yeah... the problem is the whole "skill curve" how powerfull should aliens have to be to win? its not CS were both sides are the same so its easy to balance, NS is about ... I'd say 100X more complicated in game play balance
heres the life long problem
if aliens require tons of skill to dominate = most new players giving up on learning curve
if aliens require little skill to dominate = skilled aliens become NS gods and are unstoppable
so what we need to do is find a happy meduim, and convince new players to hang in there long enough to get the learning curve and enjoy the awesome game that NS is.
<a href='http://esports.ampednews.com/?page=forums&tid=3687' target='_blank'>http://esports.ampednews.com/?page=forums&tid=3687</a> Put mp_tournamentmode to some use.
and b6 permanent cloaking will suck the fun out of pubs. honestly, just do away with cloaking.
<!--QuoteBegin-Traken+Jan 31 2005, 07:27 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Traken @ Jan 31 2005, 07:27 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-tjosan+Jan 31 2005, 06:24 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (tjosan @ Jan 31 2005, 06:24 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Sensory chambers are evil. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Could you elaborate some? <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> They are frustrating to play against as marine, since you basically have no chance of actually outskilling the skulk. You're dead by default.
When marines have got their **** together after the first onslaught, they will lock the map down which in turn generates a longer-than-average game which will (after the initial onslaught) be very frustrating to play as alien. This doesnt mean that playing marine will be less frustrating, since winning will be all up to the commander (ie commander drop obs, marines build, marines win), and every push you make you will continue to meet the unevitable default death by cloaked skulks.
Summary: Sensory chambers are evil, since they set up the round to be very boring and frustrating for both sides. Avoid sensory chambers.
<!--QuoteBegin-MrBen+Feb 1 2005, 11:52 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (MrBen @ Feb 1 2005, 11:52 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Maybe if they rushed more than two at a time... <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> huh?
anyways moving on..
this would be cool: hand nades cost 15 res to tech from armory
if u tech it again it costs 20 and gives another hand nade (so now u have 2!)
then if u tech again its 25 or something and gives another one as well.
i think we should stop there to prevent nade spam from getting out of control no?
Well unfortunately for my personal pleasure, I haven't seen the Marines constantly beating the Kharaa. Depending on the map, I see a variety of incidences. Damn.
<!--QuoteBegin-Rapier7+Jan 31 2005, 04:13 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Rapier7 @ Jan 31 2005, 04:13 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> STUPID "VETS" I FRIGGIN' TOLD YOU SO THAT THIS CURRENT BUILD AND ITS MAPS WERE HORRIBLY SLANTED TO THE MARINES. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Who were you talking to who said this build was balanced? lol
2.01 was the best build. God damn that was so balanced for clanplay.
<!--QuoteBegin-Necrosis+Jan 31 2005, 06:16 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Necrosis @ Jan 31 2005, 06:16 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> 2.0 was insane slanted towards aliens. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> No. You just don't know what you're talking about.... 2.01 was the most balanced build BY FAR. It was almost 50/50 at the end with marines having a slight 55/45 advantadge maybe.
<!--QuoteBegin-heycheckitoutyo+Feb 1 2005, 04:24 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (heycheckitoutyo @ Feb 1 2005, 04:24 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> and b6 permanent cloaking will suck the fun out of pubs. honestly, just do away with cloaking. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> honestly please remove cloaking
<!--QuoteBegin-obuh+Feb 1 2005, 12:57 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (obuh @ Feb 1 2005, 12:57 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Cloaking, in my opinion, provides frustrating gameplay and allows bad skulks to get kills with ease. ): <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Well then at least in large pubs aliens will actually be getting kills..
The way to make the SC's not unbearble is to switch scan from the energy system to a res system. So it would be like dropping med packs. Have it cost 3 res or something.
As is, to counter sc's first, build a second obs, and research mt with it while scaning with the other one when you need it.
You do realize scs counter mt, not the reverse? <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--> Scan, armor, and welders are how you kill sc first. <!--QuoteBegin-Nadagast+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Nadagast)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--><!--QuoteBegin-Necrosis+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Necrosis)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->2.0 was insane slanted towards aliens.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> No. You just don't know what you're talking about.... 2.01 was the most balanced build BY FAR. It was almost 50/50 at the end with marines having a slight 55/45 advantadge maybe. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> ... <!--QuoteBegin-Nem0+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Nem0)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Actually, there was quite a while in 2.0 where the aliens were significantly stronger.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin-Nadagast+Feb 1 2005, 12:52 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Nadagast @ Feb 1 2005, 12:52 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-heycheckitoutyo+Feb 1 2005, 04:24 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (heycheckitoutyo @ Feb 1 2005, 04:24 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> and b6 permanent cloaking will suck the fun out of pubs. honestly, just do away with cloaking. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> honestly please remove cloaking
it's not fun. AT ALL. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> I concur. I have disliked cloaking from the start. It's not fun for those killed with it. It's only useful for the skulk and gorge. It requires very little skill to use. If cloaking becomes commonplace most of the remaining fun will be sucked out of public play.
<!--QuoteBegin-Sky+Feb 1 2005, 01:36 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Sky @ Feb 1 2005, 01:36 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Nadagast+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Nadagast)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--><!--QuoteBegin-Necrosis+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Necrosis)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->2.0 was insane slanted towards aliens.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> No. You just don't know what you're talking about.... 2.01 was the most balanced build BY FAR. It was almost 50/50 at the end with marines having a slight 55/45 advantadge maybe. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> ... <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> what? It's true...
IIRC in fact it was (a tiny bit) Marine biased. Fades went down SO FAST. 2 shots and they were either dead or VERY low... Of course skulks were better then so it was a lil more fair.
Maybe on pubs where nobody knew where to aim on Fades to hit them or couldn't aim very well it was alien biased but when you had decent people playing it was amazingly well balanced...
Ya the low fade hp combined with bug hitboxes made it so only some of the better clanners could really land their shots but a solo shotgunner could take out a fade faster than it could take him a lot of the time in scrims.
<b>If Aliens work as a team, they <u>will</u> win. If Aliens don't work as a team, they <u>might</u> win. If Marines work as a team, they <u>might</u> win. If Marines don't work as a team, they <u>will</u> lose.</b>
This is especially true in Combat, and is the main reason I play CO very little.
What is Marine teamwork? Marines moving in groups, covering each other, welding each other, etc. If this doesn't happen, Marines will be picked off one after another, and they will lose. <b>Teamwork is essential for Marines to win.</b>
What is Alien teamwork? Aliens moving in groups, healing each other, webbing/stomping Marines, umbraing each other, sporing the Marines to take away their armour. If this doesn't happen, Aliens still might win because of individual skill, especially Lerk, Fade and Skulk. <b>Teamwork is <u>not required</u> for Aliens to win.</b>
This is the reason. NS is not a team game; at least not for the Aliens.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->When marines have got their **** together after the first onslaught, they will lock the map down which in turn generates a longer-than-average game which will (after the initial onslaught) be very frustrating to play as alien.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I just wanted to quote this because this happened with us last night vs. console. I dunno if they went sensory by accident or what, but sure enough we locked both hives with elec and turrets, slowly ground the map down by consolidating with elec, etc etc. We thought it was hilarious because we totally felt like we were pubbing, but I think they might have disagreed :o . At the end of the half the skulks attempted to eat their onos.
...
Hooray for NS livejournals.
Edit: that said, reflect and obs both <i>schooled</i> us with sensories last night.
<!--QuoteBegin-2 of Eight+Feb 1 2005, 03:13 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (2 of Eight @ Feb 1 2005, 03:13 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> My opinion: Marines are not overpowered.
<b>If Aliens work as a team, they <u>will</u> win. If Aliens don't work as a team, they <u>might</u> win. If Marines work as a team, they <u>might</u> win. If Marines don't work as a team, they <u>will</u> lose.</b>
IF YOU GET YOUR ALIENS TO WORK TOGETHER... YOU WILL WIN!!!
i cant tell you how devastating two chokepoitns with o chambers, 5 resnodes, a lerk at each chokepoint...two 4 minute fades and a 4 minute hive can be... in all honesty (assuming everyone uses thier starting res for productive ****)
Seriously, Ive seen it done time and time again....
I agree fully
The ONLY reason aliens lose l(arge games anyways) is because the whole perspective switches, now marines can rambo, **** around, and use no teamwork whatsoever, and win, while aliens require teamwork to take and HOLD nodes and hives, or they will never accomplish diddly due to NO RES FLOW...
Anyone disagrees with me.... come to the NSA Classic server,(this isnt advertising, just an invitation to prove my point) ill "Alien Comm" u to victory, if we get a team that is somewhat able to listen to me...
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> this "omgz fades are too powerfulz0rz" crap is nonexistent<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I say omgz fades are too powerfulz0rz
In most of italian, german server where i play, Aliens owns.
<!--QuoteBegin-Sky+Feb 1 2005, 01:36 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Sky @ Feb 1 2005, 01:36 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> You do realize scs counter mt, not the reverse? <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--> Scan, armor, and welders are how you kill sc first. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Running with the cloak upgrade in B6 will still reveal you to MT, and many skulks don't even think about this so you can see them on MT right up until they start walking at the door.
Comments
heres the life long problem
if aliens require tons of skill to dominate = most new players giving up on learning curve
if aliens require little skill to dominate = skilled aliens become NS gods and are unstoppable
so what we need to do is find a happy meduim, and convince new players to hang in there long enough to get the learning curve and enjoy the awesome game that NS is.
thats my thoughts on the matter
JAJAJAJAJAJAJAJAJAJAJAJAJAJA
Put mp_tournamentmode to some use.
and b6 permanent cloaking will suck the fun out of pubs. honestly, just do away with cloaking.
Could you elaborate some? <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
They are frustrating to play against as marine, since you basically have no chance of actually outskilling the skulk. You're dead by default.
When marines have got their **** together after the first onslaught, they will lock the map down which in turn generates a longer-than-average game which will (after the initial onslaught) be very frustrating to play as alien. This doesnt mean that playing marine will be less frustrating, since winning will be all up to the commander (ie commander drop obs, marines build, marines win), and every push you make you will continue to meet the unevitable default death by cloaked skulks.
Summary: Sensory chambers are evil, since they set up the round to be very boring and frustrating for both sides. Avoid sensory chambers.
hand grenades should come out of the armory if u hump it long enough (if, of course, the comm has ressearched hand grenades)
huh?
anyways moving on..
this would be cool: hand nades cost 15 res to tech from armory
if u tech it again it costs 20 and gives another hand nade (so now u have 2!)
then if u tech again its 25 or something and gives another one as well.
i think we should stop there to prevent nade spam from getting out of control no?
Who were you talking to who said this build was balanced? lol
2.01 was the best build. God damn that was so balanced for clanplay.
No. You just don't know what you're talking about.... 2.01 was the most balanced build BY FAR. It was almost 50/50 at the end with marines having a slight 55/45 advantadge maybe.
honestly please remove cloaking
it's not fun. AT ALL.
Well then at least in large pubs aliens will actually be getting kills..
As is, to counter sc's first, build a second obs, and research mt with it while scaning with the other one when you need it.
<!--QuoteBegin-Nadagast+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Nadagast)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--><!--QuoteBegin-Necrosis+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Necrosis)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->2.0 was insane slanted towards aliens.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
No. You just don't know what you're talking about.... 2.01 was the most balanced build BY FAR. It was almost 50/50 at the end with marines having a slight 55/45 advantadge maybe. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
...
<!--QuoteBegin-Nem0+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Nem0)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Actually, there was quite a while in 2.0 where the aliens were significantly stronger.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
honestly please remove cloaking
it's not fun. AT ALL. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
I concur. I have disliked cloaking from the start. It's not fun for those killed with it. It's only useful for the skulk and gorge. It requires very little skill to use. If cloaking becomes commonplace most of the remaining fun will be sucked out of public play.
No. You just don't know what you're talking about.... 2.01 was the most balanced build BY FAR. It was almost 50/50 at the end with marines having a slight 55/45 advantadge maybe. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
... <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
what? It's true...
IIRC in fact it was (a tiny bit) Marine biased. Fades went down SO FAST. 2 shots and they were either dead or VERY low... Of course skulks were better then so it was a lil more fair.
Maybe on pubs where nobody knew where to aim on Fades to hit them or couldn't aim very well it was alien biased but when you had decent people playing it was amazingly well balanced...
<b>If Aliens work as a team, they <u>will</u> win. If Aliens don't work as a team, they <u>might</u> win.
If Marines work as a team, they <u>might</u> win. If Marines don't work as a team, they <u>will</u> lose.</b>
This is especially true in Combat, and is the main reason I play CO very little.
What is Marine teamwork? Marines moving in groups, covering each other, welding each other, etc. If this doesn't happen, Marines will be picked off one after another, and they will lose. <b>Teamwork is essential for Marines to win.</b>
What is Alien teamwork? Aliens moving in groups, healing each other, webbing/stomping Marines, umbraing each other, sporing the Marines to take away their armour. If this doesn't happen, Aliens still might win because of individual skill, especially Lerk, Fade and Skulk. <b>Teamwork is <u>not required</u> for Aliens to win.</b>
This is the reason. NS is not a team game; at least not for the Aliens.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->When marines have got their **** together after the first onslaught, they will lock the map down which in turn generates a longer-than-average game which will (after the initial onslaught) be very frustrating to play as alien.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I just wanted to quote this because this happened with us last night vs. console. I dunno if they went sensory by accident or what, but sure enough we locked both hives with elec and turrets, slowly ground the map down by consolidating with elec, etc etc. We thought it was hilarious because we totally felt like we were pubbing, but I think they might have disagreed :o . At the end of the half the skulks attempted to eat their onos.
...
Hooray for NS livejournals.
Edit: that said, reflect and obs both <i>schooled</i> us with sensories last night.
<b>If Aliens work as a team, they <u>will</u> win. If Aliens don't work as a team, they <u>might</u> win.
If Marines work as a team, they <u>might</u> win. If Marines don't work as a team, they <u>will</u> lose.</b>
<!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Exactly
At least on a 12V12 Server
IF YOU GET YOUR ALIENS TO WORK TOGETHER... YOU WILL WIN!!!
i cant tell you how devastating two chokepoitns with o chambers, 5 resnodes, a lerk at each chokepoint...two 4 minute fades and a 4 minute hive can be... in all honesty
(assuming everyone uses thier starting res for productive ****)
Seriously, Ive seen it done time and time again....
I agree fully
The ONLY reason aliens lose l(arge games anyways) is because the whole perspective switches, now marines can rambo, **** around, and use no teamwork whatsoever, and win, while aliens require teamwork to take and HOLD nodes and hives, or they will never accomplish diddly due to NO RES FLOW...
Anyone disagrees with me.... come to the NSA Classic server,(this isnt advertising, just an invitation to prove my point) ill "Alien Comm" u to victory, if we get a team that is somewhat able to listen to me...
~Jason
especially if marines are idiots.
I say omgz fades are too powerfulz0rz
In most of italian, german server where i play, Aliens owns.
Running with the cloak upgrade in B6 will still reveal you to MT, and many skulks don't even think about this so you can see them on MT right up until they start walking at the door.