo smooth.
  • MouseMouse The Lighter Side of Pessimism Join Date: 2002-03-02 Member: 263Posts: 3,555Members, NS1 Playtester, Forum Moderators, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow mod
    QUOTE (Armageddon @ Feb 3 2005, 10:02 AM)
    QUOTE (Mouse @ Feb 2 2005, 12:39 AM)
    Then of course there's the silence fade.

    LOL

    Which upgrade you get for fade depends on preference really. Some people can handle the fast speed of celerity and control their energy properly while others, who aren't used to tapping their mouse buttons, are used to traveling slowly.

    Regardless of the skill of the individual marine, silence tends to screw them over (to varying degrees); marines with motion being the notable exception. That said, I agree with you, the upgrade you get as fade is based upon preference; each of the available choices are nigh on equal in terms of viability (admittedly varied playstyles are required for each of them), it's just that the advantages offered by celerity and adrenaline are more immediately visible than those offered by silence.
    -/AUS/- PS_Mouse
  • NukeAJSNukeAJS Join Date: 2004-05-04 Member: 28443Posts: 187Members
    I metabolize midblink through my incredible amount of leetness every time. Roughly I'm going to say that two-three metas equal the time that an adrenline fade is doing his slow blinking. Slow blinking is easier to shoot and easier to take down. Also, metabolizing heals meaning you might be able to escape by the skin of your teeth if such a close situation arrives (you shouldn't be in one but everyone does die)

    Saying that ... I've seen some crazy things with adrenline fades. Things I just can't do with cele/meta like staying airborn in a small room for 15 seconds with swipes (a guy was showing off). Also, bunnyhopping with adrenline can get you places very very fast. Celerity/bhopping is faster but it is still impressive. Adrenlien fades can blink longer but against good marines, they should be able to hit your slow blinking with their level two weapons and shotties (assuming MC is dropped second and the commander has decent res to drop shotties). Longer blinking doesn't help you most of the time. Being able to take two shotty blasts instead of four because you are wicked fast does help though.

    I'd say the buggest advantage a adrenline fade has is absolute emergency escapes (holding +attack down) and always having adrenline for that last swipe. Sometimes I'll be blinking/metaing around and I'll have that last marine to pick off while I have high health so he's not a threat, but alas I've blinked by last stamina to the point where I can't swipe. I meta but then a guy with a shotty turns the corner and blasts me ... I blink away and heal. Adrenline solves this and this happens all the time in CO.

    Biggest advantages of celerity fade are less "bullet-time" and faster walk speed (which allows a marine that is just out of range to be in range). If you learn hwo to blink-meta-(blink-meta again if needed)swipe while not holding the forward key (for air control) you can mix up an approachment a lot while moving very fast. Also, If a celerity fade blinks striaght up, most marines close to the fade have no idea where he went and assume a redemption or disconnect for a split second. Adrenlien fade is too slow for this tactic. Once you go this you can either meta-blink down for a kill or blink away (and don't have to be worried about being blocked).

    So I guess overall I'm saying that a celerity fade is much much harder to play as well as a adrenline fade but the rewards are greater. It is hard to be able to do stuff besides blinking straight in, swiping, and blinking out but it is very possible. The paths taken will not be as diverse as an adrenline fade's since you have to meta (it is essential) and this takes concentration away from blinking but this doesn't matter since you will be getting there faster (offsetting damage for the lack of diversity at higher speeds). You will have more health form metaing (most adrenline fades do not I've noticed, nearly all celerity fades do). and a cele fades retreat is much more effective (Fades never seem to alter their reatreat no matter who the fade it seems. Most likely because it takes too much patience to not get the heck out of there with only 150 health left).

    Ultimately I think it comes down to preferance. I like celerity because I utilize its benefits more than I do adrenline. It could be the other way just depending on play style.
  • tjosantjosan Join Date: 2003-05-16 Member: 16374Posts: 1,335Members, Constellation
    QUOTE (Mouse @ Feb 3 2005, 04:04 AM)
    QUOTE (Armageddon @ Feb 3 2005, 10:02 AM)
    QUOTE (Mouse @ Feb 2 2005, 12:39 AM)
    Then of course there's the silence fade.

    LOL

    Which upgrade you get for fade depends on preference really. Some people can handle the fast speed of celerity and control their energy properly while others, who aren't used to tapping their mouse buttons, are used to traveling slowly.

    Regardless of the skill of the individual marine, silence tends to screw them over (to varying degrees); marines with motion being the notable exception. That said, I agree with you, the upgrade you get as fade is based upon preference; each of the available choices are nigh on equal in terms of viability (admittedly varied playstyles are required for each of them), it's just that the advantages offered by celerity and adrenaline are more immediately visible than those offered by silence.

    But... you have to see that taking silence is counter productive...

    Not only does it give no advantage at all if it comes to a siege-like situation, but you also remove the slowing effect fade presence has on marine teams. If they can hear a fade, they'll be slower and your team will have time to react.

    Sure, I agree that silence as a fade is great when picking off single marines, but I cant see it as an advantage over either adren or celerity when fighting more than one marine, especially HMGers.
  • asparagusasparagus Join Date: 2003-09-21 Member: 21069Posts: 8Members
    QUOTE (God Killer @ Feb 3 2005, 01:34 AM)
    LOL in metal ms...you where too just lame to kill the ips tounge.gif

    Yeah celerity pwn others and me.

    Show me your meansly slow adrenaline fade, lets say in metal ms, he will get his **** kicked if ppl can aim.

    Celerity all the way, unless maybe one hive 2 upgrades.

    lol =P i took shot as last IP died after baserape, was very long game where we lost 3 hives <_<

    awesome teamwork on aliens though, so many HA rushes were screwed over thanks to me distracting them then the skulks running in to pwn ^_^

    best benefit was having 3 upgrades 15 minutes into game though ^^
  • ShotgunEdShotgunEd Join Date: 2004-01-02 Member: 24966Posts: 112Members
    Nuke I agree with a lot of what you've said. But the style your describing is basicaly blink in, hit, retreat. That may be hard to get good at at first, but really its just basic fading.

    With adren there will almost never be a time when you can not metab, in my experience you sometimes have to wait a second or two with celerity for your adren to get to a high enough level - usually after you've retreated.

    I'm not great at dodging yet, mainly because of bust hands and I make too many mistakes but it's something I'm going to be practicing over the simple fading.

    asparagus if you hadn't died and it wasn't 42 mins long, I might have been impressed tounge.gif
  • MrBenMrBen ns_eclipse, ns_veil caretaker Join Date: 2002-11-14 Member: 8575Posts: 1,119Members
    You won't be metabolising at all if you can't get out of that HMGers line of fire faster.
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  • NecrosisNecrosis The Loquacious Sage Join Date: 2003-08-03 Member: 18828Posts: 3,203Members, Constellation
  • hotbaconsaucehotbaconsauce Join Date: 2004-09-22 Member: 31869Posts: 22Members
    edited February 2005
    I'd hate to shut down this entire discussion. But if you get celerity, you use way less energy blinking cause you can go so much farther with each blink. + if you have movement chambers you usually have 2 or more hives. in which case you do have metabolize. hud_fastswicth 1 people...

    EDIT: and in your fade config, bind mousewheel to +attack. You use about a tenth the energy that way to
  • j3stj3st Join Date: 2004-06-28 Member: 29602Posts: 239Members
    bind mousewheel to +attack?? wouldn't that just take the same amount of energy if u press the mouse so that the fade only swipes once?
  • Gecko_God_Of_DooomGecko_God_Of_Dooom Join Date: 2004-02-10 Member: 26353Posts: 864Members
    The issue is when you have adrenaline, yes you can blink twice as much, but a good celerity fade will blink 2 times farther and faster. If you facing some very good marines who have exelent aim. Adrenline is too slow for the retreat. Specaialy if they have HMGs. With celerity you can retreat 2x more quickly.

    Btw, you can still blink in circles around thier heads by using airstrafe with celerity. I personaly like movements first for fading, and getting celerity.

    btw, Silence is still usefull against seige spots, you just need a creative fade that sneak attacks from behind.
  • Router_BoxRouter_Box Join Date: 2004-09-07 Member: 31483Posts: 638Members, NS1 Playtester, Constellation
    QUOTE (j3st @ Feb 3 2005, 06:46 PM)
    bind mousewheel to +attack?? wouldn't that just take the same amount of energy if u press the mouse so that the fade only swipes once?

    try it. its amazing the difference it makes
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  • AndervalAnderval &lt;3 Join Date: 2003-05-05 Member: 16073Posts: 313Members, Constellation
    generally speaking (as in clan play) having mcs = 2hives = midgame = hmgs = dead adren fade.

    It's really not tough to hit the slower blink speed of an adren fade, sure using the extra adren you have to blink madly around at mid range will allow skulks to get a kill in but then during the midgame where hmgs in pressure teams are abundant i would consider it much more useful to use celerity which give you much faster travel around the map cutting down on marine node cappers, and also for the faster blink speed when you actually do have to get that critical swipe in vs an hmger, in my experience the lerk is much more suited to supporting skulks taking on a marine group.
    what.
  • attritionattrition Join Date: 2004-10-13 Member: 32242Posts: 37Members
    Seems to me like the hottest fade around right now [t]Mustang and their gang allwase get SC as their 2nd upgrade. Maybe they relly on their fade to much but he sure owns with Regen + Focus. I get adren on maps with lots of pits because you cant run out and hit the bottom if your blinking gets a little wild. Other than that its celerity.
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  • j3stj3st Join Date: 2004-06-28 Member: 29602Posts: 239Members
    yep i agree. focus fades are powerful as hell, sof is good, but getting the movement chamber just benefits the whole team more imo, rather than just the fade.

    hives can be protected easier, especially if the hives are not next to each other and are the two furthest away ones. skulks get silence (or celerity), both of which make the skulk much more powerful, lerks get adren to spore/umbra spam, gorges get to hit and run with bile using celerity or healspam higher lifeforms, the onos doesn't move like a snail.

    sc just doesn't seem to have as many benefits to the team as a whole. Mustang may be a good enough fade so that the whole team can just rely on the single powerful focus fade, but there aren't a lot of mustangs around so mc is seen to be a better chamber.
  • SLizerSLizer Join Date: 2003-11-07 Member: 22363Posts: 1,301Members, Constellation
    QUOTE (attrition @ Feb 3 2005, 11:16 PM)
    Seems to me like the hottest fade around right now [t]Mustang and their gang allwase get SC as their 2nd upgrade. Maybe they relly on their fade to much but he sure owns with Regen + Focus. I get adren on maps with lots of pits because you cant run out and hit the bottom if your blinking gets a little wild. Other than that its celerity.

    So they go for DC then for first chamber eh?
    This severly lacks the efficiency for skulks and smaller lifeforms as beginning. I saw the terrror highlight and [t) vs exi. And yes I have to agree that Mustang = da PWnage m4chine with rege + focus (think he took out 4 exi rines with focurege)
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  • NecrosisNecrosis The Loquacious Sage Join Date: 2003-08-03 Member: 18828Posts: 3,203Members, Constellation
    Well I run the risk of offending people, but as a ADREN user, I believe adren to be the choice of the newer player. I have always associated fade skill with evil energy management, to the extent where adren is simply not needed.

    Likewise, I associate my personal choice of CARA with the noob fade. Cara Adren keeps me alive, but a good fade can stay alive with his dodging alone. I would argue that the best fade is using neither of these upgrades.


    On the focus note........ focus fades are very nasty, but really do require a DC upgrade because they're far more fragile. If you were a good bunch of team players and pretty confident, I could see a SC-?C team offensive going very well in the first few minutes of the game.
  • theclamtheclam Join Date: 2004-08-01 Member: 30290Posts: 1,795Members
    QUOTE (j3st @ Feb 3 2005, 06:46 PM)
    bind mousewheel to +attack?? wouldn't that just take the same amount of energy if u press the mouse so that the fade only swipes once?

    I believe that it is for blinking, not swiping. That way you get the absolute minimum amount of blink possible, using very little energy.
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